it’s watching their pay go less far, year after year.
If you can afford to emigrate then this really isn't an issue. Even when we were in the EU it was still very expensive. Have you seen the taxes and legal fees when buying french properties? Emigrating has almost always been a rich person's game.
If you can afford to emigrate then this really isn’t an issue.
It's like you didn't even read the post that you're quoting from.
Emigrating has almost always been a rich person’s game.
Really? Ten pound poms? Post war emigration to Canada? Clearances in an Gorta Mór? Clearances of the highlands?
It’s like you didn’t even read the post that you’re quoting from.
If you look carefully you'll see I'm agreeing with you 😀
Emigrating has almost always been a rich person’s game.
Or a poor person's game. Could one not just do what these dinghy chaps do - travel to a country of your choice on the other side of the world and then claim a house and some sweet, sweet benefits?
😀
🥴
The only dour people I’ve met here are British ex-pats and the odd grumpy waiter or shop worker.
TBH they moan about Spain and Home, I'm not sure if its an old person thing or they are just miserable fun suckers who happened to be old.
I'll agree thou working here is still work but tbh you could make every weekend a roadie 'training' camp experience if you so wished if your on the sunny end,(apart from miserable Dec/Jan/Feb).
I'm infuriated by the current politics and Brexit and happy to sit it out in the sun for a while but I dont have a downer for the UK, its always been shite if you were poor, they are just making more of you poorer so now its more noticeable when you feel the pinch.
Emigrating has almost always been a rich person’s game.
It's not Emigration thou having a house in two or more countries which is what the rich do 🙂
that may be true, but the childcare burden is non-existent, which is an absolutely massive thing.
Completely forgot about that, simply because it's so cheap. The money goes every month and it's only about 120 quid (and my kids are on the absolute maximum rate). It peaked at about 185 quid a month, for everything, for 2 kids with about 50 hours (each) of care at nursery.
If you can afford to emigrate then this really isn’t an issue. Even when we were in the EU it was still very expensive.
It really wasn't. I could have probably done it for under 1000 quid if i'd really wanted or needed to.
For anyone in a professional field or a home owner, it was almost as easy as moving house/job in the UK.
It only gets expensive if you simply can't leave auntie maudes dresser behind and need to move a large amount of gear. I did it in a LWB transit. With a bit more planning and time, i could have sold pretty much everything and done it in the car.
More than one of my non-Swedish mates has literally turned up on a flight with a suitcase or two with all their worldly belongings in and ended up staying here and settling.
Since Brexit it's got *REALLY* expensive, and difficult.
We moved from the Uk to France 5 years ago. We moved to my home town in southern France. Very rural. My eldest son hated it and now gone back to the uk. The other two are loving it. And my english wife loves it too.
Probably cost 2000 euros to move.
In the process of selling our uk house.
there will come a time when we will be too old/frail for long haul flights to visit one another which will be especially sad for one sister whos 3 kids have all settled in different continents.
We are seeing a version of that now - one bro-in-law in Oz, the other in LA. The in-laws went over to LA at Christmas and are now saying it is the last time ever that they will long-haul so now they are reliant on their sons coming back to the UK on visits with their families and are beginning to worry they will never see them again. It has made them terribly sad for years as it was but this recent realisation has made them much, much sadder 🙁
Emigrating has almost always been a rich person’s game.
It wasn't necessarily when we were in the EU. I moved to Finland after I'd been unemployed for months. All I needed was a plane ticket and the deposit for a flat.
In that context though it is a young EU citizen's game. Vastly more difficult when you have kids even within the EU, because of the associated complications. And it's not open to everyone. You also need a job where you can use whatever languages you speak. I didn't speak Finnish or German when I went to those places but in both cases they were English speaking or English allowed workplaces.
Now, our options are limited to the specific professions or trades where your skills are needed, and you may be more likely to be posted by your company if you are a valuable enough resource to warrant the effort, which probably makes you high up in the company, and consequently probably well off.
I agree that the Government is appalling and seriously damaging the country, but it's not all as bad as it seems:
Now, our options are limited to the specific professions or trades where your skills are needed, and you may be more likely to be posted by your company if you are a valuable enough resource to warrant the effort, which probably makes you high up in the company, and consequently probably well off.
This is one of the things i'm sad about coming out of Brexit,you can't just rock up and try and get a job or just live here,or even bum around in your van for a year.
I keep on saying it but all thru my life all i've seen is ladders being drawn up after the advantages have been taken, free milk,Free Nurseries,free University,cheap housing,(missed out on the final salary pension scheme thou) and finally the choice to just trundle over to the EU and well do what you want.
I just wonder if the UK subconsciously really hate or despise their children as making their lives harder seems to be a thing.
ladders being drawn up after the advantages have been taken
True but that is not the case with Brexit. The people who voted for it are the ones who never took advantage of FoM or knew what it would mean. They seem to resent the idea that you even could work abroad. The response I most often saw was 'why on earth would you even want to work in another country?'
I think I said it in the Brexit thread, but my mother voted for Brexit with one of her reasons being to give her grandkids more opportunities in the future. This is knowing full well that one of those grandkids wanted to study and work in European politics during and after uni.
It made my move (about a year later) to Sweden more of a pain, but she really did not consider that.
Emigrating has almost always been a rich person’s game.
It wasn’t necessarily when we were in the EU.
True but that is not the case with Brexit. The people who voted for it are the ones who never took advantage of FoM or knew what it would mean. They seem to resent the idea that you even could work abroad. The response I most often saw was ‘why on earth would you even want to work in another country?’
As a died in the wool remainer and someone who worked more years outside the UK than in... it's not really accurate to leave it at that.
(Excuse the bold)
The people who voted for it are the ones who never took advantage of FoM or knew what it would mean TO THEM. They seem to resent the idea that you even could work abroad. The response I most often saw was ‘why on earth would you even want to work in another country WHEN SOMEONE IS COMING HERE TAKING MY JOB FOR LESS MONEY?
Can we not make this another Brexit thread?
OP - you don't let the grass grow under your feet do ya?
https://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/moving-to-cornwall-from-yorkshire/
Can we not make this another Brexit thread?
Heavily related though.
The irony is that pre-Brexit, people travelling abroad to work would almost invariably return or they'd be on exchange programmes or working for a company with multi-national connections.
Now, people just want to get out of the UK.
It's a worrying "brain drain" trend of losing a lot of educated, intelligent and highly qualified people.
The brain drain of skilled educated Europeans back to Europe was more dramatic, IMO. We've got serious skills shortages, working for a global company one of whose R&D hubs is in the UK. If this keeps up we'll have to move product development for some products outside the UK which will be a significant negative.
Just do it. You will be fine. I did it after spending many years trying to master "English" language with the help of 'Sesame Street' (esp Count von Count) and 'Mind your language'.
Bottom line is that if you can earn a good living then you will be happy and fine where ever you go. If you can't then even paradise is a shite hole.
I left the UK in 2008 heading to Germany in my shitty Seat Ibiza with my bike on the rear rack kwith ~2500£ in my account.
Was back in the UK recently. Was left feeling there was an air of apathy and odd acceptance that things were a bit shit and run down.
Fed up of of life in Germany now after being in Munich for the last ten years or so. Life here is expensive. Regardless of that I don't much fancy another ten years of living within such close proximity to so many people.
Going to take some time out, travel, ride my bikes and make the most of my new found freedom thanks to my German passport. Find a spot we like and possibly settle. Who knows.
Most people complaints to me essentially boil down to erosion of the middle class and inequality between rich and poor. It’s happening everywhere and I’d say from what I can see is much worse in many of the places mentioned. Vancouver, Toronto, NZ are nuts even for those earning well into six figures.
Compare to a Europe and tell me it’s any better in France or Spain if you had to work for a local co. Low wages, little innovation and high unemployment. Give it a few more years and outside of the pretty parts I think they will see a more rapid decline that the UK. Poor birth rates, no one to pay tax or pensions. Pretty parts will get purchased by rich folk with money from overseas.
That said, I think I’d be quite happy living in Pemberton for the summer if I could afford it 🙂
Spain has built infrastructure over the last 25 years that we have not. They have benefits that are far higher. There are many fewer people in poverty and none of that is goung to disappear
Our public services are utter shite compared to western europe. Get those anglo centric rose tinted glasses of and see the reality.
Decades of tory government's have squandered time money and effort on eff all
The problem with the UK is housing is extortionately expensive for tiny shitboxes. Everything is played out and has been milked to death. Even areas that were considered shitholes are expensive. Anything the least bit nice or in a semi nice area is crazy money. Anything cheap is snapped up for renting by people who benefitted from the housing market rises of the last 40 years, most notably the late nineties early 2000's period, which were nothing to do with entrepreneurial spirit as many like to portray it. Add to that the imported labour which has flooded into working class areas (obviously not the nicer bits) to occupy said rental properties/low quality housing and you can understand the anger. The private sector has been used to provide public housing, so the government can absolve itself of responsibility and associated costs, whilst at the same time damaging the fabric of working class areas.
The circle has been broken. We have be sold a mickey of shit wages for workers, rising costs to bolster private sector profit margins, unprecedented levels of public money handed over to the private sector, expensive small low quality housing with transient scum neighbours, who couldn't give a flying **** about community and the areas they live in.
The people who have benefitted keep telling us how wonderful it all is, the virtue of work, how they love their jobs and their neighbourhood isn't at all like that. The turncoats have been instrumental in ****ing us over for their own financial gain, are usually at arms length and sheltered from the majority of the consequences.
Spain has built infrastructure over the last 25 years that we have not. They have benefits that are far higher. There are many fewer people in poverty and none of that is goung to disappear
Our public services are utter shite compared to western europe. Get those anglo centric rose tinted glasses of and see the reality.
Absolutely. And to think some British people used to call it a backward country!
I would consider moving to Scotland but at 46 and school age kids moving abroad is not going to happen.
My daughters fortunately have UK and Danish passports so they fortunately haven't had some opportunities limited by Brexit.
I have enough friends living abroad to know that the grass isn't always greener.
I’ve lived and worked in a number of countries, all of which have a higher standard of living than the UK, and I’m deeply pissed off about Brexit bringing that to an end, but I’d mention one problem with emigrating - don’t underestimate the difficulty of integrating into your new environment where you have no family, no school friends, no network of contacts. Of course every individual situation is different but as an example in 4 years in NL I was NEVER invited into someone’s home. I’m not that unfriendly, it just never happened. Similar story in Norway. If you’re self sufficient or super-friendly, go for it, but it’s an issue for most normal mortals.
Emigrating has almost always been a rich person’s game
It's very much been a game people who are willing to go and try do and others come up with reasons they can't. May not work out or it may do, you won't know till you go.
I spend 6 months a year out of the UK, mainly Spain. Would spend longer, but you know, Brexit….
Have to admit that I see a different view of the country to others. As much as I love it, outside of the main cities and tourist areas, the infrastructure is poor. Poverty is quite high but less overt than the UK. But people seem to appear happier with their lot. Huge wealth disparities between the cities and rural areas.
The train network is OK, but no better or worse than the UK. Roads are OK, but still loads of appalling ones, again similar to the UK.
Motorway networks are much better, don’t know why but long drives in Spain just feel massively easier. Driving around cities can be quite stressful though.
I also spend a fair bit of time in the rural south of France where the missus lives. Much less poverty, but still very backwards infrastructure wise. Appalling roads. Electric charging? Not this decade! Broadband? The locals have heard of that, but it scares them! And this is in a wealthy area not far from Nimes. Heading down to Marseille and poverty and wealth disparity feels like the UK, maybe worse…..just my view but I find that city poverty in France is similar to the UK, with the odd exception. I visit Nice a fair bit and that feels affluent, has its poorer areas but not like UK cities.
I’m now stuck in the UK until end of November. Probably going to spend the winter in the canaries. I’d move to France in a heartbeat, Spain I adore, but it’s harder to find value for money these days. Property prices feel like they are on a fast upward trajectory (I’d need to be somewhere close to an airport).
Regarding house prices in the UK….isn’t some areas of Europe ridonculously difficult to buy in? I thought Germany and the Scandi countries was supposed to be generational hand me down housing?
Regarding house prices in the UK….isn’t some areas of Europe ridonculously difficult to buy in? I thought Germany and the Scandi countries was supposed to be generational hand me down housing?
Everyone I know that's moved to the EU (normal people, not rich) is in rented accommodation out there.
Property prices feel like they are on a fast upward trajectory (I’d need to be somewhere close to an airport
TBH the good old 2016 rate of £1 - €1.40 are long gone what was it today €1.12 🙁
Yup…
isn’t some areas of Europe ridonculously difficult to buy in? I thought Germany and the Scandi countries was supposed to be generational hand me down housing?
Nah, not hand me downs, i don't know anyone who lives in a generational home, quite a lot have generational holiday homes though.
There is a hell of a bidding war for anything remotely desirable, can get 20-30% over asking price for some places.
i think everywhere in the world is facing the same problems of riding costs and dodgy leadership.
my weekly shop in canada has gone up by at least 50% in the last year. petrol has gone up 25 cents in 2 days. houses are expensive, interest rates are on the rise and climate change is having a big impact.
when we lived in the yukon i’d have said canada was paradise, now we live in BC’s lower mainland, i’d say it’s just like living in SE England but with better mountain biking and bigger houses and a worrying proximity to the USA.
i was back in the uk last month, visiting family in kent and surrey. i was surprised at how lovely it was, especially the consideration and discipline people showed when driving and that people were more pleasant than i remembered (though gatwick was a filthy bit of a mess of a place).
the big difference from when i lived there was that this experience was framed in a holiday attitude. i was relaxed and in a good mood and as a result my experience was relaxed and pleasant (with the exception of being in gatwick).
what’s my point? good question, i’m rambling. everywhere is expensive and feeling like it’s unstable and getting worse, uk isn’t that bad and your own mood has a big impact on your experiences. i must remind myself of this last point as i navigate my daily life!
as someone mentioned above, only move somewhere because that’s where you want to be, not because you don’t want where you are.
Everyone I know that’s moved to the EU (normal people, not rich) is in rented accommodation out there.
Probably that’s partly because renters have some legal protetction, and can’t be just thrown into the street like they can here.
Indeed. They have lovely affordable homes that they rent as well. Couldn't afford to buy out there though, if that's your priority. As above... locals with inherited property often rent their main home as well... the inheritance tends to be a summer house in the middle of no where. The good part of that is they get to use it while their parents are still alive as well.
OP, if you're seriously looking at going abroad, consider looking at the car manufacturers themselves. Plenty of OEMs on the mainland.
The two big differences I've noticed between living in UK and Belgium:
1) in Belgium, mortgages are typically 20-25years for 1st time buyers of my generation. Those over 30 years are uncommon.
2) My previous engineering manager in UK earnt £60000ish/year. My entry level engineer role in Belgium pays similar.
UK seems less affordable unless debt is for life.
I thought Germany and the Scandi countries was supposed to be generational hand me down housing?
No. Not really.
I've never found Norway tricky socially. Different to the UK , but not difficult.
Putin's offering citizenship if you sign up to the army for a year. It's a tempting offer.
It really wasn’t. I could have probably done it for under 1000 quid if i’d really wanted or needed to.
For anyone in a professional field or a home owner, it was almost as easy as moving house/job in the UK.
i’m guessing that you didn’t take a family and being in a professional field instantly makes you one of the better off people
on the topic of grand parents not seeing their grandchildren, if they offered to cover some of the costs of travel to visit them then they may get more visits. taking your family around the world is not cheap.
though i enjoyed my last visit to the uk it wasn’t really a holiday and i’d have rather spent the time a couple of hours drive from home with my bike.
it’s amazing how when people visit us it’s assumed that we’ll collect them from the airport, but when we visit the uk we’ll hire a car! i think they believe that we are stinking rich because we left the uk.
that all sounds a bit harsh
Lat. Same when you move north in the UK
haha. or south, in the case of my parents!
i’m guessing that you didn’t take a family and being in a professional field instantly makes you one of the better off people
Actually, i was effectively unemployed, couldn't access much in the way of cash, as my house wasn't sold until i'd already been in sweden for 6 weeks.
Cost of living in the UK at the time had ensured that i had virtually *no* buffer either, maybe 500 quid, including my much abused overdraft and no job to go to. Once i'd paid for all the various bits of travel and some rent, i was basically reliant on my next months salary arriving (about 2 weeks money, less tax of course) to tide me over until the house was sold and the funds cleared. No kids, but did bring a wife, about a dozen bikes and 2 cats though.
We both lucked out and had jobs within a fortnight though.
The amazing thing is, despite taking lower paid jobs, buying a house, the famed (and fictional) high taxes in sweden, we both had immediate increases in disposable income.
brave move! we were in a similar situation when we finally permanently left the uk. exciting times
Speaking from Germany, I would say, it all depends on your priorities.
Germany is easier to live in but harder to love. But, having seen the other side of the fence over here, it certainly puts some perspective into living in the UK.
The UK is weird at times - a lot of Brits seem to think the UK is a freer place, but you are only allowed to use footpaths and bridleways etc. In the east of Germany (and Scandinavia) at least, unless a path is blatantly private, people will use them. A lot of Brits talked about getting out of Europe to cut red tape, but the UK has more or less a similar amount of red tape and jobsworth officials as Germany. The class system in the UK still creates more social barriers than in Germany.
Having said that, the UK is more welcoming in general than Germany, and Brits are mostly less self-obsessed (with a few exceptions of course) than Germans. And I still get homesick for the British countryside.
Before you move, do your homework though - Lots of Brits seemed to come here to get away from the racism of Brexit, but seemed to be oblivious to the fact that in some parts of Germany the vote is over 25% for the extreme right and casual racism here is actually pretty bad (whether it is intended or not).
But why not give it a try - travel broadens the mind after all....
I came to Oz for a year in 2009 That year turned into... I'm still here.
The grass isn't greener. Its largely very dry and a huge fire risk.
You're just a flight away if you need to go back to the UK for emergencies. I've done it twice now.
Just done 6 months in Europe with the kids but we're back home now.
Dont sit back and wonder. Try it. Nothing is permanent if you don't like a different country. Maybe skip Russia though.
I came to Oz for a year in 2009 That year turned into… I’m still here.
I'm on holiday in Oz at the moment. If it wasn't for the fact that I have a brand new (and relatively good) job lined up starting next month in the UK, I'd be seriously looking at doing whatever it takes to stay out here.
Depressing how low the UK has sunk in the last 10 years and other than aging parents, I have no real ties there.
My mates son went over to NZ in January 2020 with a visa/work permit or whatever it was but no job. It was more of a recce but he’s a digger/360 driver so got a job within hours. He subsequently & luckily got stranded there due to covid. He came back a couple of weeks ago for the 1st time & is heading back to NZ in a couple of weeks with plans to stay there.
Young single lad though, living the dream riding trials motorbikes, fishing, shooting & driving diggers. Oh, & having his end away with his bosses daughter.
If i didn't have the trouble of ageing parents coming my way, i'd be out of here like a shot - not entirely sure where thought to be honest - everywhere seems to be in turmoil. I'd fancy Switzerland, but i'm not a multi millionaire unfortunately!! 🙂 .....and with the slide of Sterling i doubt i could afford Vietnam now!!
brave move! we were in a similar situation when we finally permanently left the uk. exciting times
Yeah, did have a couple of wobbles over the last 3 months in the UK and the first few months in Sweden, because there were so many things that had to go right (or right enough) for it to work. You know, if the house sale had fallen through, or i hadn't been able to find a job, or a flat to rent.
Anyway, over a decade and a half later, got no intention of ever going back to the UK. Even visits are getting less frequent, last one was a weekend for my mums 75th, slotted into various relaxations of COVID rules.
Also, I don’t know if you have family, but people I know who’ve moved to Oz and NZ are enjoying life there, but can’t afford to come back to visit family and family here can afford to go and visit them.
Sounds absolutely ideal!
