[Closed] Is this racist and if so, why?

Surely it's just playing on the fact that Winston was (or is perceived to have been) a popular name amongst a certain section of society.

If you think that's racist but DON'T think the Australian Philosopher sketch by Monty Python is, then you are being racist yourself no? Or at least discriminatory.

[u]TandemJeremy - Member
randeberryj - Member

Dianne Abbot............ why are we allowing blond haired blue eyed Finns to steal our jobs (they were nurses hired by the NHS).

Thats not what she said at all.[/u]

Well you win that argument TandemJeremy your counter statement/argument is overwhelming. Of course she didn’t say it she's black!

 

Australians aren't a 'race' as such, and haven't been subject to persecution, just ridicule. Unless you're referring to the indigenous folk, but I've never met one named 'Bruce'. Now, I don't know whether 'Paddy' is racist or not..

Surely it's just playing on the fact that Winston was (or is perceived to have been) a popular name amongst a certain section of society.

I see Billie Piper's kid is named Winston.

vinnyeh - Member
Australians aren't a 'race' as such, and haven't been subject to persecution, just ridicule. Unless you're referring to the indigenous folk, but I've never met one named 'Bruce'. Now, I don't know whether 'Paddy' is racist or not..

Surely it's just playing on the fact that Winston was (or is perceived to have been) a popular name amongst a certain section of society.

[u]Australians aren't a 'race' as such, and haven't been subject to persecution[/u] I think you will find that most of didn't volunteer to go, they were made to go. That of course was not persecution as they are white??
[u]just ridicule[/u] Isn't ridicule racisms or do you have be an "ethnic" for it to be racist?

[u]whether 'Paddy' is racist or not..[/u] Argh course not they are ethnics? We will ignore that Paddy is an actual name!

isn't everyone an ethnic?

really, what do you mean by 'being an ethnic'?

haven't been subject to persecution, just ridicule

What's the difference?

Charlie - its ignorance. I think he means someone from an ethnic minority background.

As for the finnish nurese quote from Abbott - you have totally misunderstood her point - which was (wrongly) that they would not be able to empathise with the black people in hospital - not that they were taking away jobs that should be done by black people.

haven't been subject to persecution, just ridicule
What's the difference?

Come on molgrips, you're Welsh (I think?), I'm a Kiwi. I'm sure we've both been on the receiving end- and probably of very similar jokes. Have you ever felt persecuted? 🙄

CharlieMungus - Member
isn't everyone an ethnic?

really, what do you mean by 'being an ethnic'?

but why can't white british people be ethernic?

TandemJeremy - Member
Charlie - its ignorance. I think he means someone from an ethnic minority background.

As for the finnish nurese quote from Abbott - you have totally misunderstood her point - which was (wrongly) that they would not be able to empathise with the black people in hospital - not that they were taking away jobs that should be done by black people.

[i]Its borderline IMO, you could take offence, but you'd have to work at it.

[/i]

Sadly these days there are actually loads of folk do do work at it. And work hard too!

As for the actual joke, it was mildly amusing and whether it was racist or not is of no importance.

The old 'Is this racism?' chestnut:
[img] [/img]
Guaranteed to get STW aerated.

[i]As for the finnish nurese quote from Abbott - you have totally misunderstood her point - which was (wrongly) that they would not be able to empathise with the black people in hospital - not that they were taking away jobs that should be done by black people.[/i]

I thought the point he was trying to make was the Dianne Abbot is racist, (which as she appears pretty dim, probably may be) and that it was somewhat insulting to imply that it was dangerous to talk about race near common people, it being too complicated for their simple working class brains.

Re "an ethnic" - I think you'll find that the act of deriving a noun from such an adjective and using it to refer to someone is inherently a deeply unpleasant thing to do, since you are literally defining them by a single characteristic. See also "a gay", "the blacks", etc. Generally these tend not to go down very well.

Black people from former UK colonies in the Caribbean named their children with traditional English names because they had no other cultural frame of reference. As slaves they were forbidden to use names of African origin usually on pain of death or at least a flogging. English was the language they were forced to learn and speak to survive.Coincidentally their surnames were that of their slave owners.
Not something I would want to "joke" about.

I think that the only people who would find such a joke racist/offensive are the people who have tried to modify the English language to remove other "offensive" phrases (man hole, blackboard, brain storm) in case they upset those in another social group. Utter twonks - I can almost guarantee that no black (or white) person would be offended by such a joke. However some PC nob end might be offended because they think they ought to be.

It interests me how people get on very high horses about sexism and racism and yet prejudice against the working class with references to chavs and neds seem completely acceptable. My life has been culturally enriched by moving around different classes and much more so than different ethnic groups who seem on average fairly impervious and ethnocentric.

Not racist IMHO, only in a world where humour has been overtaken by political correctness.

Well, I've learnt a new word tonight. [i]"Ethenic"[/i]. Like it.

Very funny so not racist to me.

[i]Black people from former UK colonies in the Caribbean named their children with traditional English names because they had no other cultural frame of reference. As slaves they were forbidden to use names of African origin usually on pain of death or at least a flogging. English was the language they were forced to learn and speak to survive.Coincidentally their surnames were that of their slave owners.
[/i]

That was nearly 200 years ago. Are you saying they still feel obliged to do so today?

[i]Not something I would want to "joke" about.
[/i]

I'm sure lots of other folk would though.

Not racist IMHO, only in a world where humour has been overtaken by political correctness.

Don't talk rubbish.

Are people still amusing each other? Of course.

Except now you can't make a career out of going 'indians, hur hur hur!' on stage, you actually have to be clever and witty. Progress, I think.

I think minorities in the past would have just shrugged it off, however now they realise they have a right not to be insulted and ridiculed all over the place. Again, progress.

See also "a gay"... Generally these tend not to go down very well.

maybe there are to many people that are desperate to be offended.

I could tell you why, but I'd rather wait for the stw moral bastion that is elfin.

Here I am! 🙂

Right, what d'you need to know?

haven't read all the thread but got to the bit about the cat called Winston and that reminded me of a friend's cat when we were at University in the late 80's.

He was called Nelson. Allegedly after the sailor but actually it was because the cat was black and wasn't allowed out.

I'm not sure if that's borderline racist, but I don't think so because it was a comment on a factual and political basis rather than specifically derogatory about a section of society.

I also still find it utterly brilliant.

If a Jim Davidson tells 'darky' jokes in a forest but no-one hears, do we all wish a tree falls on him anyway?

😆

One joke I always found funny was:

[i]"Why don't Asians play football?

Because every time they get a corner, they open a shop on it!"[/i]

My dad's Asian and owned a corner shop, and he never played football in his life.

Racist? No. Suggesting a racial stereotype? Probbly. Offensive? Depends on context dunnit? If said in an affectionate manner (and appreciative of Asian people's hard-working nature and ability to succeed in business), then no problem. Other than that, well, I can't be bothered really.

How many ****stanis can you fit in a Mini?

I defer to your expertise Bill 😉

I haven't really read this thread but the OP joke is not racist.

Not even vaguely imo.

The OP is racist though. No, I'm sorry; you should hear some of the things he's said to me when he's had a few. 😥

I'm waiting for the moral outrage as someone has referred to travellers in another thread as 'pikeys'. Or are you all going to show how hypocritical you are....

The OP is racist though.

Is he black ? Is that why he was having a pop at white people because they never name their children after the greatest prime minister the world has ever known ?

loddercik - its been done many times. People have been banned and flamed within an inch of their lives for being racist about travellers.

I'm waiting for the moral outrage as someone has referred to travellers in another thread as 'pikeys'.

That was me wasn't it ? TBH I didn't expect anyone to react. And since it's been a few days now, I think it's unlikely that anyone will.

Winston Churchill was a racist. And a sexist. Bit of an all round nasty piece of work, to be honest.

I'm sorry Ernie, but it's true. 🙁

He might have been a bit nicer than that German bloke with the little 'tache though.

[u]Elfinsafety - Member
Winston Churchill was a racist. And a sexist. Bit of an all round nasty piece of work, to be honest.

I'm sorry Ernie, but it's true.

He might have been a bit nicer than that German bloke with the little 'tache though. [/u]

Just a bit nicer? How many Jews would Hitler have to have killed before he would have been considered much nastier than Churchill? Wow you are one sicko (aka middle class Liberal).
Of course the old Vikings were not nasty at all because they were a product of there time??
Do you really think Churchill who saved every Jew in Britain was "an all round nasty piece of work" while standing up to a mass murderer. I have no doubt what people like you would do......come in Hitler, now you promise to be nice to the Jews, Yes! ok then come in. Of course the real reason people like you would have let Hitler in, is because you have a back bone like a bowl of jelly! You are the sort of person who looks down on the working class for fighting the war in Afghanistan. How long before you will be spitting in there faces?

Do you really think Churchill who saved every Jew in Britain was "an all round nasty piece of work" while standing up to a mass murderer

This is the same Churchill who was quite prepared to acquiesce in Soviet control of Eastern Europe in return for Anglo-American control of southern Europe, especially Italy and Greece?

The same Churchill who turned over several thousand Ukranians and other Eastern Europeans captured in German uniforms (after being forcibly conscripted) to the Soviets after the war. They were summarily executed after custody was transferred.

Yes, nicer than Hitler, obviously. But a long way from being any sort of a saint.

Yes! ok then come in. Of course the real reason people like you would have let Hitler in, is because you have a back bone like a bowl of jelly!

Are you saying that the German people were cowards? May I ask how old you are?

*pictures WCA chortling gently in a hotel bar*

I agree - it is absurd to place Churchill in the same league as Hitler ......you should be ashamed of yourself Elfinman 😐

Much fairer, would be to put Churchill in the same league as Saddam Hussein. Like Saddam, Churchill believed that gassing Iraqi Kurds to stop them causing trouble was perfectly acceptable. He justified doing so by saying, quote :

[i]"I am strongly in favour of using poisoned gas against uncivilised tribes"[/i]

Of course unlike Saddam Hussein he was never put on trial for gassing Iraqi Kurds. Lucky him.

Asian people's hard-working nature and ability to succeed in business

Another stereotype and generalisation?

Go to Hoxton Square on a Saturday night and tell it to the guys on the corner.

You'll soon find out if its racist or not.

Go to Hoxton Square on a Saturday night and tell it to the guys on the corner.

You'll soon find out if its racist or not.

This might be a test for racist content, would you repeat the same line to one of them funny foreign fellas if you didn't know them?

May I ask how old you are?

He's 54, or at least claims to be on another thread.

Then again, it [i]could[/i] be an IQ score .........

ernie_lynch - Member
I agree - it is absurd to place Churchill in the same league as Hitler ......you should be ashamed of yourself Elfinman

Much fairer, would be to put Churchill in the same league as Saddam Hussein. Like Saddam, Churchill believed that gassing Iraqi Kurds to stop them causing trouble was perfectly acceptable. He justified doing so by saying, quote :

"I am strongly in favour of using poisoned gas against uncivilised tribes"

Of course unlike Saddam Hussein he was never put on trial for gassing Iraqi Kurds. Lucky him.

Gasing the enemy troops (Iraqi Kurds) like both sides did to each other in WW1

Yeah, you're probably right brandeberry ........all this [i]"Oh look, he gassed the Iraqi Kurds"[/i] is a lot of fuss over nothing I reckon.

We were fighting an enemy weren't we ? If it it had been left to nob heads like Elfinman, they probably would have let the Iraqi Kurds in. And he would all be living under Iraqi Kurd occupation 😐

Gawd bless Winston Churchill I say.

CharlieMungus - Member

Asian people's hard-working nature and ability to succeed in business

Another stereotype and generalization?

Asian people's hard-working nature and ability to succeed in business

the Liberal middle class (Elfinman, ernie_lynch)

Cool.....I'm liberal and middle-class now 8)

ernie_lynch - Member
If it it had been left to nob heads like Elfinman, they probably would have let the Iraqi Kurds in. And he would all be living under Iraqi Kurd occupation

[u]Gawd[/u] bless Winston Churchill I say.

or if you had your way manslaughter

Well there's no "pulling the wool over your eyes" mate .........yes I have to confess, I do like a bit of manslaughter.

Nothing like a good sniger at the working class......from behind your computer screen, brave brave man

Well I had no idea that Winston Churchill was working class. You see it's learning stuff like that,
that keeps me coming back to STW.

BTW, I'm in front of my computer screen .........what would I be doing behind it ? 😕

Nothing like a good sniger at the working class......from behind your computer screen, brave brave man

Apart from the appalling racism in your earlier posts, two other points:

1 What does 'sniger' mean?

2 Surely he'd be in front on his computer screen, not behind it? If he was sitting behind it he'd not see your response, and thus his ability to 'sniger' would be rather limited.

What's wrong with manslaughter or womanslaughter, in fact any kind of laughter, surely that's what we need more of. Imagine for instance if the gassing of the Kurds was done with laughing gas, would the world be in a better place by now?

Well I had no idea that Winston Churchill was working class. You see it's learning stuff like that,
that keeps me coming back to STW.

[u]Gawd[/u]

BTW, I'm in front of my computer screen .........what would I be doing behind it ?

He's got a point about "Gawd" I distinctly remember it being used by Dick Van Dyke in Mary Poppins. Doesn't get much more working class than a Chimney Sweep.

Ernie - welcome to the world of the liberal middle classes. Would you like some white whine?

Since when was the phrase

[u]Gawd[/u]

Anything other than working class

LOL ! 😀

Oh I see. Well I only found out a few minutes ago that I was middle class, so I guess I hadn't quite got round to not talking like a Sarf Landan building worker any more.......but I'll work on it - now that I know I is posh.

You see ernie - you have to obey the rules now. After all you do own the means of production in that you have your tools - whereas I only have my labour to sell. So I can and do use Gawd

nickf - Member
Apart from the appalling racism in your earlier posts, two other points:

1 What does 'sniger' mean?

2 Surely he'd be in front on his computer screen, not behind it? If he was sitting behind it he'd not see your response, and thus his ability to 'sniger' would be rather limited.

Another stereotype and generalisation?

Yes indeed, but a positive one, I think you'll agree. And one which all the Asian people I know (including Bangladeshi, Indian, ****stani, Vietnamese etc) are quite happy to be labelled with. I refer to the kind of work ethic and determination shown by people who have come to Britain with very very little, and often managed to succeed in spite of the many difficulties they have faced. Many Asian people I've known have worked 12+ hour days, 6 or even 7 days a week, to provide for their families and build up businesses, put their children through education, buy their own homes, etc etc etc.

the Liberal middle class (Elfinman, ernie_lynch

Yay! I'm Middle Class! Woohoo! 😀

I say Ernest old chap; would you care to join me for a glass of champagne, as is typical, [i]even expected[/i], of people of our Social Standing?

[img] [/img]

(Runs off to engage in highbrow intellectual discussion on the Modern Art thread)

Well I only found out a few minutes ago that I was middle class, so I guess I hadn't quite got round to not talking like a Sarf Landan building worker any more.......but I'll work on it - now that I know I is posh.

Cor blimey guv'nor = I say, my good fellow

Now, where's Flashy got to? Need to organise things for this summer's Henley regatta...

Elfinsafety - Member

Another stereotype and generalisation?

Yes indeed, but a positive one, I think you'll agree. And one which all the Asian people I know (including Bangladeshi, Indian, ****stani, Vietnamese etc) are quite happy to be labelled with. I refer to the kind of work ethic and determination shown by people who have come to Britain with very very little,

(including Bangladeshi, Indian, ****stani, Vietnamese etc)

and often managed to succeed in spite of the many difficulties they have faced.

Many Asian people I've known have worked 12+ hour days, 6 or even 7 days a week, to put their children through education,

Not when you get to big school it's not

Elfinsafety - Member

Another stereotype and generalisation?
Yes indeed, but a positive one, I think you'll agree. And one which all the Asian people I know (including Bangladeshi, Indian, ****stani, Vietnamese etc) are quite happy to be labelled with

Yes I think I will nip to ****stan and start up a bussiness there and practise my religion and they would come into my shop just like white people do in the UK and let me practise my religion just like we do in the UK?

What religion are you ?

It must be awful leaving behind child labour, disease & poverty to work 12hr days.

Whos turn is it with the shovel now?

STR; I think most folk would agree that working such long hours is considerably preferable to the conditions suffered by millions in their home countries. Most of them consider themselves incredibly lucky that they have been able to have such opportunities, and are more than happy to send money back to help people who have so little.

Can anyone please explain what the hell brandyberryj is wibbling on about?

black men are called winston"

or Chicken George