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That can't believe a country in the supposed civilised world actually has to hold a referendum about this?. Makes the republic look pretty backward.
The church innit.
Certain sections of society and the establishment still hold a fear for gay rights, at least forward thinking people pushed for a referendum and allowed both the no and yes camps to have a say, the people decided, it wasnt forced on people it was democracy.
Think if it's a change to the constitution its has to have a public referendum...
Irrespective of the topic...
hats off to them for holding it - and for the populace to reinforce what (presumably) the politicians wanted to happen.
Allowing same-sex marriage requires an amendment the constitution which requires a referendum because the constitution can't just be altered when the legislature feels like it
And because the UK doesn't have a written constitution they don't HAVE to hold referendums (referendi?).
Before anyone asks like 😉
[url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Savita_Halappanavar ]Having the referendum makes them look pretty civilised compared to this.[/url]
Considering its a country thats exported its catholic pedo priests to the four corners of the globe to bugger choir boys and vulnerable kids on an industrial scale its quite a result!
Welcome to the 21st century ireland!
Am I right in thinking abortion is still illegal there?
Ireland and Scotland lead the way when it comes to good government in these islands. Westminster is miles behind.
It was still the wrong referendum to have. The state shouldn't have any role in marriage.
It was still the wrong referendum to have. The state shouldn't have any role in marriage.
Who should then?
It was still the wrong referendum to have.
It was an excellent referendum to have - the state asked the people if they wanted to step away from the superstition of religion to an exceptance of equality for a small ( abeit vocal ) minority.
Equality won.
The people saying "I do", or whatever they have chosen to say. Nowt to do with the state to endorse one particular way of (consenting adults of sound mind) living together over another.
Still agree it was a good referendum to have, and happy with the result.
Ireland and Scotland lead the way when it comes to good government in these islands. Westminster is miles behind.
The Sexual Offences Act 1967 is an Act of Parliament in the United Kingdom (citation 1967 c. 60). It decriminalised homosexual acts in private between two men, both of whom had to have attained the age of 21. The Act applied only to England and Wales and did not cover the Merchant Navy or the Armed Forces. Homosexuality was decriminalised in Scotland by the Criminal Justice (Scotland) Act 1980 and in Northern Ireland by the Homosexual Offences (Northern Ireland) Order 1982.
13 years before us and 15 before NI.
Just saying.
The people should always choose.
However if a turnout isnt a majority and there isnt an overwhelming majority winning I question whether referendums represent ALL the people.
as it is the REPUBLIC of Ireland, as in peoples republic we held a referendum to ask the people, not the politicians, what they wanted. Pretty sensible if you ask me. This way we get it written into law properly.
midlifecrashes - Member
The people saying "I do", or whatever they have chosen to say. Nowt to do with the state to endorse one particular way of (consenting adults of sound mind) living together over another.
The constitution didn't allow everyone to marry, the only way to change that was a referendum.
Or you had a better idea?
The constitution didn't allow everyone to marry
It still doesn't. See polygamy/polyandry/polyamory.
If the law allows all those lifestyles, it shouldn't unnecessarily favour marriage of any kind with recognition, privelages and tax breaks.
Jesus wept.
That can't believe a country in the supposed civilised world actually has to hold a referendum about this?. Makes the republic look pretty backward.
Makes the OP look a bit of an ignoramus.
EDIT: and this fellow:
It still doesn't. See polygamy/polyandry/polyamory.
it shouldn't unnecessarily favour marriage of any kind
Too right! At this year's Download Festival I'm planning on marrying my bike in the inflatable church - question is which one...?
The answer:
polyamory
Rock & roll!!
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For a decision which would have been unthinkable (due to attitudes) 20 years ago this is a generational change especially in a country that has such a strong conservative church influence. Apart from the legal aspect that they need to have the referendum it shows the populations opinion is strong. In many ways those on the extreme makes the most noise (see the UK General Election threads) and what you are really interested in is the views of the general population.
[i]It was still the wrong referendum to have. The state shouldn't have any role in marriage.
Who should then?[/i]
I'm going to have a wild flailing stab in the dark here but let's try, "The people who want to get married"
[i]Rock & roll!![/i]
I don't know what kind of marriage they're promoting but I'm all for it.
Having a written constitution which can't be changed by parliament means constitutional reform has to be passed by the people (see current Westminster government approach on human rights for why this is a good idea).
Some of the articles of the Irish constitution were (unsurprisingly) added in less enlightened times, and will only be removed as society becomes more liberal. That is happening however, and is something to celebrate.
Can't help wondering how many of the yes votes were cast by urban dwellers who live within easy reach of the polling stations while the more traditional, conservative and Catholic older people who live in remove villages and hamlets and would have voted against, weren't able to get to vote.
I wonder what Catholic strongholds in Nigeria, Uganda and so on will make of this?
Not sure if it's been mentioned yet, but same sex marriage and abortions are [b] still illegal in northern Ireland[/b].
And if someone needs an abortion in NI, and goes to England for it (not sure about the other countries), the NHS won't cover it as NI's NHS should do it.
We really are very behind when it comes to not being a dick.
Globalti
The rural vote got out according to reports but only one (in the Roscommon area) polled a majority no vote. It could be the start of dis-establishment of church from state.
hora - Member
The people should always choose.
However if a turnout isnt a majority and there isnt an overwhelming majority winning I question whether referendums represent ALL the people.
POSTED 9 HOURS AGO # REPORT-POST
This is joke right? oh it's Hora, sadly I suspect it's not.
That can't believe a country in the supposed civilised world actually has to hold a referendum about this?. Makes the republic look pretty backward.
Well considering gay marriage has only been legal for a year in the UK - which is not in thrall to the Catholic church - I'd argue the Irish have done better than us.
I agree with the sentiment though. It's shameful that more of us weren't making our voices heard on this matter before, but then hindsight is a wonderful gift.
I wonder what Catholic strongholds in Nigeria, Uganda and so on will make of this?
Do you really? [i]Really[/i]?
The state shouldn't have any role in marriage.
It's a legal status with a number of implications. That's why it's of interest to the state.
Referendum for such a contentious issue was absolutely the right thing to do. Puts the issue to bed once and for all.
Parts of Ireland have voted against divorce and abortion in similar votes in the past. This result is very significant
The state shouldn't have any role in marriage.
As above once married you have a number of automatic rights, eg to apply to adopt children, inheritance tax. Also marriage is a legal status and the state determines a counties laws.
Did anyone else hear the headlines on R4 ?
"The people of Ireland haven't just said 'yes', they've said '**** Yeah!'"
Turns out the issue wasn't all that contentious...
jambalaya - Member
Puts the issue to bed once and for all.
Your coat, sir.....
Marvellous example of political engagement, and a great eye opener for the Catholic church that it's teachings are out of step with it's congregation.
Great comment from a woman on the news "I'm no longer less than others"
Oh well, seems I've misread the situation, not for the first time and I'm sure it won't be the last!. Didn't realise they needed constitutional change.
Suitably scolded. 😀
Also good comment on BBC news from a politician (not sure which one), said he went against his religious teaching because one of his sons is gay. He couldn't love him less then this other children, so supported the yes side.
Chakaping, you are confusing England with the UK again. Scotland has had same sex marriage for years and northern Ireland still doesn't have it (no idea about Wales though)
^ No we've not, just over a year actually since Holyrood passed the bill and only 5 months since it came into force. We were talking about it first but England got it passed before us.
Not sure what you're thinking of tbh.
As above once married [b]you have a number of automatic rights, eg to apply to adopt children[/b], inheritance tax. Also marriage is a legal status and the state determines a counties laws.
This is cobblers. There is no automatic right to apply to adopt children because you get married. You do not have to be married to adopt in England; you do not have to be heterosexual; you do not have to be part of a couple.
Can't help wondering how many of the yes votes were cast by urban dwellers who live within easy reach of the polling stations while the more traditional, conservative and Catholic older people who live in remove villages and hamlets and would have voted against, weren't able to get to vote.
Knock yourself out - turnout data by electorate is right here: http://electionsireland.org/results/referendum/refresult.cfm?ref=201534R
The Irish population is heavily urbanised anyway - 2/3 of the population lives in cities and suburbs: http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/urban-congestion-66-of-us-live-in-cities-and-suburbs-191986.html
I wonder what Catholic strongholds in Nigeria, Uganda and so on will make of this?
Who cares? I'd imagine they're more concerned with avoiding internecine conflict with other headbangers than what happens in a small country on the periphery of another continent.
The state shouldn't have any role in marriage.
Given it's a legally recognised status, covered by specific statute, the state should be the only body concerned with it (rather than say the church etc).
Ireland hasn't had an established church since 1871. The situation with schools and the religions is disgusting, but it could be a lot worse.