Is it time I joined the van clan? Which one?

Get an SUV, they're very popular

Or a transit

VW Caddy Maxi with rear seats or Maxi life, the 2.0's are fairly bulletproof but quite pricey TBH

Just go full van ****er and get a T5. 😉

3 seats would be useful on occasion.

Not really after something to sleep in but may do occasionally. Just want something I can chuck my bike straight in.

If you want three usable seats then 'big enough to sleep in'  - and therefore quite a big van - transit sized -  is really what you're going to get. Smaller vans that you'd 'just chuck a bike into' will be 2 seat. Berlingos / Partners are offered with 3 seats at the front but the experience of actually using that middle seat for every one in the van would be pretty grim. I've never, ever seen 3 people in the front of one.  The passenger seat has all sorts of clever functions - a little storage locker, it flip ups to create storage in the footwell, it flips down, it s has a clever sliding laptop/picnic tray. The only thing it fails at is being sat on.

The next size up of current Stelantis vans (dispatch / vivaro / expert) that middle seat is still pretty awful. If 3 seats and bikes in the back are the criteria then its Transporter (still very snug) transit, older vivaros, or at best tracking down a SWB boxer.

Depending on what age of vehicle you're looking at there are increasingly fewer choices - theres a lot of badge engineering and you've only really got two or three choices in each class of van now.

VW Caddy Maxi with rear seats or Maxi life, the 2.0’s are fairly bulletproof

I think not. We've got a low milage caddy  running alongside a 15 year old berlingo and a starship milage sprinter and so far, after 18 months of ownership its by far the most expensive engine we've ever owned and it came within a hairs breadth of completely lunching itself. I've spent more in that engine than I have in total on engine repairs over the last 25 years. There are certainly bad vintages off of the 2.0 engine and in particular  it seems to be the newer ones. Nice van though. 🙂

My son has had 3 works Caddies that have all had major faults. One destroyed an engine.

I've owned vw t5 campervans since 2009.

Back in 2009 the vw t5 was streets ahead of the other vans. Now, I don't think it is but it has a price premium.

Brother in law recently bought a Toyota proace van, it's the same as the peogeot and I think fiat? Came with a 5 year warranty or 100000 miles. If he services it at Toyota, he gets an extra years warranty, upto 10 years.

It was nice to drive, had a lot of bells and whistles.

Just be weary of the extra price that comes with a vw t5 t6 etc. If your not converting to a campervan then probably not worth it over the competition.

I have a Peugeot expert. Medium size van bigger than berlingo smaller than transit. It has three seat but to be honest I would never use the third seat by choice.

I’ve been looking along a similar line.

Came to the conclusion that the size penalty of a van which can seat 3 comfortably up front isn’t worth it. So instead looking at vans with removable rear seats.

I kid about the T5. Horrific things.

There's quite a few maxi conversions out there with rear seats.

If you just want something you can throw a bike into, and occasionally has 3 seats, a galaxy/Sharan with the rearmost seats removed will be younger, cheaper and way nicer to be in than any compatible van

I have a crew lwb transit connect.
Rear seats fold the load area is not dead flat, the seats end up raised about 2".
I can get my bikes in upright and secured with bungee cords. Not small bikes either, s6 stumpjumper 29er for example.
With an offcut of 2" insulation board and sleeping mat I can easily spend the night in there.

For me it's perfect I don't need a full transit and it's just useful taking stuff to the recycle center or from diy store

I don’t need a full transit

The LWB connect is is actually only 15cm shorter, extremely,  than a Trasnit Custom (although the Custom is much bigger inside)

Sounds like the expert van I had.

3 seats at the front are cosey but fine for three adults. At 6' I'd sleep on the seats after night shift awaiting my mates at a trail head.

Could put 7 bikes in the back with some careful placement, no wheels off or headsets messed around with either.

Small enough to fit in regular parking bays and low enough to get where an SUV can too.

Get an SUV, they’re very popular

I agree! If you're not bothered about sleeping in it an SUV is definitely worth consideration. We do very nicely with our CRV, two kayaks, two mountain bikes and space for all the gubbins for multi-week trips! Add in higher ground clearance, more comfortable drive, better fuel economy and knowledge that if I spack it head on into a car they're the ones likely to die, not me.

Win, win, win! 🙂

Already have a CRV and hate it. I want to be able to put the bike in without taking the wheels off.

Maybe I do need rear seats for carrying a 7 year old?

Brother in law recently bought a Toyota proace van, it’s the same as the peogeot and I think fiat? Came with a 5 year warranty or 100000 miles. If he services it at Toyota, he gets an extra years warranty, upto 10 years.

That seems very reasonable. TopGear seems to give it a favourable review, but making the point it's a European van instead of an indestructible Toyota van.

https://www.topgear.com/car-reviews/toyota/proace/specs

What’s the issue with taking a bloody wheel off? You’re going to buy a much bigger, less, efficient vehicle because it’s somehow a problem taking a wheel off? Even with QR, it was fine, but with TA it’s the epitome of a none issue.

I genuinely don’t get it.

Stick a rack on the CRV, it's gonna be nicer to drive and more reliable than any van.
We had a LWB HiAce and it got annoying driving it everywhere, so have a CX5 which is great.
More reliable, more comfy, quieter, more economical, rack on the back for bikes and massive boot for bike gear and kit.
Money saved we just book a hotel/B+B rather than sleeping in a cold damp van. 😁

I have an old Berlingo and it's great, the newest ones are good especially the lwb versions. They've grown a bit in size so are only a bit smaller than a T5 nowadays.
The Peugeot (G)Rifter is the toned down less garish version.

Very popular in France (as you'd expect) with the wind/kite surf crowd.

Ex British Gas van, they come with good locks and a metal bulkhead. The smaller vans are engineer vans so tend to have been looked after better.

Plenty of VW Caddys about.

It does seem like you just want to burn a load of cash just to avoid taking a wheel off a bike. Weird.

Berlingo or Tepee partner

Put seats in the garage and you have a van

Put the seats in as needed

I can just get a 29er in wheels on

The newer long wheel base would be bigger. Obviously

Get an SUV, they’re very popular

Make sure it's at least a v8 for the lolz.

Better yet get a lifestyle vehicle and start a YouTube travel channel hawking hoodies and shizzle as your side hustle.

What we need as MTBers is the return of the proper MPV

Like the eurovan, Citroen C8, Peugeot 807 etc

Care engines, car handling, slot in seats, these even had a internal wheels on bike rack as an accessory

vans are a bad and expensive compromise

I consider vans every now and then for the next family vehicle but it's so hard to look beyond something like the Seat Alhambra - up to 7 seats, 5 of which fold completely flat making a large reasonably tall load area. Much more refined and car like to drive too.

3 seats, but not on the market just yet.

So it looks like I don't want a van then. Looks like some kind of MPV is required.

wzzzz
Free Member
What we need as MTBers is the return of the proper MPV

geomickb
Free Member
So it looks like I don’t want a van then. Looks like some kind of MPV is required.

What we need is the return of the Nissan Prairie!!!
We had so many UK and French bike and snowboard roadtrips in this thing, it was brilliant. The best £300 ever spent on a vehicle (it did start with carpet/interior and in good condition)

[url= https://i.ibb.co/nMCydkC/B8-DBC909-D0-D1-4-C1-D-888-E-C9-AC14257088.jp g" target="_blank">https://i.ibb.co/nMCydkC/B8-DBC909-D0-D1-4-C1-D-888-E-C9-AC14257088.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
[url= https://i.ibb.co/W62DcR4/C2-BD67-A5-3708-4-F9-B-B089-CADC00-B56939.jp g" target="_blank">https://i.ibb.co/W62DcR4/C2-BD67-A5-3708-4-F9-B-B089-CADC00-B56939.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
[url= https://i.ibb.co/gRWVdf5/DD942-E66-5185-441-A-A886-D3144-DECEECB.jp g" target="_blank">https://i.ibb.co/gRWVdf5/DD942-E66-5185-441-A-A886-D3144-DECEECB.jp g"/> [/img][/url]

Seats and windows means fewer hassles with visiting the tip or dealing with van speed limits.

The japanese import stuff is excellent - they do compact yet roomy, boxy MPVs better than anyone just don't sell them here. Downside is heavier fuel consumption (they tend to be auto and petrol) but if you're not doing big miles then not worth worrying about. Our Honda Stepwgn has been ace.

Yes, my mate has one of those Jap imports. That may be the answer!

We have a crew cab transit at work and I'd be more than happy to buy one myself. Great bit of kit.

What we need as MTBers is the return of the proper MPV

Like the eurovan, Citroen C8, Peugeot 807 etc

Evolutionarily that seems to have split into the Berlingo (which has become far more expensive than it ever was) and big SUV's (which are fairly pointless as most have car sized boots but with awkward openings to make them look like an off-roader.

The closest thing to the original Berlingo now seems to be a 2nd hand NV200? There's a newer NV250 but that's a Kangoo and either has a <6ft load area or you need the LWB. The original was 6'10"! I'm still tempted to get one and fit an R&R bed with a nice cover to throw the bike on top of.

Money saved we just book a hotel/B+B rather than sleeping in a cold damp van. 😁

It's a valid point, but there's something priceless about being exactly where you want to be. A Premier Inn breakfast, shower and a nice room is ........ nice. But that's 2 hours from bed to trails (shower, faff, breakfast, bike into the car, drive, bike out of car, faff) . You can be up, do a decent ride, and be back at the campsite / car-park for breakfast before other people are even arriving.

You can be up, do a decent ride, and be back at the campsite / car-park for breakfast before other people are even arriving.

What are you then going to do all day ? 😀

that logic only works if you're in a rush to get up, out, back....

What are you then going to do all day ? 😀

Re-fuel with a massive lunch, chill for a bit while it digests, and go for a second big ride because you've not got to be back anywhere and have all day, have a few beers in the local etc.

Basically the opposite of the BPW 9-4 rush to get as much riding in as possible with a hurried lunch in the middle.

I'm not anti-hotels, but I spent ~150 nights in them last year, but on my days off I'd rather just maximize the riding.

What’s the issue with taking a bloody wheel off? You’re going to buy a much bigger, less, efficient vehicle because it’s somehow a problem taking a wheel off? Even with QR, it was fine, but with TA it’s the epitome of a none issue.

I genuinely don’t get it.

Effort innit?

What we need as MTBers is the return of the proper MPV

Like the eurovan, Citroen C8, Peugeot 807 etc

Apart from the fact EV2's are built like shit and suffer from the usual French attitude to RHD conversion. I have one that needs trailered away (master cylinder is gone and needs half the front end stripping to get at), yours for less than the price of a Thule rack. In fact it's going in the classifieds now.

Care engines, car handling, slot in seats, these even had a internal wheels on bike rack as an accessory

I have genuinely never seen or heard of that rack until now. That's probably in the same accessory catalogue as the elusive mini sink/cupboard unit.

You are right though, MPV's are a decent compromise and the EV2 is actually great in concept if not in execution.

Apart from the fact EV2’s are built like shit and suffer from the usual French attitude to RHD conversion. I have one that needs trailered away (master cylinder is gone and needs half the front end stripping to get at), yours for less than the price of a Thule rack. In fact it’s going in the classifieds now.

I scrapped my Berlingo for similar reasons, the clutch pedal cracked and wasn't repairable without the engine coming out! The brake master cylinder couldn't be removed on RHD versions as the engine is in the way, which meant no access to the 'pedal box' bulkhead panel.

Typically French auto-engineering, great concepts very poorly executed.

Money saved we just book a hotel/B+B rather than sleeping in a cold damp van. 😁

For me (and why I'm moving from an estate + towbar rack to a *van), it's not just about being able to get 2 bikes inside, wheels on or off, and having room to sleep inside - it's the freedom that gives you.

It opens up last minute getaways without having to trawl through Airbnb listings trying to find one with bike storage. I've just done a search for staying near Church Stretton, for this weekend - found 2 campsites within 5 minutes, one of which requires no booking, for either £20 or £18 for 2 nights. There's a total of 1 Airbnb in the area with bike storage available, at £152 for 2 nights.

Even if you're not camping it means not having to find accommodation with bike storage, which opens up a huge amount of options.

And of course there's the ease of going riding, if you've got seat covers you can be away in a few minutes of the ride ending, and security-wise, parking up at services or anywhere en-route you don't have to worry about the bikes being nicked, or having parts unbolted from them...

*Big van based MPV

So, yeah - a lot of factors that have made me come to the conclusion that an (expensive) van is the way forward. Of course a cheaper, less posh, older van would also do the job just as well.

I have a Vw t4 which I love (although I’m a Vw fan as I own a 1971 beetle and use to have a split screen van). As ta11pau1 says, the freedom it gives you to just get away is priceless.

(Ps @tallpaul would be interested in which camps near church Stratton you’re talking about)

would be interested in which camps near church Stratton you’re talking about

I'm not actually looking at going this weekend but it's nice to get an idea of what's available. It is somewhere I'm looking to go at some point though.

I found 'Near Gatten' campsite via pitchup.com, and https://browfarmcampsite.co.uk/ which needs no booking. Both within riding distance of long mynd.

but 3 seats would be useful on occasion.

Not really after something to sleep in but may do occasionally.

We recently bought a van earlier this year, pretty much same as you on the three seats / sleeping thing.... Looked at the smaller vans with three seats up front, none were actually comfortable for anything other than a very short journey. Ended up getting an Peugeot expert, which has three seats but even then it's very tight for three adults.

Only had a couple of occasions since Jan when we're used all three seats so it works well for us - but I prob could have got a way with a Partner for the most of its use.

https://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/peugeot-expert-van-build-bikes-and-work-pic-heavy/

ta11pau1

https://browfarmcampsite.co.uk/

Thought it might be that one. I stayed there in winter and thought it would be amazing come summer with the river at bottom and the pub a small woodland walk away.

Thought it might be that one. I stayed there in winter and thought it would be amazing come summer with the river at bottom and the pub a small woodland walk away.

Nice, I'll add it to the list of places to stay, not done Minton batch yet but it's on the list!

I've had a T4 for the last 13 years and the growth of Ulez charges has had me considering my options...
My conclusion, I can't imagine life without the convenience of my van. Being able to wheel the bikes in without removing wheels does matter to me but more importantly, being able to leave the bike in there out of sight matters even more so I can combine riding trips with shopping, etc.

And my van pays for itself in firewood every year.

If and when I replace it, it will be with another van but not while the prices are so high, and I'll not be paying VW prices either.