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SUVs are less likely to aqua plane because of the weight. So just like the extra traction in the snow when you do lose control you will crash at a higher speed.
Keeping it on topic with Jaguar...
Their E-Pace SUV is roughly the same weight as their XE saloon.
Their F-Pace SUV is roughly the same weight as their XF saloon.
So where’s this extra weight that’s going to stop me aquaplaning then?
I fear you’re confusing SUVs with 4x4s.
foot down where appropriate and necessary.
It is never necessary unless you are a member of the emergency services. But some people are not very good at organising their lives and then think that the resulting time issues justify fast driving. They are wrong.
How do you over take safely without putting your foot down? Actually, being pedantic, without putting your foot down a little bit how the would you ever get anywhere?
To answer the OP, I think the plethora of choices offered by the modern car industry makes it quite hard to narrow down what your typical twunt will actually drive. There are a few categories that I've observed though.
Young PCP - have job / student loan, will lease!. There is a male and female version of this tribe but they are pretty similar. Girls drive what ever the small car d'jour is. It was the Fiat 500 for a long time (white or one of those horrible pastel shades), but now the Audi A1 is currently in vogue (white with a black roof). If one is behind you at the lights they will appear to be fascinated by their own knees. Can't drive 10 feet without updating social media, "lol nearly crashed while on insta"
The male version is less imaginative in car choice, they drive a 1 series BMW. Not a very powerful one, but they make up for this by ragging it everywhere. The interior smells of McDonalds.
BITD both of these groups would be in whatever shit heap 2nd hand car was cheap to insure- probably something French, just happy to get to their destination, but thanks to the miracle of cheap credit they are now in shiny new cars.
Next the Yummy Mummy's, they have a type of car rather than a specific brand and, you guessed it, it's the SUV. They bring to the roads the exciting combination of being in a hurry, distracted and in a big car. They've seen all the marketing about SUVs being "urban ready" and think this means a new special speed limit applies. I walk my daughter to nursery most mornings and we pass one of those 🙂 / 🙁 speed signs, its mainly women driving SUVs who make it a sad face. Also voted most likely to be idling a clattery diesel engine outside the school gates.
There is a special upper echelon of SUV ****ery that is reserved for 3 models in particular though, the Audi Q7, the Range Rover Sport and the BMW X6
Next up we have the repmobile, they've been on the roads since the dawn of company cars, these days the Vectra, Mondeos and Rovers are long gone and they are now almost exclusively in the rep holy triumvirate of 320d, C220d, and A4 TDI.
These knights of industry are going places fast (87mph to be specific). With roughly 170 of Germany's finest "pferdestarke" at their disposal you'd better not get in their way. They are important people, with ties and everything, they absolutely have to get to that meeting in the industrial park near Basingstoke for 10:30 and if you get in their way they won't have time to stop at Chobham services for a steak bake. Tailgating is an olympic sport with these guys.
Finally the old driver, probably shouldn't be on the road. Passed their driving test shortly after they stopped needing a man with a flag. Likes to pick a speed (between 37 and 41 mph) and stick to it, everywhere. Choice of car is generally something small and Japanese (Yaris, Jazz, Micra) although the Skoda Fabia also seems popular. They are mainly a menace to their own clutch plates but can also cause carnage when they interact with any of the groups above whose driving style isn't really calibrated for dealing with pensioners joining a motorway at 39mph.
All of these groups have one thing in common though, they are all pretty shitty at dealing with cyclists.
How very cliche.
They are important people, with ties and everything
I don't wear a tie, tie's are very old school and are for Sales grads or retiring sales people.
they are all pretty shitty at dealing with cyclists.
As a cyclist myself I beg to differ, and btw I pay road tax - twice - or VED as its known by people not like you.
Cliches exist for a reason.
I don’t wear a tie, tie’s are very old school and are for Sales grads or retiring sales people.
It's a bit odd that this is the bit you have an issue with.
and btw I pay road tax – twice
Well that was apropos of nothing but I'm sure the exchequer thanks you for your contribution
Cliches responding to cliches richmtb. What your posting really is of no help. Its tired and boring generalist nonsense I'm afraid, and you risk categorising people unfairly.
Next up we have the repmobile, they’ve been on the roads since the dawn of company cars, these days the Vectra, Mondeos and Rovers are long gone and they are now almost exclusively in the rep holy triumvirate of 320d, C220d, and A4 TDI.
These knights of industry are going places fast (87mph to be specific). With roughly 170 of Germany’s finest “pferdestarke” at their disposal you’d better not get in their way. They are important people, with ties and everything, they absolutely have to get to that meeting in the industrial park near Basingstoke for 10:30 and if you get in their way they won’t have time to stop at Chobham services for a steak bake. Tailgating is an olympic sport with these guys.
That’s quite funny...more thought to it than mine. I usually class these chaps as paper clip salesmen.
I usually class these chaps as paper clip salesmen.
Paper Clip salesmen fly.
First class.
In special shoes.
Any fule kno dat.
What your posting really is of no help. Its tired and boring generalist nonsense I’m afraid, and you risk categorising people unfairly.
If my light-hearted post on a mountain biking forum has potentially offended any sale reps then I apologise unreservedly.
Sometimes we fail to understand the day-to-day struggles of people in mid range German saloons, maybe we should travel a mile in their shoes before we pass judgment (it won't take long a mile is about 45 seconds at 87mph)
#salesrepslivesmatter
BTW I work in a field sales role for a large IT company, I'm taking the piss out of myself too.
Your post is not specific to sales reps, despite my response focusing on that.
More ground clearance = less chance of aquaplaning. Simple physics based on the amount of force water can impose on the floor of your car when displaced by your tyres. If the water has a greater distance to travel before it interacts with the floor of your car, the force it imposes is less. Unless you put ridiculously wide tyres on of course (BMW X5 anyone?).
I just want to go forth and rule the roads, who cares about anyone else.
Simple physics based on the amount of force water can impose on the floor of your car when displaced by your tyres.
If the water you are driving in is deep enough to apply any force to the floor of your car then its a boat you need not a car. Lewis Hamilton at a wet Silverstone excepted
Apart from some people having had their sense of humour amputated there seem to be a couple of problems with understanding.
https://www.ecenglish.com/learnenglish/lessons/phrasal-verb-put-ones-foot-down/
Aqua planing is nothing to do with water hitting the underside of your car, and everything to do with tyres, speed, ground pressure, and water.
Their E-Pace SUV is roughly the same weight as their XE saloon.
Their F-Pace SUV is roughly the same weight as their XF saloon.
You are partially right there, I was equating SUVs as 4x4 as most are, generally when 2WD drive they get called cross overs.
The average SUV is heavier than the average non-SUV, which was the point I am trying to make. heavier saloons would be less likely to aquaplane than lighter saloons, so yes, if your figures are correct, going on weight alone the aquaplaning resistance will be same however I would expect a saloon to be easier to control if any problems arise due to a lower centre of gravity.
Or even the tyres ability to "shed" water, If the tyre can't get rid of it the tyre loses contact with the road. 🙂
Aygo, Jazz, Yaris in my house. Dull as dull but who really cares.
SUVs are less likely to aqua plane because of the weight
Lolz!
The variables in aquaplaning speed are tyre pressure and tread pattern. Weight not a factor other than when fully loaded it's a little higher tyre pressure than empty.
If it's deep enough to touch the floor then:
a) it's not safe as you don't know what drain covers have been dislodged and
b) the safe speed to transit flood water is walking pace (to avoid hydraulic shock) not anything like aquaplaning speed!
I often see SUVs (and sometimes normal cars) ploughing thru water-makes me wince as the driver is clearly lacking knowledge of how to drive and consideration as to the effects of the wash on the verges and other peoples property, plus throwing bow wash down the engine of the oncoming traffic.
That's why if I have to pass a flooded section, I'll do it on the white line, so oncoming traffic has to stop.
I just can't see the point of an SUV. If you need 4x4, buy a 4x4. If you need a high driving position, get a van. If you need room, get an estate. If you want looks, get something nice looking. The SUV has none of the attributes that people seem to think they represent.
Lolz!
https://www.uniroyal.co.uk/car/knowledge/driving-tips/what-is-aquaplaning
People seem to have missed entirely my meaning. I will take the blame there as it seems to be more than one. There are lots of variables, a car with more tread on its tyres is less likely to aquaplane than one with less etc....
As you say, you wince at the speed SUV drivers enter standing water. That is entirely my point, because their vehicle seems to be 'immune' from aquiplaning (amonst all the other things, snow, kerbs, head on crashes, blah blah etc...) just like in snow they drive faster and faster and when it all goes belly up they are travelling very fast and crash going faster.
A lot of the blame is the marketing which people believe. This morning I heard an ad for a Hilux saying it was the only thing that would save you from the zombie appocalyse. All very funny but some people will think that means it will protect them no mater what, so stuff everyone else because they can do what they like. Did I go off at a tangent there? Sorry. It must have been that Discovery Sport driver last week.
Given 2 identical tyres, the only variable in determining aquaplaning speed is tyre pressure.
Vehicle weight is only a factor if the tyre pressure changes.
Tread and condition will be affect when comparing two non identical tyres.
Edit: failed on formatting!
I agree and a heavier car is less likely to aqua plane than a lighter one. SUVs are on average heavier therefore less likely to aqua plane.
A 2008 Tiguan based on the golf with 1.4 TSi engine has a kerb weight of 1546 kg
A 2008 golf TdI 170 has a kerb weight of 1328kg.
One of the heaviest non SUV on that chassis is around 200kg lighter than the SUV version of that chassis. Specific SUV chassis will be even more so.
Edit: I’ll add for correctly inflated tyres and correct tyre pressures vary for different vehicles
a heavier car is less likely to aqua plane than a lighter one
Depending on tyre pressure. Weight isn't a factor on it's own. An increase in 10psi will increase aquaplaning speed by about 4mph.
Now how much wider are the tyres on the SUV and how do the water clearing abilities of the tyres compare? I suggest a 2CV on new Michelin X is less likely to aquaplane than an X5 on its huge rollers with 3mm.
215-255 for a Tiguan
195-265 for a Golf
If you are worried about aquaplaning buy the cheapest Golf not the most expensive Tiguan.
Now how much wider are the tyres on the SUV and how do the water clearing abilities of the tyres compare? I suggest a 2CV on new Michelin X is less likely to aquaplane than an X5 on its huge rollers with 3mm.
Depends on the tyre pressure.....
Crikey this thread has descended into some prime internet nonsense such as "SUVs are less likely to aqua plane because of the weight."
Factors affecting aquaplaning could be velocity, tyre tread depth, tyre tread design, tyre profile/contact patch area to contact patch boundary ratio, tyre pressure, depth of standing water.
I'm sure its not simple. I think we need a filter on the internet where only qualified professionals can profess.
Yes, yes, yes wade rider, are you saying ground pressure has no bearing on this? The width of SUV tyres does not increase enough to compensate for the extra weight on many SUVs (X5s aside).
Educator, the 2cv the thiner tyres increase the ground pressure, no?
Yes. The 2CV's contact patch is small so the weight/cm2 is high despite the low weight of the car. The tyre is really narrow at 125 and has lots of grooves and sipes to clear water:
Compare that with what you typicaly see on an X5:
https://www.michelin.co.uk/auto/browse-tyres/by-vehicle/bmw/x5/e70-x5-m/2013/4.4%20V8%20bi-turbo%20555/285---35%20R21%20105%20Y%3B325---30%20R21%20108%20Y
I know from experience a 2cv is brilliant in snow because the narrrow tyres cut thru better than wide tyres on normal cars
tj - people in the mountains of Europe of have Fiat pandas and Subaru justys for the same reason.
Educator - maybe there was a lot less problem with aqua planing when all cars had skinnier tyres.
Waderider - I did not have time to finish this morning. I tried to quote but I keep getting logged out.
More weight will provide more force to push the tyre through the water, not hydroplane over it. Therefore weight is an important factor and taken in isolation it can be said heavier cars are less susceptible to to aqua planing. Furthermore as a generalisation heavier cars are less likely to aquaplane. Therefore as the average SUV is heavier than an average saloon etc they are also less likely to aquaplane.
Hello bsim. yes I agree ground pressure has a bearing. I my previous post I mention tyre pressure which is the same factor. You are betraying either a lack of time and patience to digest my post, or a basic misunderstanding of the laws of physics.
I refer you back to my comment regarding a need for a filter on the internet. It is only fair though to say free speech means all should be able to come up with their own hypothesises on the factors affecting aquaplaning; but reasoned discussion falls apart when a correspondent either has no capacity to learn or no capacity to alter position.
Which may be why you repeat yourself.
Waderider
No. More weight means more force so in the context I have put I am correct. I have not said anywhere that no other variables apply.