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its nothing like that expensive. Maybe just nudging 6 figures, but not even close to £1m
A story from years ago, c.2012 was repatriation from New Zealand via private air ambulance (coma, life support) was in the region of £187,000.
That's a massively more complex flight than transatlantic.
For years, medical expense cover was either 5m or 10m and noone got anywhere near. Even £1m was massively high. But with US intensive care being somewhere $10-$30k per night, for a month that's knocking on £700k just for the bed.
So, while I doubt this one will go near 15m, it's going to be chunky. And it may end up going back on the driver, but insurance coverage over there isn't like the UK and it's simply not as "simple" as it is over here.
For years, medical expense cover was either 5m or 10m and noone got anywhere near.
Yup, they basically throw in the big numbers just for marketing. Many, many, moons ago I worked for Direct Line. Their record at the time wasn’t even £200k, as they always took the “repatriate asap” option instead.
@paddy0091 There was a thing on the War on Cars a while back about US car insurance often having very low (by EU/UK standards) third party claim limits, so even if it paid out, it might not go all that far.
And as also mentioned US healthcare costs are considerable.
its nothing like that expensive. Maybe just nudging 6 figures, but not even close to £1mm
It's literally what I do for a living, but thanks for the insight
Care won’t be on the NHS as the treatment started privately.
Really - I've known plenty of people injured overseas that received necessary ongoing treatment for the injury on their return to the UK within the NHS.
Closer to home I saw a gofundme recently for a fella who had a pretty bad accident while mountain biking.
Guy is self employed and is now not going to be able to work for some months while recovering.
I know it's not the big ticket figures of overseas care - but surely if your hobby can potentially wipe out your income you would get some insurance for that? Seems madness not to!
Gran with serious health conditions declines to get travel insurance due to being quoted £3k (although can afford 4 week holiday to Florida!) Can anyone guess what happens next?
Care won’t be on the NHS as the treatment started privately.
This used to be the case but is so no longer
TBF the daughter seems to come across quite well.
She does, unfortunately she is absolutely in a no win situation there.
Oof, that's going to be expensive. 5 days intensive care then weeks on a lesser ward in a US hospital. That 50k target ain't going to touch the sides.
The daughter doesn't come across that well of you follow through to the go fund me page, she only bunged in fifty quid. 😀
That’s a sad story and must be awful for the daughter who tried to convince her not to travel without insurance. I wonder if the sons had similar advice? It’d be heartbreaking to have to leave her there.
I suppose one takeaway from that story is that it explains exactly why the premium quoted was “high”, in so far the risk of a medical issue has come to be. Close call there for underwriters not being taken up with the quote, terrible call for the family not taking it out.
Stupidity.
What happens if they cannot pay ? I dont think the US has debtors prisons, and would any debt collection work here :/
Maybe someone just has to declare themselves bankrupt, like plenty of Americans do.
Medical debt is the leading cause of bankruptcy in the United States, accounting for 66.5% of bankruptcies:
(Sauce - Google AI search result).
What happens if they cannot pay ?
AIUI (but could well be wrong!) the hospital have a duty to stabilise the patient, but not to provide any ongoing treatment. This is because they can't actually force the patient/family to pay the bills. So the family just need to cover the repatriation expense, the gran never returns to the US, and the hospital writes it off. Best-case scenario possibly?
From that latest story, the family got the price of repatriation down to £111k (or less with a commercial flight). And there's a company quoted elsewhere on the thread saying about £140k ish.
Just mindful that @BoardinBob works in the industry, but said the repatriation cost would be around £1m.
Can you explain why there's such a difference in the rates being (apparently) charged?
Another one. Quad biking this time.
Saw someone mentioned bank account-bundled insurance earlier.
Thought I'd chip in with some praise for Nationwide's Flex Plus account, (which is now £18/month)
It comes with worldwide family cover for the whole year - includes winter sports etc. I've claimed quite a few times - most notably when my son went headfirst into a pavement in Vermont and needed stitches on his face. Panicking, I told the hotel not to call an ambulance after reading some horror stories about the cost and mentally quadruple checking that I had checked that we were covered. Got the bleeding under control and drove him to hospital. 8 stitches in his forehead then we had to find a clinic a week later in another state to take them out. Bill came to about £3k. Insurance paid out really quickly with very few questions.
I've also claimed for lost luggage, xrays and extra nights in hotels due to delays and they often don't even want to see proof of payment.
Also has UK and European AA cover for the whole family which on it's own would be a big chunk of the annual fee. plus mobile phone cover that sent a new phone next day after I lost mine.
Insurance industry has a bad reputation in the UK, but I've really been happy with this service so thought I'd share.
Another one. Quad biking this time.
It's always their "dream holiday" and never just a normal "all we could afford to be honest" holiday, innit?
Possibly daft question...
Let's say you have previously had (for example) a tia. I'm going to assume that travel insurance to cover what would be deemed a pre existing condition would be extremely high. Are there no reciprocal arrangements between countries to cover such events?
In my case I was diagnosed 5 years ago with a minor blockage in one of my coronary arteries. I only know about it because I was investigated for something else. It causes no symptoms, doesn't interupt blood flow, and according to the cardiologist similar would be found in a large proportion of folks my age, if they checked for these things, which they don't
But because I know I need to declare it when applying for Insurance and it's nearly always then put down as not covered as a preexisting condition. This despite fact I'm apparently at zero additional risk than you average bloke, and probably far less so than some of the folks you see rolling about the beach in spain
not on the same scale of seriousness, but when I got Bupa through work I had to declare previous issues so I wasn't covered for anything related to my knee due to a rugby injury. A few years later I was able to remove that as a pre-existing condition because there had been no recurrence or need for treatment in the interim. While you would probably still need to declare it, there may be a sliding scale of importance if you have had no problem.
Relating to my earlier comment about the poor reputation of the insurance industry - people tend to think that they will do anything to worm out of paying a claim. Failing to declare something is probably a pretty good way of ensuring that happens - even if you end up trying to claim for something completely unconnected.
Let’s say you have previously had (for example) a tia. I’m going to assume that travel insurance to cover what would be deemed a pre existing condition would be extremely high. Are there no reciprocal arrangements between countries to cover such events?
"It depends". If asked questions that this falls under you declare it and they'll tell you if it's covered (some companies would cover it, some just dont touch anything pre-existing related, some sit somewhere in the middle). If not asked then you need to check the policy wording very carefully. However, as it would be deemed a heart condition you're heading into the world of specialist insurance. Not necessarily a bad thing though as they should understand the risk and will be able to advise accordingly.
Reciprocal agreements are only a very small part of a possible solution. E.g. they dont cover; someone staying out with the patient, changes to flights home, repatriation flights and so on. So the bills can still end up massive.
It’s always their “dream holiday” and never just a normal “all we could afford to be honest” holiday, innit?
Interestingly, in the quad biking article, the family themselves are never quoted as saying 'dream holiday'. That term appears to have been inserted into the story by the tabloid.
Interestingly, in the quad biking article, the family themselves are never quoted as saying ‘dream holiday’.
And yet it is literally used twice in the article, within quote marks. Who are they quoting then?! Piss-poor "journalism" at its finest 🙂
TBH I felt a bit sorry for the people in the quad story, I just don’t think people realise the risk and it doesn’t look like they were properly dressed for it 🙁
Are there no reciprocal arrangements between countries to cover such events?
Well there's the GHIC card, which is meant as a replacement for the EHIC card available while we were in the EU. But I don't think it's worth anything.
And i suspect the UK government aren't going to enter into any arrangements w the US and fund stupidity like the lady in florida. So travel insurance is mandatory really. And if you have anything preexisting go to a specialist who can look at it in more detail.
TBH I felt a bit sorry for the people in the quad story, I just don’t think people realise the risk
Yeah, but ignorance is not really a defence
Some of the less intellectually endowed distant relatives on MrsEpic's side have been talking about trips w/out insurance. fortunately they've so far been persuaded to take insurance or not travel. One of them is bound to FAFO at some point, and they'll get no sympathy here.
Quad biking is rarely covered and not advised for a novice.
Has heart attack. Doesn't tell insurer. Goes on holiday to get over heart attack.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cpd11zq3engo.amp
Chap (seemingly) goes on bender with mates to Thailand, gets attacked. No medical cover.
Any travel insurance I have looked at has being drunk in the exclusions anyway. So he may be no worse off than he would have been with a policy in place
Any travel insurance I have looked at has being drunk in the exclusions anyway. So he may be no worse off than he would have been with a policy in place
Tough to reject the claim on the basis that he beat himself up because he was drunk though. If he'd fallen down a flight of stairs or something because he was drinking, that's the sort of time that exclusion could kick in
Any travel insurance I have looked at has being drunk in the exclusions anyway. So he may be no worse off than he would have been with a policy in place
Although I don't doubt he was, there's not even any suggestion in the article that he'd been drinking, and seemingly no witnesses to whatever happened & no evidence either way. Unless he was daft & admitted it to the insurance company when asked what happened (like that squaddie who went hiking in flip-flops!) they'd have no basis to deny the claim.
Agreed. There are some cases where the ombudsman has taken that point. There was one I remember were the claimant admitted to a few drinks, and then was flattened by a car being driven at night without lights at speed (and I think the driver was drunk). Insurer said no claim due to alcohol. Ombudsman made them pay.
Similarly years ago there was something about a teen falling off the back of a scooter while tiddly, with no helmet. Something was talked about that if she was sober, she'd have had her helmet on. But because a bit drunk, she didn't and suffered a fractured skull. Can't remember what happened in the end. She had the helmet in her hand.
"not even any suggestion in the article that he'd been drinking, and seemingly no witnesses to whatever happened & no evidence either way. "
Presumably hospital blood tests? While the article doesn't mention alcohol and he may in fact be teetotal usually a night "partying" involves alcohol.
https://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/news/25231936.ashton-jones-fighting-life-thailand/
It is an interesting question though. The ombudsman seems to say two or three drinks is OK. Many holidaymakers will be well over. The motto would seem to be deny everything. Say you had two pints. Up to the insurer to prove different.
https://www.theguardian.com/money/2014/sep/23/ombudsman-insurance-claims-alcohol-abuse
Also a bit of pot luck as to what Ombudsman reviews your claim?
"If you go to a stag party in Magaluf and have an accident on the way back from the bar to your hotel, how much do you need to drink to have your travel insurance claim declined? Nine drinks spaced over several hours was not enough according to Ombudsman Timothy Bailey. In another case, however, where a Mr. J had had ‘a couple of drinks but nothing silly’ before his accident the ombudsman, Joe Scott accepted that his judgment was clouded by his drinking and upheld the refusal of the insurer to pay the claim."
https://www.ias.org.uk/2020/11/18/alcohol-problems-and-insurance/
While the article doesn't mention alcohol and he may in fact be teetotal usually a night "partying" involves alcohol.
Other drugs are, apparently, available. 😉
Sounds like a an issue people should probably be aware of. Kind of obvious when you think about it but given Christmas and holidays are the two times of the year when people drink the most....Obviously the vast vast majority of people get away with it as even if they have an issue where alcohol 'may' have played a part they are still walking wounded and the costs won't have become 'sell your house' levels.
Similarly years ago there was something about a teen falling off the back of a scooter while tiddly, with no helmet. Something was talked about that if she was sober, she'd have had her helmet on. But because a bit drunk, she didn't and suffered a fractured skull. Can't remember what happened in the end. She had the helmet in her hand.
Scooters and mopeds are generally excluded anyway, but (tellingly) having a full licence and hiring a motorbike is ok