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Last week we rescued a 7 year old westie.
His owner was in palliative care and his neighbours who were looking after him couldn't cope.
He's a lovely little dog, really well natured and he has settled straight in.
He started showing that he had an ear infection, rubbing on the floor and scratching at it.
Took him to the vets, they had a look, took a swab and said they needed to have a look under the microscope.
They came back and said it was a type of infection that needed lab analysis to identify the correct antibiotics to control it and they had nothing in stock that would do the job.
So £230 later, I have some steroids and ear drops and I waiting on the lab results before I have to go and pay for the antibiotics.
I feel that they are taking the piss a bit and have overly complicated the treatment.
Anyone on here had similar?
Anyone think I have been "had"?
Have you never dealt with a vet before? They're very expensive!
Hard to tell, but if my vet said something like that, I'd take Bella to a vet dermatologist who does that testing on site.
In fact, that's exactly what we did about 18 months ago. Dermvet in Leicester. Bit of a day out for us all as not local. Think of your vet as a doggy GP and don't be afraid to go to specialists. Worked out cheaper in the long run and addressed the cause rather than the symptoms.
Seems pretty normal to be honest. Wait till it's something serious, we had a £4k bill for one cat!
I feel that they are taking the piss a bit and have overly complicated the treatment.
I think there is an element of that, they don't want to miss something and then have you sue them down the line, so always do all tests possible. Generally I just say, lets try the steroid cream for a week and if that doesn't work, we'll run more tests then...
One of our cats just had a sore on his arm he kept biting, steroid cream and a cone of shame for four days and all fixed. £90 IIRC.
That doesn't sound totally out there, but you may wish to talk to other dog owners about local vets and see which are regarded as reasonably priced.
I'm lucky there's a local mobile vet who does my whippet and is considerably cheaper than the vet he used to go to. And she's a whippet specialist of sorts.
We have a lab with floppy ears and gets the odd infection and previously had mites. The vets just prescribed a antibiotic ear drops that did the job. They were expensive for a small bottle and consultation (£90) but not to the level of your vet. But they may be overly cautious too. In which case just say that you'll monitor it and bring him back.
Have a feeling some want to wrack up the bills to make a nice insurance claim.
sounds about right.
My cat came home with a huge abscess the size of a pound coin about 5mm from her arse a few years ago. Bengal Cat.
Vet had to lance it. That ended up a few hundred quid, with the pain killers, antibiotics, repeat visits etc.
Having had 2 westies previously it will not be your last visit to vet.
Westies do suffer from skin/ear problems, have you looked at insurance or self insurance. Archie lived until he was almost 18.
My cat came home with a huge abscess the size of a pound coin about 5mm from her arse a few years ago. Bengal Cat.
Vet had to lance it. That ended up a few hundred quid, with the pain killers, antibiotics, repeat visits etc.
I take the view that all vet's prices are inflated in order to provide danger pay for whenever they need to do something to a cat.
Probably not, but it does sounds as if they're being a bit over-cautious.
Think of your vet as a doggy GP and don’t be afraid to go to specialists.
GPs are specialists.
If I walk out of the vets with a three figure bill then I consider that a win 🙁
Our dog used to have a monthly injection for his arthritis, it was £70 a pop. YMMV but £230 doesn't sound a rip off for what they did.
They would be irresponsible to hand out antibiotics if they are not going to work, hence the lab tests. Antibiotic resistance is a ticking time bomb of very bad things to come, and just chucking antibiotics at a problem is only going to hasten the bad things.
I'd be very very suspicious of anyone claiming to speciate bacteria on the spot as well as it usually requires overnight culturing to grow up the bugs properly before any testing can even be started (to ensure that the sample is just one species of bug and not contaminated). You can check for the presence of Staph aureus really quickly, but that might just be there anyway as a contaminant and not the cause of the problem.
I do some bacterial speciation at work and am only really confident in a result if I use gene sequencing. That takes a few days in the lab here to prepare the DNA which then gets sent to Germany which takes another couple of days.
Hence the cost...
Sorry for any offence to GPs, none was intended.
What I mean, is don't be afraid to seek out specialists like physio, dental or dermatologists for your dog. It can sometimes work out cheaper and better for the pet.
There is also breed variations that some vets are more aware of than others. I think there's a particular anesthetic not well suited to greyhounds for example.
Which vet you use might also be influenced by your routine care approach . For example, do you regularly worm, or have regular worm counts done and only treat what you find? Do you boost vaccinations every year or titre test?
Some vets are more on board with none conventional methods than others.
End of life can be another thing to consider. Some, but not all, will make a house call for that very last visit.
The days of the local family vet are over. They all seemed to join large corporate veterinary groups during lockdown. The emphasis these days is not necessarily what is best for the animal but how much they can screw out of the client.
I was harangued a couple of years ago by a receptionist for being "an irresponsible owner" for not having insurance for my old boy Louis, despite his never needing more than routine vacs. Fortunately the soon to be gone vet who gave him his first jabs as a young pup, 16 years earlier, knew better...
In medicine it is fairly standard practice to treat infections empirically, and only culture if they're proving resistant to treatment. This is because culturing is a lengthy process and in most cases doesn't add much useful information.
We do have antibiotics guidance about which ones to use and when.
Sounds like an inexperienced vet to me.
Our dog has ear lurgy and just gets a cream or some drops every now and again.
Wait until paying for healthcare...
The new thing seems to be charging customers a subscription to stay on their books, for which they get a few jabs and flea treatments.
I wonder if the vetting business has been through the same Covid boom and bust cycle as the bike industry?
We've had 50 cats through our doors over the past decade, for various lengths of time. We mostly aren't paying the vet bills (the vast majority are fosters!) but we've had a few bills for our own that are larger than that. Not often, mind. For the most part, they have been young and therefore we aren't often dealing with problems of old age.
In medicine it is fairly standard practice to treat infections empirically, and only culture if they’re proving resistant to treatment. This is because culturing is a lengthy process and in most cases doesn’t add much useful information.
And that's the perfect recipe for creating resistant strains, which is why there's a strong pressure to reduce antibiotic use in human and veterinary medecine. I've worked in drug resistance research for over twenty years and the above is frankly irresponsible given what we now know.
Sister just got hit by £90 bill for the dog's ear infection, but didn't go with 'testing' - drops only, and the dog is much happier, although sister much lighter in her pocket for a quick visit and some 'drops'.
I've binned off our local vets after the Vet retired and the practice was bought out by a corporate entity - customer service dived. They wouldn't supply the specific cat flu vax that one of our cats had been given for the last five years (he has cat flu) - I was paying £15 a month for a checkup/vax plan. All the details were on his records, was told I'd have to come back and see a locum. Cancelled policy and just take him to a Vet's 4 Pets where our other three cats are on Vax for like plans, and we just Pay as we go for him (the others are insured).
yes, Private Equity are buying all the small vets and rolling them up into bigger companies.
https://www.ft.com/content/9a825fe8-8ea5-4ef3-84b7-2529bfe5ffed
The situation in the OP is exactly what my GP did when I had an infection elsewhere earlier this year. If GPs are doing it (and I'm not sure what their charging structure is to the NHS) then it doesn't seem unreasonable for a vet to do the same.
@mtnboarder - I'm sure your view on this is well-informed, but it's only one aspect of a bigger picture, including opportunity cost when resources are limited.
Practically speaking, empirical treatment isn't going away any time soon.
Our dog used to have a monthly injection for his arthritis, it was £70 a pop
That injection cost Pfizer (Zoetis) well over a billion dollars in development and they had nothing in humans to show for it at the end! The proposed cost of the same human treatment was about 50x the cost. You should consider it a bargain!!! It wasn’t really aimed at dogs and cats.
if you’re interested, it’s an NGF antibody. The human form, tanezumab could not be dosed high enough due to some rare safety issues (rapid osteoarthritis progression). It ended up at a dose that looked like ibuprofen. The dog version isn’t such an issue (for dogs). That might be because the trials were very small or the dogs couldn’t fill in the patient questionnaires 😉
Yeah, but, no, but.....
Lots of vets are owned by chains financed vy private equity, so they're having to pay for that 'privilege'
However, find a good vet, even in a chain, and they can become a proper partner in your dog's ongoing care
https://www.vettimes.co.uk/news/cma-launches-vet-sector-probe-amid-pet-owner-fee-concerns/
As above westies are prone to skin and ear sensitivity, my mum had westies when I was growing up.
As above try and work out the cause, takes some doing. My current Dalmatian goes neon pink, first one with skin issues so took him to get ... associated bill of £250 and a injection.....through a long process worked out it was sweet potato causing the problem.
So your bill is not unusual and get some pet insurance ( get third party as well on it in case your dog causes a accident) if you need the vets but try a find the root cause if at all possible.
Practically speaking, empirical treatment isn’t going away any time soon.
I know, and that scares me to be honest!
As for vet costs- I think part of the issue is that people are expecting much more from a vet. Lab tests are simply not the sort of thing that can be done by a traditional family vet, and certainly not at a sensible cost, hence the move to larger vet groups who can share equipment and to a small degree lab staff and equipment. Most of that is outsourced though as its specialist work- even here at a specialist research organisation we outsource a lot of things as its simply not viable to do it in house.
Cost wise, consumables have gone through the roof in recent years- for example pre-Covid we used to pay £5-7 for a box of 50 pairs of examination gloves, those are now closer to £30 across the board.
"No matter how many times i’ve been to the vet, im never not slightly shocked by the bill. "
I was shocked when we took our vet to have a look at our dog 3 or 4 days after an operation. Checked her over. Temperature. Explained what possible issues he was looking for - signs of infection etc. No charge. And it wasn't him that did the op.
I get charged a higher hourly rate by plumbers and mechanics. All told my vet is very reasonable. Doesn't gold plate treatment. Looks for cheaper options.
As an example. My daughters cat needed a heart scan. The vet doesn't have the hi tec scanner required. so he said - I can refer you to the vet school. It will cost XXXX! Or alternatively the condition isn't immediately life threatening. If you wait a few weeks we have a guy that comes with a mobile scanner and does a batch of scans on the one day. Cost will be X.
I'm sure I'm not the only one who's been thinking of it, so here's that "lab test" pic:
Yes, I know it's a golden retriever, but I've got work to do here.
Having had 2 westies previously it will not be your last visit to vet.
Westies do suffer from skin/ear problems
This!
We're looking after the MIL's 13yr old at the moment, skin is itchy to the extent she's doing damage scratching herself. We took her to the vets, £150 for a once a month injection she'll need. Also suffering with her ears (again) but MIL just sent some stuff from Amazon that has worked in the past. This is all on top of the daily insulin injections she needs
Worth remembering what you've been given and then looking for it online in future. Much much cheaper.
My vet told me to get doggy antidepressants online, they were still something like £70/month.
So he's getting lifestyle adjustments instead (and he does seem to be a bit better if anyone's concerned).
My cat came home with a huge abscess the size of a pound coin about 5mm from her arse a few years ago. Bengal Cat.
Just be pleased it didn’t need a cat scan.
Vets are expensive but that’s because it’s expensive to train, run a practice and make a profit.
If you want to try alternative then I use Smelly Stuff for Ears, it worked better than antibiotics on my last border. It’s good for the odd time they get irritation to the ears.
Also worth doing is cutting out chicken and gluten as it can cause them ear problems.
End of life can be another thing to consider. Some, but not all, will make a house call for that very last visit.<br /><br />
Hold up, I don’t think it’s that serious!
OP keep your fingers crossed the results don't come back as Pseudomonas infection as this can be very difficult and expensive to treat. Hitting it with the correct treatment (ie based on culture and checking for antibiotic resistance) first time gives you the best chance of a cure. The actions your vet has taken are the necessary steps to give you that best chance!
Be honest about your ability to finance what may be a recurrent problem and may be part of more generalised skin issues which are very common in the breed. As a pre-existing condition you are unlikely to get this covered under pet insurance!
Good luck!
Having had 2 westies previously it will not be your last visit to vet.
This is our third.
We were lucky with our over 2, never had any serious allergy issues.
We did watch their diets and stuff.
Apart from his ear infection he's in very good condition.
In short, probably not. Most of it is just what it costs - an insight into what GP appointments would be like if there was no NHS.
I do recommend pet insurance though, my last cat racked up over £20k in vet bills in 10 years.
I've never needed a test for an ear infection. They give me this weird yellow stuff and otodine (you can buy elsewhere without a prescription). Although 230 for what you've had so far is about right.
Dogs are expensive, even with insurance. My rescue has averaged ~410 per month (including daycare) for the last 5 years. Mine is currently with the vets because an eye-ulcer (she poked herself in the eye sniffing a bush) isn't healing. I'd be bankrupt without the insurance.
Problem is multi fold. The dog can't tell you what's wrong so vet looks at symptoms and tries to get ahead of the possibilities there may be many causes so they might be trying to get them all.
Medication is expensive we just don't realize it because human medication is "free" to us. Animal medicine not so, try getting an ear infection in America and see where the bills take you.
It's not the cost of the various things that feels like a rip off. I understand lab tests etc will cost.
It's more that I'm wondering if such a complicated procedure is necessary for an infected ear?
Will the lab tests actually help identify the most suitable antibiotic?
Could they not just prescribe doggy penicillin or whatever the go to is at the moment?
Could they not just prescribe doggy penicillin or whatever the go to is at the moment?
My experience with 3 different vets is that the chain vets will push for the works where as the independent vet just seems to know what to do.
My latest vet was a breath of fresh air compare to my last ones. A lot of experience there whereas the previous ones seemed to have a rotating door of people straight from vetinary school.
@jonnouk - the chain vets will almost inevitably be performance managed for how much they're upselling.
That price seems on the high side to me but not extortionate. This being STW I'm surprised we haven't seen more comments from vets.
The new thing seems to be charging customers a subscription to stay on their books, for which they get a few jabs and flea treatments.
My local vets really wanted me on PetPlan. Given that we have indoor cats, it seemed cost-effective for the first 12 months with the kittens then after that not so much.
Mind you, they don't actually have any vets at the moment so... 🤷
Took our dog to the vet the other week as his glands were blocked - happens every now and then with him. Literally 10 seconds for the vet to squeeze some gunk out his anal glands and it was done - £20 please. Made a mental note that I should look on youtube of what and where to squeeze and do it myself in future!
Our vet is great, but I baulked at one of the latest bills when they charged me £25 for a sodding bandage. I politely requested that if they are going to charge that much, I'll redo the bandage myself.
In answer the the OP, no it seems like it’s is always more than you expect it to be. Our dog cut its back leg recently, requiring 5 stitches. I guessed it would cost in the region of £400 max. As it was a straight forward gash. Unfortunately the final bill came to £1200. Made my eyes water!
£100 just to make an appointment for 10 minutes with the vet in Central Scotland, before tablets or treatment..
Literally 10 seconds for the vet to squeeze some gunk out his anal glands and it was done – £20 please
Stick your finger up a few dogs' bums an hour and you'd be quids in.
£100 just to make an appointment for 10 minutes
Have you cross-shopped that? Does seem unusually high.
GPs are specialists.
GP =General Practitioner = not a specialist.
So £230 later, I have some steroids and ear drops and I waiting on the lab results before I have to go and pay for the antibiotics.
Sounds like the going rate !!!
We had our Westie for 17 years ,unfortunately skin and allergy problems are common in the breed.
We have some sort of insurance for our vet bills, it's all handled through the vets. The excess is £100, and it seems that EVERYTHING costs £96.
Seed in his paw needs removing, £96. Antibiotics, £96, ibuprofen and a consultation, £96.
That seemed a bit of a scam to me, so £230 I would have pushed to try taking whatever was odds on to work rather than doing a load of tests
Our dog cut its back leg recently, requiring 5 stitches. I guessed it would cost in the region of £400 max. As it was a straight forward gash. Unfortunately the final bill came to £1200. Made my eyes water!
Did they sedate (not local anasthetic)? IME, as soon as sedation is mentioned be prepared for a hefty bill.
Yes, unfortunately full anaesthetic, which was £350 within the overall bill.
I would think my vet would have prescribed a broad spectrum antibiotic and said "come back if that doesn't work" (fears about antibiotic resistance notwithstanding....lets face it, the amount of antibiotics pumped into livestock routinely dwarfs the risk from pet prescriptions)
And as well as the labrador above for the lab test, get a moggy so you can do your own CAT scan.
Nope sounds fair. Vets prices vary wildly across the board. My dogs are roughly £400 each for a dental plus bit more per tooth extraction. I’ve heard of folks quoted 1k just to inspect teeth 🤷♂️
Wait til the little bastard eats a mince pie. Then gets home and promptly eats another.
Atleast when they are I'll you want the better rather than to throttle them.
Also.
PAY
THE
TAX
Come on, rulez is rules. Purchase please.
Whats in a mince pie thats bad for a dog? The tin foil?
I’ve heard of folks quoted 1k just to inspect teeth
I'm guessing that's a general anesthetic & associated support so they can have a proper look & take x-rays etc?
I know mine will 'go mental' and have your finger(s) off if you probe around in his mouth too much, no chance of a proper dental inspection.
He's good as gold but will also go beserk if we try to clip his nails.. we have to muzzle him for that. But a muzzle is no good for a dental inspection.
Whats in a mince pie thats bad for a dog? The tin foil?
Grapes/raisins/currants/sultanas.... pretty toxic for dogs depending on amount consumed/size of dog/individual tollerence.
https://www.webmd.com/pets/dogs/why-dogs-cant-eat-grapes
Top tip from when we had the dog with the thickened ear canal, offer to run samples to the lab. Your time is cheaper than the vet transport.
The dog did need different drops from the usual yellow ones for that infection. She had been allowed to scratch the infected ear so much by a previous owner that she had more or less continuous ear infections until the swabs were analysed.
Stick your finger up a few dogs’ bums an hour and you’d be quids in.
I wasn't watching that closely but it was more a squeezing action near his tail, not sexual assault of a dog. You're thinking of another business idea that sounds more like its more for your gratification than the dogs.
£100 for an appointment before any meds is expensive. One of our dogs is going to the vet for an ear infection this evening. I expect the total bill to be less than £100. In central Scotland. I'll update later.
Our dog had repeated ear infections over the course of 6 months, cost us around £800 in bills before we started claiming on insurance - in the end I think it came to a further £1800 bill?
We now can't claim on any other ear related issues on the insurance for her - cost of which which rose sharply the following year.
We had a cat go into the vets on Christmas Eve (emergency appointment), admitted and came out the day after boxing day for 'palliative care' at home. £2400 insurance bill - that was two years ago and she's still with us. That was a fun Christmas.
the amount of antibiotics pumped into livestock routinely...
Is that a thing in the UK?
I've been vegetarian for a long time so I'm far from being a livestock expert, but it feels like the sort of thing which might be prevalent in the US rather than here?
the amount of antibiotics pumped into livestock routinely…
Is that a thing in the UK?I’ve been vegetarian for a long time so I’m far from being a livestock expert, but it feels like the sort of thing which might be prevalent in the US rather than here?
Not nowadays, basically banned unless for a specific reason-
https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cdp-2023-0012/
Is that a thing in the UK?
It's a global problem.
The real issue are the Chinese pig farmers who wack all of their livestock with huge amounts of antibiotics.
GP =General Practitioner = not a specialist.
They'll be pissed off when they find out that they didn't need to do all that specialist training to be one then. Quite why though, you'd be keen to have say a obstetrician (for instance) treat your diabetes or cardio vascular illness is beyond me...
GP =General Practitioner = not a specialist
@CheesybeanZ = wrong.
We specialize in the community assessment and management of common medical conditions, about which we often know more than our hospital based colleagues because we a) see a different population to them and b) see far more patients than they do.
Dog at vet today with a sore ear. Examined, ear cleaned out. Drops to put in ears. Total £74. Seems reasonable to me. Same day appt as well.