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Less whining hopefully from now on.
Cameron can never look smug again.
P-Jay nails it - Same net contribution, less influence, but we now have the mirage of control.
FTFY
#littleengland
#fakecontrol
My mother in law (who voted leave) just rang. "You must be loving these low interest rates" says she (I run a business with a fair amount of debt).
The BOE might squeeze them down the teeny bit they have left, to try to paper over the first cracks, but I'd rather they didn't need to and still have customers, if it's all the same.
I conclude - if you live in the bizarre made-up world many of these people seem to inhabit then the economic utopia outside the EU that they voted for is already with us. There's good news everywhere you look.
Strangely as I have said elsewhere on STW as a remain voter I am already looking at my (and my kids) fiscal position improving, probably not what the working poor were hoping for - cut in corporation tax great news saved my business at least £10k next year - cut in interest rates and reduced house prices is great for my kids as first time buyers with good jobs - we could be viewed as the "haves" but in reality we have worked *ing hard and done without holidays and shiny bollocks to get here - frankly the upper and lower levels who voted out can crack on and continue whining about phantom immigration and Polish people stealing their jobs - the truth is these people at both ends are not part of the process they were simply used by Back out Boris and F off Farage- the simple fact is the prosperous will continue to prosper
Amazing how fast you can shift from the left to the right - now that's a ****ing protest vote.
About right. I'll be OK out of this whatever happens. Millions won't but a lot of them seem to be the leave voters so maybe I shouldn't care.
Oldmanmtb you now it's feasible people have long memories about the UK fishing industry decimation, see EU/it's policies, multi billion bailouts required both by current and future members and 'harmonisation' as not for them..but hey carry on with your blinkered redtop view that all the majority care about is 'immigration'. I didn't vote out because of immigration. It was cumulative reasons. Also I'm also English, British. I don't see myself as 'European' you probably would call me alittle Englander for that. It is possible to have an opposing viewpoint to you and not be belittled by BBC/press and social media narrow minded reporting.
As for 'Farage/Boris.
The remain camp had the 2008 duo, Gideon and Cameron. Enough said.
Oldmanmtb you now it's feasible people have long memories about the UK fishing industry decimation, see EU/it's policies
You mean the same fisheries run by idiots that would have decimated themselves in the long term through over fishing?
You can't even coherently defend your position, and then you create a new "I'm not racist" meme - "I'm not racist but I consider myself English not European".
Hora I really would like to see the working poor improve their lot, they might have done a spectacular protest vote but I would bet 3-5 years down the line they are in a worse position and the prosperous are better off. Protest is nothing without power - it's just words- why do you think Boris and Farage stepped away? They are many things but not stupid they both have a better grasp of the reality of trying to turn this thing around than the poor sods who voted for them. The very people that a lot of exit voters supported could not give a shit about them - talk about being mugged it's utterly disgraceful
No one ever gives a shit about the poor - Jarrow Crusade? No one ever gives a shit about the working class- miners strike why would these people think that this was the way to change things rather than a general election? Christ I would rather they all voted UKIP at least it would have meaning
The very people that a lot of exit voters supported could not give a shit about them - talk about being mugged it's utterly disgraceful
Not only that they never gave a shit about the poor and they still dont
The only real question is when the poor wake up to this fact not whether it is a fact
The British overfished?
http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/public/searescue/article1062537.ece
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2012/feb/27/overfishing-european-trawlers-eu-exemption
Again just a couple of stories from a few years ago.
The Navy has been intercepting and running off EU trawlers for years now who flouted and ignored the fishing ban.
Go back further and you'll hear stories of fishing communities all around Britain decimated.
But hey, like I said some people have short memories.
hora - MemberOldmanmtb you now it's feasible people have long memories about the UK fishing industry decimation
Which was a UK government decision. This is another "blame the EU for something we did to ourselves".
We will now be able to drive on the left when visiting continental Europe, which will be massively safer due to the steering wheel being on the right side at last - especially when overtaking.
It's also the start of a golden era for people who love telling others to stop whining whenever they disagree with their opinion. 😉
It's a important anniversary today. Missed by me and many no doubt 🙁
Good for manufacturing Hora? One of our local brewers was on Radio 4 saying that their hop shipment had just cost £800 more and they were really worried. They are small, go getting but not big enough to absorb massive price fluctuations that easily. When you don't have lots of backing even short term issues can sink you even if you look sound for the longer term.
It's not simple. Big companies with deep pockets will weather if. SMEs just have to be unlucky to fail.
hora - MemberIt's a important anniversary today. Missed by me and many no doubt
The aniversary of our government blowing up their own buses on the same day they were training for exactly such an incident and blaming it on some clueless planted scapegoats?
My Christmas card list is a lot shorter now so that's good. Also, as the backside falls out of the pound I've decided to embrace the challenge of having to rely on British food - does anyone have any good recipes for swan and red squirrel?
The aniversary of our government blowing up their own buses on the same day they were training for exactly such an incident and blaming it on some clueless planted scapegoats?
Not sure if trolling or just a monumental ****.
Why not both?
[url= http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/brexiters-excuses-increasingly-bollocks-20160707110366 ]The Mash... how far off the mark?[/url]
Also I'm looking forward to Britain returning to how it was in days of yore - I've watched a lot of Downton Abbey and have a face for hats
@oldman - you are aware there has been no cut in corporation tax ? Osbourne who may well not be chancellor in 2 months time made a "proposal" to the media. It carries no weight at all.
made a "proposal" to the media. It carries no weight at all.
A phrase that has become so popular post brexit....
So. Come on where is the rest of the good news?
@thisisnotaspoon: sorry to hear of your job loss. I fear my team and I may find ourselves in a similar position. not as a result of Brexit itself; but the likely upcoming recession created by all this uncertainty.
Sucks to be you TINAS! But at least you know where you stand I suppose... Cos currently, I'm in the unenviable position of owning my own business selling high end consumer goods in a time when consumer confidence is at an all time low as it dawns on them what they've done. So it sucks to be me too I guess!
I was an avid remain voter, I've always voted in General and local elections, but always kept it my own business as to who I voted for and why. The consequences of one party out of several being in control of the country for the next few years, and us then getting to vote again and change the status quo if we want to, being far less important than that of an (ironically advisory and not legally binding) referendum! As per P-Jay's comments, I was a complacent remainer, I believed that common sense and decency would prevail and we'd see a 60/40 vote (or greater) in favour of remaining. **** me if that wasn't some epic protest vote boys and girls! Way to stick it to the "slightly right of centre" establishment by empowering their much further right colleagues!
The thing is, everyone is now saying "oh well, shit happens, I'll just have to tighten my belt a bit"... That's all well and good, everyone lives to their means, if your disposable income has effectively just been reduced by 10-15%, your aspirational purchases are the first thing to go out of the window... My takings over the last 3 weeks (sales started to go down when people really started the scaremongering on social media) have gone down by over 70% compared to the preceding weeks, and the same weeks last year. Now some of that could be attributable to the crap British summer, but I'm guessing not that much.
Now, remain voter as I was, staunch and proud, I'd be more than a little prepared to be eating face fulls of humble pie had someone from the leave camp, say Boris Johnson per chance, had actually managed to formulate some sort of a plan to take the country forward. Having galvanised over half of the UK's votes, this Blonde prick instead has the audacity to say "sorry mate, didn't plan for this, you're on your own" leaving the country in a state of panic! If you're going to lead us into battle, albeit reluctantly, at least give us the confidence that you have more than half an idea what you're actually doing. I may not agree with you, but if you've got the conviction to stand by what you believe, faced with no other alternative I'd have stood behind you and fought your cause... But what we have instead is beyond a joke! Our boat has no captain, no rudder, no paddles, no lifeboats, no rats left to eat and those stupid enough to think that this is still a fantastic situation used the "in case of emergency" manual as a ****ing firelighter in their bid to keep warm!
ARGH!!!!!!! 🙄 😳 😥
I'm desperately trying to restore my customers confidence right now. The one upside is that there's never been a better time to buy a new bike, as relatively speaking, the bikes in the shops already are a bargain, as those that replace them will become ever more expensive. The reality is that consumers are worried, and as the bike isn't a necessity, they've closed down to the idea of buying a new one. Public perception is of course that whilst Joe Bloggs might have been looking at the XT equipped model of said bike, his budget will now only afford to buy him the SLX version so that's what he goes with instead. Reality is that Joe Bloggs wants XT, he won't settle for SLX, so he decides to postpone his purchase for another year or until he can afford XT again, which then of course starts a bidding war, every retailer under the sun trying to undercut each other and sell bikes at below cost just to pay this month's wage and rent bills! Of course the receivers are already rubbing their hands together, this is going to be times of plenty for them. But of course that's exactly what this country needs, big banks taking forced control of lots of independent businesses and asset stripping them and selling them off for 10p in the £... It's not like I've put several years of hard work into this and I've got staff to pay or anything!
The absolute worst part of all this though, and it's driven a massive wedge between us... My father, who has a fairly significant monetary investment in my business and isn't in a position that he won't miss it, still believes that Brexit is the best thing to happen to Britain since the allies won WW2! We're now barely on speaking terms (he believes that if the business suffers, which it is, it's me doing it on purpose to try to prove a point to him! FFS!!!) and I'm now working twice as hard as I already was (which was very hard anyway) just to try to protect our investment... I know that whatever happens, I've been broke before, I know how to deal with it, build myself back up again etc. I've found work before, I will find it again, I'm a pretty resourceful guy. But my Father? Well if this self fulfilling prophecy of a recession abates our relationship is always going to have a huge level of friction from now on at the very least, because believe me, he would cut off his nose to spite his face in an attempt to prove me wrong. And should it not recover? Well he will of course blame my incompetence (the business has been profitable since we started it, and turnover increasingly gone up and up until now). Oh the joy!
So... Please, for my sake and others like me... If you are unaffected or even better off because of Brexit, go and buy a new damned bike tomorrow! And if you are affected, and were about to buy a new bike, just buy the slightly lower specced one anyway, it's only 250g heavier and you won't really notice the difference anyway! 😳
I had a sad conversation with a young italian today... He's moved to scotland, left school with their gcse equivalent but now that he's grown up a bit, wants to get back into education. And what could i tell him? Absolutely * all. Because we don't know. Last month I'd say, go to college, get a HND, articulate into uni in 2nd or 3rd year. But we have no idea where we'll be in 2 years in relation to EU students- there might be no place for him, there might be no government support, and he's screwed.
It's one thing to say "oh it's just a little uncertainty, we'll pull through, just a couple of years"- if it gets you at the wrong moment, this is lifechanging stuff. This is what I do, it's [i]why[/i] I do what I do and all I could do for this kid was say sorry- we've *ed you. Not happy.
Scientific collaborations involving UK scientists are getting reviewed, which means less work for the same money for UK academics.
the ones that don't lose their jobs
that already have jobs, that is. If you are young and untenured, it's a bit bleak
What is it you do for a living Northwind?
all I could do for this kid was say sorry- we've ****ed you. Not happy.
he probably feels a bit like all those working classes in the midlands/north have done for many years...
Ultimately the vote is our governments fault for letting conditions in these areas reach the state they have - and not just this one but all the previous ones as well, and particularly if they were labour as they were suppossed to be more sympathetic to that sector.
he probably feels a bit like all those working classes in the midlands/north have done for many years..
Right. Brexit will be all about making their lives better.
Ultimately the vote is our governments fault for letting conditions in these areas reach the state they have - and not just this one but all the previous ones as well,
Got it!
and particularly if they were labour as they were suppossed to be more sympathetic to that sector.
Aaaah - yes - of course. Maybe if they'd just worn a nice suit and tie on the doorstep?
Right. Brexit will be all about making their lives better.
well what else was, and it has had an effect, banks/businesses are taking more notice. Investment banks are also taking notice of the problems of inequality :
Anthony Hilton's column in the standard last night quoted Deloitte senior partner David Sproul telling the annual conference of lobbying body TheCityUK "We are all paid too much. We will never shift the negative attitudes to globalisation if we carry on paying ourselves too much". HSBC Chairman Douglas Flint said he believed the world still wants the benefits of globalisation but with a much better distribution of the spoils. FCA chairman John Griffith-Jones said that now really is the time for the City to put the end-users of the market first.
Anthonys conclusion was "Business and finance have for years ignored soft talk about reputational risk and the withdrawal of a licence to operate as being the pious words of losers who don't really matter. But the Brexit vote presents a new hard reality - distrust and dislike of business have prompted the public to vote for a change that, if it goes through, will make commercial life harder and less profitable. Ignored for years, the public has finally found a way to force business to listen."
Brexit will be all about making their lives better.
Convince me.
...he would cut off his nose to spite his face...
I understand why he thinks Brexit is a good idea.
TurnerGuy if you believe any of the bollocks people like David Sproul say about being over paid as actually having a knock on effect to Traders and Merchant Bankers take home pay - dream on
Ultimately the vote is our governments fault for letting conditions in these areas reach the state they have - and not just this one but all the previous ones as well, and particularly if they were labour as they were suppossed to be more sympathetic to that sector.
It's easy enough to bemoan "the morons" who voted out for screwing up the country when you look around and see a nice place to live, some good income and the tenant paying your mortgage for you, however what if all you see is the degeneration of your town through lack of investment and interest with nothing to show for rising costs? Less reasonably paid secure jobs through ailing manufacturing sectors, compounded by the hike in house prices in recent years and all the while the South East seems happy to look after itself ie by channelling shitloads of money into HS2 to benefit London bound commuters whilst north of Luton get cattle sheds with battery hen spacing. The consequences of slapping a turd in your own face aren't as bad when you're in the slurry pit already.
We're all going to be poorer and people are nicer when they are poor
Except for the ones persecuting the immigrants
Some actual good here:
Some actual good here:
why is that good ?
They are just thinking of their own pockets again and not anybody that is suffering from the policies of the EU, or whether the EU is actually a good thing.
Ryan91 I agree that these places exist and people are absolutely fed up but this will change nothing - no one is going to invest on Nissan Sunderland levels in every post industrial town north of watford. I don't think for one minute that this stuff is fixable at any level. I have an American business colegue who is well travelled and he points out that nobody in the UK with investment cash would have ever backed Microsoft, Facebook, Google, Cisco HP or a raft of other VC businesses- the problem is we are ruled (yes ruled) by a class of people who are little more than Landlords and they will only investment in fixed assets and not human endeavour- this is my massive concern about the whole brexit bollocks we simply don't have the cultural or fiscal structure to create anything and if anyone wants to test this walk into your bank with 2 propositions the first £250k for a buy to let property or £250k to set up a manufacturing business that will create 10 jobs and I can guarantee Which one will get signed off.
Some actual good here:
Propoganda 😉 Lets see how the Austrian Presidential re-vote goes ? My money is Brexit means a win for Hofer.
no one with investment cash would have backed Microsoft, Facebook, Google ..
Your friend is clueless, whilst the US has a larger and more aggressive venture capital scene we have plenty of such investors many of them investing in the US funds which back these companies. Whilst it may be a US based fund fhe investors are global.
Banks are absolutely not the place to go for venture capital, banks are not in the business of lending based on an idea - thats VC. Same here and in the US
why is that good ?
Because it means 400m people in the EU will be spared he self inflicted misery which we have chosen to inflict upon ourselves!
I'd say it's a really good result (just not for us).
Footflaps Europe is very very sick indeed. The reason IMF/OECD wanted us to Remain is they want us to prop it up and they are well aware a Brexit will be worse for Europe than it will be for the UK. We have a flexible and dynamic economy unlike the rigid and dated environment which fhe EU seeks to protect. We'll be fine, I very much doubt the EU will be
Footflaps Europe is very very sick indeed.
Is that why you're there now?
Footflaps Europe is very very sick indeed.
Yet, another #jambafact from the world's biggest Eurosceptic.
The reason IMF/OECD wanted us to Remain is they want us to prop it up
Except they are they are punishing the £ more than the Euro, which suggests they think we are going to worse off than them...
Is that why you're there now?
World's biggest hypocrite....
Jamba - is far right Austrian leadership a good thing?
I assume you mean this Hofer
Austrian far-right presidential candidate Norbert Hofer has said he does not want his country to leave the European Union, apparently softening his position on a future referendum.
Mr Hofer is aiming to win a rerun of the presidential election on 2 October after his Freedom Party won a court challenge over voting irregularities.
After UK voters backed Brexit, he said Austria might also hold a referendum.
However, he has now made clear he thinks leaving would be a "mistake".
"I'm not in favour of an Austrian exit from the European Union; I've been annoyed for days that people have assumed I am," he told Die Presse newspaper
"I'm not in favour of an Austrian exit from the European Union; I've been annoyed for days that people have assumed I am," he told Die Presse newspaper
And if history has taught us anything it's never good to upset insecure Austrian racists...
Still light on the good news then...
"Convince me"
Stop reading newspapers and the BBC for a start.
All I can see is 'your holiday spending money will suffer' instead of our export trade will boom.
We do alot of exports, this is great for exports, shit for holiday money.
Start thinking positive.
All I can see is 'your holiday spending money will suffer' instead of our export trade will boom.We do alot of exports, this is great for exports, shit for holiday money.
Start thinking positive.
Ah thinking positive, forgot about that, along with bury head in sand and ignore the news....
Great for exports, unless we need to ship them, or they are made from UK sourced materials etc. Or neglecting the fact that the UK runs a massive trade deficit so imports significantly more than it exports...
Convince me with facts rather than vague statements.
We do alot of exports, this is great for exports, shit for holiday money.
It's shit for a lot more than holiday money, hora.
Any idea how much we import from Europe, and how this is affecting and will continue to affect prices? If you're not sure, the BBC and newspapers can help with answers.
I'm afraid a positive mental attitude is unlikely to help with things like this, old chap.
+1,MWS.
Hi we export an unknown amount to Europe. There are no trade tarrifs as yet but when they are c3%? Who knows. If we sell what people want they will buy it regardless of 3% difference. People here will still want to buy posh VAG products. The world will continue to turn.
The world will continue to turn.
....but costing us all more with each rotation.
Freedom at any price eh?
Why? Do you have a crystal ball?
I'm not arsed about materialism. Are you? I think people suffer from life because they worry about their financial standing, their status to their colleagues, their house prices instead of chilling abit more.
Hora, not sure what BBC pages you are looking at, but I'm seeing property investment funds shutting down, job vacancies crashing, scientists losing up to 1bn in EU funding, the ftse250 dropping, racist attacks, and yes also the pound anticipated to drop to 1.15 or even parity with the dollar. We haven't even started the process of leaving yet!
They are just thinking of their own pockets again and not anybody that is suffering from the policies of the EU, or whether the EU is actually a good thing.
They certainly lack the altruism and putting others first that defines you as it defines all right wingers and the parties they support:roll:
Whose fault it it now that our economy is going to the dogs?
[s]Stop reading newspapers and the BBC[/s] Be completely ignorant for a start.
All I can see is 'your holiday spending money will suffer' instead of our export trade will boom.
The foremer is true the later is just wishful thinking
We run a trade deficit so by a lot you mean less than we import. Given this even you should be able to work out whether we make money or costs us money.We do alot of exports, this is great for exports, shit for holiday money.
Start thinking positive.
Yes think only in soundbites, ignore the evidence and rally behind the hollow cry of optimistic Hora...the economics expert with a keen eye for the nuances of international politics. He is the beacon we should all turn to. **** the papers and the experts BELIEVE In Hora after all he Believed in Lance and if you cannot trust Hora optimism then whoses can you trust ?
Chewkw seems to have stopped posting triumphalist Brexit drivel, which is a positive.
Junkyard your are a ray of positivity. As are ALOT on STW and FB posting endless gifs and newspaper articles. Why not move on?
he got banned - no idea of the length- on vote night as all he was doing - i assume i use file blicker for him- was posting pictures
I really dont see what the fella brings to the forum tbh beyond a lowering of the IQ and a raising of the word count.
[url= http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/brexiters-excuses-increasingly-bollocks-20160707110366 ]When you start to sound like the Daily Mash then it might be worth entertaining the idea that you're on the wrong side of the argument[/url]
Hora, what is there to move on to? We've no PM, no opposition, no plan, no solution.
Aye, I'd tend to agree JY, but I always avoid engaging him as I was never sure whether he was taking the piss or had some serious issues.
I think chewk had some sort of spambot Brexit breakdown and got banhamnered.
While hora's hippy idealism is commendable, it's not so easy in the real world 'short term pain' means recession, job losses and misery.
For me it means real worry over my job as my grant with Welcome was up for review this week (stressful enough anyway), I have no idea how Brexit may effect their funding plans.
Immediately it means that the DNA sequencing project I had a quote for in USD from collaborators in China takes 10% more out of our budget now.
The remain beacon callmeDave is hanging around causing uncertainty by not going sooner. Markets like something more stable. Hopefully the new leader won't be so quick to continue the policy of putting troops in far lands.
I'll stay positive thanks. I just wish Corbyn would bloody go and the Labour party fire itself up.
"Or neglecting the fact that the UK runs a massive trade deficit so imports significantly more than it exports..."
...that's the problem that a weak £ will solve in the long term.
Germany and Japan both had their currencies fixed low post war. Did them a massive amount of good.
When you are heading in the wrong direction maybe carrying on regardless isn't the best plan. There is still a chance to turn this mess aroundWhy not move on?
I can't wait for the day when China tells us what to do. They are so much nicer than those Europeans.
The while thing is a monumental **** up.
When had a second referendum in 75 I want a second referendum now.
Hora is a man to be listened to, it's not 2 days ago since he was lecturing us on the British fishing industry, and I darent argue with him, after all he'd read two online newspaper articles on the subject, so is a bit of a heavyweight.
"While hora's hippy idealism is commendable, it's not so easy in the real world 'short term pain' means recession, job losses and misery.
For me it means real worry over my job as my grant with Welcome was up for review this week (stressful enough anyway), I have no idea how Brexit may effect their funding plans.
Immediately it means that the DNA sequencing project I had a quote for in USD from collaborators in China takes 10% more out of our budget now"
Well yes, but I'm not sure this is really good news as requested by the OP.
I don't want a second referendum, I just want some politicians to stand up and say the obvious truth that the whole idea is a disaster and should be abandoned asap. However Loathsome want to banish me for being pessimistic, apparently if you just stick your fingers in your ears and go lalalalala it's all just peachy.
Nobeerinthefridge I showed two examples of the EU fishing industry lifted off Google from the beeb vaults. I've watched the news on this since the 90's.
My memory doesn't extend as far as the first page of Google or the lead paragraph of the increasingly lazy reporting of the Guardian.
Let's just see what Autumn brings.
Ciao
"I don't want a second referendum, I just want some politicians to stand up and say the obvious truth that the whole idea is a disaster and should be abandoned asap."
This. A second referendum isn't going to help at all.
A calm Civil servant will explain to the new PM why ignoring a referendum (with some kind of democratic fig leaf) will be less damaging than doing whatever "leave the EU" means. ...and that's what will happen.
Loads of EU referendums have gone the wrong way for the establishment throughout the EU and it's always been sorted out the way the establishment thinks is best for us.
This will be the same.
The only way we're leaving is if leaving is practical and relatively painless, in which case, fine by me.
[i]Hora, not sure what BBC pages you are looking at, but I'm seeing property investment funds shutting down, job vacancies crashing, scientists losing up to 1bn in EU funding, the ftse250 dropping, racist attacks, and yes also the pound anticipated to drop to 1.15 or even parity with the dollar. We haven't even started the process of leaving yet![/i]
What you need to do is stop being informed by newspapers and BBC news. We're post-facts now, ignorance is bliss.
It's all about the reckons innit Hora?
outofbreath - Member
"I don't want a second referendum, I just want some politicians to stand up and say the obvious truth that the whole idea is a disaster and should be abandoned asap."
This. A second referendum isn't going to help at all.
A calm Civil servant will explain to the new PM why ignoring a referendum (with some kind of democratic fig leaf) will be less damaging than doing whatever "leave the EU" means. ...and that's what will happen.
Agreed. Now where's Sir Humphrey...
I thought of one, I thought of one.
It makes watching "Yes, Minister" even betterer.
Edit: and I have the complete set on DVD so I can save money at a time of financial uncertainty / instability.
I'll stay positive thanks. I just wish Corbyn would bloody go and the Labour party fire itself up.
Ah, yep, that's the problem, not enough people resigning. How did I not spot that sooner!!
The remain beacon callmeDave is hanging around causing uncertainty by not going sooner.
To be fair he was also heavily criticised for going too soon, not sure how he could have got the timing right on that one
Markets like something more stable.
You mean like staying in the EU?