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I've noticed a lot of local clubs offering massively discounted membership fees. I've also noticed very few players out on the fairways and greens. I know it's winter now but I noticed the same thing during our thermonuclear summer.
One particular club is offering memberships from £250. Back in the mid nineties, the same club was charging £800 and had a two year+ waiting list.
Is this peculiar to my locale or have others noticed similar?
Cutbacks in company perks I would expect.
All they need to do is convert to a bike park and people would pay the fees.
better use of the land too
Get a bike and do some real excersise.
Yep golf clubs are suffering, they over-expanded in the 90s and early 2000s on the back of interest in Tiger Woods.
Golf is too elitist and a very hard game to play, a new place has opened up near me with things like golf football to try and rekindle interest in the game, but I think it's golden era is over.
Lots of golf courses will be turned into housing estates.
2016 figures but 1.5 million is still quite a lot. And the estimate is from an org that wants to up the numbers, clearly.
There are an estimated 1.5 million adult golfers in the UK who play at least once a week, almost twice the regular participation rate of tennis (825,343) or badminton (825,962), and 3.9 million adult golfers who play at least once a year.
I've seen the signs too. I don't know anyone who plays any more. 20 years ago I was told to take up the game as a way to meet / network for work, I tried it, but I hated it.
Now it just doesn't come up nearly as often, if at all - people's hobbies seem a lot more diverse, lots of cyclists, but more so than any group now seems to be the football players, there's an artificial 5 a side place down the road from me, it's busy 7 nights a week year round.
I pass the entrance to a course fairly often, the people who are coming and going mostly look 60+
I blame E-bikes...
You've just noticed? Been happening for over 10 years. Too time consuming for anyone but retirees and shift workers.
Mrs BigJohn has just taken it up and joined a local club - one of those ones that got taken in by the shysters who said "we'll build you a brand new fantastic course for nothing" and has been playing host to a never-ending procession of landfill-laden lorries for the last few years.
Anyway, she's been welcomed warmly by the existing members as "it's nice to see some young faces joining". She's 63 FFS.
Club local to me (Southwood, Nr farnborough) closed in october, one of eight owned by Mack Golf, who ceased trading due to “unavoidable financial difficulties”.
Site was going to be turned into Green Space anyway next year.
Lol @ bigjohn!
It's a dead sport. Lots of golfists but a very ageing player base. We've got some friends in the trade and the stories about over-entitlement are hilarious and scary.
Best one recently was a major refurb of a clubhouse - a kind of stately house affair. Everything planned, agreed, funded, project managed, etc etc. Work commenced, contractors in doing work. Captain turns up for his usual round and... explodes. Work stopped, emergency meeting called. Manager nearly sacked on the spot. Why? They'd suspended "his" parking space as part of the work.
Every story I hear makes me wonder why the sport carries on - sadly I can see MTBing heading down the same route in a bizarre kind of way.
I saw a report which said that increasingly golf club members are too decrepit to play anymore and unless there's a sudden influx of younger members, most clubs are in decline. The fact that many clubs are now in prime development areas and land values increased considerably, it's probably quite an attractive proposition to "sell up" and distribute the proceeds amongst the members. Given the type of "old duffers" who frequent them, I can't see anything but a terminal decline.
I'd heard from a couple of younger guys I know who play that the tightening up of drink driving laws has stopped some people, no more casual pints back at the club house at the end of a round.
20 years ago I was told to take up the game as a way to meet / network for work
My mum used to bang on about that. I said if anyone wanted to "meet" they could come rock climbing with me.
Every story I hear makes me wonder why the sport carries on – sadly I can see MTBing heading down the same route in a bizarre kind of way.
Bit dramatic.
Golf knows it needs youths, but the truly elitist clubs just can't let go. It's 150 quid for a kids membership at royal Troon. Sounds brilliant, but in reality it's no happening, as you need proposed by 3 members, there's hardly any members and their all geriatric gammoners who would hate having kids on the course as much as they hate having women on there.
Mate of mine is trying to get in, hrs a partner in a large accounts firm, wants it for corporate baw licking, he needs to be proposed by 12 folk, nor allowed to ask or approach anyone, what a load of shite. 🤣
Mate of mine is trying to get in, hrs a partner in a large accounts firm, wants it for corporate baw licking, he needs to be proposed by 12 folk, nor allowed to ask or approach anyone, what a load of shite.
See, it's EXACTLY this kind of shit that puts people off - I think in 2019 people have worked out how the whole exchange of money for services thing works and don't want to beg to give away piles of cash to people in order to use their play ground for grown ups.
I wonder if the rise of facebook and other social media has harmed golf. People have a much easier way of showing off how much of a bellend they are now without needing to actually go visit a club to do so.
I wonder if the rise of facebook and other social media has harmed golf. People have a much easier way of showing off how much of a bellend they are now without needing to actually go visit a club to do so.
That's a bit of a leap perhaps, but the Internet and it's loudmouth off-spring S'media supposedly makes less inclined to actually see people in real life, although I also thought part of the draw of golf was to enjoy a perfectly manicured version of the world, throw a wall around in and keep those inside nicely spread out.
Perhaps allow selfie sticks to be carried in Golf Bags, I'm sure there's a rule governing golf bags, Golf Clubs love a rule.
Saying that, Social Media and FB especially is in the decline.
Saying that, Social Media and FB especially is in the decline.
I hope so.
Lots of golf courses will be turned into housing estates.
I think a lot of courses are development plays anyway, not really there to make money from golf, just to wash their faces until they can get permission to develop.
I love a bit of stick ball but i can wack a stone with a bit of driftwood all day long down at the beach. When you hit the sweet spot and the stone zings out to sea, it is one of life's little pleasures. Why would I pay for that?
Seriously though, golf has an image problem, and it's hard to see that changing anytime soon. I know it's not all clubs, but the whole 'women not permitted' at the Royal & Ancient or wherever it was sucks the proverbial big one. I mean, in the 21st century? And the wiff of that kind of misogynistic BS takes a long time to disperse. Probably a generation.
I seem to remember golf being promoted through the active schools in scotland, on the basis that it is learning a lifelong activity. So you may have giving up hucking gap jumps when you're 50, but you'll still be walking round a course thrashing a stick and ball in the undergrowth well into your retirement. And that is not a bad thing.
used to play a lot at the local municipal, was £1.25 a round (with concessions) at one stage in the late 80's, used to play 3 rounds a day in June. It was moved to private management and prices went up and the course went to crap really quickly.
Tiger Woods and Seve were the only golf players who could be labelled anything near cool; but one is dead and the other struggles to hit the ball straight these days.
Peter Cook played golf but said he typically despised the average golfer he met on his rounds.
I used to play a lot - single figures at age 15 - and met some really good people, typically the coaches, but the whole vibe is very formal, more like a private members club. They did try to reach out to the yoof a bit when i was young but not for a sustained period of time.
Id also mention another reason - boys typically start playing with their dads. Now a lot of boys don't see their dads so much due to work or divorce.
Royal Birkdale is just up the road. On the rota for the Open Championship.
You cannot apply to be a member. You cannot ask about becoming a member. You have to wait until an existing member approaches you and asks if you fancy joining. Joining means going on the provisional list for a minimum of 12 months where your every behavious is scrutinised. This includes parking your car tidily (the "right" car, of course), doffing your proverbial cap to your betters and elders without prompting, always allowing the captain to play through, buying the right amount of food and drink in the clubhouse and perhaps most important of all having a wife who will fit in doing the things that wives are expected to do. Women can't be members but they can make sarnies, lay the table and wash up. They also cannot be seen, with or without their husbands, in the strictly men only male bar.
It's a wonderful club, or so I'm told. I'm with Groucho Marx when it comes to golf clubs.
Very much so. Hence the rise of footgolf. Great laugh and very accessible.
It used to be a huge thing in my industry for corp hosp. Now more looking a sailing, rugby etc.
I also think the tightening of the bribery laws had an impact.
Royal Birkdale is just up the road. On the rota for the Open Championship.
You cannot apply to be a member.
Sounds..... shite. Why be a member there, when most "members" are indeed "members"
Private clubs I'm all in favour of, not when they exclude race or gender though.
It's not just Golf thats suffering shrinking memberships through, Sailing is suffering in the same way too. Our Club has opened it's membership out to all sorts of random odds n sods who'd never seen water before never mind a boat.. well maybe in a cartoon.🤪
So, we've opened memberships up and lowered fees and that just brings morons and chancers who put nothing into the club or take any kind of care over the facilities.
It's a tricky balance, open memberships up and suffer the moaning or restrict memberships and suffer the moaning.
Golf though, well thats a particularly special case. It needs special people to belong, and as long as that type of person is restricted to travelling between Home and the Golf Club and not let out in society then I'm all for it. Jags and Beige and Gammon, thats all they are.
rene...
Saying that, Social Media and FB especially is in the decline.
I hope so.
Why
Ironically corporate "cycling" days are now quite common - a few friends act as ride leader for them to drag a bunch of mamils and mawils and their clients around a pre-arranged route with support and refreshments laid on.
My mum plays golf a couple of times a week on a local course and looks like she could outlive me easily. Not even slightly elitist at a local level and another form of social club. If there are still local courses when I retire I am signing up but probably not before
Sailing's an odd one, every club you go to has a thriving oppie fleet. A handful of toppers/fevas, and one person under 25 in a Laser.
They then all reappear in their 40's with kids, who join the oppie fleet and the process repeats.
But other than that it's really hard to retain members.
Sounds….. shite. Why be a member there, when most “members” are indeed “members”
Social standing. Pure and simple snobbery.
Kenny Dalglish (Sir Kenny), Alan Hansen and a host of footballers of renown and wealth who all live less than 0.5 miles from the course, are not members because they are not of the right social class.
our municipal course back home shut down recently, and was apparently losing £200k per year
there's a bowls place too which remains open, and a separate athletics ground which is also unaffected.
no plans for what will happen to the site... which to me suggests development
Social standing. Pure and simple snobbery.
Kenny Dalglish (Sir Kenny), Alan Hansen and a host of footballers of renown and wealth who all live less than 0.5 miles from the course, are not members because they are not of the right social class.
Depends if they want to be a member surely?
Is Llandegla elitist because ex Liverpool players haven't been spotted riding there?
rene…
Saying that, Social Media and FB especially is in the decline.
I hope so.
Why
Because I think they are being (mis)used far too much for bullshit reasons and are wrecking the lives of those addicted to them. I think overall the way they are currently used as echo chambers is harmful to society as a whole and the way they are used as a tool to go on witch hunts and jump on bandwagons are destroying lives. I hope their use declines back to the point where they are simply used for useful social reasons.
I haven’t hit a golf ball in 20 odd years and I’m thinking about getting back in to it. Half my family are in the golf world, 2 uncles are club pro’s, cousin 1 trying to get on to the European Tour, cousin 2 works for a golf clothing company and is off scratch, my brother is off scratch, a few mates who I used to play with are pros now, one at a leading Midlands club and two have teamed up together and have a YouTube channel with 500k subscribers, millions of views and have just been in Florida for new Taylor Made kit launch where they’ve been caddying for and doing coaching videos with Tiger Woods and Rory... Kinda wish I kept playing in my teens now!
Apart from footballers and cricketers it's not something I hear much of in conversation these days, my ride to work goes past about 4 clubs, none of which seem busy at all, just the warnings about being taken out by golf balls.
As some have said lots of prime housing land that could be put to much better use for a much better return. Happy to leave that as parkland if it was but as a pay to access green space in the middle of busy cities happy to see them go.
When i moved to Surrey I could not believe the number of golf courses. However, I’d ride over Sunningdale just about every day and it always seemed largely deserted.
Hard to think why it's losing popularity
It’s not just Golf thats suffering shrinking memberships through, Sailing is suffering in the same way too. Our Club has opened it’s membership out to all sorts of random odds n sods who’d never seen water before never mind a boat.. well maybe in a cartoon.🤪
@bikebuoy - you’re saying you have the directors of Seabourne Freight in your club? 😂
Not many have the time to play a full 18.
Golf as a game is rule heavy and I guess in a way that's good as it harks back to the old days and sporting honour etc. The whole club house small mindedness is unnecessary. I've been to a few Opens in the NW and granted there's a few typical golfers in the crowd but there's an awful lot of 'normal' folk.
I think par 3 9 hole courses are the way forward for most players and the pros stick to the 18 longer holes.
Like the high street, British leisure time is changing to the detriment of long established institutions.
In general, it's a cracking game, mostly played by working class folks, lots of guys that aren't members of clubs, but play out of pubs and work clubs etc, it's not all money and handshakes.
Like our own sport, it's too easy to stereotype when looking from the outside in.
Well unless it's 'crazy golf' or even better multiplayer golf computer game, it's a bit boring.
I can't imagine ambling through 18 holes of boring terrain in real life is any kind of fun unless there's a sweet business deal to be made.
Ahh, I’m just having a moan at the self entitled idiots that think it’s ok to turn up.. let kids run riot, demand feeding and drinks provided then sod off home leaving a trail of unmutually assured destruction in their wake 😩😩😔
Golf though, as a sport and health provider I totally agree with. I think it’s a technical and fitness challenge that is both social and intimate. This I agree with and think the demise is sad, understandable but sad.
I know of two ex Pro Golfers, both very accomplished and pleasant people out in the human social network of this ere soociietttie... and both drive Jags and have opinions larger than their own combined ballwashers.
If you counter their opinion, it’s only theirs that matters.. 🤪🤪🤷♂️
Golf will be dead after the baby boomers are to inform to play. Personally aside from the members clubs I've never had an issue with it.
Cricket is going the same way both because amateurs don't have time to give up their whole Sunday and neither to spectators. It's a shame
I think par 3 9 hole courses are the way forward for most players and the pros stick to the 18 longer holes.
no, don't get the opertuinaty to give it some with the driver on most par 3's. i played until almost 4 years ago when i started mountainbiking most of the time on a 9 hole course but we always went round twice, the back nine had a couple of differant tees and one differant green. mix of par 3's and short 4's. was nothing like most clubs, farmer just built the course on the side of a hill so you got good views from the top as well.
Yes good point. I can't drive for toffee so was selfishly preferring the short game!
Eye opening thread as someone that has never played golf.
I sometimes walk through a course near to me as there is a lovely park next to it. Always many people enjoying the countryside there or walking their dogs.
Never see many people on the golf course and they don't walk anyway. They are almost always in golf carts!
Always comes across as a waste of a potentially lovely bit of landscape to me.
I played on the 27th Dec this year first time since last new years eve. Municipal course on the outskirts of derby, only a tenner for a round but reasonably well kept. It was busy and in good nick, must still be earning or the council would soon pull the plug.
It is a hateful game for a part timer though, I played a lot of sport as a youngster a did well with various county stuff and at uni (please swoon) but golf is so hard to get on with. It is so time consuming and I reckon you need to be playing 3 times a week to reach a good stamdard. It is plagued further by wanna be tigers who analyse every shot (usually with little success) before taking it therefore holding the entire course up and making your round even slower. 7 mile walk/zigzag on that day in near enough 4 hours dead, you can see why the term golfwidow was coined.
Hateful waste of space/time/money/resources. Can't die soon enough IMO.
Always comes across as a waste of a potentially lovely bit of landscape to me.
Not sure about that, a walk through old prestwick with the sunset catching all the undulations of a links course is lovely, what else would it be? Park? Farm? Wouldn't be as nice IMHO.
Hateful waste of space/time/money/resources. Can’t die soon enough IMO.
Supports a hell of a lot of jobs around here.
I think it’s a post error, meant to put that into the most recent ebike hate/love thread.
been living in Melbourne, Aus 5years and can think of 3 private clubs within 5km of where live that are now given over to housing development - typically 2500- 3000 homes / course is a figure I've seen
meanwhile one local council proposed reducing a municipal course to 9 hole (next to the bend 10 - i think - chicane if you watch Gran Prix).....
...During the previous engagement phase some respondents questioned the provision of such a large area of the park dedicated to 18 hole golf as a single use. Current trends across Australia, with people increasingly looking to do more in less time, see a shift towards shorter rounds of golf, with a rise in corporate and charity based golf events. A reduced course, retaining some of the original fairway layout, could appeal to a broader visitor market. To create a more attractive destination, the master plan also proposes relocating the golf driving range from the western side of the park....
Update
..........Community also overwhelmingly supported retaining the 18-hole golf course in its current form.
presumably they will all drop dead at some point
Bit dramatic.
Not necessarily. Bmx went from one of the really big sports in the 80’s to pretty much dying out in the 90’s. If it hadn’t been for the likes of Matt Hoffman and a couple of the big manufacturers who still did bikes it would have disappeared completely. It’s come back obviously but it looks a lot different to before the lull.
This could happen in MTB.
Not necessarily. Bmx went from one of the really big sports in the 80’s to pretty much dying out in the 90’s. If it hadn’t been for the likes of Matt Hoffman and a couple of the big manufacturers who still did bikes it would have disappeared completely. It’s come back obviously but it looks a lot different to before the lull.
This could happen in MTB.
times change - golf hasn't - think seeing in mtb a move (back sort of?) to natural adventure riding (gravel and bike packing) from trail centre riding (possibly maybe its just spread) Bmx racing is pretty active round where I live but mostly Dads from the 80's running clubs for their teens - kids seem more keen on vert/park/freestyle all moving on but no real estate issues .....
Bmx racing is pretty active
Don't know how old you are but I lived for BMX between 1979 and 1988 and it was massive. Go a race meeting now (even a national) and it is dead. Not really sure why it died out as a sport but it undeniably did.
I used to play a bit of golf in my 20's but the thing that ruined it for me was the slow pensioners in their groups of 4. More time was spent waiting at the tee than actually play golf. Sounds like I should give it another go if it is now quieter but imagine it is a brexiters playground so would now spend more time arguing with gammons that playing golf.
My Dad was and is a super keen golfer, I remember his pride when after many many years of paying pretty exhorbitant fees he was finally permitted to become thier youngest ever 'Full member'... he was 48 at the time if memory serves.
Whilst I'm sure there are exceptions (such as my Dad) Golf clubs do disproportionately seem to be repositories of that particular English 'jags, blazers and cucumber sandwiches' brand of right wing knobbery that for all its airs and graces is basically Tommy Robinson in a Pringle Sweater and Rupert the bear trousers.
No thanks.
The main reason I gave up golf was lack of time to improve. I was never a member of a club, being fortunate to have some very good and challenging local municipals.
My playing ability plateaued and I just had to accept that unless I increased my time on the course by at least a third, I'd never get any more proficient.
I did play at a couple of private clubs and have to say, the attitude and rule frenzy was objectionable.
The last time I was on a golf course, I was controlling vermin (club permission) with an FAC air rifle. Happy days.
waste of space/time/money/resources.
Sums up many activities when viewed from a righter than right perspective. Sports come and go. I raced x-c ski for years and despite the Olympic and World Cup coverage on TV the sport is nearly dead here. Some days I go out around 10:00 and mine are the first ski tracks, generally over lots of snow-shoe tracks. 25 years back no-one would have dreamed of walking around an X-C ski track with snow shoes.
My ex's Dad used to belong to a club in North Newcastle (Gosforth if you're familiar with the Toon) No asking about joining (You had to be proposed by existing members to join) no women (although recently that's changed) all the bar staff and wait staff were female though. lots of the members were medical consultants (Ex's Dad was a dentist who looked after many of them). To his credit He used to play a round and then foxtrot oscar, as he couldn't stand the obvious chauvinism, only stayed a member as he could walk there, which, as he once told me, raised eyebrows, as they thought he was hiding a cheap car from the committee!
At my old man's club they lifted the rule on no ladies being allowed in the terrace.
This rule was swiftly reapplied when two female members complained about the language two guys were using.
My old man likes golf and I used to (and even back in Blighty) still occasionally go to the range and knock a few balls off. It used to be a fun way to spend a summer afternoon with a few mates. £8 pay and play.
My old man has been at his for longer than I've been on this earth. I remember that me being allowed to go to the club house was quite an event. No jeans. No t-shirts, although polo neck was OK. No shorts.... The club house seemed rather grand with its big terrace and restaurant.
We went there the other week. A lot has changed. The restaurant is closed and now used as a wedding venue. The new restaurant is the old spikes bar (the only indoor area you could wear your spikes). It all stinks of former glory. As though it's hanging onto its past.
Membership is well down (Stockbroker belt) and the club has reduced its rates to encourage new members.
A few of my colleagues play, 1 is really into it, the others play most weekends. But only 1 is a club member, the rest play where they can. Interestingly, the one in the club loves the pomp and circumstance of it all, the others hate it, hence not being members.
It’s not for me though, though I guess riding bikes and running all day doesn’t appeal to them either.
Isn’t it just cursed by the English disease of taking something that could actually be good fun, then attaching enough pointless rules, class based conventions and outright snobbery to it that it sucks all the joy out of it?
I was reading an interview with Alice Cooper with him saying how him and his mates have always played golf, and it sounds like in the states it has none of that snobbish cobblers attached to it, generally.
If they’re suffering, then they need to drag themselves into the 21st century, or deservedly die
I’m sure the country could benefit from building plenty of houses on all those golf courses
I used to play as a kid until I realised I didn't enjoy it. Too.much walking, not enough action and not enough time to get the technique right. Too technical.
It's not like MTB because there's only one way to play, only one game. There are a dozen ways to ride an MTB to suit your temperament, lifestyle and lifestyle.
Isn’t it just cursed by the English disease of taking something that could actually be good fun, then attaching enough pointless rules, class based conventions and outright snobbery to it that it sucks all the joy out of it?
A Scottish invention with the rules set by us Scots
Club sessions at the Lee Valley Velodrome are now very hard to come by due to corporate events. Just saying...
My father played off scratch, caddied instead of studied and could’ve been a pro. If he’d lived long enough, I’d probably of played seriously. My mother used to push me and my sister around the courses.
Might take it up one day. I see all sorts playing locally at our small club and especially the guy in a mobility scooter. Good for him.
Leeds bike park used to be a municipal golf course 😁
I played a lot in my teens and twenties and loved the game but stopped playing regularly when the kids came along. Its too time consuming and the lack of flexible membership options/fee structures at most clubs means its prohibitive to anyone who can’t commit to playing at least weekly if not more often. Most won’t change though as those making the decisions would probably rather see the club fold than move into this century.
There are some forward thinking clubs but they’re in the minority. The Birkdales will be fine as there’s enough prestige there to ensure a steady stream of punters, and the well run muni’s and forward thinking clubs that embrace younger members will be ok too. It’s the ‘wannabe’ Birkdales that will go under. Good courses but without the prestige to keep enough demand. Their desire to preserve the old school traditional model will see the clubs die with their ageing memberships. Some won’t be a loss at all, but for others it will be a crying shame.
If you take away the ‘club’ side of it and focus just on the game itself, it’s a wonderful pastime. Outdoors in often beautiful surroundings, few hours with mates doing something social other than say drinking, escape from the grind, physical and mental challenge, need for self discipline, shiny things to waste your money on if you want (or not). What’s not to like.
About the same proportion of surrey is covered in golf courses as is built-up. For such a minority pursuit it's a totally disproportionate resource hog.
I played for the first time in five years. I’m very poor but enjoyed being out with mates. I used to play a lot but far too time consuming nowadays. Very difficult to pick up if not played from an early age.
If i loads of time ie retired I would play more but I’m not rushing back.
Regarding the enormous resource hog the worst I have seen are the courses in the arid states of the USA. The water consumption must be enormous for those places and again I’d imagine the water use in some of the south east courses of the UK must be pretty big.
Wouldn’t be sad to see the kind of backward looking and status driven clubs fold leaving clubs where people can play without having to commit huge amounts of time to brown nosing some old git
I think this year Sunningdale didn’t have a drop of rain for 8 weeks or something daft. The greens looked fine but the fairways were burnt dry.
Used to play from a Early age, my Gran and Grandpa used to be members of a local golf club and I was encouraged to take it up and became quite good.
Played 3-4 times a week during summer with my mates as I got older. Then at 18 it took a back seat for booze, women and motorbikes.
Fifteen years later and I've just started playing again, the local course isn't snobby at all with a good mix of young and old, it's only a ten minute walk.
I usually play once a week now with mates or solo.
Driving range twice a week or more.
Someone parked in your designated space Thecaptain? 😝
I agree and have seen the decline. In-laws live on the Wirral and the council is steam rollering all opposition to make the peninsular a ‘major golf desination’. A new course, building on green belt for hotels and some incredibly sensitive land which sees use from a lot of the wading birds from the estuary (wintering numbers/species make the area important on European levels). Council it seems are going to make it happen at all costs, despite opposition and evidence of most of the above posts in this thread. Bonkers.
My boss is a bad advertisement for golf, crude, boorish, bullying, an agressive and quite dangerous driver, full of bigoted opinions..... half of every overseas sales trip is spent on the golf course as all of our overseas offices are managed by people who are golfers. At the moment he's enjoying himself taking pops at my broken collar bone caused by crashing while cycling.
Council it seems are going to make it happen at all costs, despite opposition and evidence of most of the above posts in this thread. Bonkers.
There is a difference between the golf tourist and the amateur player, plenty of time rich, cash rich blokes playing the game and enjoying the hospitality at that level (footballers etc.) the resorts get them in and contain their spending and will get the ones who can't just pay to get into the snobby venues. One of the things that could actually hammer the local golf club more.
Kind of agree with that Mike Especially as they have/will sell off the municiple course for this project. My annoyance with it is the potential environmental impact.