[Closed] Is this a scam?

Did they offer more than the asking price?

Regardless i would avoid, sounds dodgy as.

Sounds strange..... Do you know of any couriers that pay cash on delivery for items you are getting collected?

Yes, sounds like it..a new years bargepole would be needed there.

As ever, if you have to ask...

No record of any transaction anywhere. Money laundering? Counterfeit cash? Maybe the "courier" is two big blokes with baseball bats?

Do you know of any couriers that pay cash on delivery for items you are getting collected?

Also, this.

Are they talking about a commercial courier, or a mate doing them a favour?

As long as you have cash in your hand then how can it be a scam?

^Hmm, Can I have your address please and details of any bikes you may be keeping at the aforementioned address? Thanks, promise I won't come round and steal them...

As ever, if you have to ask...

Best advice for this type of thing. Why bother if it sounds shady?

That said, I sold a road bike to someone on here and it was collected in a van consisting of all manner sex toys, videos and other "accessories"... but if someone had said that in advance I'd maybe have thought twice... I guess you shouldn't be too quick to judge this Nigerian prince on PB and invite the two huge guys with baseball bats that show up in for a cuppa- what's the worst that can happen 😀

I'm not sure if it's an actual courier or not although he said he would need to organise it and would let me know the collection date.

Can't be a courier as the driver wouldn't take a cash payment on behalf of a customer.. No couriers work like that.

Also courier; it's a very strange word to use for 'I'm sending my mate round in his tranny because my cars too small.'

Too much needless weirdness for my liking.

Seems like a lot of effort, not to mention leaving a bit of an evidence trail, to steal a second hand bike when you could as easily do it by looking at a gumtree or Facebook ad where people include a map view of their location

Still iffy though, imagine you are the buyer, in what legitimate scenario would you employ such a purchase tactic.. It's well dodgy.

Barge poles at the ready!

Thats what I thought. He has a profile on PB that is a a few years old, has sold some items himself on PB in the past. He has activity on there. He did haggle a little on the price initially

It seems a lot of effort to go to to nick a bike.

Cougar - Moderator

As ever, if you have to ask...

Always this.

It seems a lot of effort to go to

Well exactly.. Has he really fronted the cash to a courier to buy the bike blind?

No of course not. If he was that trusting he would have just bank transeferd the cash to you and said 'my mate dave will be round tomorrow to pick it up in his van.'

Would a legitimate courier operate like that?

No of course not. Couriers get paid up front for delivering stuff, not for arbitration of sale and carrying wads of cash around.

It's a scam.

It won't stop at "cash on collection". It will degenerate into some weird Western Union / pay you more than the asking price / refund through PayPal/ cheese induced nightmare.

Possibly involving the van full of sex toys.

Go for it, what could possibly go wrong?

Go for it as a STW experiment. Post pics of the sex toy van.

So apparently the bike is going to Germany. This is the message he just sent after I explained I was going to give it a miss -

I bought this way a few bikes. This is privat transportation company. I make them money transfer and the courier pay you cash on collection. This is the easiest methot to buy a bike from abroad. Courier will call you before and give you delivery note number. All you have to do is wrap a bike.

I got info that he can pick up the bike on Saturday. I can send you a car number and all needed details. Courier will call you before the collection.

There is no risk on your side becase you get the cash on hand. Also I am protected because courier will have all information about the bike and I know I get what I ordered.

Please let me know what is your decision because transportation company wants me to make the money transfer for this order.

Just arrange to collect at your local bank. Then, get them to put the cash into your account there. If the bank take it, it’s their problem not yours - they can’t reverse cash deposits.

Then give him the bike.

I’m normally pretty cynical but I’d imagine this could be legit. Go with your gut feeling though.

People who are afraid of someone finding out you own an expensive thing and coming to rob you, are you too afraid to actually use the expensive thing too in case someone sees you with it?

Why the hell would someone from Germany want to buy and ship a second hand bike from the UK rather than source one more locally that he can inspect.

You need to look at this propersition from the other side.

It's a scam. It's such a big scam it's got a name, it's called scammy mc scam face.

But go ahead op, I look forward to your next thread 'they took my santa cruz AND my Audi!'.

Am I having deja vu or did this exact same thing happen with someone else on here recently?

The whole courier /cash job is a well known ebay scam, usually accompanied by a wishy washy back story about disabled or sick reletives, and having to ship the goods overseas.

What's the value of the bike, op? I'm guessing it's not something that they could buy locally without the additional expense of shipping, insurance and private couriers. Lol.

So what is the scam? I've opted out but i'm still confused about what the 'well known scam' actually is.

The 'courier' will put the screws on you on arrival, they'll either be casing you out for burglary, or they'll intimidate you in to parting with it for less cash, or they'll convince you into some western union scam.

Or they may simply just wrestle the bike off you and drive away.

I can't see any scenario how this isn't some sort of scam from what's been said.

I reckon you'll be fine, not a scam but just inconvenient. German market is very xc orientated so if you're selling something more gnar then the hassle may be worth it for the dude.

Really. I find it difficult to believe there is no type of a certain bike in the whole of Germany.

And even if there wasn't, why would the purchaser employ such dodgy purchase tactics?

How does the scam work? Simple - it starts off sounding like a straightforward transaction that gets more and more complicated with the seller made to feel that they'd be messing the buyer around if they back out.

The van would be at your door and then it'd be 'really sorry not got the cash but can western union / PayPal' etc with some geezer on your doorstep looking impatient.

Best avoided really.

Too weird by far but I'm looking forward to seeing the rest of the story...

If scammers could use a [s]spill[/s] spell [s]chicker[/s] checker they wud get a heck of a lot more bizness

Oh, and just to play along with the scammer offer to use MyHermes rather than bother their "courier" 🙂

The whole courier /cash job is a well known ebay scam, usually accompanied by a wishy washy back story about disabled or sick reletives, and having to ship the goods overseas.

My wife almost got drawn into an identical one a couple of years ago. Unwanted pugs were being offered free via FB, but the 'owner' needed to stay in Scotland to look after a sick relative. A courier would deliver the dog. The only charge would be for delivery.

I'm guessing that once the unwary victim has been drawn in bank details would need to be sent over as the courier suddenly won't accept cash. Having harvested info from social media the scammer suddenly has all sorts of info to play with. (I may be wrong about all of this!)

If a seller wanted to confirm that the other party is legit then they could just contact the courier to ask about working methods?

I'm with allthegear on this one - meet at the bank, otherwise he can foff

grum - Member

I’m normally pretty cynical but I’d imagine this could be legit.

[url= https://image.ibb.co/jccO2G/suckers.jp g" target="_blank">https://image.ibb.co/jccO2G/suckers.jp g"/> [/img][/url]

As long as you don't hand over anything until you have cash in your hand I don't see how you're going to get scammed.

Link to the German dhl courier service offering cash on delivery option.

https://www.dhl.de/en/paket/information/privatkunden/service-nachnahme.html

It's legit

I for one would tread very carefully. The eBay scam is for the purchaser to pay by PayPal and then claim the money back from PayPal saying that they never received the goods. As the bike was collected there is no proof of delivery, so PayPal refund and you are out of pocket. As suggested above chances are that there has been an 'error with the cash transfer but the purchaser will put the money straight into your PayPal account instead..
I'd run a mile..

Oh, and just to play along with the scammer offer to use MyHermes

Known as going full Ling.

[quote=giantalkali ]Link to the German dhl courier service offering cash on delivery option.

That's not quite the same thing - that's where you arrange the delivery and the buyer pays cash to the agent. The suggestion here is the other way around - supposedly the agent comes with cash which they hand over on collection.

So, to add further, a friend of mine sold a bike in a similar fashion. A polish chap living in Poland bought the bike and used the same method. He used this company to collect and pay for the bike - http://lublin-transport.pl

They arrived on the arranged collection date, handed over the cash and took the bike. My friend didn't even have to box up the bike, the courier wrapped up the bike himself and took it away.

Maybe it was legit after all?

I wouldn't go for this.

Sold a bike very similar situation about 2 years back.

Was a quick and painless deal.

He wasn't getting the bike unless I had the agreed cash in my hand,I made that clear and he was fine about it. A guy turns up, casually checks it's the same bike, hands over cash and off he goes.

I’ve bought loads of stuff off eBay.de in Germany and Poland using exactly this method.

I pay the courier company for the collection/delivery plus the purchase price on top, they collect/inspect and pay for the stuff, then deliver it to me a week or so later.

Could well have been legit.

^^
Yeah, as above.

It's a classic eBay scam, because it means you don't have a record of them receiving it so they can raise a dispute, and you have to give the money back. Not sure if it would work on pinkbike though!!! 🙂

grum - Member

I’m normally pretty cynical but I’d imagine this could be legit. Go with your gut feeling though.

People who are afraid of someone finding out you own an expensive thing and coming to rob you, are you too afraid to actually use the expensive thing too in case someone sees you with it?

Na, cos that would be unfortunate for me if they followed me home, as opposed to deliberately giving them information on the location of potentially several *bikes, my motorcycle, tools and all the goods I have in my house, car keys etc....

*May or may not be expensive

It's a classic eBay scam, because it means you don't have a record of them receiving it so they can raise a dispute, and you have to give the money back.

Not sure how this is relevant to the situation the OP is describing ?

He’s talking about Cash on collection and nothing to do with eBay/PayPal.

deliberately giving them information on the location of potentially several *bikes, my motorcycle, tools and all the goods I have in my house, car keys etc....

I don’t think most thieves give a shit about this to be honest.
Nice houses are full of nice things (shocker)
They can sell any of them.
Break in and nick whatever you can carry.
They aren’t bothered if it’s a bike, or a bag of Laptops, iPads and phones.

(In fact, they would much rather it was the latter.)

grum - Member
As long as you don't hand over anything until you have cash in your hand I don't see how you're going to get scammed.

Fake cash.

Take cash and hand over, baseball bat round your head, bike and cash gone.

All seems to go well, some time later, house contents emptied, or if you've been talking up a new bike on forums to replace the one you're selling, bye bye new bike.

I don’t think most thieves give a shit about this to be honest.
...
They aren’t bothered if it’s a bike

Average opportunist types yes. There are loads of targetted thefts aimed at people they know have £Ks worth of bikes. Bikes are also one of the safest and easiest thefts. Virtually zero chance they'll get nicked for it. Very easy to dispose of the bike or parts.

There is no risk on your side

Sounds totally on the level. Legitimate buyers need to reassure sellers that there's no risk all the time.

Why are we still even discussing this? Tell him to foxtrot oscar and sell your bike to someone who doesn't want you to take payment in fish. If you've read his email beyond "I bought this way a few bikes" and you're still thinking "hmm, sounds plausible" then you deserve to have your bike stolen.

Besides, look at it from the other side.

Would you buy a bike from a bloke in Germany, unseen, by sending Yodel round with a carrier bag full of £20s? Even if it's legit, which it blatantly isn't, you're demonstrably dealing with a stone bonker.

This is just one big steaming pile of scam. Avoid.

We can all invent all sorts of unlikely imaginary scenarios to scare ourselves with. I genuinely wonder how people get through life when they’re so scared of everything. I’ve never been scammed BTW, maybe I’m lucky or maybe my instincts are good.

People saying this is definitely a scam, did you miss the bit where people said they’ve bought and sold bikes using this exact method?

Sure, it's not [i]definitely[/i] a scam. Worth a punt then obvs.

I’ve never been scammed BTW, maybe I’m lucky or maybe my instincts are good.

If you think this transaction is a great idea then I'd respectfully suggest that it's the former.

meh, He didn't go through with it so either position is equally valid. End of.

Difficult one really, mate has a second hand motorbike place in Aldershot and was approached like this, he investigated whether German courier could carry cash as above and found out they could. He received a long email explaining that second hand motorbikes are actually more expensive in Germany/ Poland and that is why they had approached him. So he had 2 or 3 staff with him when he sold the bike, the courier turned up, paid cash, gave him a full receipt for the transaction and was fine.

This was a few years ago, and he now has dealt with the same guys (poles living in Germany) a number of times, to the point where he sources bikes on their behalf now and as they are collecting 5-8 a time, they drive their own van over instead of a courier.

So definitely approach with caution, but may not be a scam.

If it was COD I would insist in cash not a cheque paypal bankers draft etc

The only scam there is to turn up and rob you of it

The real problem is scam artists do say COD as they dont want to pay you and I would certainly prefer another method
Also never been scammed but lost items in the post one to me and one from me and reimbursed both ways on trust - both were /are regular posters on here.

Besides, look at it from the other side.

Would you buy [s]a bike[/s] [i]second hand goods [/i]from a bloke in Germany, unseen, by sending [s]Yodel[/s] [i]a courier [/i]round with [s]a carrier bag full of £20s?[/s] [i]collection instructions and payment[/i]

Yes.

As I said earlier, I’ve done it loads of times without a problem.

Probably spent something like £30k over a five year period buying parts from Germany and Poland and never had any issue whatsoever.

Germany and Eastern Europe seem to do this all the time and nobody thinks twice about it.

It’s just cash on collection made easier for the buyer.

Certainly continental European countries have a different approach to delivery of goods and paying for things.

From a business view I recently ordered a large quantity (value) of goods from a company in France that we have never dealt with before.
They were happy to ship the goods to me and then accept payment after we had received them. No upfront payments were required.
There is no way that UK companies would operate in this way but clearly business and probably personal payments are viewed and handled differently to what we regard as 'normal'.

Just put 'UK buyers only' on yer ads and refuse any overseas buyers. Avoids this kind of hassle.

Unless you're really desperate to move something on... then who's the dodgy one.. 😉

(Similar scams using [url= https://www.paypal-community.com/t5/Access-and-security/Is-this-a-Paypal-Scam-on-Gumtree/td-p/976894?profile.language=en-gb ]Paypal[/url]. Not sure how it would work with a cash buyer, but I still wouldn't.)

Certainly continental European countries have a different approach to delivery of goods and paying for things.

Does [url= http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/is-this-a-scam-7#post-8937884 ]this[/url] read like an email from someone in continental Europe? I've spam-killed STW posters for less.

And you don't think an unnamed 'privat transportation company' is in the least bit suspicious?

If scammers could use a spill spell chicker checker they wud get a heck of a lot more bizness

This:

Can I have your address please and details of any bikes you may be keeping at the aforementioned address? Thanks, promise I won't come round and steal them...

I fell for an eBay scam a few years back (can I view? yes, sure). Emptied my shed.

Does this read like an email from someone in continental Europe? I've spam-killed STW posters for less.

I deal with customers in Germany and Poland all the time and the way this is written is very familiar.

And you don't think an unnamed 'privat transportation company' is in the least bit suspicious?

No. Not really. (Not to me anyway)

But like I said, I’ve dealt with these companies before. In broken English/German. And it sounds totally familiar.

If you haven’t, then I can appreciate why you might.

Fair enough.

All the more reason to arrange a meet at a neutral (i.e. WELL away from your home) public place.

Fake cash.

Take cash and hand over, baseball bat round your head, bike and cash gone.

Bike thieves don't work like this. The assault and theft occours on dark roads or quite lanes/parks. Not at your doorstep after a complicated scam involving fake couriers and counterfeit money.
P.s
It would have rung alarm bells with me !! But after reading the information on some of these posts I'd go along with it, providing the cash was placed in my hand.

I've seen before people are saying that due to the weak pound, UK goods are appealing to EU right now (especially on EBay).

You could of met at a bank as said previously, paid in the cash, made sure it was all legit, then handed over the bike.

Or do what I probably would of done and just said "Sorry UK only" as it sounds like a whole thing - I've not got time for that.

to the point where he sources bikes on their behalf now and as they are collecting 5-8 a time, they drive their own van over instead of a courier.

Probably sells that to fund van hire, hotels, ferries etc for the next trip....

Second hand cars/motorbikes/ bikes are astronomically expensive here.

Fake cash.

Take cash and hand over, baseball bat round your head, bike and cash gone.

All seems to go well, some time later, house contents emptied, or if you've been talking up a new bike on forums to replace the one you're selling, bye bye new bike.

But if you're going to do that, why bother with the courier story that might put some sellers off. Just say "I'll bring the cash round and pick the bike up, what's your address?".

That said, I'd say no to the 'offer'.

So, to update everyone in case anyone is interested in how this all panned out...

Couriers arrived in a van, two Polish chaps. Handed me the cash, a full printed reciept to confirm i had recieved the payment and that they had recieved the bike. They wrapped up the bike as they said they would in bubble wrap and packing card and off they went to deliver to the buyer in Poland. Buyer received the bike today, all happy, job done.

What happened is exactly as the buyer said would happen - he transferred the payment to them, they brought the cash and handed it over to me. The courier company just deliver large items (bikes, motorbikes, car parts) around europe mainly to and from the UK and Poland.

The easiest sale I've ever had.

If you've read his email beyond "I bought this way a few bikes" and you're still thinking "hmm, sounds plausible" then you deserve to have your bike stolen

And yet here I am with (real) cash in the bank and a happy buyer.

You live and learn, you live and learn.

Even if it's legit, which it blatantly isn't,

It was

you're demonstrably dealing with a stone bonker.

I wasn't

Nice one mate.

Being cynical is a necessary evil these days but not always.

Glad you had a smooth sale bud.:-)

Nice result for the OP! Win win

It’s great when a plan comes together, despite all indications to the contrary!
A win all round.
😀

Good for you, OP. 😀

Interesting, did you post a link already? Think you did. Could be a handy thing to have if they deliver this far north.

It is quite a good idea to be honest, no less secure than sending money by Paypal and hoping you get what you paid for. Glad it all worked out.

Well there you go, glad I was wrong and good on you for seeing it through to a conclusion.

Yep- scam.