Is it me or are the police useless?

WTF? That's ridiculous tbh. I mean, I might have stopped where the gap on teh right was, but there's obviously no obligation to

I mean, I might have stopped where the gap on teh right was, but there’s obviously no obligation to

That was my plan but when the car obviously wasn't slowing or pulling in it seemed pointless. I'd not have been any safer stopped. The car didn't even try to move over, he had loads of room on the other side!

According to PC Plod of Thames Valley Police the driver was "committed to the overtake so didn't need to stop"

Personally I'd escalate that, they should have an internal complaints procedure you can go through, but if they are in anyway as useless as Sussex police then you may have to go beyond that, IPCC??

Storm and Tea Cup spring to mind.

I’d have stopped as you could see car was committed and gap he could pull into was relatively small. Wet road too, easy to lock a brake on the car. And he didn’t seem to be going that fast.

I’d have stopped as you could see car was committed

How would stopping have made me safer?
If anything I should have stayed in a wider position.

Wet road too, easy to lock a brake on the car

In a 20mph road, I could just have easily slid off if I stopped

It was your right of way, but where did you expect him to go? To be honest I would have probably jumped on the pavement and just carried on round him

Doesn't look a particularly nice place to ride, the rougher the area the more I give way whether I'm in the right or not

I’d have hopped on pavement.

You had right of way, he was a tosser (proven by the fact he stopped even though he was blatantly in the wrong). The fact he was committed to the overtake is further proof of poor driving on his part. Yes the police are effing useless.

Driver at fault. Even though he was "committed to the overtake" he could have reasonably expected to find a vehicle coming towards him so should have been able to stop in the distance he can see to be clear.

Having said that, life's short, the police have been cut like everyone else, I'd not take it any further.

It was your right of way, but where did you expect him to go?

Nowhere, but slow down and make an effort to move over not drive straight at me.

Doesn’t look a particularly nice place to ride, the rougher the area the more I give way whether I’m in the right or not

That's the road I live on!!! Rough as **** me!!

hmm i might have been a bit wider, maybe that would have made the driver slow a little to take the space on the left rather than the breathe in option he chose
on the mtb i'd likely have hopped on the pavement

hope you are ok.

Id have slowed so that car & bike reached gap at roughly same time. Car had nowhere to pullover until gap and was already well committed given the length of parked cars.

There was a sodding great gap just after the white van that he could have pulled into. Whilst i can see the view point of those who would do nothing further, for me it's the thin end of the wedge, when i ride my bike on the road I am traffic, not second class traffic, I obey all the rules (really I do!) and I expect others to do so to.

To be honest I would have probably jumped on the pavement and just carried on round him

It looks like they wouldn't have seen you until they were passing the parked cars so there's no obvious place for them to stop. You'd probably have a stronger argument if you'd stopped at the gap and let them drive into you, which they probably still would have done.

If it's any consolation I've recently submitted footage to TVP of a van failing to see me at a roundabout and side swiping me, and it's only my reactions (and awsum skillz) that kept me upright and out of hospital. Zero response from plod.

Gosh, this is identical to what happened to me last weekend, except my perp had more room on the driver's side. I asked him to move over, he swore at me so I turned around for a fuller explanation.
What camera by the way.

*tries to remove foot from mouth*

What would the driver have done if there was a car going the other way, or a motorcycle? Surely if you're on the wrong side of the road, overtaking, you need to be able to stop within the distance you can see to be clear. If being committed to an overtake irrespective of oncoming traffic is an acceptable precedent, there are going to be a lot of collisions!

Id have slowed so that car & bike reached gap at roughly same time

We did arrived at the gap at roughly the same time, he wasn't slowing so obviously wasn't moving over.

What camera by the way.

Chilli tech cheapo job...sound doesn't work well or you could have enjoyed the swearing!

I'd have slowed or stopped at tbe gap.

Car already committed to overtaking the parked traffic, probably didn't have plenty of room to tuck in if he was not wanting to be doored by one of those parked cars (that principle applies to cars as well), and it would have been the easy and courteous option.

Certainly wouldn't expect the Police to take action on that.

Give as much room to a cyclist as you would a car...

Driver was in the wrong. Obstruction was on his side of the road. He could’ve slowed and pulled in before the white van. If he was looking ahead like you’re supposed to he would’ve also seen your lights and should’ve realised there was oncoming traffic.

Top tip, if you think there’s even the slightest chance of things turning violent then get off the bike and put it between you and them or just drop it.

Car already committed to overtaking the parked traffic, probably didn’t have plenty of room to tuck in if he was not wanting to be doored by one of those parked cars (that principle applies to cars as well), and it would have been the easy and courteous option.

What would the driver have done if there was a car going the other way, or a motorcycle? Surely if you’re on the wrong side of the road, overtaking, you need to be able to stop within the distance you can see to be clear. If being committed to an overtake irrespective of oncoming traffic is an acceptable precedent, there are going to be a lot of collisions!

*sigh*

I’d have slowed or stopped at tbe gap

I did, he didn't. How would stopping have made it safer for me? He would have still driven past far too close.

Stopped or not this would still be too close would it not?

Top tip, if you think there’s even the slightest chance of things turning violent then get off the bike and put it between you and them or just drop it.

I wasn't worried tbh

You shouldn’t have stopped, he should. I’d escalate it tbh. The more this sort of behaviour is let off the worse it will get.

I never ever expected to be in this situation, but I think you are in the wrong here OP.

IMHO:
As above he was committed to the manouver well before you were visible.

There were no other places for him to pull in and give way.

Even if he had stopped, what good would that have served?

Yes, he passed close, but only because you went past the point where he could move back across to his side.

I'm normally rampant pro cyclist and anti motorist in these instances, but in this case I'm really struggling....

Edit: after watching it the 3rd time I am thinking perhaps you feel he was making it clear that he wasn't stopping regardless, and that's what got your goat. If that was the case then I can partly sympathise, but from just watching the vid objectively I can't really be surprised or upset at the fuzz'reaction.

We did arrived at the gap at roughly the same time, he wasn’t slowing so obviously wasn’t moving over.

Didnt look like you were slowing either, certainly not enough to give him a chance to pull into the gap

You shouldn’t have stopped, he should.

Where should he have stopped?

He could’ve slowed and pulled in before the white van

Where?

You could see his headlights from a fair distance. That means he could see A_A’s too. Piss poor reading of the road. We all do it, but most of us would slow down once we realised we’d made a mistake. Failing that he should’ve slowed down and given way.

He could’ve slowed and pulled in before the white van
Where?

Meant after not before. Apply brake, move over. Or stop and wave the more vulnerable road user through. That’s what I’d do.

Even if he had stopped, what good would that have served?

If I have to tell you I doubt you would understand

Driver 100% in the wrong. Just a cyclist hater.

Plod not understanding cycling. Id ask for their cycling officer if they have one iirc most forces do and get him to review it

Are you still heightened emotionally after the other days events? How much effort do you want to put in to chasing this?

Personally I wouldn't let it drop as it is but neither would i invest too much time and energy into it.

As above he was committed to the manouver well before you were visible

So he would also have been committed if a car had been there rather than the OP on a bike. Then what they both just say **** it and drive into each other?

If you are on the wrong side of the road, you don't have right of way. End of

Where should he have stopped?

In the road? Had I been driving I would have stopped and let the bike past. I accept most won't do this but at least slowing would have helped

You had right of way

This isn't really true. Once you commit to passing parked cars you assume right of way and it would be the responsibility of the oncoming traffic to stop.

In this case there's nowhere for oncoming traffic to stop either, it's effectively a single track road, so the onus would be on both road users behave appropriately. Driver should have at least slowed.

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Driver could have pulled in right there, giving way to traffic on the correct side of the road.

I find it best to assume the police are useless until proven otherwise. They certainly have been whenever I’ve needed their help

Well yeah. A real story in a tea cup.
Until its a 13 year old that was on the bike and they get killed by a driver of a 1.5 tonne missile on the wrong side of the road who couldn't give a shit about the safety of someone else.
Then is it still OK ?
Still OK if it was your dead child ?

he should’ve slowed down and given way.

Yup

Why did the anti-santa stop for a chat?

You have right of way same if you were in a car. What did the guy in car think was the benefit of driving so fast?

Report it and get back on with your life as you're not going to change entitled people in wheeled metal boxes.

Ps, you seemed to handle this well, much calmer than I might have been.

Why did the anti-santa stop for a chat?

He was angry I almost hit his wing mirror.

Report it and get back on with your life

I did, police refuse to act, not even a warning letter.

Ps, you seemed to handle this well, much calmer than I might have been.

This is why I have the camera, I bought it after having a wrestle with an even fatter driver who I honestly thought was having a heart attack after our short wrestle...thought I'd killed him 😟

Have you called 999 about the guys trousers, theyre surely illegal?

Arguably you could've slowed slightly to give him more time to tuck into the gap as per the screengrab above. Though he clearly was going to drive through you regardless of what you did. IMHO, etc.

Right side / wrong side / overtaking commit / etc etc - no, this is the new Hierarchy Of Road Users, you're on a bicycle, you have priority over cars.

Even if the driving isn't a police matter, the subsequent aggressive confrontation should be?

A few things I don't understand:

Is there supposed to be audio? It's like there is but really quiet (could be my PC).

Why did you stop after he'd 'passed?'

Why did he reverse back up?

Ok, I’ll raise my head above the parapet and offer some perspective and hopefully an explanation for the Police lack of action.

I used to be a traffic officer for almost twenty years - I’ve been a cyclist for 50 years and the first observation I would make from the video you have posted is that due to the curve of the road, despite him having his headlights illuminated you cannot see his approach. However, when you can eventually see him he is indeed committed to his passing the parked cars. At this point bear in mind that there is no reason to suppose that his view of you was any better than your view of him. And arguably as a cyclist you are less visible than a car.

My second observation is, by virtue of the obstruction being on his side of the road, you would definitely have right of way had you both been approaching the parked cars but neither of you had actually committed to your passing them (remember you both have to actually see each other to make the assessment). But neither of you can see each other until you’re both committed. The argument that you had right of way because the obstruction is on his side is wholly dependant on him not already having started his passing manoeuvre.

This then boils down to common sense, manners and a large amount of your (as a cyclist) instinct for self preservation; if you were both in cars then if you’re both committed, one of you will have to reverse. That should be the driver who will be least inconvenienced. Usually that’ll be the person who has the shortest distance to reverse, but you should also take into account whether either one of you has traffic behind you. One car moving backwards is less inconvenient than a line of drivers having to reverse.

However, you’re on a bike, you’re vulnerable but also far more manoeuverable than a car. In the interests of self preservation I would’ve taken to the causeway and carried on my way.

I hope that helps?

Plod not understanding cycling. Id ask for their cycling officer if they have one iirc most forces do and get him to review it

Or possibly a member of the public expecting a whole lot more than most beleaguered Police forces can realistically deliver following huge cuts budgets, and when faced with a 50:50 (at best) decision.

Cycling officer? Possibly in 1957… as a “plod” I’ve never heard of a force cycling officer. Where do I sign?

I can't for the life of me see how the driver is in the right here... there was that massive gap, that's where he should have gone, 100%... Clearly he never..

Baffled by the discussion.

Is there supposed to be audio? It’s like there is but really quiet (could be my PC).

Why did you stop after he’d ‘passed?’

Why did he reverse back up?

The audio just didn't work for some reasons, it's a very s cheap camera.
I stopped because he screeched to a halt and was reversing back at me. He was doing that because he was angry I almost hit his mirror.

are the police useless?

No, underfunded & underresourced.

And arguably as a cyclist you are less visible than a car.

That's just plain bollocks, I wasn't wearing an invisibility cloak.

I hope that helps?

It certainly helps explain why roads are so dangerous for cyclists.

All the rubbish about right of way is entirely irrelevant, The vulnerable road user should not be forced off the road in order to be safe

I would add the general point that had I slowed more the car would have met me after the point at which the was plenty of space for us to pass each other.
Also I could obviously ride off the road almost everything I am about to lightly inconvenience a car driver for a few seconds but that would be going against the highway code would it not. I thought people wanted cyclists to follow the rules?

You’re only supposed to follow the rules if it doesn’t annoy car drivers. Riding on the pavement is wrong unless it makes a drivers life easier/avoids the chances of their car being damaged by your useless squishy body.

I wouldn’t blame the police though. Blame the cuts to funding and resources.

I would also add to the general discussion that I ride that road everyday, both ways. It's plenty wide enough for a car and a bike to pass the parked cars without stopping as long as both move over a bit. Maybe not the full 1.5m but more than enough given the 20mph limit. There was no need for the car to skim my bars like that.

The driver is clearly a ****er who doesn't give a shit about your safety. You can argue the rights and wrongs of being able to see, rights of way once passing etc,. but a good driver who is sharing the road considerately would have stopped and let you ride past them rather than just carrying on driving straight at you with not much of a gap.
As I have said on a number of occasions to ****er drivers "you can always just stop if that is the best/safest option"

You were both committed to the gap. Had he slowed down first and had you not slowed down, you'd both have met on the far side of the gap. Because he didn't slow down (I'm not saying he was speeding), he was likely going too fast to move into and out of the gap before having to stop completely.

Neither of you was in the wrong and those saying you had right of way are wrong. You have right of way if the obstacle is on the other side of the road and assuming that another user did not enter the obstacle first. It's just an unfortunate coming together of timings, geography and people. I probably wouldn't have slowed my bike, I probably wouldn't have hopped the kerb, but if I were driving, I would have slowed, but this wouldn't have helped the distance/closeness of the pass, Just the feeling of safety/acknowledgement.

My guess is that, like me you're thinking of this as - "If I'd been in another car, he'd have had to make way"? And "given the new 1.5m distance requirement, he should have?" I agree, that ideally, this would be the case, but I very much doubt it ever will be.

No. Not useless. Just have a million other things to deal with and as there was no serious outcome to your issue it has a very low priority. Whilst I agree with the OP entirely I also think that this is really just a classic example of modern society of "me, me , me" and nowt will be gained by takig it further. The pathetic legal system we have won't take a 5 figure fine for a motoring offence so what is there to make people slow down etc?

You were 100% in the right regarding RoW, but as the vulnerable user I'd have still been prepared to stop or hop the kerb because I'd rather be wrong and alive than right and dead or injured.

However, re Mildred's comment and

That’s just plain bollocks, I wasn’t wearing an invisibility cloak.

I don't see what's controversial with an ex traffic officer giving a very reasoned opinion, including pointing out that a car with headlights on is arguably more visible than you - that's a reasonable assertion even without saying arguably (ie, you might disagree) so I don't get why such a confrontational response. You can be 100% right and still break rule 1.

Take the advice from a 20 yr experienced traffic officer and chalk it down to experience. Life is too short.
There are many factors why you'll just have to shrug this off and move on.
The UK's roads are crap. The police are too busy and underfunded/under resourced to deal with everything that is pushed their way. You've had first hand advice here from an ex officer. So no, the Police are not useless. That's like saying the NHS is crap. Its not.
So get over it.

... chalk it down to experience. Life is too short.
...
The UK’s roads are crap.

It's not just our life though. Some of us have children, and would like to see them have some independence to enjoy the outdoors. Why should we accept that it's OK for somebody to aggressively drive several tonnes of machinery at a vulnerable person, regardless of the circumstances?

We can talk about rights of way (and there was none for either party here) but clearly one person was put in unnecessary danger, by somebody who supposedly has an obligation to drive safely under the terms of their licence.

The police response is of course, bollocks. The standard of driving is poor whichever way you look at it. It's an admission that they don't intend to uphold a decent standard, and that's something worthwhile to be challenged imo.

Nice to see the common sense response of a former traffic officer being dismissed.

Increasingly convinced that this is a case of two wrongs not making any right.

As has been pointed out, the Police, and the entire justice system, are underfunded and underresourced rather than useless.

Yes yes...think of the children, the baby robins etc etc etc.....write a strongly worded letter to the chief constable.
Or start a thread on a cycling forum declaring the Police as a whole are useless. FFS.

OK, let's not aspire to a better world...

OK, let’s not aspire to a better world…

It's possible to do both you know.

It’s not just our life though. Some of us have children, and would like to see them have some independence to enjoy the outdoors.

Just let them get on with it then. I was a child once and just rode around every where and the car drivers were no more angelic then. I would have most likely to have been wheelieing along the pavement in the OPs scenario so wouldn't have even noticed what the car was doing, kids eh...

You're just fortunate you didn't brush his wing mirror so he could chase you down, knock you off, beat you up, and get a non-custodial sentence.

I've had that kind of thing 100s of times. Of course he was in the wrong and driving like a know. I would've probably called the bloke a **** and got on with my ride. Not something I would report to the police.
Imagine going through life with arms that don't fit your body... must be punishment enough.

*adds several names to the 'coppers or ex-coppers on the forum spreadsheet*
😂

Painters trousers, gold bracelet, beerbelly! Exits the car in an aggressive manner!? Cycle on, live for tomorrow!

Don't bother with the cops. Pointless. I had my spine broken by a driver, and a mate got his neck broken and a skull fracture. A year apart, but drivers turning right across our paths. GMP didn't even given the drivers a slap - I was left with life changing injuries. The investigation copper even said to my wife (I was out of it in hospital for 6 weeks) that 'your insurance will sort it.

The standard of driving is shocking, but that knuckle dragger wasn't ever going to slow. Obviously an angry little man.

Is it me or are the police useless?

Like teachers are?

Crumbling system, underfunded and repeatedly dealing with other agencies shortcomings. Welcome to the UK 2022.

Is it common sense for the police to perpetuate the myth that cyclists are not visible? That's just dangerous victim blaming bullshit I'm afraid.

I still stand by the fact the right of way wasn't the issue here. It's irrelevant, the issue is if close nature of the pass and that would not have been helped by me stopping, he would have still skimmed past me, probably at a greater speed.

Crumbling system, underfunded and repeatedly dealing with other agencies shortcomings.

Does that mean vulnerable road users should not be protected...can't see how funding affects decision making.

It's not so much the close pass, the dangerous speed the utter ****er went past you, but stopping and reversing back to have a go! One minute he's in so much of a hurry he can't slow and give you a bit of room, the next he's stopping for a chat! The cops should have a word about his aggressive behaviour if nothing else.

Nice to see the common sense response of a former traffic officer being dismissed.

What the one that says the cyclist should make way for a car that is being driven too fast and has no intention of slowing or moving even though the new highway code has recently brought to light the duty of care to all road users. Yeah, makes sense that.

Personally I'd have moved onto the footway, but I dont ride that road every day so don't know how this situation usually dealt with. If theres usually room for both, then I probably wouldn't go up the kerb as I'd expect there to be as much room as usual.

I would have gone on the pavement so nobody needed to slow, there's a drop curb perfectly placed you momentarily wiggle toward.

But as you didn't he should have slowed and made room and maybe you should have slowed more too.

Driver was a knob.

With the caveat that it is always difficult to tell exactly what the situation is on a video: My tuppence worth. If I was on the bike I would have moved over to a primary position, slowed right down so that you are in the gap and effectively forced him into pulling into the gap. Trying to squeeze into a narrow area always encourages drivers to pass close. Make him slow down. Make him move over, don’t facilitate his high speed pass.

What the one that says the cyclist should make way for a car that is being driven too fast and has no intention of slowing or moving even though the new highway code has recently brought to light the duty of care to all road users. Yeah, makes sense that.

The one who said pretty much what you said about in your second paragraph

However, you’re on a bike, you’re vulnerable but also far more manoeuverable than a car. In the interests of self preservation I would’ve taken to the causeway and carried on my way.

…can’t see how funding affects decision making.

Really, where have you been living for the least 12 years or so?

Because anything difficult, contentious or costly gets binned straight away. There aren’t the resources to deal with “minor” matters nor to deploy staff on them, that’s not just policing but right across public services.

Change the Thread title to - "I had an interaction with a driver and wasn't happy with the outcome, so I complained to the police who decided no crime had been committed so didn't persue it...." Insted of "Are the Police useless?"
Are the Police who caught the lowlife who murdered the 9 yr old in Liverpool useless, or the Cops who are out there day in day out dealing with all the cr~p a broken society deals them each shift.
Do something useful, put in a Freedom of Information act request and find out just how many response cops are on duty today and tonight. Then find out how many immediate calls they have stacked up.
Then, when you see the scale of the problem they have to deal with and the numbers of boots on the ground, come on here and twine about how useless the cops are. Or replace cops with Paramedics/Nurses/Doctors/Teachers etc

###Rant over#### marks out of 10 please.

marks out of 10 please

Doing well until

come on here and twine

When you lost your thread a bit so 7.5/10

He was in the wrong to apparently not slow or give any care at all, never mind not pulling into the gap.

I don't think he was wrong coming through as I doubt either if you could see each other when you started passing the parked cars. It's not a ROW issue, but see above.

However, I would have just muttered arsehole and nipped on the pavement. The taking primary and forcing him to go in the gap would likely have caused even more conflict with such a nob.

Can't say I'd have contacted the police as I've had much worse with no interest from them. Probably why I'd have just hopped to the pavement, muttered, and carried on.