[Closed] iPhone5- Wtf. Not impressed

Residual value?! Its a phone not a buy to leg.

Yep, even my old iPhone 4 is still worth £110 trade-in.
Or probably slightly more on eBay.

@Graham - yes iOS6 gives the 4S the panoramic camera, I don't use Siri (although others have told me how good it is) so cannot comment on "improvements"

iOS6 doesn't give the 4 the panoramic camera

The new 5 is much lighter than the 4 and 4S - that together with 4G IMO means its worth having

All discussed / demoed over a curry tonight, 4 people 4, 2 * 4S and a 5 ( no one mentioned they wished they had an Android)

iOS6 doesn't give the 4 the panoramic camera

Yeah sadly I'd discovered that myself 👿

Not enough CPU power on the 4 to support it apparently.

Hummmph.

Luckily the Microsoft PhotoSynth app works fine on the 4 and does a cracking job of stitching together panoramics on-the-fly plus it can handle vertical and horizontal stitching at the same time so it can simulate wide-angle shots:
[img] [/img]

I'm quite tempted to move to a 4S just to get BlueTooth Smart support though.

Quick question I've always pondered. Why do people with Samsungs/Nokias or any other type of mobile always refer to them as phones but people with iPhones always call them iPhones? E.g. I've lost my phone/ I've lost my iPhone. Not having a go at anybody (I've just bought the new phone from Apple!) just always wondered the reason.

Can't say I do, unless it is relevant to the discussion in some way.

"I lost my iPhone" is an example where it is relevant as it means if you can use "Find My iPhone" to locate/lock/wipe it.

I hear most people who have one refer to it as an iPhone. It started bugging me when I'd hear BBC journalists referring to random things they had stored on there "iPhone" and wondered why they had to call it anything other than a phone (unless they're trying to show off!)

I hear most people who have one refer to it as an iPhone.

I don't. You must hang out with some funny types.

[url= http://m.techradar.com/reviews/phones/mobile-phones/samsung-galaxy-note-2-1093688/review ]Wow[/url]

Does the panoramic camera software work on the 4s?

My local shop is doing free 4s upgrades today....

Just upgraded from a 3GS to a 5. Why? Well, it hasn't actually cost me anything to upgrade - my monthly tariff has stayed the same and the resale value of my 3GS covered the price that I paid for the 5 (as my original 3gs is in good working order it will be reused not binned, so no additional waste).

Was it worth upgrading? On balance, yes. Much faster, excellent camera (which is important to me as it's the one I use most for taking photos as it's always with me), very light and easy to hold, feels robust, siri is excellent, slightly larger screen makes a noticable difference, and the option to use 4G in the future might be very useful and potentially free me from the cost of landline-based broadband wi-fi. Only con is the loss of google map's streetview which I used a lot.

In the end I treat it as a combined personal computer / mobile phone / camera - all in one, which I find easy to use and easy to carry around. It is not the answer to my every desire in life(!), but it does what a smartphone should do to a very high standard. Other alternatives are obviously available, so just choose the one that you prefer - it's no big deal 🙂

Wow

Samsung Note 2?

Nice spec but a mini-tablet size phone is waaay too big for my liking.

If I put that on my bars it would act like a spoiler! 😀

Does the panoramic camera software work on the 4s?

Yep, jambalaya said so about 3 posts before you 😀

I feel like wading into this thread now. 🙂
Especially as I've had an iP5 since launch... A couple of things:

Bemused by all the iphone hysteria. have you noticed how many there are for sale inthe classifieds section?

My old 4 would be one of those you're referring to. So now you know why it's there. At 2 years old I can get a good price for it too

Poorer plasticky build quality - a bit MEH tbh

What? Argue the toss over iOS and Android all you like, that's nothing more than personal preference, but plasticy? Err no. When I took mine out of the box the first thing I noticed was how nicely made it was. And bizzarely how light it was. That's just not true.

Quick question I've always pondered. Why do people with Samsungs/Nokias or any other type of mobile always refer to them as phones but people with iPhones always call them iPhones? E.g. I've lost my phone/ I've lost my iPhone. Not having a go at anybody (I've just bought the new phone from Apple!) just always wondered the reason.

I do this, but I have two phones, so I specify which phone I've lost, I've lost my iPhone/BlackBerry. I'd never say call me on my iPhone/BlackBerry, rather, I'd say call me on my own/work phone.

This is a bit like a 26er v 29er thread now ......each side just defending what their personal preference is ........when both do pretty much the same job ...... 😆

The Note2 suits me as my G4 ibooks died and Im neither a phone caller or computer user at home...more a nosey/grazer who texts.

What? Argue the toss over iOS and Android all you like, that's nothing more than personal preference, but plasticy? Err no. When I took mine out of the box the first thing I noticed was how nicely made it was. And bizzarely how light it was. That's just not true.

May I refer my learned friend to the comments regarding the dents. It isn't as well made and solid feeling as the 4 IMHO more thin and lightweight like an S3. Only time will tell if it's as durable. The 'steel' edge band and the glass back of the 4 make it feel like a more premium gadget - again IMHO of course.

The bottom line, is that it was always going to be a tough ask to match the wow and feature spec of the S3. They haven't done that and they've cheapened the feel of it, so it's a bit of a double fail.

Let's see what the 5S turns out like.

I hear most people who have one refer to it as an iPhone. It started bugging me when I'd hear BBC journalists referring to random things they had stored on there "iPhone" and wondered why they had to call it anything other than a phone (unless they're trying to show off!)

It's quite a long way from just being a phone though isn't it. It is basically a personal computer, so phone doesn't really describe it well. Calling it 'my smart phone' would be longer/even more stupid. If there was a word almost the same as phone that covered Samsung Galaxy etc then people would probably use it.

Hora. have you seen the Note in the flesh? I saw the original one (very similar form factor) and it really is a step up in size. I'd like it to be fine for phone use as I don't really want to have to buy a tablet but want a bigger screen than the SGS2.

[quote=grum ]
Calling it 'my smart phone' would be longer/even more stupid. If there was a word almost the same as phone that covered Samsung Galaxy etc then people would probably use it.
Smart Phone / iPhone. Same number of syllables. How is that longer or more stupid?

Smart Phone / iPhone. Same number of syllables. How is that longer or more stupid?

+i

Obviously "phone" is shorter than either and less stupid...

Smart Phone / iPhone. Same number of syllables. How is that longer or more stupid?

Dunno about you but I reckon iPhone is quicker to say than smart phone, certainly quicker to type. And smart phone sounds daft to me. Obviously because I'm one of the 'sheeple'.

I find it funny that people get upset over this - do you also get angry when people use the word 'tannoy' to mean a public address system? Or if they talk about using the hoover?

Obviously "phone" is shorter than either and less stupid...

As above though, they've evolved way beyond just being a phone. In fact the phone function is probably the part of mine I use the least, so just calling it a phone isn't a good fit.

Richpenny yes - the Gingerbread put me off as I will be on a new 2yr deal I wanted the fastest current tech possible if I was going to be stuck with it for two years. I discounted the Note from my search based on this. The Note2 addresses this perfectly 😀

If I take a phone on a ride with me its the B2700. I'd never take a valuable phone.

BTW, for the record I don't slag off people who love the Iphone. Its personal preference. If someone rams a particular product (any) down someones throat then (like anyone) I'd rebel/recoil.

On a night out? I'm passed going on a mega pub crawl, Visage night club and a punch up so I don't have to worry about having the phone on me down the local Ale pub.

Funny, when I've heard BBC types mention iPhones they call them 'my iPhone other smartphones are available' in one breath. Loads more syllables!

Dunno about you but I reckon iPhone is quicker to say than smart phone, certainly quicker to type.

And smart phone sounds daft to me. Obviously because I'm one of the 'sheeple'.
I find it funny that people get upset over this - do you also get angry when people use the word 'tannoy' to mean a public address system? Or if they talk about using the hoover?

>Obviously "phone" is shorter than either and less stupid...

As above though, they've evolved way beyond just being a phone. In fact the phone function is probably the part of mine I use the least, so just calling it a phone isn't a good fit.

26er vs 29er

These days it's more like a 25.99er vs 26.01er 😀

If I take a phone on a ride with me its the B2700. I'd never take a valuable phone.

Take my iPhone out every time as its the only smartphone I have and it has my Endomondo and various other useful apps on it.
£25 waterproof barmounted case - sorted. (Admittedly I'm not throwing myself off anything these days, but if I did I'd probably just stick the same case in my Camelbak.

As above though, they've evolved way beyond just being a phone. In fact the phone function is probably the part of mine I use the least, so just calling it a phone isn't a good fit.

The last thing I need is a phone I have to carry in a handbag because the bloody thing's the size of my head.

Heh. You have a handbag 😆

I disagree with the above poster stating the original iphone was utter rubbish. For me it started the revolution of smart phones. My biggest problem with iPhones is that they have stood still and not continued to push the boundaries. When the original iphone came out i had a sony k850 and I couldn't believe what the iphone could do.

I've had every single iphone since and sold my 4s around 5 months back and used an s2 for the past few months as a stop gap between 4s and 5 and honestly, it blew me away. Far better than the iphone in every way (apart from build quality), the amoled screen, correct aspect ratio 4.3" screen which is perfect, fast, thin, light.

I ordered 2 iphone 5's direct from apple, one for me and the other half. Both are being collected tomorrow as we've both found them to be a massive let down. Mine came with a mark on the bottom edge and apart from the panoramic mode on the camera, there was very little to like. Blacks were poor on the screen, new screen size made it feel thin, long and uncomfortable to hold and my biggest gripe is that the os has hardly changed in 5 years and feels dated and basic.

I use a mac and would never consider using a windows pc but I honestly cannot see myself owning another iphone unless they revamp the OS and sort out the screen size. A shame but I'm looking forward to seeing £1058 back in my bank account.

I had an N95 when the iPhone came out. It had quite a few more features afair and it was quite a bit cheaper than an iPhone. The camera was pretty good too, and I got 2-3 days from it. Still no idea why everyone slags it off as complete rubbish. Not pretty, not slick, but it worked for me and was very powerful.

Still no idea why everyone slags it off as complete rubbish.

I had the misfortune to have to put up with one of these for a year or so of a contract I couldn't get out of. It was, without doubt, the most rubbish phone I've ever owned. Yes, it had better tech than those I'd had before, but it was the one I hated using the most.

Still no idea why everyone slags it off as complete rubbish. Not pretty, not slick, but it worked for me and was very powerful.

I think the general populous are more swayed by pretty and slick to be honest.

Plus it helped that they could work the iPhone, whereas the N95, while excellent for the time, was very much a geek device: all function and no form.

The N95 was the Linux of the phone world - loads of potential, but the software and physical form were woeful.... as was this

[img] [/img]

"Tank, I need an exit"

Potential schmotential.

It was rubbish.

I missed the 95 but had the N70,73,75 and the E75.

They all got better as they went. The E75 was at the time everyone was parading round with iphones.

It was great - proper keyboard, gps integrated with flickr and did facebook via web well (for it's age) was really good until it left my bag half way down the glacier in Alp D'heuz one mega.

Went from there to a Desire.

well its made my work news letter...........

IPhone apps and maps
There has been a lot of criticism of the new maps app in the recent software update for iPhones and iPads. So I tested it on our Bloomsbury campus. There are some extraordinary results. The UCL Hospital has moved from the other side of Gower Street and now sits exactly on the site of my office. Its emergency ambulance entrance becomes a snack shop. The Bloomsbury Theatre moves across Gordon Street and takes up residence in the Bartlett Building, and the Grant Museum of Zoology crops up at the back of the Spearmint Rhino Gentlemen's Club in Tottenham Court Road, at almost exactly the spot where a vicious assault occurs in Ian McEwan's UCL novel, Saturday. In another somewhat surprising move, Imperial College is upgraded from South Kensington to the heart of our Economics building in Endsleigh Gardens. That is a better fate than faces King's College London and the LSE: they both disappear without trace.

Have you read Apple's "apology" letter to customers?

http://www.apple.com/letter-from-tim-cook-on-maps/

Basically: [i]"sorry it was rubbish, please use something else till we make it better"[/i] 😆

Gee thanks Tim.

What else is he meant to say then? Go on.....

What else is he meant to say then? Go on.....

Well, he could have said:

[i]"We'll be releasing an update shortly which allows customers to revert to Google Maps till we fix the issues"[/i]

or perhaps [i]"We've reduced all the alternative Map apps on the App Store to half price (or even free)"[/i],

or he could at least have given some good reasons [i]why[/i] it is so crap.

I've found the Apple Maps fine, the turn by turn nav is much better than google - I ran it in parallel with my Garmin last weekend and to be honest my traditional SatNav is now redundant for the UKI'll use the phone and only use the SatNav abroad (to save data roaming charges).

In terms of phone vs smart phone vs iPhone .. we have hoover, biro etc - many brand names are used instead of the generic term. The fact the word iPhone is being used IMO reflects it's dominance.

@winrya - I'm amazed you'd buy two phones, perhaps they make sense instead of getting them with a contract. I haven't paid for a phone in years

Yes, he could. But he didn't. Lets move on shall we?

or he could at least have given some good reasons why it is so crap.

It's not.

As I said on another thread, I used the new Apple maps to guide me round all week last week (About 700 miles) after my satnav went on the blink.

And, shock horror, it worked perfectly. In fact, if a hard reset hadn't started my Garmin back up like it did, I would have just carried on using it. It's at least as good as the Garmin, maps wise, and calculates routes and re-routes far faster.

But hey-ho. It's always the negative comments that people latch on to.

Have you used it?

In terms of phone vs smart phone vs iPhone .. we have hoover, biro etc - many brand names are used instead of the generic term.

I've never heard the term 'iPhone' used to describe a non-iPhone phone, ever. I don't think that's (yet) quite the same thing. I wonder idly if that's just a matter of time though; 'iPod' is starting to mean 'generic mp3 player'.

I wonder if it's actually a fragmentation thing. People will routinely refer to their iPhones and Blackberries by name, but the broad selection of brands and models means that Android / WinMo devices don't have the same zeitgeist penetration individually. There isn't a collective noun other than "Android Phone" which isn't particularly snappy. Which might be a bit of a marketing misstep by Google, thinking about it. "Droid"?

Yes, he could. But he didn't. Lets move on shall we?
or he could at least have given some good reasons why it is so crap.
It's not.

So, write to him and let him know he's wrong, in fact it's great.

As I said on another thread, I used the new Apple maps to guide me round all week last week (About 700 miles) after my satnav went on the blink.

And, shock horror, it worked perfectly. In fact, if a hard reset hadn't started my Garmin back up like it did, I would have just carried on using it. It's at least as good as the Garmin, maps wise, and calculates routes and re-routes far faster.

While it may function perfectly adequately as a postcode sat nav, most people are dismayed by it's other failings. POI, building locations and the visualisation of roads.
I'm sure it'll come together though, Google maps wasn't built in a day.

Have you used it?

Yes I have. On iPhone and iPad, though sadly not for turn-by-turn because for some reason best known to Apple they don't offer that on the iPhone 4 😐

It is [i]okayish[/i] round here. Usable, but not great.

Certainly doesn't have the detail of Google Maps, the local search is a bit rubbish, the aerial views are very mixed (some a cloudy blurry mess, others quite good). Directions seem okay provided you can find where you want it to go. I'm quite impressed with the 3D flyover thing, very nice when it works. This is me looking down the Tyne Valley to the sea from somewhere above my house:

[img] [/img]

But the 3D model does seem to go a bit mental when it reaches bridges or other "suspended" objects of which we have a few in Newcastle, presumably because of the way it tries to automatically work out the 3Dness from multiple photos.

But hey-ho. It's always the negative comments that people latch on to.

I agree and it is probably a good measure of how often Apple get it right that when they get it wrong everyone jumps on them for it because their expectations are so high.

BUT.. the Map simply isn't good enough. I look forward to it improving.
Meantime I'll carry on using third party satnav like Waze, NavFree and BikeHub - all of which can manage turn-by-turn directions on the iPhone 4.

Have you used it?

I have yes, and it was fine mostly...but it was mrs deadly holding it and giving me the instructions. One thing though, do the turn by turn instructions come up automatically, or do you have to manually scroll them across?

EDIT: forget that question, I have a 4 too and just saw Gee2DaEss's post. 🙁

EDIT Squared:

because their expectations are so high.

Because they can't resist a bit of schadenfreude more like it.

Because they can't resist a bit of schadenfreude more like it.

Yeah him too.

anyone else seen this..?

[url= http://www.dailytech.com/Foxconn+Installs+AntiSuicide+Nets+at+Its+Facilities/article18877.htm ]what do we make of it...?[/url]

[img] [/img]

What do you make of it?

I reckon the nets are to stop folk chucking out bags of parts/finished units, to accomplices below, to sell on any number of cheap Chinese tech ebay pages

They're on the dorm rooms, not the factory.

iOS10 Glitch

Yep.

It's very sad yunki, but it's hardly a iPhone or Apple issue.
Foxconn make a LOT of electronic devices for a LOT of manufacturers. Good to think about these things, but sitting at a PC and complaining about iPhones being made by Foxconn is missing the bigger picture.

but sitting at a PC and complaining about iPhones being made by Foxconn is missing the bigger picture.

is it Grahame..? Is that what it is..? Missing the bigger picture..?

or is it just not really giving a shit, just like everyone else.. 😀

Or perhaps we should burn all of our home technologies and simply sit at home shouting at our hands..?
Personally, and not for the first time, I'm staging a dirty protest in my own front room.. that'll teach 'em

Missing the bigger picture, and the Graham's point. Foxconn are massive, they make chips for just about everyone. It's not solely an Apple issue.

If you don't give a shit, why post it in the first place? Odd.

is it Grahame..? Is that what it is..?

Well you could call it "incredibly hypocritical" if you prefer. 😆

Point is, unless you happen to have manufactured your PC and all it's components yourself, using minerals that you have mined from your own land, then you have to face the fact that its construction involved shafting lots of people who are much poorer than you.

And that goes for pretty much everything in our cushy Western lives (TV, car, phone, PC, furniture, clothes, food).

Pointing at one particular thing and going [i]"Oh isn't it awful"[/i] is just a little bit silly.

It's not that I don't give a shit, it's just that I can't really do very much about it.

yada yada yada.. condescending nonsense.. bit silly

😆

how not to open the box with your new iPhone 5 in it;

[img] [/img]

The foxconn suicide stuff is a good example of stats gone wrong.

There have indeed been a number of workers there kill them selves. Each individually very sad.

But foxconn employ 100s of 1000s of people.

So at a population level their suicide rate is lower than average. A foxconn worker is less likely to kill themselves than an average chineese person.

So it's just a good headline to bash Apple but not actually a real issue.

So with that nonscense banished we can go back to complaining about the new iPhone itself!

It's not that I don't give a shit, it's just that I can't really do very much about it.

To stop it, [i]Stop buying crap you don't need.[/i]

yada yada yada.. condescending nonsense.. bit silly

🙄 okay what do you suggest yunki?

Would the lives of those Foxconn workers be enhanced if we all stopped buying gadgets and put them all out of a job?

To stop it, Stop buying crap you don't need.

Same point to you then scuzz. How will reducing demand and putting them out of work improve their lives?

how not to open the box with your new iPhone 5 in it;

Whoaa, is that real? 🙁

...well hellloooo doggy-heaven

interesting camera glitch yesterday...

[url= http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8034/8046858653_452bef10db.jp g" target="_blank">http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8034/8046858653_452bef10db.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/jambo_uk/8046858653/ ]Untitled[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/jambo_uk/ ]jambo-uk[/url], on Flickr

I don't know the socioeconomic situation in China well enough to comment with any authority, but my argument is based around 'stop giving China money and their government will stop stealing the workers' farmland, their worker's sons won't move to the cities looking for work, their worker's sons won't see a job at Foxconn as the best alternative in a bad situation'.
Who knows what the Chinese know? I sure don't. I just know that the systematic exploitation of cheap labour is wrong, and I don't want to say anything today that may perpetuate it.

okay what do you suggest yunki?

Would the lives of those Foxconn workers be enhanced if we all stopped buying gadgets and put them all out of a job?

I only asked what folk thought about the article ya daft wee hiccup.. 🙄
you and scuzz are the only fellas suggesting a boycott..

If pushed for a solution, I would suggest that folk get in a mood about it if it suits them, and see where it takes them..

...well hellloooo doggy-heaven

Yes. It's just [i]great[/i] that someone's hard earned cash is up the spout isn't it? Get real.

their worker's sons won't see a job at Foxconn as the best alternative in a bad situation

From [url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19699156 ]a BBC Article about Foxconn[/url]:

Foxconn is famous for his industrial revolution approach to manufacturing; the workers eat, sleep and live in huge dormitories adjacent to the factories where they work round-the-clock shifts. The company even provides doctors.

The plant in Shenzhen, which includes bakeries, banks and acupuncture clinics, for example, [b]employs over 400,000 people[/b].
..
[Foxconn] responded to the worldwide media attention by raising wages, shortened working hours and installed counsellors on site. It also installed suicide nets to factory living-quarters at its Shenzhen factory.

And Apple sent independent inspectors from the US Fair Labor Association to audit their facilities, who found "significant issues" among working practices there.

Apple said it "fully accepted" the report's conclusions.

Despite being a lightning rod for criticism, [b]Foxconn is regarded as one of China's better employers by many Chinese labour rights groups[/b], paying workers on time and for all the overtime.

So... we should shut them down? Putting 400,000 people out of work (at just one plant!), and forcing them to seek employment at less reputable factories which haven't had the benefit of worldwide scrutiny.

Let me be clear: I don't approve of "the systematic exploitation of cheap labour" either, but people in developing economies do need jobs.

I think raising worldwide public awareness of conditions and putting pressure on companies we buy from to ensure their suppliers treat workers well and pay them properly is a much better way forward than just boycotting everything made in China or any other developing nation.

i think re the foxxconn stuff the relentless pursuit of the newest gizmo is the problem, when theres nothing wrong with your previous phone/pc/tablet etc

Let me be clear: I don't approve of "the systematic exploitation of cheap labour" either, but people in developing economies do need jobs.

[b]I think raising worldwide public awareness of conditions and putting pressure on companies we buy from to ensure their suppliers treat workers well and pay them properly[/b] is a much better way forward than just boycotting everything made in China or any other developing nation.

This is exactly what I'm trying to achieve with my posts, as well as my avoidance of products that produce [i]massive[/i] margins which do not trickle down to the workers. I've had to draw a line somewhere. I'm not advocating boycotting everything made in China, I'm suggesting that the way things are are not the only way they can be, and ultimately we are all responsible for this consumerist cluster-love-in. This was mainly in response to your comments along the lines of 'lots of other companies do it' and 'there isn't much I can do about it', as well as the general apathy you displayed.

my avoidance of products that produce massive margins which do not trickle down to the workers

But as that article states, it is one of the better employers and wages have been increased, so arguably it is the very kind you should be supporting as it IS trickling down some of those margins.

his was mainly in response to your comments along the lines of 'lots of other companies do it'

Fair enough, maybe I should have worded that better.

It just seems a bit odd that people post images like that deriding Apple (who actually responded to pressure by instigating the FLA independent inspection and trying to improve conditions) but make no mention of Acer, Amazon, Cisco, Dell, HP, Intel, Microsoft, Motorola, Nintendo, Nokia, Sony, Toshiba or Vizio [url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foxconn#Major_customers ]who also use Foxconn[/url] and don't appear to have done anything.

as well as the general apathy you displayed.

There's a subtle difference between apathy and resignation.

i think re the foxxconn stuff the relentless pursuit of the newest gizmo is the problem, when theres nothing wrong with your previous phone/pc/tablet etc

Isn't this what drives employment?

It just seems a bit odd that people post images like that deriding Apple...

but make no mention of Acer, Amazon, Cisco, Dell, HP, Intel, Microsoft, Motorola, Nintendo, Nokia, Sony, Toshiba or Vizio

I was just raising awareness.. where better to enquire about the issue in the image than a thread full of gadget obsessed fanbois..? as you said, by far and away the best policy..
thankfully you've filled the gaps very concisely Graham, and for that you deserve a big fat kiss..

(please make an effort to remember not to shoot the messenger in your frantic scramble for the moral high ground in future though.. hey kiddo..? 😉 )

But as that article states, it is one of the better employers and wages have been increased, so arguably it is the very kind you should be supporting as it IS trickling down some of those margins.

It just seems a bit odd that people post images like that deriding Apple

There's a subtle difference between apathy and resignation.

i think re the foxxconn stuff the relentless pursuit of the newest gizmo is the problem, when theres nothing wrong with your previous phone/pc/tablet etc

Isn't this what drives employment?

Maybe, but it also drives pollution and the consumption of resources.

Foxconn's suicide rate is estimated to be 4.7 per 100,000 per year

That is lower than all 50 US states, significnatly lower than China as a whole and the UK.

It is less than half that of working in the NHS.

So if you don't want to feel guilty for buying an iPhone (or any of the other tech they make) you don't have to. But if you visit the doctors your really should go with a guilty concience.

@scuzz - it's economically beneficial for a Chinese person to work in a factory than it is for them to be a subsistence farmer. It's just the same revolution every developed country has been through. Did you see the program on the BBC last night about Marxism ? They pointed out that the Victorian mining employers who paid their workers more invariably went out of businesses vs their competiton. That doesn't really help the worker does it ? If the Chinese government doesn't chose to set national standards for pay and employee welfare a foreign company cannot do it alone.

it's economically beneficial for a Chinese person to work in a factory than it is for them to be a subsistence farmer.

Apple have consistently shown that they can sell their product at a premium price compared to the competition; they have far more to offer a consumer than mining companies ever did, where I would imagine price pays far more of a factor - No one ever considered the mine from which the coal in their pocket originated as a lifestyle choice.

they have far more to offer a consumer than mining companies ever did

Eh?

One is a luxury item, one is a necessity. Not sure how you can compare?

i think re the foxxconn stuff the relentless pursuit of the newest gizmo is the problem, when theres nothing wrong with your previous phone/pc/tablet etc

Ive just had a play on the Note II. Jesus the video definition is 😮

Zoom in to a playing vid and its ultra-sharp. Cant be good for battery life but boy for once I will pay money upfront for a phone (£69) and wait until the 17th. **** it feels quality as well.

A sort of Samsung S3 Turbo.