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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/23011804
Ok so the US of A has classed obesity as a disease , thereby making a staggering 1/3 of their population ill.
Personally I am unsure. It is in the realms of addiction where the person clearly has a problem but they also have a relatively easy cure.
That said many of us are able to eat without an issue, drink without being alcoholics etc so is their a genetic reason or is it just lack of self control?
So over to the the STW massive [ see what I did there] is obesity an illness?
I do worry about classing it as a disease.
It takes the onus for providing a cure away from the 'sufferer' and makes them look for a medical solution.
No, it's a result of gluttony.
No.
It's a survival trait.
Not a useful one in the western world at the moment. But that could all change.
It is in the realms of addiction where the person clearly has a problem but they also have a relatively easy cure.
I think it is an addication rather than a disease, but I think if it was that easy to cure, we wouldn't be in the mess we are now with all sorts of addictions.
been happening in psychological diseases for a while
It has also been alleged that the way the categories of the DSM are structured, as well as the substantial expansion of the number of categories, are representative of an increasing medicalization of human nature, which may be attributed to disease mongering by psychiatrists and pharmaceutical companies, the power and influence of the latter having grown dramatically in recent decades.
if you classify such a condition as being a fat ****er as a disease then it leaves it open for the drug companies to "invent" a pill/treatment (solution?) for the problem thus making money for themselves without attempting to sort the underlying problem of folk simply eating too much, just stop lifting those burgers with your podgy little fingers would be a start.
I'm sure there are some cases where a disease [i]causes[/i] the obesity. But obesity itself is obviously not a disease.
It Depends. With some folks I reckon it's a genuine mental illness. With others, it's just greed or not even that, just a legitimate lifestyle choice- lots of people are perfectly happy with how they are, and realistic about the results. My mate Stuart's a big unit, ask him why, he'll tell you simply it's because he loves food. If you ask me why I'm covered in bruises, it's because I love riding bikes, it's just a side effect. He'd not be happy to be told he has a disease.
But yeah I have known people for whom it's variously tied up in delusion, low self esteem, depression, etc. Maybe in those cases it's a symptom rather than a disease?
[b]disease[/b]
[i]noun /d??zi?z/[/i]
[u]Definition[/u]
B1 [C or U] (an) illness of people, animals, plants, etc., caused by infection or a failure of health rather than by an accident.
Entirely depends on your definition. Wiki covers all bases:
[i]It is often construed as a medical condition associated with specific symptoms and signs.[1] It may be caused by factors originally from an external source, such as infectious disease, or it may be caused by internal dysfunctions, such as autoimmune diseases. In humans, [b]"disease" is often used more broadly to refer to any condition that causes pain, dysfunction, distress, social problems, or death to the person afflicted, or similar problems for those in contact with the person. In this broader sense, it sometimes includes injuries, disabilities, disorders, syndromes, infections, isolated symptoms, deviant behaviors,[/b] and atypical variations of structure and function, while in other contexts and for other purposes these may be considered distinguishable categories.[/i]
Not everyone who is obese is guilty of over-eating. Stop being so judgemental. š
Well lung cancer is a disease, smoking isn't.
Diabetes is a disease, drinking fizzy pop isn't.
So I guess obesity is a disease, even if over-eating isn't..?
EDIT: All the above diseases CAN happen without the activities listed alongside.
hmmmm, wonder if US citizen could sue their favored ( š ) fast food outlet for making them ill
if you classify such a condition as being a fat ****er as a disease then it leaves it open for the drug companies to "invent" a pill/treatment (solution?) for the problem thus making money for themselves without attempting to sort the underlying problem of folk simply eating too much, just stop lifting those burgers with your podgy little fingers would be a start.
Think thats out there already have a quick google for miracle weight loss. It's as much an industry as making people fat.
Yes acknowledge the problem and help people but dont give people excuses.
For most, no. For a few, yes.
All the 'obese' people I know serve up huge food portions, eat loads of crisps/chocolate etc, drink lots of beer/wine and do no exercise. Go figure.
In 99% of cases it is not a disease. It's a lifestyle choice.
But yeah I have known people for whom it's variously tied up in delusion, low self esteem, depression, etc. Maybe in those cases it's a symptom rather than a disease?
That's just a weird western perception. Anywhere else in the world being fat means you're rich, not broken.
In 99% of cases it is not a disease. It's a lifestyle choice.
I disagree. If people knew about the rubbish treatment that can be dished out to thyroid disease sufferers in the UK then they wouldn't be so quick to criticise.
[i]Anywhere else in the world being fat means you're rich, not broken. [/i]
There was a radio program about a bloke going to live with a tribe in Ethiopia. He was quite overweight.
When he arrived all the children were taken off into the bush and he didn't see them again for about 3 days.
In the end he found out it was because no one in the tribe could believe he'd be able to find enough calories to make him fat without eating other people.
Not everyone who is obese is guilty of over-eating. Stop being so judgemental.
How else are they consuming more calories than they can burn?
In > Out = Gain weight
Out > In = Loose weight
In = Out = Neither loose nor gain.
Adjusting your diet is the hardest part, and that's where people fail.
It doesn't help that MacD's sponsored the olympics, Coca-Cola sponsored international football, etc...
In 99% of cases it is not a disease. It's a lifestyle choice.I disagree. If people knew about the rubbish treatment that can be dished out to thyroid disease sufferers in the UK then they wouldn't be so quick to criticise.
Perhaps the thyroid sufferers are the 1%
In 99% of cases it is not a disease. It's a lifestyle choice.I disagree. If people knew about the rubbish treatment that can be dished out to thyroid disease sufferers in the UK then they wouldn't be so quick to criticise.
Surely people with thyroid issues are in the 1%, not the 99% that neninja is talking about.
In my own experience, there's plenty of fatties who are obese because they eat crap and lots of it but blame their 'thyroid problems'
Well, I was obese - in NHS speak - at just over 15 stone, about 3 years ago. šÆ The nurse looked ashamed when she told me... cos I was fit, innit.
How else are they consuming more calories than they can burn?
If you're untreated/undermedicated then your metabolism does not work as it should.
Perhaps the thyroid suffers are the 1%
The figure will be higher due to:
If people knew about the rubbish treatment that can be dished out to thyroid disease sufferers in the UK
cinnamon_girl - MemberNot everyone who is obese is guilty of over-eating. Stop being so judgemental.
What is the genuine percentage that aren't, though? It must be miniscule. Perhaps the thyroid sufferers should campaign for healthier eating and that way when they are the only overweight people left they will be more sympathetically treated.
In my own experience, there's plenty of fatties who are obese because they eat crap and lots of it but blame their 'thyroid problems'
It can be easy to recognise thyroid disorder symptoms in others, being a sufferer myself.
I went from size 10 to size 18 with no change in a decent diet.
Is anorexia a disease?
Anorexia and overeating are Just different places on the spectrum of eating disorders surely?
If you're untreated/undermedicated then your metabolism does not work as it should.
No, but you adjust your diet accordingly?
So is this that thing where people aren't allowed to be sexist or racist any more so instead they move to another, more acceptable minority to feel superior to?
5thElefant - MemberThat's just a weird western perception. Anywhere else in the world being fat means you're rich, not broken.
Eh, with respect, what a load of rubbish. Yes without some wealth you can't get obese, but that hardly means that realising obesity can be a symptom of poor mental health is either western or weird.
I don't normally get involved in these arguments as I see a cyclist hobby forum looking down on overweight people as being slightly 'elitist'.
cinnamon_girl this is difficult to say but I really don't think its a sizeable amount. Diabetes is on the increase, so is peoples wait due to lifestyle AND diet.
Its the basics.
I'm overweight. Its not because I have any underlying health issues. I like eating and drinking alcohol whilst driving most places and sitting infront of a TV. Alot on STW are similar (even though we are well-meaning and want to exercise/get fit). Its human nature.
The obesity "epidemic" shares many characteristics with other epidemics, in that it spreads (?) within nations and sub-populations by association. It seems to have started in Arkansas. There is a hypothesis that our psychology & physiology may be modified by an agent such as a virus or viroid (cf scrapie), in the way that toxoplasmosis alters cats behaviour. It's a very slow-spreading disease, if it is one, which changes desire for food and activity.
Or it could be a change in gut bacteria:
[url= http://pipeline.corante.com/archives/2013/01/15/is_obesity_an_infectious_disease.php ]Pipeline[/url]
Rather than disease it should be a mental dissorder...... like a kind of ocd,,,,, must eat too much and not do any form of exercise.... thats just my opinion for the majority of obese people. Apologies to the unfortuneate few people who genuinley have a medical problem.
A large friend of mine announced she had a thyroid problem. It went like this:
"I've got an over-active thyroid"
"Under-active?"
"No, over-active"
"Jesus..."
Same conversation with everyone she told. š
I think it has as much to do with getting people cared for in a broken healthcare system.
classify it as a disease and sudden healthcare insurance companies have to help educate and look after their customers, rather than just say client lifestyle"
Is how I understand the thinking behind the move.
As far as I'm concerned, obesity itself isn't a disease, it's a symptom of something else be it thyroid problems, mental health problems or just general laziness and over eating.
But yeah I have known people for whom it's variously tied up in delusion, low self esteem, depression, etc. Maybe in those cases it's a symptom rather than a disease?
+1
There are likely to be a number of factors that cause the condition. In some cases, it may well be a physical deficiency, overall my suspicions lie with sedentary lifestyle, poor diet, processed food stuffs and most importantly, the state of mind and an internal dis-ease with oneself and one's place in the world.
When I think back to my childhood in the 70's, there were very few overweight kids at my school's, compared to the number that seem to be waddling about now. Similarly, there very few overweight adults in comparison then too. Unless of course the popularity of mobility scooters has mean't they now get out more.
How much of it is down to a 'victim' mentality?
I think it has as much to do with getting people cared for in a broken healthcare system.classify it as a disease and sudden healthcare insurance companies have to help educate and look after their customers, rather than just say client lifestyle"
Is how I understand the thinking behind the move.
Or perhaps in the US, the pharmaceutical companies can sell "anti-obese pills"
After all, who donates large contributions towards political campaigns?
Is obesity really a disease?
NO
No, but you adjust your diet accordingly?
One of the symptoms is loss of appetite, I ate very little. My body is swollen with excess fluid.
cinnamon_girl this is difficult to say but I really don't think its a sizeable amount. Diabetes is on the increase, so is peoples wait due to lifestyle AND diet.
I've seen the figure of 2% of the population having a thyroid disorder. Many people are fine with the right meds. I have an uncommon type and self-medicate with drugs I buy from outside the UK. Despite a family history, I was not listened to by GPs.
No.
It's a symptom of an over active pie and beer arm.
Being an obese person myself who until only last week did nothing about it, I can say (for me) that lifestyle choices play a huge role in determine your size.
From a young age I've always been heavier than my peers. Always ate properly ie fresh chicken/rice/pasta/veg/fish etc but I have always eaten larger portions as I was always riding/swimming/boxing/Thai boxing/playing footy. I also did a lot of heavy lifting in the gym.
My downfall came with a change of job (gym instructor>bus/lorry driver) which led to long periods of being stationary but also still having the mindset that I needed large portions of food. This carried on even though my excercise became less and less. I realised that I was getting bigger and bigger but didn't really worry about it as I always used the excuse that I ate well so was still relatively fit. Anyway. Fast forward to last week, I went into town with the wife and youngest daughter and spotted myself in a shop window. Reality hit home. I was horrified to be honest. When I got home I weighed myself(last time I was 25st) and the scales read a whopping 27 1/2 stone or 173.5kg.
I immediately cut my bowl of Alpen out for breakfast
Also cut out my 2 ham salad rolls out that I usually ate for lunch and have cut my dinners down to smaller portions whilst stopping the intake of pasta completely.
Instead, I've taken up a plan from herbalife which replaces breakfast and dinner with shakes and small snacks in between( which I'd never had before so feels strange). This feels like I'm eating more but calorific intake is drastically down on before.
From being 27 1/2 st last Sunday night when I started to Sunday just gone I've lost 6 pounds without the chance for much excercise (work)
My aim is to drop to 17st initially and then see what I can do from there.
Just my 2p
Regards
Gary
I find it slightly uncomfortable to criticise people for a unhealthy sedentary lifestyle when most jobs are office based, and given the economy isn't particular great at the moment, lots of people are forced into longer commutes just to find work (this happened to me, cycling to work replaced by driving). Then with what little time people do have left they've got to shop/feed a family on a limited budget. I'm not that surprised many people turn to processed foods. Even stuff that looks healthy often has loads of fat/salt hidden in it. Every attempt by the government to make labelling clearer is blocked by the food industry lobbyists.
The "obese" label kicks in relatively quickly too, in fact, i'm technically obese according to this - http://www.nhs.uk/tools/pages/healthyweightcalculator.aspx - so this isn't the huge super fatties you see being cut out of their own houses.
I think its a symptom of modern lifestyle for most people.
Good luck, Gary... let us know how you get on.
How much of it is down to a 'victim' mentality?
I would say this is a complex subject and there are no definitive answers. Much of the blame should be with the food companies for selling products with excess sugar/fat/whatever with the resulting 'addictions'.
The bigger picture also needs to be looked at, for example, endocrine disruptors.
transporter13 - much respect for your achievements and wish you good luck.
I am 17 stone or more. I ride at least 100 kilometers every week on lovely trails, but I love food. I don't drink or smoke. Like Gary, I eat healthy food.
I constantly feel under threat due to opinionated, rude and ill informed numpties like Xiphon. I am happy you feel so secure in your existence.
For anybody else that took offence by his ridiculous statements, if like me you know what you want to achieve and it's hard, my message is this
Not being slim does not make us bad people.
Xiphon, I don't wish you anything but happiness, but I do hope you wake up to the fact that we are all different and whilst you are entitled to your opinions, I call you what you are:
A Troll
AndyRT - agreed, well said.
I find it pretty difficult to post on this thread but I will continue to attempt to educate people concerning thyroid disorders. After all, I've also been educating GPs to dispel their belief that I'm a fat moaning menopausal woman. š
OK, I'll shut up now. š
I reckon STW obesity threads are an addiction.
transporter13
Good luck Gary!
I have a friend who ballooned to 26st about 2 years ago (Officer on a cruise ship - too easy to eat 3 cooked meals a day!) - now he's 13 stone (and fit as a fiddle). Similar to yourself, he looked at his reflection and was quite shocked...
Apparently it was the longest two years of this life!
Keep your chin(s) up š
Obesity is no more a disease than having a low I.Q. In the vast majority of cases is the result of eating too much and moving too little. Anyone who disputes this needs to look at the facts and statistics.
Anyone who disputes this needs to look at the facts and statistics.
I dunno, man, I heard that 74% of Internet arguments use too many facts and statistics.
disĀ·ease
/di?z?z/
Noun
1. A disorder of structure or function in a human, animal, or plant, esp. one that produces specific signs or symptoms or that affects a...
2. A particular quality, habit, or disposition regarded as adversely affecting a person or group of people.
Like andyrt. I don't smoke or drink. But I do agree with xiphon in that if you eat too much regardless of food type and don't excercise then you will be bigger than necessary.
Genetic makeup could account for some but with no experience I can't say.
Camo 16. Cheers bud. Hopefully it won't be down to luck but instead me making sure I want it enough not to get bored of doing it.
Not everyone who is obese is guilty of over-eating. Stop being so judgemental.
They are guilty of either eating the wrong things or over eating.
How else are they consuming more calories than they can burn?In > Out = Gain weight
Out > In = Loose weight
In = Out = Neither loose nor gain.
This sounds great but is wrong. It's about what you eat more than how much.
Two examples:
1. Imagine one person who's diet is 2000 cals a day of table sugar and a second who's diet is a mix of vegetables, meat, eggs, fish and healthy fats, again 2000 calories. There body composition and health will be very different after a month.
2. [url= http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/sam-feltham/my-21-day-5000-calorie-challenge_b_3303439.html ]This guy is doing a challenge where he's eating in excess of 5000 calories a day to prove it's about what not how much[/url]
Sorry, but once you start putting up equations something has to be done!
On the origial point. I guess it is a disease because it's something that's wrong with your body with defined symptoms. It slighty sticks in the throat because of how it's self caused in the vast majority of cases and the inference that if it's a disease then medicine should be used to treat it.
Very easily treated with lifestyle changes. Unfortunately a lot of the embedded knowledge in the medical sector and outside is a bit out of skew - see above!
Camo 16. Cheers bud. Hopefully it won't be down to luck but instead me making sure I want it enough not to get bored of doing it.
Positive vibes...
When you're super buff, can you please post a picture of yourself in some enormous trousers? š
Seriously, I wish you well. Sounds like your head is in the right place.
Never seen a northerner pat his belly and proudly say "all bought and paid for"?That's just a weird western perception. Anywhere else in the world being fat means you're rich, not broken.
This is true. You could eat nothing but healthy food, but if you eat more than your body needs you'll still be fat. I also think people often over-emphasise exercise/activity whereas IMO diet (quality & quantity) is by far the biggest factor.But I do agree with xiphon in that if you eat too much regardless of food type and don't excercise then you will be bigger than necessary.
@transporter13: my advice would be to search for iDave diet threads (contentious issue alert!). For a chap of your size the weight will just fall off, and that will be all the motivation you need to keep going. It worked for me (lost 3 stone in 4 months). Good luck.
I've seen the figure of 2% of the population having a thyroid disorder. Many people are fine with the right meds. I have an uncommon type and self-medicate with drugs I buy from outside the UK. Despite a family history, I was not listened to by GPs.
I appreciate that for you this is a big issue but you seem to have found the source of your issue (even if self medicating from dodgy imported drugs will sound like twaddle to most of us).
But at a population level 2% or even 5% is very low. Its not a very helpful message to get out to people that they may be overweight because of some mysterious condition when the overwhelming probability is that they are just eating too much and exercising too little.
Fat people need to eat less. End of.
If after doing that they aren't losing weight then other options should be looked at, but the overwhelming probability is that they eat too much. And even when they say they have cut down the overwhelming probability is that they still eat too much, but are just unaware of what they are eating or blatanly lying.
or blatanly lying.
Fat people are liars !
So we are just lazy liars.
Nice.
[i]Fat[/i] lazy liars.
Ah yes, I forgot that bit.
or blatanly lying.
Fat people are liars !
I think the "or" means that this applies to some people not all people.
Fairly inflammatory remark but probably got the reaction he was looking for.
So we are just lazy liars.
Yep - All of you!
Of course not all fat people are liars, that isn't what I said.
But >=95% of fat people are fat because they eat too much. <95% of fat people will admit this.
thread needs mor Molgrips
this applies to some people not all people.
Well clearly not everyone is a fat liar.
Ernie. I resent that remark
I don't lie
I am š
thread needs mor Molgrips
Don't panic, here I am š
Our bodies respond differently to different stimuli. Just look at that congenitally unfit thread from yesterday. It seems to be perfectly fine to have a body that won't respond to exercise, but if you have one that tends to gain fat more easily you get derided as a lazy pathetic slob.
We all know people who eat loads and are very skinny. We all know fat people. Some of those fat people will be eating a lot more than others. If you do a bit of biking and eat normally, and are skinny, you congratulate yourself on maintaining your weight. I do a bit of biking (often more than a bit) and I eat normally, and I weigh 14st at 5'11"
It really galls to be lectured on being a fat weak minded slob by you lot, when I go to the canteen at work for my unsweetened coffee and there are skinny people who do less exercise than me popping muffins and crisps.
Most people can get fat if they pig out, and skinny if they train, but how readily that change occurs varies massively. My sister for instance pigged out and drank a lot before she was 30 without any exercise, she gained maybe a stone of extra weight in all that time, and lost it when she settled down. Doing the same thing causes some people to become obese.
so therefore people need to be able to modify their eating based on their own ability to deal with food.
it's about education, not medication.
EDIT: there's also an age consideration here - people need to reduce their calorie intake as they get older, their physiology changes and they become less active. the opposite tends to happen and people eat more as they get older.
It's also about other factors...stress, depression, anxiety...all triggers for eating for some of us.
What gets me is that I hate rubbish food... But I travel a lot. Show me where you can get away from cheap nasty food!
I don't crave cheese of sugar...of burgers or pizza or any other stuff, but on a normal motorway services it's all the choice your given.
I choose to wait until I get home or wait until I'm near a supermarket, but surely healthier food could be offered????
it's about education, not medication.
This is a branch of medecine that is so often under exploited. Not surprisingly considering the lack of profits GSK and Pfizer can (or can't rather) make out of it.
Behaviour change and education are the two major stumbling blocks to our maintaining our current lifestyles.
Yep. But self denial is pretty difficult on a permanent basis. Especially when the link between food, pleasure and satisfaction is so deeply hard-wired into our brains.
Some people need only deny themselves that afternoon cake or a second helping of pudding; some people don't need to deny anything, and some have to take more drastic steps like cutting out all sugar and starch.
If only people would stopped making really nice pies, then I'd be fine. Instead, they keep doing things like this...
[img] 
[/img]
Its almost like they want me to be a porker. The monsters!!!! š
I went from size 10 to size 18 with no change in a decent diet.
With all due respect, as I know you've bad huge problems but why on earth do you have to self-medicate. Surely if they have now identified the problem, you should be treated within he NHS. Sorry if I missed part of he saga but I'm genuinely interested as my Mother is borderline under-active thyroid.
fwiw I think that calling it a disease is disastrous and is only going to make a lot of people, from gastric band surgeons down to quack dieticians, a lot of money. Will anyone be able to afford medical insurance in The States if treatment becomes commonplace (I imagine the insurance companies will have a no-treatment clause pretty sharpish)
Like a few posters above, I believe the vast majority of overweight people are not guilty of anything other than enjoying their food WAY too much. No excuses really and I speak as someone who by NHS criteria is obese.
What is needed is a major shift in how Western society, USA and UK particularly, view food and exercise. It needs a major shift in what is 'the norm', for both food and alcohol consumption.
human creatures are addicted to sugars.
it was a survival trait.
western society has lots of cheap food easily available.
addicts with easy supply.
disease? well the clasification as a disease is understandable but its a survival gene we all carry, we pass it on to our kids, I dont think its a disease but its certainly a plague in western society. š
There's some evidence that the way we make our food makes the problem far worse. Things like high fructose corn syrup being included in loads of foods in the US. Yes, people still over-eat, but it seems the consequences could be made worse by certain things.