Irish property pipedream

I had a similar thought about 20 years ago but in France.The main thing that stopped was trying to answer "Why were these places abandoned?" and the answer always seemed to come back top either "No-one wants to live here" or "They will cost more to do up that they will ever be worth".

Not sure if that is the case over there so please don't let me piss on your dreams 🙂

If it was easy to make a profit, there would be companies doing it

I'd start by looking on Irish property websites. How much does a ruin Vs refurb cost. How fast do they sell. Why not ring some estate agents with ruins and referbs and ask them? I'm sure they would be delighted to sell you a property, then sell a refurbed property.

A developer bought a 3 bed ok place on my street. In 6 months it's been turned into a 5 bed palace, but didn't sell. It went from about 900k to 700k before selling. I guess caused by the mortgage rate increase. Is there something similar in Ireland? There were alot of people working on it Constantly for 6 months. I was impressed at them getting the different trades in so effectively. Will you have the contacts to do the same?

There is a barn in the peaks just outside of hope I'd been looking at for years. Someone has done it up beautifully. Looks like an owner occupier as I ride past. It looks a lot of work over a year.

I've never done it, I like living in cities. Good luck if you go for it

Why were these places abandoned?” and the answer always seemed to come back top either “No-one wants to live here” or “They will cost more to do up that they will ever be worth”.

Currently in Italy and they're are so many abandoned and ruined properties in amazing locations.

Usually that location is up a slippery dirt road, high on a ridge. Amazing views, but I dread to think what the costs of even getting the materials up there would be.

Coming round to the idea of building new rather than buying a shitton of problems....

https://www.davekaipiper.com/Journal/The-Forgotten-Homes-of-Ireland

I looked at some of the 1euro properties in Italy and the consensus appeared to be that if you spend, say, 75000 euros doing them up they'll be worth 75,000 euros, so no profit to be had. I'd imagine that simple fact keeps the big property investment companies away, but if you're doing it just for the experience, as long as the books balance, I'd imagine it'd be good fun. Plus there's the added benefit of returning a property to the area as a viable home again.

There were some areas in Ireland several years back where new-build estates were built and sat empty for many years, not sure what happened to them in the end, but I think the issue is that few people want to live in rural areas.

[i]Usually that location is up a slippery dirt road, high on a ridge. Amazing views, but I dread to think what the costs of even getting the materials up there would be.

Coming round to the idea of [s]building new rather than buying[/s] [b]my own truck with[/b] a shitton of problems…[/i]

Coming round to the idea of building new rather than buying my own truck with a shitton of problems…

Ha... I live in a van, yet I'm pleased to say after 18+ months of continued use there have been no problems due to the build/my workmanship. Had to service the diesel cooker the other week and getting the part was annoying, although was more down to the shitty Italian distributor.

I looked at some of the 1euro properties in Italy

Have looked into that, too. Generally the properties that are offered are a storm or two away from disintegrating. Also, many people end up having to shore up the building next door or fix the roofs of neighbouring properties to save their own. Also many places have a clause that you have to have at least the facade looking good after a year or two. If you don't manage that you are liable to fines and you'll lose the property.

It's sad that there are so many empty towns, but there's a reason the locals left these places. Poor access, tiny dwellings.

What are the regs about a non-Irish person buying property in Ireland?

Being Europe, you have 90 days of time unless you can apply for temporary or permanent residence as well surely?

Like the Oban thread, are you sure this is a place to hang your coat for even a short time?

Looking at the two houses you posted, by heck they are in out the way places...the island one looks like an hours drive to Galway and that would be the first place of any note?

Thanks all

 if you spend, say, 75000 euros doing them up they’ll be worth 75,000 euros, so no profit to be had. I’d imagine that simple fact keeps the big property investment companies away, but if you’re doing it just for the experience, as long as the books balance, I’d imagine it’d be good fun. Plus there’s the added benefit of returning a property to the area as a viable home again.

That is sort of my thinking. Also if I do the vast majority of the work myself then the cost is tiles, nails, glass, plaster, etc rather than roofer, glazier, plasterer, etc so hopefully the numbers move a bit in my favour.

Being Europe, you have 90 days of time unless you can apply for temporary or permanent residence as well surely?

I think this is a bit easier in Ireland with the Common Travel Area agreement between the two countries

Like the Oban thread, are you sure this is a place to hang your coat for even a short time?

Its an itch to scratch. Have been working there on and off for a few years. Really not sure I could move there permanently but a 6 month spell with a project sounds quite nice

The main thing that stopped was trying to answer “Why were these places abandoned?” and the answer always seemed to come back top either “No-one wants to live here”

Quite possibly, but looking at the two pics above you'll see both properties have similar but lived in properties around them. There may be other hidden issues, though

There were some areas in Ireland several years back where new-build estates were built and sat empty for many years, not sure what happened to them in the end, but I think the issue is that few people want to live in rural areas.

Was that not all part of some brown envelope planning corruption

Looking at the two houses you posted, by heck they are in out the way places…the island one looks like an hours drive to Galway and that would be the first place of any note?

The wild atlantic coast is a big draw for me but there are properties like this across Ireland. "Out of the way" is one of the tick boxes 🙂 Yes, 50 mins to Galway, but hopefully Screwfix will deliver, also 5 min walk to the beach

also 5 min walk to the beach

Fair point.
Well made.
Persuasive.

Parents have done this and my sister is currently building a monster of a house down the road from them in Manorcunningham. CTA/GFA means any British person can live/work/buy property in Ireland. Mum , sister and I have dual nationality but it's not entirely necessary. Planning permission could be an issue for a new build: my sister had to demonstrate familial links to the village they are building in.

Tread very, very carefully with purchasing any property in Donegal / Mayo built in the last 30 years. Yes they look stunning, but there is a national scandal regarding the breeze blocks used as some twonk added mica into the blend. Consequently many are literally falling down.

It's definitely doable if you have the skills, I know someone who renovated an abandoned pub recently and opened as a cafe with his partner who is a chef. Building was on historical buildings register which added a ton of cost and complications - Irish version of Listed status.

We have a house in Kerry, had it about a decade and a half at least now.

Theres no problem with Uk citizens living in Ireland, buying property, signing on etc, it’s a common travel area.

We gutted our house so no planning permission required, there was no building control inspection whatsoever.

Issues to be aware of; access to water - is it a well or a group water scheme. Utilities are likely to be electricity - no mains gas so we have oil for heating as well as turf.

Septic tank rules have greatly increased over the last few years.

Will post more later

Hmmm, interesting stuff...

Would love more info from those who have done this / are doing this

There were some areas in Ireland several years back where new-build estates were built and sat empty for many years, not sure what happened to them in the end, but I think the issue is that few people want to live in rural areas.

A lot of older houses sit empty for years for a variety of reasons:

People emigrated and nobody wants to come back now the last tenants have died

People die and leave the farm to family who have use for the land but no use for a house but are reluctant to sell it for various reasons

People don’t want old homes/ projects when they can buy a new build or build on their family land. When we bought ours a local architect said no local would have bought it as it was old and lacked decent phone coverage (and at the time mains water).

Building supplies are more expensive and good trades can be hard to find.

Never known any blow ins get hassle who weren’t arseholes to start off with and even that is fairly rare. A lot of locals are happy to see life being brought back to old properties.

There can be issues with rural life, much like in GB, we are a ten minute drive to the nearest shop and pub and twenty minutes to town so it is not too bad. On the plus side we are in the country and have deer roaming around our garden.

With regards to selling to make a profit, that’s much harder. A lot depends on location and whether another blow in 😉 would buy it. Around our way virtually everything that was for sale went in the lockdown & post lockdown era when foreign travel was curtailed or expensive. Stuff that had been on for a decade sold but Kerry is a real tourist hot spot, the wilds of Donegal less so (and for good reason;) )

Working from home has opened things up a bit but it can still be quite a difficult market for some houses. Our local community centre and hostel now has dedicated work pods with excellent internet speed for about €10 per day so remote working is becoming easier.  If you’re keen speak to the locals / check daft.ie to see what the market is like. An English guy at the end of our road bought a doer upper and now air b&bs it from gb and seems to do ok.

Gratuitous pics;

Our house, some outbuildings and boreen . A new roof, windows, porch and interior on the house. The long building is the original house which was replaced in the 1940s and set up as a cowshed - that’ll be our next project as either just a open room or extra accommodation.

I'd say why not as long as you think you can get your money back. What a great adventure to have. Planning a similar idea in Spain expect or hope to cover my costs no intention of making any money.

I can't help with any practicalities/advice but I have been following an Instagram account called "Cheap Irish Houses" which shows listings & photos of sub-100k Euro properties for sale (often a fraction of that) and it always has me yearning for one. Especially when my banking app cheerfully reminds me when I log on that if I'm looking for a mortgage with them, the average deposit for a first-time buyer in my area is only £65k 🙂

I've a couple of mates who moved to Mayo. The only tricky bit I heard about was some of the estate agents' 'preferred buyers' (when they can get a sale and a purchase). They found people friendly and welcoming and liked the properties being done up. I drove around Achill Island and the WAW to Galway a fortnight ago, it was stunning and we barely saw a soul but I'm told it's nothing like that in the summer.

We did this, but in France starting 21 years ago by buying a 200 yr old barn (That had been struck by a storm and had been rebuilt 5 years previously...so solid walls and new roof)
We have all but finished it now and live here. Hindsight being what it is, we would have been better all round buying a plot of land for €10k and having a new build to 2020 spec built...it would have been cheaper to do and cheaper to run...but wouldn't have had the 'character' the barn has. Windows, doors etc...nothing off the shelf fitted so all had to be made to measure. Forgetting the language barrier, the nearest big DIY place is 30 miles away. A trip there for stuff is half a day, not half an hour.
We did all the work to come and live here, not to do 6 mths then sell it and move on....a good job too as we would just about get back what we have put into it if we did sell up. No idea whether Ireland would be the same but perhaps think about who is likely to want to buy it come sale time...location/services/price etc If there was going to be some money to be made with all these derelict/unused properties, I suspect local builders would snap them up and do the work in and amongst customers work and have a nice sideline.

Thanks all. Some interesting points. Largely positive (when viewed through my rose tinted specs) which makes me think maybe it is slightly less of a pipedream. Another question for anyone in the know, if I buy it what bills might I have straight away? If it has been empty a while I presume the electric and water will have been cut off, if they were even there before. Will it be liable for some equivalent of council tax? Anything else? I'm think this project is best started in Spring so do I need to time my run and buy in the Winter or can I buy it anytime and sit on it for a bit?

I’m think this project is best started in Spring

Oh yes, you'll be in by Christmas, no problem.  Be sure to have a pregnant wife at the same time

Allow twice as long as you think.....then add a bit. That seems to be the way it goes over here. A work colleague is getting a small 2 story extension to the back of their house. Work started this week and they are hoping to be back in in 6 months but said they will be happy to have it done for December.

nickjb

Thanks all. Some interesting points. Largely positive (when viewed through my rose tinted specs) which makes me think maybe it is slightly less of a pipedream. Another question for anyone in the know, if I buy it what bills might I have straight away? If it has been empty a while I presume the electric and water will have been cut off, if they were even there before. Will it be liable for some equivalent of council tax? Anything else? I’m think this project is best started in Spring so do I need to time my run and buy in the Winter or can I buy it anytime and sit on it for a bit?

No council tax, but we do have a yearly property tax - comes to a couple of hundred euro max for a place like that, I'd say, you can check LPT.ie using postcode to get an estimate, not sure you'd be liable while house is derelict

Water, I'd guess somewhere that remote, you are drilling a well. Electricity, you'd be hoping it was there before, if not then hoping there's houses nearby with power. Electricity supply and Tax collection are two things the Irish government seem to do efficiently, to be fair.

Here is a link to the property tax in Ireland

https://www.revenue.ie/en/property/local-property-tax/lpt-liability/index.aspx

If you are buying a derelict house I don't think k you pay initially as the tax is only on habital property.

I’m out of touch, but there is a lot of talk of a tax on derelict property in Ireland to force people to either develop or sell, but that’s more likely to apply to property in urban and desirable locations. I think there are a lot of empty properties because people in Ireland know that once you sell land you will never be able to buy it back.

It’s sad that there are so many empty towns, but there’s a reason the locals left these places. Poor access, tiny dwellings.

In Spain it's rural poverty and the lack of jobs. Hopefully with WFH this has improved slightly, but certainly in my wife's home village there are quite a few abandoned places. We've got a place on the market - just the bare shell of a house, last inhabited by her grandfather 40+ years ago. 10,000€ advertised... but we'll be lucky to get that.

There were some areas in Ireland several years back where new-build estates were built and sat empty for many years, not sure what happened to them in the end, but I think the issue is that few people want to live in rural areas.
Was that not all part of some brown envelope planning corruption

I was watching an old Grand Designs earlier, about the idiot without a clue who wanted to build his own castle from a folly built in the 30’s or something, and at one point they showed streets of new-build houses sitting unsold, due to the Irish banking crisis.