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@jamie - I'm glad I do something of note, even if it's just a temporary small pond fanboi honour !
But wouldn't it be great if phone OS retailers were forced to offer us the option to set our default maps app
Agreed, but what I'd really prefer is to flip between multiple different maps of the same place, depending on my needs (i.e. OS view if I'm planning a hike, OpenCycleMap/Sustrans if I'm "leisure riding", TeleAtlas/TomTom if I'm driving, Satellite/Aerial if I'm browsing etc)*
So I guess what I'd prefer is that phone OS retailers were forced to allow multiple different map tile providers for their map app.
.
*(obviously some map apps do let you do this already, but they can't be set as OS default, which is what you are getting at)
quick straw pole in the office (with a demographic that will be heavily skewed towards Apple ownership) shows 6 iPhones, 1 Android phone, and 8 people who just have a phone.go on the train or a public place and look at the number of users of the different devices.
Closer inspection shows everyone of those 8 phones is running on Android but the users were unaware of this. This is why Android leads in market share, not because it is a better OS (although it might be, it's personal preference).
But Apple's market share of the type of people who sit on their phones constantly in stations will be enormous as they lead the way in high end smartphones and heavy users tend to buy more expensive phones.
This is why Android leads in market share, not because it is a better OS (although it might be, it's personal preference).
Agreed. All the fanboi/fandroid ramblings about which is the better OS rather misses the point that 90% of users don't know what an OS is.
(and don't live with their mums either)
@Drac - one of Apple's strengths is the free OS updates providing increased functionality and pro-longing the life of the device
Your right but even they stop in the end, it's now the turn of the original iPad to retire to the draw of power adapters from lost devices, spare Scart leads and forgot remotes.
The real sad thing about iOS maps, is that people are moaning about how much worse it is than the old iOS maps, which in itself had missed about 2 years worth of the latest mobile Google Maps features and was pretty poor.
Things like very high quality vector mapping (it is rendered as nicely as google maps tiles, but is vector based, so downloads really quick and can be rotated), 3d buildings, decent road and pedestrian navigation with turn by turn and live traffic information, download of map areas for offline use. All missing.
So you can see why Apple needed to do something about maps - it was glaringly bad in comparison with the full mobile Google maps. It is just sad that they appear to have done such a piecemeal job.
In fact looking at that list of new features that have come out in Google Maps vs. the new but poorly implemented features in Apple maps, it seems like they had exactly the same checklist of missing features that they needed, they just haven't had the development capability to pull it off yet.
I suspect that for iOS Google maps they'd paid Google to develop specific features (like image tile based maps, and static directions), and Apple just weren't willing to pay for Google to develop the newer features and thought they'd have a try at doing it themselves - doubt that it would be Google refusing them the chance to get those features, as given Google's monopoly on high quality online mapping, it'd be just begging for some kind of competition law complaint.
Your right be even they stop in the end...
Say what now?
Did you read the Grammer thread yesterday Jamie, that's an example there of my dyslexia coming through. 😀
Eh? Where? Not noticed this at all? Example?
Open a new tab on the ipad; keyboard appears (no space bar) and start typing, it goes straight into the address bar which then searches on virgin (or whatever). Used to open and type automatically into the search bar (google).
So I guess what I'd prefer is that phone OS retailers were forced to allow multiple different map tile providers for their map app.
Problem is that map providers are moving towards exposing the vector basis of their mapping rather than providing tiles (google has already on mobile, and is moving towards it on desktop, Apple is, I bet Bing, Yahoo etc. are considering it). Which means that a map layer is now a combination of a load of vector data, plus rendering software. Which is more complicated to switch about than just a load of pictures.
Open a new tab on the ipad; keyboard appears (no space bar) and start typing, it goes straight into the address bar
Hmm.. doesn't do that on the phone. New tab appears without the keyboard and you select address box or search box to start typing. I'll have a play on the pad tonight.
Which is more complicated to switch about than just a load of pictures.
Agreed - though still doable. Providers could provide their own rendering plug-in or a standard vector rendering format could be agreed.
Has anyone mentioned that the Garmin app has street view? Might be worth a look if you really need it.
I'm sticking with iOS5 for now.
Kelvin, which Garmin app, there are loads!
The eyebleedingly expensive ones.
The real sad thing about iOS maps, is that people are moaning about how much worse it is than the old iOS maps, which in itself had missed about 2 years worth of the latest mobile Google Maps features and was pretty poor....
I suspect that for iOS Google maps they'd paid Google to develop specific features (like image tile based maps, and static directions), and Apple just weren't willing to pay for Google to develop the newer features and thought they'd have a try at doing it themselves - doubt that it would be Google refusing them the chance to get those features, as given Google's monopoly on high quality online mapping, it'd be just begging for some kind of competition law complaint
We may never know if this is true but while it seems unlikely that Google wouldn't have wanted to sell Apple some decent mapping features, it also seems unlikley that Apple would hamper its phone sales in the short term for the sake of giving some cash to Google, even if it was developing its own solution in the long term. It is also pluasable that Google would withhold a decent maps implimentation from Apple to give Android a competive advantage, safe in the knowledge that Apple didn't have any option but to continue with the old crappy app and they wouldn't lose any seach traffic. The is supported by the fact that google aren't developing a standalone maps app for iOS.
Money talks afterall, hence why Apple still let Google pay handsomely to be the defualt serch provider for iOS safari. It is also unlikely that Google were paying Apple to be the defualt maps app and for You Tube to be iOS native, more likely the other way round.
The frustraiting thing for users is that in part this limiting of choice seems to be down to people's egos.
Did you read the Grammer thread yesterday Jamie, that's an example there of my dyslexia coming through
A grammar thread on STW? Of course I didn't read it.
Fair point.
My guess is that Apple wants to drive users to it's map service as the market for "recommendations" ie paid locations by restaurants etc is going to be very big business
The real sad thing about iOS maps, is that people are moaning about how much worse it is than the old iOS maps
I'm not. I think it's better
UPDATE
I'm in the middle of a journey from Teesport to Farnborough (about 280 miles) guided solely by iOS 6 maps. So far it's not put a pixel out of place. Can't fault it.
But yeah. I'm probbly some deranged fanboi. 🙄
I used apple maps to guide me home tonight too, you're not alone PP!
Worked perfectly fine, it rerouted quickly when I deviated from the planned route, and eta was accurate. Voice seems to be the "Daniel" one from tomtom.
For a free sat nav it is very good. Not better than the tomtom app but that costs £40+
How much data does it use though, downloading maps on the fly ?
Will this rift between apple and google mean that the one app I really want (google sketch up) will never happen? I would love to get this on the pad.....it will actually be useful and not just used to surf then.
On another note anyone know a good replacement YouTube app as the littleun is struggling to use the net to watch clips as the old built in app had a neat history function where he could easily get his favourite clips.
For a free sat nav it is very good. Not better than the tomtom app but that costs £40+
How does it compare to Waze or NavFree though, which are both free and work on pre-4S iPhones?
On another note anyone know a good replacement YouTube app
Have you tried the new YouTube app? History seems to work okay in that.
How much data does it use though, downloading maps on the fly ?
Probably not that much as the maps are vector based, not images. Seems to cache a fairly large area at a time ad far as I can tell (try switching on Airplane Mode then browsing the map).
peterpoddy, you are obviously easily satisfied - [url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-19760978 ]Even Apple reckon it's pants[/url]
Oddly most of the criticism seems to be aimed at the 3D bit - which is hardly essential.
The example the Beeb give is laughable:
[img] 
[/img]
[i]"One 3D-rendered image appears to show cars melted into the road's tarmac"[/i]
Are they really saying that not having an accurate 3D model of each car is a major flaw?? 😯
Does Google Maps have accurate 3D models of cars?
The issues with places being spelt incorrectly, roads missing and crap satellite views are far bigger issues IMHO.
Previously fanbois banged on about how stuff just worked, now they bang on about how you can just download an app to fix whatever has been been "forgotten".
(edited to add - posted from my iPad3)
WAHEY! Street View now available on maps.google.com on iOS
How does it compare to Waze or NavFree though, which are both free and work on pre-4S iPhones?
I dunno if its just my phone, but Navfree is awful. Really glitchy and just totally spazzes out half the time.
Same here for NavFree - tried it for a while and just thought it was shite.
Edit to above post
Still not a patch on the original Google maps app though. Closing Street View takes you back to a map of your current location, not a map of what you're 'Street viewing'
Always got on fine with Nav free
The issues with places being spelt incorrectly, roads missing and crap satellite views are far bigger issues IMHO.
This.
If it doesn't have the correct names, in the correct places then it isn't technically a [b]*map*[/b]. It is a kid's drawing. And is therefore useless.
I like Apple stuff, I have lots of Apple stuff. But this isn't a map, and they have completely screwed up.
Excellent summary Helios
Have to say I used the inbuilt maps/navigation the other day and didn't have any issues.
[quote=grum ]Have to say I used the inbuilt maps/navigation the other day and didn't have any issues.
The navigation seems to be fine for getting you where you need to be but the maps itself is pretty terrible
I'm sure/hopeful that some of the new Maps does work OK for some functions in some areas, but "some" is a backward step compared to "most" or indeed "all" which is what I had before. Adding turn by turn navigation - only available in iPhone 4S upwards - does not make up for the poor quality mapping data and removed functionality. I'm big and brave though, so will cope with my disappointment 😆
jfletch - Member
It is also pluasable that Google would withhold a decent maps implimentation from Apple to give Android a competive advantage, safe in the knowledge that Apple didn't have any option but to continue with the old crappy app and they wouldn't lose any seach traffic.
Apple wrote the previous Maps app, it just uses Googles map data.
it just uses Googles map data
...and therein lies the rub. A map is only as good as the data on which it is built and Apple have moved to their own - worse - data.
I dunno if its just my phone, but Navfree is awful. Really glitchy and just totally spazzes out half the time.
Odd. Seems okay on mine too. I use it fairly regularly.
What happens when it "spazzes"? Do you mean just bad map/routes or the actual app going wonky?
If it doesn't have the correct names, in the correct places then it isn't technically a *map*. It is a kid's drawing. And is therefore useless.
To be fair, Google Maps isn't 100% correct either (I doubt any map is). According to Google I have a forest near me called "hhh" and Exhibition park is in South Shields, rather than the middle of Newcastle.
But yeah.. the Apple Map does seem to have far more major mistakes!
What I don't understand is they had some excellent sources to work from: TomTom maps and OpenStreetMap for example, so how did they screw it up?
Re: StreetView: try the Live Street View app (free version) it goes from Apple Map to full screen Google Street View.
...and therein lies the rub. A map is only as good as the data on which it is built and Apple have moved to their own - worse - data.
No Apple use Tom Tom data which has never let me down, Tom Tom were keen to point out that everyone else managed to use it right and had no idea how apple had F****** it up.
Now where did I leave Stratford hospital or best of all the Apple shop in Sydney
try the Live Street View app
got that. Not quite as slick as the old Google app, but has a fair stab at it and is tHe reason i relented and upgraded to iOS 6.
Apple use Tom Tom data which has never let me down
It would let you down if you expected Street View data.
As i said pages back, it's clear we all use "maps" for different purposes and some aspects of the new Maps are (much) worse than others.
Apple seem to have used map data not just from TomTom but from [url= http://gspsa21.ls.apple.com/html/attribution.html ]a ton of different sources[/url]. They credit Ordnance Survey, OpenStreetMap, Waze, DigitalGlobe, InterMap and Royal Mail among many others.
Seems like they secured some really good sources and then arsed up the mashing them together bit.
Very odd.
stilltortoise - Member...and therein lies the rub. A map is only as good as the data on which it is built and Apple have moved to their own - worse - data.
Yes I agree but that's not the point I was making, I was just saying that Google didn't purposely make a limited iOS app in comparison to the Android one, it was Apple.
It looks to me like they also bought some really old data from the ordinance survery.
Apple have a post office shown just round the corner from me. And there was a post office there... 15 years ago. It was shown on the OS printed maps up until the latest revision.
Yes I agree but that's not the point I was making, I was just saying that Google didn't purposely make a limited iOS app in comparison to the Android one, it was Apple.
That's not true. Apple need two key pieces of data that they didn't have for the two key features it needed to compete. Vector based mapping and turn by turn directions. We will never know why Apple didn't have that data available from Google but it was probably a combination of
1. Google wanted to keep it to themselves to give Android a competitive advantage
2. Apple weren't willing to pay Google's asking price
3. Apple didn't want to surrender all of the very valuable user data generated from maps to Google for what they were willing to pay for it
It certainly wasn't Google or Apple's inability to code a decent app.
Of course google has had a lot of it's map day polished and optimised by savvy small businesses, web masters and users. It looks like checking and updating OSM is yet another task we'll be burdened with...
It looks to me like they also bought some really old data from the ordinance survery.Apple have a post office shown just round the corner from me. And there was a post office there... 15 years ago. It was shown on the OS printed maps up until the latest revision.
their satellite images are very new (locally to me anyway) compared to google maps. The google ones for here are at least 10 to 15 years old where as on the iOS maps one I can see something I was building in my yard this time last year.
Is there a way of browsing the iOS maps on a desktop? I use google satellite images for scouting out routes as there are a lot of older trails that have ceased to feature on the OS maps and new path networks that are too new for the OS too. But with there being a lot of open cast around here whole swathes of landscape have disappeared since the google images were taken, in fact theres a lot that has been mined and then reinstated again since the google images were taken
The combination of Live Street View (69p - bargain! Slightly better than the free version, which is good) and the ability to use maps.google.com and still have StreetView sorted it for us and we upgraded to iOS 6 - no regrets.
I was also amazed to find that where the PegMan appears on maps embedded in a web page he can still be dragged onto the map to show StreetView.
It looks like checking and updating OSM is yet another task we'll be burdened with...
Only if you want to. Personally I've added tons of local businesses to OSM over the years without any prompting from them or their webmasters.
(Not sure that is relevant to Apple btw. They use Yelp which savvy businesses should already be in).
their satellite images are very new (locally to me anyway) compared to google maps.
Have you compared to Bing Maps - they are usually quite good too. Especially at close zooms.