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My daughter has just finished her MSc and her house tenancy period has come to an end. They all spent several days cleaning the house, which was fairly clean anyway, and 'Door Younger' has just had a long phonecall with the agent. She is being told that they are going to be charged for things such as the following:
A few weeds in the backyard (£20!)
Dust on the skirting boards in the hallway (ffs)
Landing needs repainting.
The shower room walls went mouldy as there's no window and the extract fan is crap (£90 to clean or repaint)
Bedroom walls need repainting because she had a scented candle that caused 'soot' damage (£260)
The list goes on and gets frankly quite ridiculous. Are her and her housemates just being taken advantage of as they're students who don't know the laws? Does anybody here have any knowledge of tenancy laws, Tenant Fees Act etc.
I understand that repairs are chargeable, and some of what they're being charged falls into this category, however is there not a reasonable wear and tear aspect that would mitigate them against cleaning and decorating (and de-weeding!) charges?
If this makes a difference this is in England (Nottingham) and not Scotland, where the laws may differ.
What say you?
Challenge through the deposit scheme
https://www.gov.uk/tenancy-deposit-protection
https://www.thedisputeservice.co.uk/student-tips-is-it-a-holding-deposit-or-tenancy-deposit/
Assuming the deposit scheme applies to student accommodation.
Yes they are.
A good place for examples like this is on LegalAdviceUK on Reddit. Loads and loads of similar cases and very good FAQ and advice.
Anyone with agent in their job title is a crook.
The deposit should be held in a holding scheme, if not they're breaking the law. The landlord would need to prove negligence in order to withhold it.
Frankly I'd take a massive poo in the sink and leave.
Follow advice from oldtennisshoes and Rich_s ^^^
Ask daughter for sight of tenancy agreement and carefully review that with specific reference to wear and tear and repairs.
Shower room may not have been fit for purpose with an inadequate extractor fan.
Letting agent definitely trying to take advantage of students - push back forcefully.
Yes, they are taking the Michael.
Has your daughter taken lots of photos of the state of everything when they left?
Fussy bassas!
The deposit should be held in a holding scheme, if not they’re breaking the law.
there are 2 kinds of holding scheme, 1)the deposit is with the scheme or 2) the deposit is not, but the landlord has a ticket to show he has it. One may be easier to reclaim than the other
i hope she has photos of everything from when she moved in.
I got charged for a new mattress and carpet despite it being like that when i moved in. The tribunal didnt see it my way either,i had to pay half in the end
The next landlord tried to get me to pay for a new utility room worktop, and fit it myself, with all the plumbing etc., despite the fact i had photos to show damage was there when i moved in, and all it needed was a little strip of formica gluing to the side,and it wasnt me, and so he couldnt prove it.
All this despite the council assessed that it was 'not suitable for habitation' when we moved in. I dont see how he got away with it without bribing the council and the tribunal.
He saw it as a landlord's duty to charge the tenants with anything he might be able to get away with
My daughter had similar, she dug her heels in and successfully challenged. Landlords well and truly take the proverbial
Yes.
specific reference to wear and tear and repairs.
...that sort of stuff doesn't matter. The contract can say whatever it wants, but it can't override statute. Wear and Tear is absolutely the landlord's problem. Damage is more likely the tenant's thing to fix. The only one out of the list that *might* be relevant is the candle, but they can't charge you a full redecoration fee. Go to Reddit and repost it on there.
I went to notts uni. There's at least one landlord who on a yearly basis picks a number of his 60 odd properties to absolutely rinse the deposit out of, normally to cynically pay for much needed renovation. He's well known to student services and yet is somehow still gold accredited with Unipol (because the only requirement to be gold is to have been accredited with them for X years). He tricked my housemate into giving him the deposit code and withdrew the lot. We got it all back luckily with some letters drawn up by a parent in the know.
Anyway tldr, Nottingham has some shitty landlords, do not accept any reductions. One easy way you can get the whole lot back is if they didn't do a correct inventory on move in. The deposit schemes have good resolution services that will mostly side with the tenants as there's most likely something incorrect in the landlords process, so if they refuse to budge just say you want to use the resolution service and have them sort it
Just make an offer of 100 GBP, then go to deposit adjudicator. Landlord here, tenants took on immac flat, never lifted a finger in 12 months, inventory came back saying tenant responsibility. Cost me c 2k to put right, adjudicator awarded me c 300.
Tbf if extractor vent was not powerful enough they should have got it fixed. If they tried, just show evidence.
I don't suppose I can bookmark for 11 months time - as I've just got back from my daughters new house in Leamington. I wasn't up there to interfere, but she had a minor shunt in her car yesterday and so i took the day off to take the train up, sort out some get me home repairs and then drive back with her (just in case)
And then as it happens the landlord asked to call by as there were a couple of things my daughter and her housemate pointed out on takeover that they wanted fixed. So I was there at the time and as I'd sorted the car by then, I'd taken the opportunity to do some weed clearance in the garden. And he seemed really grateful, he'll come back another day to finish off where I've laid weedkiller and take the waste away, apologised he hasn't had chance to sort it all out in advance and so on.
And then went back in the house where my daughter has decorated and reminded her that the tenancy agreement says she can't stick things that'll mark the wall. They'd taken loads of photos and video on arrival and showed it to him, demonstrating that the wall was already covered in marks and command hooks and missing plaster where something's been.... and his answer was that yes, there were some marks but he doesn't want any more.
FFS - if it needs redecorating because of previous tenants' marks, you don't get a bigger job because of some more. But - he's correct in what the tenancy says. So are we on the back foot already for seeing the deposit again? Just being prepared......
My understanding is that the money's in a deposit protection scheme so at least if disputing you haven't actually lost it yet - but are the schemes reasonable?
Landlords can only charge for what is reasonable in the term of the tenancy, so they can't for example charge the full price of a brand new carpet that's 20 years old. So that would apply with the walls too - can't charge the full redecoration fee especially if it needed doing anyway
Yep, wear and tear on carpets, wallpaper, paint, etc are all captured within the deposit scheme, so challenge each charge, weeds are a joke and will be thrown out, as upkeep isn't the renters problem, the landlord will also have to prove that things like 'soot' damage have the associated cost, i.e. it's not an old paint job so fair wear and tear for the age.
Sadly landlords and agencies see that deposit as their money to spruce up before reletting, hence why the scheme was brought in due to the rip offs people had to put up with.
<span style="color: #000000; font-family: Roboto, 'Helvetica Neue', Arial, 'Noto Sans', sans-serif, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, 'Segoe UI', 'Apple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI Emoji', 'Segoe UI Symbol', 'Noto Color Emoji'; background-color: #eeeeee;">"The deposit should be held in a holding scheme, if not they’re breaking the law."</span>
And the penalties are swingeing! check the deposit is in the DPS.
I vacated my place last year and the landlord wanted to withhold just over £1000. I appealed and had that reduced to £60...
landlords and agencies see that deposit as their money to spruce up before reletting
Yeh, bit pissed off with that TBH. They have agreed to a 12mo let but then only have it for 11mo, which was explained as the landlord using the time for cleaning and refurbs as needed.
So when they moved into a respectably clean but not showhome, no redecoration, still with blutack marks and command hooks etc from the previous tenants, garden full of weeds, and so on, made me wonder how they've used that month. Other than charging 12/11ths.
OTOH, it gave them chance to do a walk around video with loads to identify as 'faulty' hence why I don't think withholding deposit for eg: redecoration should wash even if they have added to the marks. 'Cos it needed doing anyway. If they'd moved into pristine and then left marks, then I see a case for charging to return it to as it was on day of takeover.
Tbf if extractor vent was not powerful enough they should have got it fixed. If they tried, just show evidence.
As a past tenant, landlord and now holiday let owner and operator.....**** right off with that bollox!
You are suggesting you'd want a tenant to buy the property you own a better extractor fan than you fitted and either break their contract and DIY the electricals or pay for an electrician...to sort out a deficient device you the landlord provided. In fact, **** right off again - sounds like you are one of 'them'.
The deposit scheme would expect landlord to provide evidence of condition of property at start of tenancy, and that report needs to have been signed by the tenants to be valid. Landlord will have to provide evidence of state at end of tenancy , and tenants can submit evidence as well.
Unless the evidence of damage is clear the deposit scheme is likely to reject the landlords request to retain the damage amounts and refund deposit to tenants.
The landlord has a legal obligation to inform the tenants of the name of the deposit scheme at the start of the tenancy. The deposit scheme will have standard procedure for appealing against the deposit retention amounts,
But in 1st instance write to Agent stating which damage and costs are contested.
Is this landlord/letting agent conning ...?
The correct approach to answering this question is to assume they are and try to disprove that.
Just make an offer of 100 GBP
No, **** that, tell them to sod off.
then go to deposit adjudicator. Landlord here,
Aha.
@convert I think you’ve misunderstood.
Tbf if extractor vent was not powerful enough they should have got it fixed. If they tried, just show evidence.
I read this as @poolman was suggesting that they should have asked the landlord to get it fixed.
OK, fair enough - I withdraw my hate filled bile!
I read this as @poolman was suggesting that they should have asked the landlord to get it fixed.
Related:
A friend of mine rented a house in Manchester and the cellar filled up with water for some reason. They thought it was a laugh and only told the landlord when someone fell in there at a party and they realised it was a bit dangerous 😀 .
When I was a student we had an end of uni BBQ. Unfortunately it rained, so we brought the BBQ (charcoal, not gas) inside and finished cooking in the living room. We still got our deposits back in full a few weeks later. Vince the landlord = total legend. He used to bring crates of beer round a few times a year as well.
When I was a student we had an end of uni BBQ. Unfortunately it rained, so we brought the BBQ (charcoal, not gas) inside and finished cooking in the living room.
Lucky to be alive too.
Sadly landlords and agencies see that deposit as their money to
sprucepiss up the wall before reletting exactly as it was before
Ftfy
You can go to abortration. You are allowed fair ware and tair. The only ones from Your list that I would consider not to be are the candle soot and maybe the mould depending on the details.
Ffs standards people! I would advise that you find out where the landlord lives, bum his lawn and hammer frozen sausages in to his dog. If he doesn’t have a dog, borrow one. In fact do that anyway as it will freak him out more.
Ripping off students deposits has been going on for decades. When i was at Uni, one of my friends after having a bad experience like the OPs, decided to have 'flat wrecking parties' at the end of the year to make sure he got his monies worth.
I had similar experiences when leaving rented properties in Cardiff, last time I rented was 2019. It wasn't until I moved out of my final shared house that I had the know-how to challenge the gouging. Challenge it via the Deposit Protection Scheme, they will appoint an adjudicator who will look at the evidence. I uploaded loads of photos of the property from the day we moved in and out, the email/text exchanges that showed the issues we'd had during the tenancy etc. We got all of the deposit back and the adjudicator also pointed out a myriad of malpractice things that landlord was doing/had done to the property. Recommending we report it on to the "authorities", unfortunately Cardiff Council couldn't give a toss.
Most of what you're describing sounds like fair wear and tear; if not, it sounds like the fixtures and fittings were not fit for purpose (shower room).
Lucky to be alive too.
TBH, the draughts in my first Uni digs were so epic i'd have been absolutely fine, i swear it had a total loss heating system.
A friend of mine rented a house in Manchester and the cellar filled up with water for some reason. They thought it was a laugh and only told the landlord when someone fell in there at a party and they realised it was a bit dangerous 😀 .
Same! They put all their moving boxes/suitcases and a couple of bikes in the cellar (which had a proper floor/walls in). First time it rained the whole basement ended up with 18" of water in there. The (new) landlord hadn't understood how to tank a room, so he'd just put boards down and plaster boarded the walls... So much for their plans to get a sofa/tv down there for "epic parties".
When i was at Uni, one of my friends after having a bad experience like the OPs, decided to have ‘flat wrecking parties’ at the end of the year to make sure he got his monies worth.
Saw one place that was so badly damaged that they ended up having to pretty much rebuild. Actually managed to do structural damage to the building.
Thanks so far, all. A quick convo with my daughter last night reveals that another of the issues that the letting agent has cited is 'cobwebs' in the corners of the rooms. For which they are being charged a cleaning fee to remove! Interestingly she's still friends with some of the students up there through the dance society, and one of them was at the same house last night for 'pre's' as it's obviously been rented out again this year. She took a photo of the back yard and it has still got the weeds, so the landlord has obviously not done the work that they are purporting to have done.
We're going to push back robustly.
Sorry for misunderstanding, I meant if the extractor wasn't doing it's job they should report to landlord and get it fixed. Mine did, simple upgrade. A decent 'll wants to keep his property in decent condition.
Rest of the issues, the weeds for 20 quid, it's a bit mean.
they should report to landlord and get it fixed
They did and it was replaced, but was woefully inefficient. They were told to squeegee the shower glass and mirrors after showering, which they did, but it's the walls that went mouldy (black spots everywhere). They'd leave the door wide open when not in use to allow it to dry too. I don't really see what else they could do, short of towelling down the walls each day.
Just reject the claim, via the DPS. Don't even bother talking to the letting agents or landlord directly. I went via DPS when I did, ignore the LA/LL. Someone who lived in the shared house will have had an email or something with a DPS number/account. I cant remember exactly how it worked for me.
If it's not in a DPS then the landlord will have to pay out 3x the deposit value or something like that, but they'll have to report the landlord to the DPS.
I remember it being an absolute ball-ache as most of my housemates DGAF as mummy and daddy paid their rent and deposits, leaving me to do all the heavy lifting. Should be a good life-affirming process for her to undertake.
It is a complete scam and fairly common unfortunately
Too true!
Happened to me upon leaving the temp accommodation I was in following marriage split. We spent ages cleaning the place, only for them to try to hold on to the deposit for a mouldy shower cubicle etc. I went nuts on em and got my deposit back. The one thing they didn't notice was I'd completely changed the fireplace for one off ebay that didn't fit and was propped up on tin cans to hide the hole in the wall behind it. Ha, ****ers. (I burnt the old one with a candle)
From both sides of the fence:
Some landlords are money grabbing chancers with no concept of wear and tare. They expect to be able to re-let the flat in basically freshly renovated condition without lifting a finger or spending a penny regardless of how many people or how long it's been occupied for.
Some tenants are ****holes. The OH let her flat for a few years when we moved into together and one particular tenant was particularly bad, asked for new carpets when they moved in (fair enough they looked a bit tired and flattened, but not worn out). Then we had to replace them when they moved out as they absolutely definitely didn't have a cat that shredded every carpet and curtain. the adjudicator's opinion was basically that because the lease said no pets, and because they dais they had no pets, then it couldn't have been pets (even though there was a cat and a rabbit when I went round to fix a leaking tap). They also turned the whole place damp enough to peel the wallpaper off (which the kids then picked at or ripped off completely) and turned paint moldy. Deposit scheme said it was wear and tare. And to top it off because we had to turn it round quickly and therefore did it ourselves the few things they did let us claim for we could only get materials not time as you can't bill for your own time.
Basically, forget any right/wrongs. Just escalate it to the deposit scheme, they'll resolve it in your daughters favour.
It's an absolute pisstake and you're right to push back.
I went on snagging duty (because I'm an idiot) after my ex moved out of her rental property. Amongst the agent's complaints were:
The bathroom wasn't clean. I'd hired a professional cleaner to do the bathroom so I knew this was a nonsense, turned out that their complaint was over a hair in the sink after she'd brushed her hair the morning she moved out.
There was tape on the window frame. Which she'd stuck there to keep it closed as it was broken and they'd failed to fix it despite repeated reports.
Something about marks on the ceiling above the stairwell. Think about that for a moment, WTF are we supposed to do about that when it's literally two stories high? I asked about their liability insurance in the event of me falling like fifteen feet, they kindly said I could leave it alone.
The fridge wasn't emptied. Fair to a point, there was a tub of ice cream in the ice compartment. The letting agent had inspected it, gone "yup" and then left it there.
The oven needed cleaning. Again, fair, it did, but it was a damn sight cleaner than it was when she moved in.
Marks on the door - she'd bumped her arm and spilled coffee. Literally five seconds of a job with a damp paper towel to wipe down.
A large pile of shite abandoned on the communal landing which was her scabby neighbour's stuff and nothing to do with her.
I suggested that they could keep the crack pipe I'd discovered whilst cleaning as it was the property of a previous tenant. This was never mentioned again, they didn't ask where it was and I didn't volunteer that information.
thisisnotaspoon
From both sides of the fence:
This mostly ^^^
I am not the tidiest of tenant but if I move out from my current rental I will just pay whatever the landlord requires because he is a good landlord and I have broken some of the "plastic" window frames (dropped a heavy shelf on the frame) Apart from that the place might need a good cleaning nothing more but I am cleaning up slowly.
As far as I know the rental in UK is to keep the rental flat similar to the day you move in. In the far east they don't expect that much from the tenant and accept some wears and tears so long as it is nothing major.