[Closed] Is the term 'jungle drums' racist?

@ Malvern Rider, you can lead a horse to water.....

^ ...and yet it still appears not to acknowledge it’s own reflection.

So taking the Micky or uppity could be contentious, Malvern rider. Now you need some proof that they are and at that point I’ll stop using them.

So what do you want me to do that I haven’t already done? Contribute cheeky crypto-racist re-definition of both terms to urbandictionary.com, and then point at them as ‘evidence’ to ‘confirm proof’? Rant on here all day to get it up the search results? (oooops job done)

Refer (yet not link) a couple of unresolved disciplinary cases from history where offence was yet taken from someone who wasn’t offering?

So taking the Micky or uppity could be contentious, Malvern rider. Now you need some proof that they are and at that point I’ll stop using them.

He provided the proof in his post.

Does anyone on this thread still think it’s OK to use the JD expression?

Whereas you, and anyone else, have not provided any that it isn't.

If only it was some harmless indecent assault charges against children and it could all be forgotten about with a slap on the wrist eh?

It takes more than just the origin of an expression to make it offensive. On page 2 I gave some examples which went from not contentious at all to ones I personally find offensive:

“White wash” when used to mean a cover up.

“Edinburgh defense” when meaning someone was only joking so what they said was OK

“black sheep” which combines two clearly offensive words… imagine you’re black and Welsh!

“Going Dutch”, “French letter”, “Italian tune up”, “It’s Greek to me”, “Polish Plumber”, “Russian roulette”, “WC Turk”, “tête de Turque”, “parler comme une vache Espagnole”,

Which would you people use?

Slapping on the wrist is not longer acceptable, Squirelking, it's assault. However a suspended sentence is often the most appropriate sentence where there is a low risk to the public of someone remaining free, possibly with an electronic bracelet to keep an eye on where they are.

You seem to have missed this from page 1, Squirelking:

Edukator

Member

Lokks like you’re safe OP. Efter six months of wrangling a council backed down after excluding a woman for the use of the expression.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/8320510/Council-backs-down-in-jungle-drums-racism-row.html
Posted 4 days ago Reply | Report
zilog6128

Subscriber

Lokks like you’re safe OP. Efter six months of wrangling a council backed down after excluding a woman for the use of the expression.

not quite…

The council has not, however, rescinded its finding that the “jungle drums” remark was racist,

Posted 4 days ago Reply | Report

It takes more than just the origin of an expression to make it offensive

Hang on, I thought if the person offended decided it was offensive then it is offensive. Intent of the speaker doesn’t matter.

a suspended sentence is often the most appropriate sentence where there is a low risk to the public of someone remaining free, possibly with an electronic bracelet to keep an eye on where they are

You’ve probably chosen the wrong weekend to be making this argument.

Hang on, I thought if the person offended decided it was offensive then it is offensive. Intent of the speaker doesn’t matter.

Bingo.

Malvern Rider, I’m not going to post anymore as you’re doing a far better job. It’s appreciated.

Once again I say – join a union. It would have made a big difference here

Yep. TJ has given excellent advice throughout this thread.

Edukator - please do not put me alongside you. Your response has been hysterical and rather nasty calling the OP and others racist in a way I would never do I do not want to be associated with you at all.

Thanks

Hang on, I thought if the person offended decided it was offensive then it is offensive. Intent of the speaker doesn’t matter.

Yup, the two conditions are complementary not contradictory.

You're getting confused, easily. Mixing up the reason a word or expression might be offensive based on its origin and whether anyone finds it offensive, and then whether it's judged sufficiently offensive by society as a whole to become taboo.

You've expressed exactly the same views on union memebership and the fact the OP could have saved the situation, TJ. If you wish to dissociate yourself from those points of view that's fine by me. You posted this so you've done th esame as me:

tjagain

Member

Just read what Molegrips said. He explained it well.

FFS guys get over yourselves. Its not the 1970s.
Posted 4 days ago Reply | Report
tjagain

Member

“Put people right?” A member of the white majority telling a member of the black minority that considered a statement racist that they are wrong? You cannot see what is wrong t=with that. jeepers. Before you judge a man walk a mile in his shoes
Posted 4 days ago

If the expression is racist, people using it are racists.

I'm not sure if or when I've ever used the JD expression. I certainly won't be using in future. I'll reword earlier questions in the form of a poll:

Is it OK to use the expression "jungle drums" to mean "grapevine" or "rumour mill" in modern society,.

My personal answer is "no, it's not OK".

Is using the expression "jungle drums" to mean "rumour mill" racist?

My personal answer is "yes, it's racist".

Answers on the thread for all to see please. Before this thread I wouldn't have been so sure. Now I'm absolutely certain.

No I have not done the same as you Edukator. I have not called people racist nor have I distorted the definitions as you have.

Sophistry

YOu know those threads? The ones where everyone says “ this is why STW is amazing”? This isn’t one of them. Petty point scoring everywhere.

you’ve made your own off colour remarks regarding women IIRC in the past,

Like the one about preferring his women not be on birth control because it makes them too emotional and irrational? I remember that one in particular because of the reaction of a mate who happens to be a member of the distaff side.

Since you believe "JD" is offensive, maybe you could find us a reference that isn't a council in devizes?

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2006/10/25/261816/-

Use Google for more on the same and other incidents.

That would be the sound of jungle drums, not the phrase 'jungle drums'. Did you even read the link or did you just google jungle drums + racist and post the first result?

Maybe try a dictionary?

Just FYI Malvvern, there is more evidence that taking the Mickey is actually from rhyming slang for Micheal Bliss, piss, than a reference to the Irish.

Uppity, on the other hand, difficult to believe someone could be ignorant of that.

Uppity, on the other hand, difficult to believe someone could be ignorant of that

Holds hand up...

Olly, I think that may just be the point. Easy to be offended if you don't know the etymology yet an innocent phrase otherwise.

And yes, I'm pretty sure that was the one I was thinking of.

If the expression is widely acknowledged to be racist, people using it are racists.

Fixed that for me

Is it OK to use the expression “jungle drums” to mean “grapevine” or “rumour mill” in modern society?

My personal answer is “no, probably not but IME it is NOT widely acknowledged to be racist, nor have I ever heard it used as such”.

Is using the expression “jungle drums” to mean “rumour mill” racist?

My personal answer is “currently, no, though may depend on context and intonation”.

Before this thread I wouldn’t have been so sure. Now I’m absolutely certain.

Needs more for me than one report to HR from an incident I didn't witness?

You’re getting confused, easily.

From what I’ve read if the last two pages that’s you Edukator. I’ll sit and wait whilst you go and dig up my posting history to prove a point. By the way it’s not just creepy, it’s really quite sad and pathetic.

By the way it’s not just creepy, it’s really quite sad and pathetic.

I was going for borderline psychopath.

Quite the opposite. You are talking about the difference between the intentionality of an utterance and its illocutionary force.

Sorry, not clear. I was referring to the phrase “no offence given”, not the jungle drums. I understand that if I say something that offends somebody then I am the one who should carry the blame. Feelings are not negotiable, or similar.

Uppity? Never heard of that as racist.

Edit - dictionary not giving me much clue either. Its a condescending and pejoritive word but racist
2nd edit - looks like that american because its often used for black folk

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2006/10/25/261816/-

Use Google for more on the same and other incidents.

This is a very enlightening article, this is one of those difficult cases where someone has been inadvertently racist - what else could playing african drums as background music during footage featuring your black opponent be?

It however has nothing to do with the use of the phrase "Jungle Drums".