[Closed] Is social media a bit crap?

*liked* & *shared*

more like

*blocked* and *reported*

I'm sure someone will come along soon to point out the irony of posting that on a social media forum

[quote=brooess ]I'm sure someone will come along soon to point out the irony of posting that on a social media forum
No need now 😉

Brooess has it 🙂
Some people are just a bit crazy at social media

Someone got banned by mistake from here last week. It was all over Facebook within minutes. Some people...

in 2013, being "seen to do the right thing" is approximately 398 times more important than actually doing the right thing!

(hence the endless number of people "appalled" or "Shocked" or whatever when something happens to someone they had upto that point never heard of or had any interest in whatso ever)

I recently closed my FB and twitter accounts, sold my smartphone and bought a basic Nokia. Still look, post on sites like this but generally reduced time in the digital world.

Not sure but I think this was brought about by feeling the web taking more than it gives FB definitely but the web in general , there are so many companies using everything posted with keyword association software and all that, your really just providing insight help fine tune sales pitches.

That and tbh I have no interest in what people I vaguely know are having for tea or pictures of their hols.

Facebook and Twitter can be brilliant or total crap.

It all depends on who you choose to have in you "social media circle"

Pick a load of dullards and you get a load of crap to read.

Pick a load of interesting people and you get a load entertaining stuff.

yeah, its what you make of it, I had a cull on facebook, got rid of all the crap and now just use it for keeping in touch with friends that are living away. No status updates from folk I met once at a friend of a friends party, and i'm not friends with people who are idiotic enough to post pictures of their food #nomnomnom 😉

I ditched my Facebook account about a year ago and haven't missed it at all, though I've nothing against it and can see why some people like it.

Twitter seems like a massive load of toss to me. I've no doubt that the guy above is correct in saying that if you follow interesting and witty people it's probably OK but when you're looking at it from afar in it's entirety it often comes across as utter turd.

Reading broadsheet newspaper articles that refer to the 'twitterati' or the 'commenting classes' with a straight face; or base whole pages of diatribe on somebody's 3 sentence comment on twitter makes me slightly sad for the human race tbh.

in 2013, being "seen to do the right thing" is approximately 398 times more important than actually doing the right thing!

(hence the endless number of people "appalled" or "Shocked" or whatever when something happens to someone they had upto that point never heard of or had any interest in whatso ever)

I find that both appalling and shocking.

For a lot of people the interweb just got too big,too fast and they get a bit confused. It can be amazing, but it's not compulsory. Other things in life are available. 🙂

Two things, Facebook in particular has be come post and repost if advertising or trite media filling up my phone that I've now failed to see the point of it (who cares if you support the motivation sayings if Benny the Panda) and secondly I have enough going in in my life to bother to have the time or interest to follow someone else's.

I've moved across the world, facebook helps me keep in touch with friends and family. It has also helped me get involved in more things and find more people to ride with. The trick is to get out and do it in between moaning.

That's strange, I'm sure I just posted my twitter account, @rachel_norfolk on here..
Edit - ah, sorry, two similar threads...

Rachel

allthegear - Member
That's strange, I'm sure I just posted my twitter account, @rachel_norfolk on here..

Ah yes - it's a bit early and slept badly!!

I just don't get Facebook. I had an account years ago for a few weeks but all of these people I did not want to speak with starting adding me as a friend so I shut the account down.

My wife is a Facebook voyeour (watches but does not post) and some of the stuff people put on there is cringeworthy.

It seems to be a platform for people to brag and show off.

So proud of little jonny today.....

I love my wife so much.....

It is only posted in an attempt to make themselves look good and feel good about themselves.

I guess I am part of the anti-social network.

I just don't get Facebook. I had an account years ago for a few weeks but all of these people I did not want to speak with starting adding me as a friend so I shut the account down.

It must be nice to have friends like you 🙂 It does depend on age and who many of your main circle of friends are active on it. I reckon it will have changed in the last few years as more of your friends may have joined.

It seems to be a platform for people to brag and show off.

So proud of little jonny today.....

I love my wife so much.....

It is only posted in an attempt to make themselves look good and feel good about themselves.

I guess I am part of the anti-social network.

Sounds like this place really...

It seems to be a platform for people to brag and show off.

So proud of little jonny today.....

I love my wife so much.....

It is only posted in an attempt to make themselves look good and feel good about themselves.

However I also have friends who have moved to far flung parts of the world so it's nice to see what they are up to, plus some of their photos are amazing.

There should be a banality setting on FB so it filters out the boring mundane/boasting crap and just shows you the really interesting stuff. You could probably design one based on how frequently people post (that would probably work very well on here too...)

As others have said,

In social media, it's the "social" bit that's important, not the "media." If you surround yourself with halfwits, you'll only ever get messages from halfwits. If you feel like don't "get" it, you probably either need better friends or better quality control.

I've learned from Facebook, where I'd 'friended' anyone I've even met once (and sometimes not even that) with the net result that my timeline is probably 40% shite. On Twitter, I only follow people whose output I like to read. I think that's one benefit of Twitter over Facebook, there's no onus on you to mutually follow people; you can follow someone who doesn't follow you and vice versa. Someone follows me and I look at their stream to see if a) they're a spammer / bot (then they get blocked / reported) and b) whether they're interesting enough to add to my stream.

It is only posted in an attempt to make themselves look good and feel good about themselves.

what evil is this!!!??

people feeling good about themselves..!?
I don't like the sound of that at all!

people feeling good about themselves

I am both shocked and appalled.....

IME most of my friends post only about the good things in their lives which can be very disconcerting especially if things aren't going too well in your own.

In the distant future, when cultural archeologists are studying our time, they will conclude that we worshipped a semi-mythical creature called the lolcat.

Makes you wonder whether the ancient Egyptians were really just doing funny pictures of cats as well, eh?

My FB account was closed 2 years ago, the final straw was after having "culled" a load of folk I once worked with 10 years ago they resurfaced like some kind of Zombie asking to be "friends" again.
I also destest how the proper media report stuff like "Following the comments from Dick Wad, MP for North Titdale, 30,000 people signed up to a FB page saying he was a knob/hero"

I do use Twitter but mainly to find stuff out, I follow organisations/publications/bloggers etc rather than people as such I found it very useful last year when all the LA Dopestrong stuff was flying about. The problem I see with ****ter is that people get into trouble over stuff they say/promote and then the uninitiated think that it is a celeb promo platform (which it can be). I don't follw Stephen Fry and recently "unfollowed" a load of Olympians as they had begun to use the feed as a sponsor outlet with no actual content as such.

I also write a blog but treat it more as a diary of stuff i do and don't update it much. I do think about reopening an FB account but only so as i can access some stuff like music etc but don't really like the sell sell sell attitude of it, which most people are seemingly blind to.

The answer to the original question is: Yes. It's crap.
However...I'm quite happy here in Singletrack world. I think that's the secret...choose your forumns wisely as you would choose your friends. The problem with FB and twitter is you're exposed to so much mindless rubbish that you would normally avoid like the plague. Trending...good grief!

I mainly post pictures of our cats on FB, although I've spent the last week or so posting Vitriol about Thatcher, but after Wednesday, it's back to cats.....

farcebook seems to be mostly political BS (2 radical far left communo-socialists, and 1 tea-party on my feed). At least they do provide a feature that lets you still appear to be friends (worryingly, they are genuine friends), but ignore anything they write.

That, and all the "click like if you know someone who died from cancer", cheese me off. - Err how about NO!

edit: oh and games. I don't give a cack about games so stop blimmin' well sharing all those poxy apps with me.

I unliked (that's not even a word ffs) everything on fb. Anything I want to follow is on twitter. I also refuse to "friend" any one who is a relative or colleague (former or current).

At least they do provide a feature that lets you still appear to be friends (worryingly, they are genuine friends), but ignore anything they write.

This feature is quite handy for people who are actually your friends, but who only seem to use FB to promote their lifestyle business. You know the type.

in 2013, being "seen to do the right thing" is approximately 398 times more important than actually doing the right thing!

It's always been thus, probably even more so in the past actually. The only thing that's changed is the medium - the social part never really changes.

The big change of recent times is the voice that people can have. In years gone buy we were just peons, slaving away, knowing our local circle of people in our local town and never experiencing anything else - regardless of how much we wanted to see or do more, or how much we had to offer the world. Now, those who want to express themselves to the world can do so at the click of a mouse, and some of them are pretty interesting. Only some though 🙂 Likewise I can read about life in the USA, Eastern Europe, ****stan, or wherever, again just by clicking a few links. It's pretty damn fantastic imo.

I get updates about my extended family and distant friends along with political comment from several countries and interesting snippets of daily life. It's cool.

However you do need to stand off a bit. Don't 'like' everything you actually like in real life, you'll get endless marketing spam. Just don't get sucked into the machine 🙂

Also, if you don't like the advertising, make the window narrower, the ad column disappears.

George Takei seems to have got the hang of it...

I used to find Facebook as many above describe. I had a few '00 friends ranging from people I hadn't seen since school to people I met in the pub once 3 years ago.

I deleted the lot and started again. I now have 43 friends, I block updates from the people who spam about banal stuff. I am a member of 3 groups, 2 cycling and one running, and tend to use these more than anything else as they tend to act like mini generaly on topic forums. although there are a few frends I read their status updates as they are interesting / funny.

kind of like the above. I'd rather not be in the groups, but they do come in handy... just ignore fb 99% of the time and set up email notification for the minimal amount of things to let you know there's been some activity.

TBH, i could probably purge a handful of friends that really ought to just be fellow group members.

I deactivated my FB account a couple of weeks ago. Haven't quite gone for the conclusive "deletion" yet, but definitely not regretting the decision so far. My life, as far as I can tell, has not been compromised by not reading the barrage of shit that FB provides.

My life, as far as I can tell, has not been compromised by not reading the barrage of shit that [s]FB provides.[/s][b] I asked Facebook to provide me with[/b]

Facebook doesn't chose what to show you.

You ask it to show you stuff.

FB on mobile seems to be 30% ads right now, but on a browser my feed is very clean and only shows stuff I'm interested in.

You are stealing the bread from Mark Zuckerberg's family's mouths footflaps.

Facebook doesn't chose what to show you

"events near me" is one for starters. I don't choose which ones it promotes to be my top story. It puts them there, I hit remove, it puts them back again 🙄

It seems that Guildford, Bath, and Chester are all near Frankfurt.

Facebook doesn't chose what to show you.

You ask it to show you stuff.

Damn right.

It's not a TV channel that you passively watch. People need to be aware that what's on their feed is there because they put it there.

Oh and it's also useless at remembering preferred sort order.

I choose reverse chronological. It decides to randomly insist that I see top stories. Well half the time they were top.... 2 weeks ago.

nealglover - Member

My life, as far as I can tell, has not been compromised by not reading the barrage of shit that FB provides. I asked Facebook to provide me with

Facebook doesn't chose what to show you.

You ask it to show you stuff.

Only true to a degree - yes, the "friends" I have on there were willingly requested / accepted. And yes I can block elements of what others post. But ultimately if I reach the point, which I did, where I literally couldn't care less about 99% of what comes up on it the choices are either block everything everyone posts, never go on it but leave my profile "live" or deactivate / eventually delete my account.

So far the latter is working pretty well for me.

molgrips - Member

Facebook doesn't chose what to show you.
You ask it to show you stuff.

Damn right. It's not a TV channel that you passively watch. People need to be aware that what's on their feed is there because they put it there.

[s]I think you've confused "show you stuff" with "let you show others your stuff" there. [/s]* And it can be the former if you never put stuff on it, which I bascially didn't.

*edited because it turns out I can't read. But see above anyway.

You are stealing the bread from Mark Zuckerberg's family's mouths footflaps.

To be honest he's just not very good at targeted advertising - I'm never going to take up betting nor play farmbuild games, no matter how many ads he shows me, hence I just browse FB in a browser using ad avoidance software.

EDIT: I'm actually surprised at how crap Facebook advertising is. If they actually used all the data I posted / liked they could profile me very well. As it is, it's fairly obvious they don't do anything like that and just flood everyone with the same ads....

If they actually used all the data I posted / liked they could profile me very well.

There's also embedded FB gadgetry now on almost every single website you visit. Now those site don't get to see your profile details (afaict), but the other way around is (potentially) true.

With my tin foil hat on, I use 1 browser exclusively for FB, and another for everything else (and make sure there are no FB cookies).

Of course they don't necessarily use just cookies, but can also track by IP etc. and all manner of other methods.

EDIT: I'm actually surprised at how crap Facebook advertising is. If they actually used all the data I posted / liked they could profile me very well. As it is, it's fairly obvious they don't do anything like that and just flood everyone with the same ads....

A lot of the advertising (don't know if it all is?) is targeted by the advertiser, not by Facebook.

I can choose from loads of different options on who to show my adverts to.

Right down to individual postcode areas, or people with more than four kids etc.

So if the ads are targeted "wrongly" then it's more than likely the advertisers fault.

Although they only pay if you click on the advert anyway, so a lot of the time they don't really mind if its badly targeted.

anytr - install ghostery on your browser (there's an add-on for most) and it blocks all those types of background harvesting processes. Very interesting to see how much would be going on otherwise.

There's also embedded FB gadgetry now on almost every single website you visit. Now those site don't get to see your profile details (afaict), but the other way around is (potentially) true.

Which you should be blocking using Facebook Disconnect!

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-us/firefox/addon/fbdc/

but can also track by IP etc

Not as useful as you think eg everyone in my office appears externally as the same IP address. With a campus university you might have 1000s of students masked behind each public IP address.

Although they only pay if you click on the advert anyway, so a lot of the time they don't really mind if its badly targeted.

Except that too much poorly targeted advertising turns the user off the medium eg I no longer use the FB iPhone ap....

I put a post on my FB feed a few weeks ago ranting about it. The main jist being that is just seem to be be update pics of babies, new cars & holidays in the Seychelles......blah blah, what was the point etc.

In an ironic (probably should have predicted) twist, the people that I was probably most aiming my rantette at were the first to comment saying how brilliant FB is, but it is annoying that people just post stuff to show off etc......

The thing I find annoying is that people put ill-thought out comments on there, then get stroppy when you reply saying 'well no, actually....x, y, z' - I think a lot of people on there are seeking attention/in need of approval/think they are better/more important that others and only expect cooing & praise for the guff they post.

Anyway. Must dash. I've got a new phone that I need to tell all my FB friends about....

I have no desire to start a twitter account, I'm sure there are some worthwhile postings on it somewhere, but the overwhelming impression I get is that it's an outlet for Vapid dickheads to spout.

I can see the appeal of a blog if you have something to say that others may want to hear about, but an awful lot of them have very little that anyone will really care about, there seem to be a lot of failed journalists in the world whose blogging of inconsequential nonsense is probably actually holding them back from any sort of success rather than demonstrating their abilities, it's sort of tragic...

Facebook is a bit of a joke now IMO, it's not very "social" TBH, it's simply another form of media.

I use it to share pictures from time to time with friends and family and very occasionally comment on others pictures but it's become rather dull and seems to be full of "Force it down your throat" extreme political cobblers (from all quarters) unsubtle advertisers trying to flog stuff, and Stalkers it's ceased to be [I]"Cool"[/I] sorry Mark...

Then we come back to the boring old Forums, I actually sort of like Forums, because they don't suffer the fabricated sense of urgency and their content generally comes from normal people with an interest in the topic, and they pick up a bit of "atmosphere" is that the right word? They have a "feel" to them, normally due to their core topic(s), the type of people that use them and the way's in which they are moderated (or not), that I sort of like.

I don't want to "follow" a film star or politician, I'd actually rather discuss 29ers, Maggies legacy and concepts of social justice with you lot...

Don't get your news from any of these outlets that's what we fund the BBC for in part...
They should really be for discussion and in my view a Forum is a far better place for reasoned debates (or unreasonable arguments if you like) than twitter/facebook or blogs those all seem to be the online equivalent of lot's of people shouting all at once with no bugger stopping to listen (or read) discuss or think...

Except that too much poorly targeted advertising turns the user off the medium eg I no longer use the FB iPhone ap....

Advertisers should learn to target their adverts better yes.

Mine are all targeted very specifically, and I keep a close eye on the ratio of Displays to Clicks to make sure that my targeting is putting my adverts in front of people who are interested in the service.

If the ratio is wrong, I change something and see what happens, until it improves.

Others don't seem as bothered.

rather discuss 29ers

This is the Chat forum, all bike related chuff is explicitly banned. Apparently there is another forum somewhere for bike related nonsense....

Others don't seem as bothered.

You'd think Facebum corporate would be though as they'll alienate their user base with stupid William Hill 'Aren't I cool losing loads of money betting' style ads....

I find the Facebook human summariser add-on works brilliantly - I have a rarely used FB account but my wife is a frequent flyer. I trust her to filter out the dross and only pass on useful information about friends and family using the medium of conversion. She gets to feel all powerful and the font of all knowledge; I get to feel smug that I have contracted out one of life's tediums.

This is the Chat forum, all bike related chuff is explicitly banned. Apparently there is another forum somewhere for bike related nonsense....

It was the general point, I like the fact that a forum (such as STW) allows it's users to join a topic or start one that they are interested in, and that there is discourse and debate with others who are genuinely interested, rather than short and punchy popularist chucking about of opinions without any real discussion.

Discussion and debate is what forums have over pretty much all other online social media...

+1 Convert.

You'd think Facebum corporate would be though as they'll alienate their user base with stupid William Hill 'Aren't I cool losing loads of money betting' style ads....

To a certain extent they do.
They give you loads of information an targeting and statistics of every element of what you are advertising and who to etc.
Betting sites such as William Hill don't need to target as much as someone like me does though, because their service is virtual and their market is global.
And to be honest, you probably do fit into their target demographic perfectly. So their targeting is probably working well generally.

It strikes me that saying that social media is crap is like saying that books are crap because there are some rubbish books out there.

If you find fb crap then it's because you're friends with people who post crap...

It strikes me that saying that social media is crap is like saying that books are crap because there are some rubbish books out there.

I tend to find its the same people who sit in the corner of the canteen/pub/etc grumbling about how rubbish it is in here...

clubber - Member

If you find fb crap then it's because you're friends with people who post crap...

That's absolutely 100% true, and is the root of the problem. I always assumed that reflects everybody's experience of Facebook.

What sort of dynamic, provocative and compelling nuggets do you and your friends post? I'm finding it hard to imagine the social heights you're implying exist elsewhere...

Well I could be a lover of inane celebrity chat and maybe that's all my friends post. Or maybe my friends all post about bikes non-stop or maybe some of it's a bit dull but easy enough to ignore while enough is of interest that I find it good overall. Or I could have a lot of friends around the world that I'd lose touch with most likely otherwise.

FWIW, I have turned off the feeds of a couple of people who I know and like but do seem to post stupid stuff on fb. No harm done. Maybe you know more of them than I do.

It's bizarre people complaining about junk from their FB friends. Just block them ffs. It's not rocket science.

I like to hear about new babies and where people have been on their holidays because they are my friends and family.

I am a casual FB user dipping in maybe two or three times a week. Very rarely post. My kids are more permanent residents and it is a medium that supports their social group in a wider context without the limitations of texting. It has become a social phenomenon and has stayed rather longer than some would have predicted. This is probably down to the way it has / is evolving and because companies are getting on board with it.

I see no compelling reason for me to sign up to twitter - so I haven't. My life seems no emptier or fuller in my blissful ignorance. Twitter does seem to be more geared to vanity though with the ability and willingness of people to indulge whatever stream of consciousness may be gripping them at any given moment.

What seems to be more "worrying" is the apparent trend of businesses to be adopting social media style interaction internally through tools such salesforce and yammer. Just don't understand it, at all.

However, as Molgrips points out, there are some uses to it. Public opinion is now more easily gauged and grievances have a more public platform. Look at the cases posted on this site of complaints about some service or other that was posted on twitter and there was follow up by the company. Perhaps us poor people are starting to get a bit more publicity when things are not going well. Probably won't last though...

That's absolutely 100% true, and is the root of the problem. I always assumed that reflects everybody's experience of Facebook.

Not mine really.

I follow a few companies I'm interested in for product development etc, some of my real life friends that are interesting people and post good stuff, some people who are friends of people I know that post interesting stuff.

I get invites to stuff and find out what's happening and what's coming up.
Rides and riding weekends away get discussed and organised.
Birthdays and holidays get planned organised.

All pretty good stuff really.

I use Ghostery add on with Firefox (and also NoScript). I have found it to be very good. What it reveals about how we are spied on is alarming though. At the moment it has a block list of over 1000 different tracking programs trying to spy on what people do on the internet and which it seeks to block from doing so. Terrifying really - the Guardian newspaper always comes up as one of the worst as it constantly gets caught out by NoScript and Ghostery - loads of tracking every time you look at one of the papers pages. Unless you load protection programs you just don't realise the scale of the problem.

Unless you load protection programs you just don't realise the scale of the problem.

I appreciate that people are looking at what you do on the Internet.

But if those people are legitimate companies rather than Nigerian Scammers, what are the issues ?

Genuine question by the way.

I binned facebook and twitter, just because I didn't like the headline nature of them. Tbh they're just a variation on forums anyhow... so I stick with forums where things can get deeper and more interesting.

Plus anything interesting from fb and twitter end up on forums 5 minutes later anyhow.

Does anybody actually click on adverts?

Intentionally that is, I've clicked them identically.

I usually get my Fb and Twitter feeds via Flipboard, but even when I use the actual apps I still rather think of the feeds as a bit like a newspaper or magazine, in that I scroll through, skip the crap, and view what's interesting to me. Possibly because I only view on my phone or pad, it's easy to just flick up and down, scanning what's posted.
The ads are a pain, but so are ads on TV, and I generally don't watch those either. My Twtr feeds are pretty well chosen, so I get very little garbage, and I ignore any crap that's chucked up on Fb by my friends. The postings by musicians and bands I find very useful, I [i]really[/i] enjoy the SuicideGirls postings, and Col Chris Hadfield's posts from the ISS are spellbinding; his photos from orbit are so damned good I'll happily forgive any other flaws that Fb has.

I appreciate that people are looking at what you do on the Internet.

But if those people are legitimate companies rather than Nigerian Scammers, what are the issues ?

Genuine question by the way.

As well as the commercial data mining you may or may not find acceptable there is also a few companies developing "future crimes" software. Here's an article in everyone's fave the [url= http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/feb/10/software-tracks-social-media-defence ]Guardian[/url].

meh..

I'm squeaky clean these days but have had a very chequered history..

I think that unless you're up to no good, or at the very least doing stuff that you're ashamed of, then what have you really got to fear from data mining..?

Is this to avoid some sort of dark future conspiracy, or are you just worried about your granny finding out what you're tossing off to..?

Read the article, its not about catching you knocking one out, it's about what someone thinks you may do because you talk to people who have a chequered history.

There's a difference between being aware of something and worried by it that's possibly beyond you.

As well as the commercial data mining you may or may not find acceptable there is also a few companies developing "future crimes" software. Here's an article in everyone's fave the Guardian.

Can't really think of a reason I should see that as an issue.

Quite impressive, but I'm not too bothered by it.

They will be able to predict that I Valet cars all over Yorkshire 6 days a week and take pictures for the Facebook business page.

Occasionally go biking in various locations, and some of my mates have cats and kids.

There's a difference between being aware of something and worried by it that's possibly beyond you.

😆 ok

I guess, from reading between the insults, and looking briefly over the article you've posted, that some people fear that they have more to lose than others..

I don't think I'd be able to enjoy a fully rounded and open minded life experience if I felt I needed to be [i]that[/i] paranoid about who I associated myself with socially..

Can you be found guilty purely by association..?
Surely only if there is enough evidence to indicate that not only do you occasionally 'like' an alleged wrong 'uns status update, or argue philosophy online with them, or occasionally meet for a game of darts and a pint.. but also that you have participated in criminal activity with that person..?

Am I being naive or are you being paranoid..?

I suppose that in some jobs maybe people feel they are obliged to conduct their lives with a certain level of defensive social insecurity.. But as a rehabilitated character, it's up to me really to be able to defend my actions and associations, and as long as I have personal integrity I don't believe that I should have to limit my experience or live in fear of the judgement of others..

meh..

I'm squeaky clean these days but have had a very chequered history..

I think that unless you're up to no good, or at the very least doing stuff that you're ashamed of, then what have you really got to fear from data mining..?

Is this to avoid some sort of dark future conspiracy, or are you just worried about your granny finding out what you're tossing off to..?

I have two laptops 😉

I wonder how easy the grumpy neighbours wifi would be to hack

having just re read the article, it's not even that is it?

It's just people guessing where you're going or what you might want to buy..

Well.. I'm going to the shops, or the pub, or the woods for a ride, or taking my kids to the park, or even attending a protest march or an illegal rave.. and I'm going to buy stuff that I need or want

but you knew that anyway surely..?

You're right Ian.. this thing is way above my head 😕