[Closed] Is this racist and if so, why?

Yes.

I could tell you why, but I'd rather wait for the stw moral bastion that is elfin.

Pretty borderline. It uses a stereotype - "black men are called winston" and its implied that that means white men can no longer use Winston as a name as it has lost its value.

Not worth getting hot under the collar about tho

I think even Elfin can see that it is partly mocking the educational standards today and partly mocking the habit of the lower socio-economic groups to latch onto particular names or brands in a way that the higher echelons of society don't. Hence it is mocking the social injustices of the British society.

Or is that just my interpretation?

EDIT - TJ immediately assumes that if someone isn't white they are black* - does that make him racist or just a lazy thinker? 😉

*I was brought up to think the opposite of white is yolk.

It's about a racist as my son's Bindi-gate incident.

No,

Loose stereotyping, an observation based on race, but as it's neither derogatory nor inferring superiority for any race I wouldn't call it racist.

Were traditional white names such as Winston not adopted by the immigrating Afro-Caribbean community as a means of ingratiating themselves with the locals?

I think we have to distinguish between accepting differences and negative racial stereotyping. The fact that Winston has been perceived as adopted as a name by some ethnic groups is neither positive or negative so I am inclined to agree that it is not racist.

Its borderline IMO, you could take offence, but you'd have to work at it.

And i'd argue that the posho's are just as likely to latch on to certain names and brands, just different ones.

It uses a stereotype - "black men are called winston" and its implied that that means white men can no longer use Winston as a name as it has lost its value.

Former: agreed it's a stereotype but as it's nt necesarily negative then it's not necessarily racist.

Latter: I think you've inferred that...to me it's not necessarily implied in the joke....RACIST! 😀

It uses a stereotype - "black men are called winston"

That's not really what it's saying though is it, the stereotype here is more "people called Winston are black."

I don't really hold with the Daily Mail attitude that you're automatically being x-ist as soon as you point out any difference between two demographics. I don't really think we need to be reaching for the pitchforks for a joke that hinges on someone in history having an unusual name. Is it any different to saying "Why was Bruce Lee famous? Because he was the last non-Australian to be called Bruce"?

Incidentally, racist or not, I'm struggling to think of a famous white Winston other than Churchill, so it's not wholly outrageous. The only other Winstons that leap to mind are Zedemore in Ghostbusters and a Lenny Henry character.

[i] but you'd have to work at it.[/i]

Ah, so on STW it will definitely be racist!

It's a joke way past it's stereotypical sell by date - I've never met a black man called Winston, the only Winstons that spring to my mind are Churchill, Smith and my old schoolfriend Becky's cat.

Which was a big fat tabby BTW...

What about Winston Cadogo?

you could take offence, but you'd have to work at it.

It's the sort of throwaway nonsense that people get outraged by on behalf of someone else. If anyone -were- to take offence, I'd say they were almost certainly white(*); I doubt very much that a black person, even one caled Winston, would find that offensive (and if they did I'd suggest they M/WTFU).

(* - ooh, meta-racism)

Whilst on the subject, anyone know the history of the name Delroy?
Historically seemed to be a popular black name, but I was wondering where it originated?

and partly mocking the habit of the lower socio-economic groups to latch onto particular names or brands in a way that the higher echelons of society don't

Oh yes they do.

Racist? Marginal IMO. It's stereotyping based on race though not inherently negative.

and my old schoolfriend Becky's cat.

Which was a big fat tabby BTW...

Was it black?

my old schoolfriend Becky's cat.

Which was a big fat tabby BTW...

Ah, but was it a black tabby?

What about Winston Cadogo?

Who?

*high-fives tree-magnet*

Not worth getting hot under the collar about tho

Not worth you getting hot under the collar about, or not worth anyone else getting hot under the collar about? Who should not be getting hot under the collar?

Whilst on the subject, anyone know the history of the name Delroy?
Historically seemed to be a popular black name, but I was wondering where it originated?

Google says it's French.

What about Winston Cadogo?
Who?

You Winston, you loose some.

[quote=TSY]ingratiating
did you mean that or did you mean integrating?

What about Winston Cadogo?

Who?

Winston Cadogo (sp) was a character from a sketch on Not the Nine o'clock News which involved an overly racist Policeman called Constable Savage.

on a different note. one of my black work mates met one of my black friends and when my mate introduced himself as leroy my work mate laughed and said couldnt your parents think of a name so just gave you a black name

now is that racist ? 😉

Charlie - either, or... your point?

It's contextual.
It's ok on here, or in a round of jokes at a dinner party, because we all understand that there's nothing malicious meant by it, but if it was said in the pub, then it could be easily overheard by a workman having a beer, and it might reinforce any racial stereotypes or prejudices he held.

and partly mocking the habit of the lower socio-economic groups to latch onto particular names or brands in a [s]way that[/s] [u]different way to[/u] the higher echelons of society[s] don't[/s]

That's more like it, Tarquin.

Isn't that Dr on TV who does all the genetics and children programs called Winston?

Not sure but trying to think of other Winstons

[i] it could be easily overheard by a workman having a beer, and it might reinforce any racial stereotypes or prejudices he held.[/i]

Er, so, cos [i]he's[/i] racist, then the joke is?

That's Robert Winston you're thinking of.

Er, so, cos he's racist, then the joke is?

Keep up at the back. This is exactly why Sacha Baron Cohen hates Jews.

Charlie - either, or... your point?

My point? I wasn't making a point. I was asking a question.

I'm lost

One of our cats is called Winston.

He's black.

Maybe as an acid test I need to show him a cigar and a car. If he smokes the cigar I'm not racist, and if he steals the car I am.

😉

Okay Charlie... what was the point behind your question? 🙄

lols at Bez

well you would be desmond 😉 (see what i did there)

Actually I can't be bothered.

what was the point behind your question?

WTF? Why the Spanish inquisition? The point behind my question was to find out if you meant that folks were adopting traditional white names as a means of integration or ingratiation. That's all, You've said "either, or" and that doesn't clear things up for me, but to be honest I'm not that bothered any more.

Maybe as an acid test I need to show him a cigar and a car. If he smokes the cigar I'm not racist, and if he steals the car I am.

If he does both, then you must be in South London

[i]well you would be desmond (see what i did there)[/i]

Yes, you made a borderline racist joke. I worked hard to realise that.

there was a black woman on the tv yesterday, stating how because she gets racial and sexual discrimination she is the most oppressed of......

ive got no idea what the silly cow was going on about, i switched it over, thats not what i pay my license fee to hear.

In itself not really racist, but if part of a pattern of similar jokes then it would be.

or was it

MSP - Member
In itself not really racist, but if part of a pattern of similar jokes then it would be.

So if you tell some jokes that are "not really racist", then you're racist?

Is this the same as when I was a kid and my Mum said if I kept eating ice cream I'd turn into one?

and, tree, what happened?

i though winston was a dog name... D'ooo

tree-magnet - Member

MSP - Member
In itself not really racist, but if part of a pattern of similar jokes then it would be.

So if you tell some jokes that are "not really racist", then you're racist?

Is this the same as when I was a kid and my Mum said if I kept eating ice cream I'd turn into one?

If you tell a series of jokes that highlight one sector of society as the butt of the joke then yes you are racist.

Are you racist?

I think MSP's point is that there's a spectrum of what I will call "near racism", between "not racist" and "definitely racist", ranging from:

telling the odd joke like that above, particularly in private, to folk that know you etc....to telling lots of them, or linking to lots of Daily Mail artivles on muslims etc on say a public forum.

There are shades of grey in between the black and white (see what I did there? 😀 )

i though winston was a dog name... D'ooo

Caninist.

[i]Caninist.[/i]

That's rich coming from a Cougar!

vinnyeh - Member
It's contextual.
It's ok on here, or in a round of jokes at a dinner party, because we all understand that there's nothing malicious meant by it, but if it was said in the pub, then it could be easily overheard by a workman having a beer, and it might reinforce any racial stereotypes or prejudices he held.

What the hell are you talking about? Its alright for you middle class Liberal tosser to say it

vinnyeh - Member
because we all understand that there's nothing malicious meant by it

vinnyeh - Member
it could be easily overheard by a workman having a beer, and it might reinforce any racial stereotypes or prejudices he held.

It's not very sophisticated, but I wouldn't call it racist.

It draws on the fact that some of the more traditional names that have long since fallen out of favour in Britain, have maintained their popularity in the Caribbean and amongst the Caribbean diaspora.

A fair proportion of those black Winstons will be named for Winston Churchill.

Ray Winston

Glad I could contribute to this thread 😆

If you tell a series of jokes that highlight one sector of society as the butt of the joke then yes you are racist.

But if I tell one, it's ok?

Are you racist?

Didn't used to be, but tbh I can't be arsed riding round fields these days, so I don't enter races anymore.

Not read all the posts, but doesn't the way you say it determine whether its a 'black' or 'white name':

Win-stun = white

winSTON = black

😉 😉 😉 (just so you know I'm joking in a non-racist way) 😉 😉

My sister's dog's called Winston. It's a white lab. Not sure if it helps the conversation, but there you go.

headfirst - Member
Not read all the posts, but doesn't the way you say it determine whether its a 'black' or 'white name':

Win-stun = white

winSTON = black

😉 😉 ;)(just so you know I'm joking in a non-racist way) 😉 😉

Tell another 4 like that and you are though!!

My sister's dog's called Winston. It's a white lab. Not sure if it helps the conversation, but there you go.

See I was right

Why the Spanish inquisition?

Racist.

Mogrim! My sister (who is not racist) also has a White lab named Winston (which for a dog is not racist). Are we infact brothers? IIRC she lives near Philconsequences mum (not to my knowledge racist) near Martin Clunes (non racist at time of writing).

My friend has a Black step dad named Winston (he's not racist, but once in banter used the N-word once to his casusly racist brother, so could possibly be racist after all)

I had a cat called Winston but he was ginger

I used to have a dog that was a misogynist, where does he fit into all this? His name was Harry btw.

[i]So if you tell some jokes that are "not really racist", then you're racist?
Is this the same as when I was a kid and my Mum said if I kept eating ice cream I'd turn into one?[/i]

Too much ice cream makes you a racist?

I eat loads of vanilla ice cream and that hasn't affected me whatsoever. I bet it's just chocolate ice cream that does it. Maybe coffee.

If a tree falls over but nobody is around to hear it, is it still a racist?

Why the Spanish inquisition?
Racist.

Porque?

Porque?

I was being ironic; but it seemed to be about right for the general level of the conversation. I/somebody could just as easily have pulled you up on it, it would seem.

I was being ironic

indeed, and I was being Spanish and inquiring or should that be inquisitory

casusly racist

Does that mean being racist in the style of Muhammad Ali?

😯

If a Jim Davidson tells 'darky' jokes in a forest but no-one hears, do we all wish a tree falls on him anyway?

Sacked a person once for calling his boss Winston. Even his union rep knew it was the right thing. Strange how a simple name that is so harmless can used as a weapon.

erm... what was his boss's name?

Desmond?

Shall we all laugh a the racist name joke? That where we came in..

[u]cvinnyeh - Member
It's contextual.
It's ok on here, or in a round of jokes at a dinner party, because we all understand that there's nothing malicious meant by it, but if it was said in the pub, then it could be easily overheard by a workman having a beer, and it might reinforce any racial stereotypes or prejudices he held.[/u]

Dianne Abbot said "Black Mothers are better at looking after there children than white mothers" and "why are we allowing blond haired blue eyed Finns to steal our jobs" (they were nurses hired by the NHS). I have no idea wherever she was talking about black nurses jobs or English jobs in general. But I have no doubt that [u]cvinnyeh - Membercvinnyeh - Member[/u] and his dinner party friends whould have no problem with this as you have to be white and working class to be racist. I am trying to think of word that best describes cvinnyeh and his "dinner party friends" Oh I know SNOB. By the way a wine bar is not a pub.

randeberryj - Member

Dianne Abbot............ why are we allowing blond haired blue eyed Finns to steal our jobs (they were nurses hired by the NHS).

Thats not what she said at all.