Is it time we start...
 

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Is it time we start talking about corruption?

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I know that this country has a reputation for being one of the less corrupt countries, but recently I've noticed some really horrific misappropriations of public funds and it's not hard to see whose pockets our money is ending up in (clue: it's not ours). This would, obviously, be undesirable at the best of times but right now, when everyone is struggling to get by, it makes me feel a bit exasperated that we aren't getting more angry about this. Are we so used to having a relatively low level of corruption that we are simply not believing that this country can, in fact, have a problem? And is that what the perpetrators are relying on so that they can continue getting away with it?

Some sources:

Two recent incidents of gross misappropriation of public funds:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/hs2-billion-pound-coverup-cost-files-investigation-skzv2nxwj

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.****/news/article-12658633/amp/HS2-bosses-covered-ballooning-costs-high-speed-rail-line-telling-staff-lie-bid-billions-flowing-project-Probe-launched-allegations.html

https://committees.parliament.uk/committee/127/public-accounts-committee/news/171306/4-billion-of-unusable-ppe-bought-in-first-year-of-pandemic-will-be-burnt-to-generate-power/

https://committees.parliament.uk/committee/127/public-accounts-committee/news/172191/government-failures-to-control-ppe-contracts-could-cost-taxpayers-27-billion/

Some background on the UK's place in the world re corruption

https://www.transparency.org.uk/corruption-and-uk

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_in_the_United_Kingdom#:~:text=Transparency%20International%20defines%20corruption%20as,(%22very%20clean%22).


 
Posted : 28/10/2023 9:54 am
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I'd like to know what happened to the pothole money.


 
Posted : 28/10/2023 9:59 am
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Have a look at Good Law Project. They are trying to tackle it but Sunak has apparently instructed the courts not to accept any legal challenges as it “isn’t in the public interest”.


 
Posted : 28/10/2023 10:19 am
lucasshmucas, jameso, AD and 11 people reacted
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They prefer to call it 'sleaze', or some other word other than corruption, as that might compel the population to try to force the law to do something about it.


 
Posted : 28/10/2023 11:17 am
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Yeah,let's talk about it,then do absolutely nothing.
I have just gone outside (in the rain) to stamp my foot,wave my fist at the clouds.
I also shouted "Damn all you horrible humans that feed off corruption,I send you this curse".
Hope it works. 🙏
On a more serious note,start the challenge in your local community/area,change can come quicker and be more rewarding.


 
Posted : 28/10/2023 11:21 am
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Our local councils just spent £220000 on a short bit of fencing:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-gloucestershire-67217742


 
Posted : 28/10/2023 11:40 am
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When you are able to remove people from the mix, you'll remove corruption, the UK tends to have same issues as most western countries with this problem, hence why we're pretty much average compared to them with the scoring.

Covid was just an absolute nightmare for all, fast paced, no limits, all about the end game style procurement, which means you lose a lot of your balances and checks, you're fighting with other nations to get the same stock, the real bill for Covid was always going to come years later, hopefully a lot of those companies that were carrying out widespread fraud get their comeuppance, but again, with the legal system and speed of justice, i wouldn't hold my breath, HS2 is just the gift that keeps on giving, can't kill it, can't fix it, just watch it slowly eat away the budget and require topping up every so often.

Any way, corruption is a two way street, both public and private, and again, that's down to people being involved in the mix, with all their failings, it does make me laugh that at my job i have vetting that looks at my susceptibility to bribery, never really understood why they look at people financially stressed as being more likely than those who are not, in the cases i've seen in my area of people committing fraud or bribery, they were all pretty well off!


 
Posted : 28/10/2023 11:40 am
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In my job the attempts to regulate and be fair with awarding public money for works to the private sector is so convoluted that we have no time to left to contract manage properly. The procurement process also delivers the same grasping low quality contractors over and over again because there is no working mechanism for excluding them within the procurement regulations.

Its the ministers and senior civil servants in charge of procurement who are the disgrace. Its not corruption though. Its utter incompetence and isolation from the real world, an inability to adapt.


 
Posted : 28/10/2023 11:53 am
bikesandboots, stumpyjon, Andy_B and 7 people reacted
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I know that this country has a reputation for being one of the less corrupt countries

It does?

We had been washing oligarch's ill-gotten gains for a while before Ukraine kicked off.

The wealthy of the UK are rotten to the core merrily hiding dirty money and pilfering the funds plebs go paying as tax.

Of course if you give a few of them a title that suddenly makes it all a bit more "respectable"...


 
Posted : 28/10/2023 12:06 pm
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Another vote for following the Good Law Project - but sounds like their days are numbered as the government invents daily new laws to crush any and everything.

If they Tories win the next election and people aren't fighting in the street then we're well and truly done.


 
Posted : 28/10/2023 12:14 pm
jameso and jameso reacted
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I think we've hit a sweet spot where this level of corruption can go unchecked. The poorer in society have to spend all their time working to put food on the table. The middle class do the same but in the aim of getting a house to ensure future financial stability. Due to the geographical inequalities, social mobility often means moving away from home so young people are losing support from their parents that might give back some free time. There's no slack left in the system for campaigning for things you care about. The people who do go out on the streets get vilified by the press and subsequently legislated against. I think the only possible route out is to vote in better government, get some of that infrastructure and public service back and that will enable people to take a breath and turn away from work for a moment.


 
Posted : 28/10/2023 1:31 pm
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I know that this country has a reputation for being one of the less corrupt countries

It does?

We're currently 18th out of the 180 conutries monitored by Transparency International as part of their Corruption Perception Index. For context, we used to be top ten, had always been top ten as far as I know, and have recently descended to our current, lower, standing which is also the lowest we've ever been. So, as far as this objective measure is concerned at least, the UK is getting considerably more corrupt

https://www.transparency.org.uk/uk-corruption-perceptions-index-2022-score-CPI


 
Posted : 28/10/2023 3:02 pm
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Can I recommend Oliver Bullough’s books ‘Moneyland’ and ‘Butler to the World’? In the first book he argues that the British banking system is inherently corrupt and how easy it is for corrupt governments to legally launder money through it, and in the second how a whole industry has (well, WAS now I suppose) set up to help oligarchs launder their ill gotten gains through property and other deals in the U.K.


 
Posted : 28/10/2023 3:13 pm
frankconway, lucasshmucas, lucasshmucas and 1 people reacted
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You can’t book a driving test without paying a de-facto bribe in most of England. I dread to think where else such corruption is now going unreported.


 
Posted : 28/10/2023 3:38 pm
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That’s interesting, @shermer75. The rapacious Tory government of recent years has definitely taken things to a new level. 


 
Posted : 28/10/2023 3:38 pm
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Covid was just an absolute nightmare for all, fast paced, no limits, all about the end game style procurement, which means you lose a lot of your balances and checks, you’re fighting with other nations to get the same stock ...

Would be more convincing if govt hadn't ignored approaches from established PPE suppliers with stock already on hand, preferring former publicans and bra manufacturers


 
Posted : 28/10/2023 3:40 pm
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I know that this country has a reputation for being one of the less corrupt countries

Maybe it was a while back, but that ship sailed a long time ago. It’s just another example in this country of some sepia-tinted myth bearing no resemblance to the actual reality.

This country has been rotten to the core for years now. This lot don’t even make even the most half-arsed attempt to even cover it up any more


 
Posted : 28/10/2023 4:05 pm
chrismac and chrismac reacted
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What @Waderider said ^^.

Public sector procurement has to jump through a dozen hoops of "fairness" and "transparency" in awarding anything from buying a batch of office stationary to building a skyscraper.

If you select anything other than the lowest quote, it needs justifying up a dozen tiers of management, each one terrified that their boss is going to come down on them for daring to procure a better product that cost 5% more than the lowest common denominator product.

Everything is done on the cheap, each layer wants its cut so you end up with a shit product built to a cost rather than an outcome and then have to spend ££££ more over the next few years fixing all the shit things about said product.

It's not corruption as such (well, most of it isn't). It's utter incompetence and a refusal to look past cost:benefit analysis tables.


 
Posted : 28/10/2023 4:12 pm
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Waderider
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Its the ministers and senior civil servants in charge of procurement who are the disgrace. Its not corruption though. Its utter incompetence

My gut feeling is that it's not, not really. In my professional field I got a good look at how fantastic this government was at failing completely in ways that meant they got the result they wanted, especially when it was a result that would have been really difficult or unpopular to do it succesfully.

So what's the goal? If it's about funnelling cash to a handful of contractors, then who cares if the project succeeds or not, or the budget is right? If it's about big headlines for rolling news, likewise who cares if the PPE is worthless and the hospitals still have dangerous shortfalls.


 
Posted : 28/10/2023 4:31 pm
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Don't just follow Good Law Project, set up a direct debit to support them.

It's pobably one of the more effective ways we can have some impact against some of the govt/business goings on that rarely get challenged, but should.


 
Posted : 28/10/2023 6:00 pm
MoreCashThanDash, mrchrispy, mrchrispy and 1 people reacted
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Our local councils just spent £220000 on a short bit of fencing:

Pffft.

Highland council used active travel money to resurface the car park at thier own HQ...


 
Posted : 28/10/2023 6:06 pm
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Highland council used active travel money to resurface the car park at thier own HQ…

Because they were actively travelling across it.
Obviously.


 
Posted : 28/10/2023 6:37 pm
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If you select anything other than the lowest quote, it needs justifying up a dozen tiers of management, each one terrified that their boss is going to come down on them for daring to procure a better product that cost 5% more than the lowest common denominator product.

Everything is done on the cheap, each layer wants its cut so you end up with a shit product built to a cost rather than an outcome and then have to spend ££££ more over the next few years fixing all the shit things about said product.

Yeah, and you also have the challenges from the losing bidders, stuff i've done over the years, i've seen so many bidders who have absolutely no ability to deliver the requirement, but bid in the hope they can bluff it, or challenge and get some money. Anyone working the tenders also can't use their own beliefs within it, i.e. if you've worked with a bidder and think they're competent, that doesn't matter, it's what is in their proposal that is taken into account, they make an error, or have someone who is rubbish write it, they lose, if another company without the same ability get someone good to write it with a bit of fluffing and your markings can favour the less abled companies.

As stated though, Covid and a few others times where the checks and balances are removed is where it turns into a complete nightmare, which only ever gets noticed years later and it's all about the blame game, rather than stopping it happening again.


 
Posted : 28/10/2023 7:20 pm
bikesandboots, chrismac, chrismac and 1 people reacted
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You can’t book a driving test without paying a de-facto bribe in most of England. I dread to think where else such corruption is now going unreported.

Now that's one I've never heard before, despite having two kids, and all their mates, learning to drive for the last 3 years.

Last time it was discussed, being logged on at 6am on a Monday morning when tne next tests are released was the solution.


 
Posted : 28/10/2023 7:43 pm
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The one going on round here is the shenanigans round the Tees Freeport.
Over £450 million spent on cleaning up the Redcar steel works site and the land is now 90% owned by private companies (10% by the public purse) yet the company that now owns it made £100 million(ish) from selling the scrap metal that was on the site (mainly in old structures).
The government response is to not allow the NAO to investigate alledged corruption but have a lesser enquiry of some kind.
The lawyers are winning though. We are now paying for lawyers due to an access dispute with PD ports whose land adjoins the old works, and apparently we are paying for legal advice that was needed after Private Eye stated some uncomfortable facts.
Oh and due to the land dispute a new roundabout (already built and paid for with public money) may be moved.
Of course Ben Houchen the Tees Valleys mayor just keeps saying nothing to see here...
Edit: On the plus side a lovely new segregated cycle lane now goes along the road past my work gate. Pity they haven't put any let down in the curb so you have to bunnyhop onto the grass verge to access it from the works entrance or from the cycle path that ends after 100m along the other side of the road 🙄


 
Posted : 28/10/2023 8:08 pm
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It's a bit like the Robert de Niro film, Casino.. every one is happy as long as they get thier kick backs.

Current UK Government is essentially the same thing as the old skool Las Vegas gangsters but 'legal'.

And there are a million shades of grey in between.


 
Posted : 28/10/2023 8:12 pm
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Now, I know corruption is as old as money itself but I can't help but think it went into overdrive after an event that happened in 2016 which also triggered many other negative outcomes in the UK.

Basically, if you have no morals, are prepared to bluff it out and know full well that embezzling hundreds of millions of Pounds us less likely to see you in court than a bloke nicking a bottle of cider from the co-op... It's a good time to be alive in the UK.


 
Posted : 28/10/2023 8:16 pm
benos, jameso, jameso and 1 people reacted
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but I can’t help but think it went into overdrive after an event that happened in 2016 which also triggered many other negative outcomes in the UK.

We certainly didn't win as many medals in Rio as we did at London 2012.


 
Posted : 28/10/2023 8:54 pm
Poopscoop and Poopscoop reacted
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Was watching someone earlier accusing Trump of whizzing $1.7bn over 4 years into his campaign and family's coffers. 'Only in America...' (I wish that were true).


 
Posted : 28/10/2023 8:58 pm
Poopscoop and Poopscoop reacted
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We certainly didn’t win as many medals in Rio as we did at London 2012.

There you go, definitive proof, if it were needed.😁


 
Posted : 28/10/2023 9:17 pm
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Our local councils just spent £220000 on a short bit of fencing:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-gloucestershire-67217742/a >

you are confusing corruption for stupidity. That fence will last at most 20 years. They estimated it would cost twice as much to build a dry stone wall that would last 200 years.


 
Posted : 28/10/2023 9:24 pm
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It’s just the easy option.
An honest days work is hard.


 
Posted : 28/10/2023 9:55 pm
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The one going on round here is the shenanigans round the Tees Freeport.

Yup if only a tenth of what private eye says is correct then someone really needs to be having the taxpayer insisting on covering their board and lodging for a few years.

Of course Ben Houchen the Tees Valleys mayor just keeps saying nothing to see here…

Thats Baron Houchen to plebs like you and me. His great works have been recognised with a life peerage.


 
Posted : 28/10/2023 10:14 pm
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Ban on bankers bonuses lifted……

Record profits made due to raised interest rates

🤔


 
Posted : 02/11/2023 10:05 am
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Corruption in the UK is legalised and normalised particularly with regard to the MPs.  non exec directorships, lobbying, consultancy fees etc.<br /><br />One MP I looked into was being paid £2000 per hour for a non existent job.


 
Posted : 02/11/2023 10:20 am
chrismac and chrismac reacted
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+1 on the good law project, seems pointless dontating to any political parties, these guys seem to be just getting on with it so they get a (small) monthly donation from me. bung them a couple of quid.

https://goodlawproject.org/


 
Posted : 02/11/2023 10:22 am
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non exec directorships, lobbying, consultancy fees etc GB news gigs

Fixed it for you.


 
Posted : 02/11/2023 10:26 am
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If we polled the UK population - are you against corruption because it's bad, or just because you're not getting a piece of it?

I'd expect to be disappointed.


 
Posted : 02/11/2023 10:01 pm
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Corruption has been going on since Adam and Eve 

<br />These days with some much tech it’s harder to hide it


 
Posted : 02/11/2023 10:08 pm
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for what is Toryism, except organized spivery?


 
Posted : 02/11/2023 10:17 pm
Poopscoop and Poopscoop reacted
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I’d expect to be disappointed.

By what? Honesty?


 
Posted : 02/11/2023 10:38 pm

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