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Breaking news on twitter etc.
Seems like we are just going down the pan at the moment
Evening Standard has the story.
In response to the one seized indirectly by the British off Gibraltar I wonder. Trump is gagging for a war to secure the next election and the Brits just seem to kowtow.
Well I guess that's Iran getting told on then...
Going down the pan? WTF are you on?
Let's hope for just a little tit for tat, and then move on otherwise things will heat up dramatically.. Crude has already hiked on the news as well..
@zanelad - well, we are likely to have an egotistical maniac with a history of gaffes towards foreign powers as leader next week so it seems to me escalation of aggression isn't ideal!
Potential for 2 tankers
Sauce.
well, we are likely to have an egotistical maniac with a history of gaffes towards foreign powers as leader next week so it seems to me escalation of aggression isn’t ideal!
Even worse he sees himself as Churchill & is desperate to distract from the absolute disaster he's helped create at home....
Oh no trump has just given an interview... There is an agreement, not a formal one but there's an agreement [with the UK]... Wink wink..
2 tankers confirmed and that's also on the day the US has short down an Iranian drone..
So trump and lyingblohard are to lay in front of the ships shouting “stop!”
Awesome.
Typographical error foils kidnap attempt on Boris and Farage. With UKs two biggest tankers hijacked.
Christ! It was embarrassing enough being America’s poodle under Blair.
I expect that will look like a model of almost colonial independence compared with what’s about to come
What would everyone like to happen?
(although no, don't start. We'll be getting a medieval history lecture before long)
Are the US going to send in the BoJo on a zipp wire to rescue the tankers ?
who will then end up looking like a tanker waving his union jack flag he waves in times of danger
Our valley is used as a low-fly training run and has been getting progressively quieter over the years. However, the past 2 weeks have seen more jets and choppers flying up here at floor level then in the past 3 years. Something is afoot, of that I am certain. Always seems to ramp up the training just before it kicks off.
Strangely, here in south of France we had fighter jets for the first time in ages.
Maybe they were just watching the millau viaduc.
2nd tanker is just heading east in a normal looking manner now
Edit: admittedly not looked as who’s water they’re in now
" Will invade Iran for trade deals."
@thestabaliser, chapeau sir.
Complete embarrassment for Britain - global first rate nation my arsehole. We don't have enough boats to even protect tankers in a relatively narrow strip of water.
ferrals
Member
Breaking news on twitter etc.Seems like we are just going down the pan at the moment
only if you watch the news, other than that, it's all looking good from here! 😆 blissful even!
We don’t have enough boats to even protect tankers in a relatively narrow strip of water.
Indeed we don't.
Unfortunately the UK has very much swallowed the "technology will solve all" pill, whereas often it's still very much boots on the ground (or in this case, in boats) that is required.
It's all well and good having a slack handful of Type 45 Destroyers, but when your foe arrives in many, small, fast attack boats rather than by air, then it could be argued that a fleet air defence vessel is a bit unwieldy.
Unfortunately Admirals, Generals and Air Marshalls seem to repeatedly push procurement teams to buy for the conflicts they 'want' rather than the ones they're likely to have.
There was a time not so long ago when the RN had a fairly sizable mine sweeping fleet based in the Gulf, which when it wasn't mine sweeping proved quite useful for escorting civil vessels.
Complete embarrassment for Britain – global first rate nation my arsehole. We don’t have enough boats to even protect tankers in a relatively narrow strip of water.
Not really. We have the 5th biggest navy in the world behind the usual super powers and Japan who’s always on a state of readiness with China. Anyone with half a brain cell can see what’s going on here. We seize one of their ships heading for Syria in the process of actioning international sanctions. In retaliation Iran is having a go back at us. Our navy has better things to do than escort every British registered ship passing the straights. In accordance with international law Iran shouldn’t be seizing ships in the first place. They're just looking to get some leverage out of desperation because the sanctions on them are really hurting and they want to save face with their allies and maintain the pretence the sanctions are not hurting. It’s a game. They can’t afford a war and don’t want it. They want bargaining chips.
Lord West, a former head of the Royal Navy, said the UK should not “pretend we’re surprised” by the Stena Impero incident. He told Sky News: “What I find extraordinary is that we knew that the Iranians would try something like this a few days ago.
“I’m absolutely amazed that we haven’t implemented some sort of control of red ensign shipping within the region whereby no tanker would go in to what is clearly a dangerous zone without an escort, and I find it bizarre that we seem to have ships doing exactly that.”
West said the British navy had “too few ships” and would find it “extremely difficult” to provide escorts to merchant vessels.
Wobbly, we might be the 5th largest in terms of spend but plenty of countries have a lot more destroyers, frigates and corvettes. Those are what matter for securing shipping lanes, big **** off carriers and blue water subs designed for fighting the Pacific War round 2 or bombing brown people aren’t.
Anti piracy work and freedom of navigation exercises are the bread and butter of what the Navy do these days.
Carrier battles aren’t.
It's a swedish ship, with no british people on board. It's registered in Britain so it sails under our flag, but that's all. What are the Swiss doing about it?
Northwind
Subscriber
It’s a swedish ship.What are the Swiss doing about it?
As much as Spain?
It’s a swedish ship, with no british people on board. It’s registered in Britain so it sails under our flag, but that’s all. What are the Swiss doing about it?
Swedish or Swiss? Make your mind up!
Fair play, I imagine the Swiss will be remaining neutral
you don't want to pick a fight with the Swiss navy - that's for sure
Apparently the Swiss Navy are a bit busy at the moment. They're doing a training exercise with the Royal Dutch Mountain Rescue Service.
We don’t have enough boats to even protect tankers in a relatively narrow strip of water.
The invading force was a dozen blokes in inflatables, and a helicopter. I'm not sure what a dreadnought would do against such a force.
I suppose it makes scrapping our last aircraft carrier years ago look a bit foolish, but everyone knew it was at the time.
With one exception
Why can't we just park a gunboat off Iran and shell the natives for a while? That ought to teach them a lesson.
Why can’t we just park a gunboat off Iran and shell the natives for a while? That ought to teach them a lesson.
We absolutely can do that.
Watch the West Wing, series 1, episode 3 for a dramatised representation of why we don't do that.
@sootyandjim, we still have MCMs in the Gulf but they're too slow to escort oil tankers let alone ride-off fast attack craft. The only thing that really deters them is a helo with a rack of Skuas.
I'm not sure what all the fuss is about, we're about to have BoJo in charge of all this - I'm sure he'll sort it all out with some skilful diplomatic manoeuvring...
Why can’t we just park a gunboat off Iran and shell the natives for a while?
Amateurish.
Flooding the whole region with cheap opium is the answer.
it’s still very much flippers in the ocean
Fixed badly. How the hell do you do strike through?
It would be brilliant if they’d hijacked Boaty McBoatface
“Why can’t we just park a gunboat off Iran and shell the natives for a while?“
We used to. I had an uncle in the RN in the late 40’s through to the mid 70’s who told me about the only time he was on a ship that fired a shot in anger.
Some tin-pot navy gunboat was lobbing bullets at the ship he was on so the captain ordered to open fire & a single shot blew the gunboat out of the water.
Happy days.
No surprises, this proxy war has been brewing in Yemen for years and now as well as the Yanks, we're kow-towing to the Saudis, along with the Americans for the price of their oil and foreign military sales. The RN is in no position to offer any global reach - original procurement of Type 45 destroyer was meant to be 12 boats, cut to 9 and then 6 delivered, but we're lucky if 2 are in a working condition. The same is going on for new frigates - to replace the current Type 23 which are well beyond their intended design life and are rusting to oblivion. Even if the RN had the boats, they haven't got the personnel to look after them - haemorrhaging personnel in the last few years. In the future we'll be lucky if we can muster a half-empty patrol boat.
Dovebiker, only a third of units are meant to be available at any one time. One deployed, one just returned and in re-fit and the other training up to deploy.
Don't worry Boris will sort it all out
Some tin-pot navy gunboat was lobbing bullets at the ship he was on so the captain ordered to open fire & a single shot blew the gunboat out of the water.
That sounds like it be the tale from an old sea dog
Friend of mine was serving on HMS Liverpool when it was "engaged" by Libyan land forces back in 2011 resulting in the RN using its main gun for the first time in ages.
His version of being "engaged" is very different from what the history books say - any excuse to pop off a few shells. Apparently the ship won that particular fight, bearing in mind that the other side's rounds were falling short by a few miles... ;o)
Gunz
Member
Dovebiker, only a third of units are meant to be available at any one time. One deployed, one just returned and in re-fit and the other training up to deploy.
Yup, but that in a nutshell is why 6 really expensive state of the art boats, isn't that useful. But that's the navy way, we need to have the shiniest and the best regardless of whether that's actually useful for the role.
(aside; every time a new round of commissioning comes up, it turns out that the government and MOD simultaneously believe 2 things- one, that our needs can't be met by any ships anyone else makes and two, that once we design this ship to do a job that's apparently so different from what every other navy wants, we'll still be able to sell it to other people with different needs)
(aside; every time a new round of commissioning comes up, it turns out that the government and MOD simultaneously believe 2 things- one, that our needs can’t be met by any ships anyone else makes and two, that once we design this ship to do a job that’s apparently so different from what every other navy wants, we’ll still be able to sell it to other people with different needs)
standard in the MOD. I remember using a load of kit with the SF boys years ago and it was lovely, it was effectively off the shelf kit, slightly modified (radios, anti-mine type things) and helmets and armour. In true MOD style, once it's been trialled and accepted, the MOD tell the manufacturer to change the entire spec and triple its cost and reduce it's functionality.
About the only time the MOD have ever been able to get good kit without all the bull, was around 2006/7 onwards when UOR (urgent operational requirements) were thrown around then all manner of kit crops up that actually worked (designed and built in a fraction of the normal procurement time) and didn't cost a fortune..