Investment question

Err yes. I had a few funds within my Stocks and Shares ISA with Vanguard. I say "did"  because they are introducing monthly fees in February on top of the ETF fee making it rather expensive for people with smaller amounts invested. I've literally just closed it down and moved it all elsewhere. So have a look into it that. There are websites that show annual fee comparisons based on what you're investing to give you an idea on who's competitive.

Yes - look for a self-trade account service like ii.co.uk, set up the S+S ISA with them and buy the ETFs you're after to go in there. Small monthly fee and generally no percentages to pay afaik.

Ok thanks... Yes I think what I want to do is use T212 or maybe invest engine for an s&s ISA, and buy into several ETFs within that..

... So I could invest 50% in a Vanguard s&p500 ETF and 50% into an 'ishares emerging market' ETF etc?

The T212 app is terrible so I might have a look at InvestEngine...

Question for the OP - why those % splits specifically and why do you think they would do better than a generic global tracker?

The generic advice seems to be go for a vanilla global tracker so that’s what I did fwiw.

 So I could invest 50% in a Vanguard s&p500 ETF and 50% into an ‘ishares emerging market’ ETF etc?

Yes no problems. Why you would split that way is another question.

I've just opened an Invest Engine ISA. No complaints so far.

I use moneybox for my Stocks & Shares account, albeit there's not thousands and thousands of pounds in there, it is still protected by the relevant authorities. With this, if you're not entirely sure where you want your allocations to go, you can choose high, moderate or low risk and it'll choose your investment allocations for you, alternatively you can choose your own funds, percentages and allocations yourself. Essentially, it's a very good app that gives you as much control as you want and would recommend it.

I guess I want more granular control but without having to micro manage buying and selling.

A lot of global ETF are still heavily weighted to USA & USA tech.

So if I put 25% of my investment into s&p500 for example, that's pure USA stock and heavily weighted to the tech sector. So that's enough exposure for me..

I might want to split the other 75% between emerging markets, Asia and Europe for example.

For example I'd like a bit more weight in companies like Samsung and Toyota etc in Asia.

Same for European companies.

To be brutally honest, if you don’t know enough to know about how to use the various platforms and tax-wrappers, you definitely don’t know enough to be tilting away from a world index tracker.

That's why I'm asking? Lol

I could put the lot into an S&P500 ETF as it's doing realy well.

I could put the lot into some sort of global ETF but that's more slow and steady and most that I've seen are still heavily weighted towards USA, and USA tech in particular.

So I'd like to speculate a bit more widely without going to the extent of manually buying and selling shares.

For example I'd quite to put a bit into Asian and European ETFs. Maybe a bit of emerging markets for a laugh, maybe an ethical/sustainable ETF that only has 'responsible' companies.

I don't think for a second my finger is on the pulse enough to time the markets, but I do want to diversify as an experiment and spread my bets.

Most off the shelf ETFs are heavily weighted to USA Tech... So you may aswell just invest in s&p500 if that's the case.. And whilst the returns are historically good.. I'd rather shy away from the likes of tesla, Meta, Amazon, etc.  Gaining too much weight in my overall portfolio.

Just my current thoughts. But as I said... I'm kinda new to this whole investment lark.

I have a stocks and shares ISA with 212 (self invested)

I have my ISA with Vanguard, which is made up of 7 different funds (Including S&P 500). I diversified away from USA bias to spread the risk.

Vanguard and VHVG or VWRP ETF and it saves pissing about with a number of holdings.

With the ongoing wars you will get good returns with the American companies eg Ratheon shares rather than worrying about Amazon Tesla etc

No offence, and I might be mistaken, but shares in rathion is just USA millitary?

That's not what I want, really, I want to diversify, and not invest in war machines where possible.

I appreciate that there's probaby no such thing as an 'ethical' investment, but ****ing hell lol!

https://uk.investing.com/equities/raytheon-co

I’m in the global tracker camp, respectfully, it doesn’t sound like you know enough to justify moving away from a global tracker. Smarter investment brains than I will advocate it for 95% of all investors.

it’s also worth pointing out what any allocation away from a global tracker (I.e the market) is: a belief that your money is smarter than the $trillions of dollars in equity markets: what’s your edge?

America makes up ~63% of a global tracker inc emerging markets, or 70% of developed markets.

by only allocating 25% to the US that’s a pretty big bet against America, sure it’s expensive by historical standards, but an allocation of 25% is quite a statement, especially when a lot of the best companies in the worlds are listed in the US.

why not a global tracker with smaller tilts (5% or so) to other markets, if you feel like “diversifying”

(a global tracker is plenty diversified)

just my £0.02

Thanks.. I appreciate the thoughts and useful insight.

I've not changed my mind though..

I've got 20k allowance next year... I've already got 40k in a cash ISA so I'm thinking of using next year's allowance with new money to diversify a bit.

So I was thinking 5k in the s&p500, 5k in some form of global ETF fund.. Even though that will still be heavily weighted to USA tech, and then the remaining 10k split between more actually global investments.

Like, I'd want some shares in companies like Samsung, Toyota, Mitsubishi, etc.. and maybe some in EU companies, even some shares in an 'ethical ' fund as I think that's quite important.

I use InvestEngine for my ISA, loads of choice of ETFs there although I’d think you can to the same with T212?
II also good but with a flat monthly account fee you need a fair bit in there before it becomes cost-effective compared to other options.

I'd agree that it is best just stuck in a global tracker and let it run but there is one advantage to your strategy. That is that you will take an interest in it. It's very easy to find the whole thing boring and it's get forgotten. It's good to know your numbers and not end up too committed to one thing. I must admit I'm a bit guilty of that sometimes.

I put a good deal in global trackers then spread across S&P Nasdaq, Physical gold, bit of Islamic Equities to try and get a bit of diversity - inevitably still end up 75% + in US shares.
Can’t help being nervous about a future readjustment but then with 50% growth in 2 years likely would still end up better than if I’d steered clear of the US.

Emerging market investment is on a par with a trip to Vegas. You could win big , but you could also catch a cold.
SandP has been on a bull run for years , and as you correctly stated alot of trackers are weighted towards this.
You need a cash lump for rainy day money and a nicely diversified portfolio with low cost. Vanguard used to be one of the best but now there are better options available

Emerging market investment is on a par with a trip to Vegas. You could win big , but you could also catch a cold.

or just have a persistent dribbling nose as seems to be the general effect.

Appreciating the OPs aversion to US tech. Not sure when it will fall out of favor, but it looks a bit sclerotic in what it is doing. Still, being mostly tracker-based I suppose I should not want any big shifts there.

edit. Agree on the general investment strategy ideas being promoted. But if the OP wants to do what they say how can they best achieve that?

I started many moons back thinking I could pick out some good shares.

Present day me leaves the lot in a bunch of trackers, global, gold, s+p, FTSE, etc.

Present day me has done a lot better from doing less.

That's my 2p. Investing is a bit like poker. If you can't spot the sucker, it's you.

There is a potential downside to some managed funds in that their fees can cut significantly into the return.

As well as the inescapable fact that they are all playing a negative-sum game by design so most of the managers are worse than useless.

trackers should basically solve this problem but they still have their own costs.

hopefully OP's question has been resolved so can i just piggy-back onto this thread rather than start another investment thread please?

was given a few shares tips via an 84yr old who worked at rothschilds and keeps his hand in, regularly still topping up his considerable wealth by still trading.

i have a S&S SIPP with interactive investor which i top up with £100 p/m, and a small S&S ISA with fidelity which is never added to.

i still have a few grand left over from matched betting, some put to one side for a car, the rest i dont mind gambling on these shares.  so.....if i were to say gamble a grand say on these 4 companies (£250 each), whats my best way of doing it?  adding them to either a SIPP or ISA?  or just buying shares separately?  id be just leaving them for a few years and not wanting to consider withdrawing until part of any retirement plans in 5 years time.

any platform better than the others for such a relatively low amount?

thanks

With those amounts you have to look at the buying and selling fees. We use first direct and hargreaves landowne which are both quite cheap IIRC but even 10 quid puts a dent in 250!

Historically I'd usually have said ISA isn't important for such small figures though I suppose you could argue that with the CGT threshold dropping like a stone, that may change. ISA wrapper is often free anyway, no real harm in using it.

@sadexpunk:

• That's not investing, it's gambling.
• If you are happy to do that, I'd do it through a Trading212 ISA which is set up more for gambling than for investing, but has no buying and selling fees.

@nickjb

It’s very easy to find the whole thing boring and it’s get forgotten.

That's a feature, not a bug. Investment should be boring. If it's exciting then it's gambling.

Trouble is you need to engage with it at least a little bit, not much, but some.  You can't totally forget about it.

You can if you're putting it in a Target Date Retirement Fund or an automatically rebalancing "lifestyle" type fund.

That’s not investing, it’s gambling.

well yes i spose so, but then all S&S investments are gambles really arent they.  they all come with the disclaimer that your investment may go down as well as up.

If you are happy to do that, I’d do it through a Trading212 ISA which is set up more for gambling than for investing, but has no buying and selling fees.

ok thanks, ill look into that.

 ISA wrapper is often free anyway, no real harm in using it.

so itd be free to buy/sell those shares within my fidelity ISA?

the cheaper i can buy/sell for the better with those lower amounts.

thanks

MattyFez,

You can do exactly what you suggest with either of the two brokers below.

interactive investor - the UK’s number one flat-fee investment platform - ii

IWeb Share Dealing | Buy and sell shares online

IWeb would be a fair bit cheaper as there is no monthly fee.  Their website is a lot more basic than II but for your use-case it will be fine.  They are owned by Lloyds.

Personally I'd go more towards S+P 500 and World Tracker though I appreciate there's a big overlap there.

Bernstein's 'The Intelligent Asset Allocator' is worth a read if you're looking to build your own portfolio.

It talks about things like recency bias, rebalancing strategies, the use of uncorrelated assets (bonds, metals), the importance of sticking with whatever allocation you choose rather than following fashions and so on.

Ultimately it influenced me to go with a ready made 'buy and forget' style fund but from what I remember (having read it about 15yrs ago), it doesn't necessarily push the reader in any one direction, but rather aims to allow you to make an informed decision.

Live in Europe, invest in the US. Get the best of both worlds. 50% S&P500, 25% World, 25% FTSE100. Save regularly and forget about it. That’s been my pension allocation. I’ve saved pension over ISA for the tax benefits, but the same principles apply. I have. A nutmeg SS ISA I save a little into monthly.

You won’t beat the law of large numbers and central tendency. So why try?

Moneybox mentioned above. I’m a big fan. The app makes it very easy to invest in ETFs and move stuff around.

Maybe something like this.. says it's 'ISA ready', has a 0.22% fee, but I think I can replicate something very close to that in T212, it's just not clear if on T212 is within an ISA or not.

Moneybox mentioned above. I’m a big fan. The app makes it very easy to invest in ETFs and move stuff around.

Thanks, I might have a look at moneybox and some otheres, the T212 app is a little unclear and clunky!

One other quiestion..in the vanguard funds above, they are all in GBP, but the S&P500 is in USD - I'm not entirely sure what impact that has - does it basically just mean when I come to liquidate it, It'l be paid in USD so I'd need to consider the exchange rate of USD to GBP?

There are ETFs for S&P 500 that trade in European markets. Some funds companies have options on each major stock exchange. Might find there is a UK option for the same fund?

@mattyfez if you’re diversified as just about everyone sensible on here is telling you to be, then the currency of your stocks holdings doesn’t matter as currency risk balances itself out.

if you’re not diversified then there is uncompensated currency risk on top of the risk of your holdings. If the S&P500 tanks then it’s likely that the dollar will be hit too. Conversely the reverse is likely to be true too.

I want to be diverse, but using the above Vangurd (VGL100A) as an example, I might want to put a couple less percentage points In UK and USA, and maybe a little bit more in things like Europe, Japan, and Pacific (ex-Japan), etc...

In my mind, having such a big bias toward USA, and USA tech in particular, is the very opposite of diverse.

You’re actually talking about being concentrated in those markets rather than being diversified.

What's the difference between being concentrated in, or heavily weighted toward, a few very specific markets, and being undiversified?

Two words for the same thing, in this context, is it not?

In the example above, there's circa 20% of the investment in S&P500, and another 20% in more 'general' US equities'.

So 40% of the total is in US and US tech - hardly diverse.

The benchmark for diversification is whole market weighting. Anything that moves away from that is moving towards concentration in a particular sector.

US tech could go pop this year. However it could also continue to generate amazing returns. You are more likely to miss out on the amazing returns by being underweighted than you are to make a killing if it goes pop.

What *should* the weighting be for US tech stocks? Why do you know better than the combined knowledge of every other investor?

Why do you know better than the combined knowledge of every other investor?

I never said I did, my original question was around the mechanics of different funds on different platforms, specifialy one I can use within an ISA wrapper......not which funds to invest in.

For example that vanguard fund has 19% in US equities and another 18% in S&P500, and I might (for example) want to weight things a little differently, say remove 2% from each of the above, and that would give me 4% to add to a european or japanese fund.

Equally the vanguard example has 0.6% in the FTSE 250, so I would ask, why even bother with 0.6%? if I put 20k in overall, that represents an investment of £125, basically pointless...

If it helps to provide context, I'm mortgage free, and have 'safe' savings in a cash ISA (just over £40k) Premium bonds at £50k, and 200k in an instant acess savings account.

So with next years ISA allowance I'm planing on pulling 20k out of my instant savings account to put into an S&S ISA to 'speculate' a bit.

The whole point of Vanguard funds are they are driven by index weights not what is “worthwhile” or “right”; if you want to pass judgement you are entering the world of active management to a degree.  How might you overweight something you “approve of”….? Invest, say, 96% of what you intended into the Vanguard fund and invest the balance into your favoured European or Japanese tracker.  But the fact is……take a view off the index and you are making an active decision and your results may be better or they may be worse than simply staying put.

With T212 like the way you can build your own pie, say for example I could have an s&p500 etf, an emerging market etf, and maybe 2 more, say Asia pacific and Europe just for example..each split 25% of the money.

Question is can you do this within an ISA wrapper?

Click the little down arrow at the top of the app screen where it says "212 Invest" or "212 ..........." whichever type of account you're currently looking at.

It'll bring up the menu with links to

212 Invest

212 Stocks ISA

212 CFD

212 Cash Isa

Click "212 Stocks ISA"

Deposit some funds (they sit there as cash earning interest just like a cash isa until you actually invest them, ditto if you sell shares they just go back to the cash pot of your portfolio).

Buy stocks and ETF's

Get Rich*

*just like iPhone adverts, sequences may be shortened

US tech could go pop this year. However it could also continue to generate amazing returns. You are more likely to miss out on the amazing returns by being underweighted than you are to make a killing if it goes pop.

What *should* the weighting be for US tech stocks? Why do you know better than the combined knowledge of every other investor?

+1

Will the tech sector go pop, who knows.  Is it a overheated, yes.  But unlike the dot.com bubble these companies* are actually making obscene profits.

It might crash tomorrow, it might go up another 20% next year. Same in 2026.  My strategy as I've got at least 20 years to retirement even if I'm lucky is IMO I'm better off having that ETF now and it going up then down than I am waiting a year watching it go up.  The bad news might** never happen.

*except microstratergy, they're just a small software company that keeps diluting their shares and buying bitcoins.

** it will go down, it will also go up.  Weigh up the advice of anyone who claims to know when and how much against whether they have a time machine and more money than god.

Deposit some funds (they sit there as cash earning interest just like a cash isa until you actually invest them, ditto if you sell shares they just go back to the cash pot of your portfolio).

Thanks, I think that's the confusing bit with T212 - you have to actually deposit real cash before you can see  and choose what you want within the “212 Stocks ISA” ?

I have my cash ISA with them already, so thought it might be easier to keep it all on the same platform from an admin/keeping track of things perspective.

if you want to pass judgement you are entering the world of active management to a degree.

That's why I like the idea of 'building your own pie' on T212 ... I could emulate the vanguard life strategy fund (or whatever) to a large extent, but put a bit more weight into some ETF funds... and a bit less in some others... but the 'build your own pie' option only seems to be available (in test mode at least) under 'investment account' rather than under the S&S ISA account, if that makes sense.

Thanks, I think that’s the confusing bit with T212 – you have to actually deposit real cash before you can see  and choose what you want within the “212 Stocks ISA” ?

I don't know as I've obviously got one open with money in it.  But once you have the isa you can search for stocks, ETF's etc and see other peoples shared pies etc.

It does create a little bit of admin headache in that you need to set up your monthly transfer in your bank account to deposit into T212.  Then set-up auto-invest on the pie a day or two later.  If it clashes with a weekend and the transfer doesn't happen then it doesn't work.  And it ends up accumulating those few days interest as cash so you have to log in once in a while to deposit them into something.

That’s why I like the idea of ‘building your own pie’ on T212 … I could emulate the vanguard life strategy fund (or whatever) to a large extent, but put a bit more weight into some ETF funds… and a bit less in some others… but the ‘build your own pie’ option only seems to be available (in test mode at least) under ‘investment account’ rather than under the S&S ISA account, if that makes sense.

Yes, click "+ new pie" then "custom" (the other options are model which has a few sparse wisdom tree and BlackRock pies, and community pie which are the ones other people have shared).

AFAIK the "trading" and the "Stocks ISA" windows are identical apart from one is an ISA and there's a few things you can't buy in an ISA. Occasionally gives me a heart attack as I've got a fee hundred in cashback in the trading account invested in similar shares to the isa but started at different times so opening the app and seeing -50% where is should be +25% but ones £10 and the others a lot more!

maybe take a look at monevator - the slow and steady portfolio. the exact spread may not suit but the methods are likely sound?

or be mindful of costs and go for an all in one lifestrategy style. IIRC once you're over 38k vanguard adds up.

or be mindful of costs and go for an all in one lifestrategy style. IIRC once you’re over 38k vanguard adds up.

Yeah thats what kind put me off vanguard (as a platform) With something like T212 I can have a vangard S&P and 'some other ETF's' from other providers, just as a random example, a wisdomtree cybersecurity ETF, etc, etc. all within an ISA wrapper?

you can do that with vanguard. if you're planning on piling more in over the next year or two then vanguard still makes sense. also, at your age, i'd be asking whether or not just going the SIPP route wouldn't be worthwhile? difficult to turn down an immediate 20% uplift? you appear to already have more than substantial cash on hand for a rainy day.

you can do that with vanguard. if you’re planning on piling more in over the next year or two then vanguard still makes sense. also, at your age, i’d be asking whether or not just going the SIPP route wouldn’t be worthwhile? difficult to turn down an immediate 20% uplift? you appear to already have more than substantial cash on hand for a rainy day.

Yes I'm thinking of putting into a SIPP also, but that would be a seperate lump sum from cash savings, as my cash savings are my largest pot, and they are only making 4.1%AER at the moment, and the gains are taxable.

I appreciate the tax bonuses with a SIPP, but I don't realy like the idea of having it totally locked away until I'm 57 or whatever the age is - my understanding is you cant pull that money out, once it's 'in' without getting shafted on the tax benefits.

55 actually and you can't pull it out at all,except in exceptional circumstances , ie stage 4 cancer.

You are very lucky to be able to pile the maximum amount in to a pension . Claim back the tax at 40% so it's grossed up .
Then build a nice sum in the most tax efficient way, enjoying compound growth as well. Then draw it down at the 25% tax band rate at 55.
The tax rebate is always going to get a better rate of return than emerging markets etc and worrying about .2% or .3% fund costs become less of a thing.
Then stick half of it in vwrl , 10% in a FTSE tracker , 10% in far east excl Japan , 10% in Europe and 20% in life strategy 100.

55 actually and you can’t pull it out at all,except in exceptional circumstances , ie stage 4 cancer.

rising to 57 from 6 April 2028

Well watching the S+P 500 this morning, this thread has aged like milk in a Columbia student's dorm room.

And the US market isn't even open yet.

Although this does somewhat illustrate my point, you'd (currently, although it's still falling) still have been better off investing a month ago because todays crash is less than the gains this year so far.  Check back at lunch.

You are very lucky to be able to pile the maximum amount in to a pension . Claim back the tax at 40% so it’s grossed up .
Then build a nice sum in the most tax efficient way, enjoying compound growth as well. Then draw it down at the 25% tax band rate at 55.
The tax rebate is always going to get a better rate of return than emerging markets etc and worrying about .2% or .3% fund costs become less of a thing.

Yea, I see your point and I max out my pension to put everything above the 40% threshold into it.  But in the 20% rate it's less beneficial because I'd just be paying 20% on the pension anyway so I'm still trying to put as much spare cash into the ISA as possible.  Depends entirely on your disposable income Vs lifestyle. I live relatively frugally except for the mortgage / house (big-ish house, no car, no kids, no trips to the Maldives).  I'd like to get to my mid 50's and have options.  Maybe I'll be fit and healthy and want to work a bit longer. Maybe I'll want to retire formally and take that 25%.  Maybe I'll want to take a few months / years off and then come back to work to pay for retirement.

Maybe I'll be lucky with investments and want to sail around the world on a yacht?  Maybe we'll want to do a Grand Designs?  Pensions don't let you do that as you'd have to draw it down in year 1 at 40% to fund it.

Not prioritizing pension contributions would almost always be poor financial advice.  But beyond that it depends what you want. I personally don't really want the "retirement drinks in the pub, some JL vouchers, a handshake and an annuity" binary type of retirement. My preference is more for financial independence and flexibility sooner rather than later.

SQQQ might be the diversity you need *insert sweating emoji*

So with next years ISA allowance I’m planing on pulling 20k out of my instant savings account to put into an S&S ISA to ‘speculate’ a bit.

You definitely don't want that £200k decreasing in real value by 2% or 3% each year. At least shovel it across to your cash ISA as fast as you can, even if you don't go S&S ISA.