Interrailing aged 15 without parents.... Too young?

Probably depends on the kid. Would you say 16 is fine (generally) then?

Edit, just read the article. The kid has just done his GCSEs and is young for the year. Most of his mates will be 16. A lot of kids are off doing stuff without parents at that point so it's a non story imo.

In the 70s or 80s maybe not but nowadays it's a bit much for the average 15yo

Dunno, very much depends on.the kid,.where they're going and how they're keeping tabs on them.

At age 15 I was a 6 foot lump and if I'd had the sense of a loaf of sourdough I'd have probably been fine.

It's very borderline though.

Was it not Kirsty that booked seats separate from her kids on a flight?

I think she's wanting a break from her kids but taking it to extremes

I thought this would be practical advice for a forum member, where i had some tips

I’m not judging others about this

It's all about the kids, thier progression to independence and thier character.
Ours were spending a few weeks in Morzine with pals that age.

I went youth hosteling at 14. MrsD travelled to Canada on her own in her GCSE summer.

Kirstie allsopp is a bellend in general, but on this I would trust a parent to know their own kid.

In the 70s or 80s maybe not but nowadays it’s a bit much for the average 15yo

I'd have said it was easier, and safer, now given access to 24*7 communications and everything the internet can offer in terms of translation services, timetables, accommodation information etc.

Not a chance.  16 is too young to be travelling around multiple countries on their own.  It’s too young to drive, drink, vote and even rent a property in most parts of Europe.  Kids at 16 are still pretty stupid and almost totally immune to risks, cause and effect.

I started work at 15.

Kids nowadays,etc,etc 🙂

If the kid is capably why not? Mine wouldn't cope but I'm sure others would.

Not really

The media have most folk scared of the day they’ve never seen.

Id be more worried about them getting the bus into the city centre tbh.

Both my lads were working at 15 having left school to earn. If they hd decided to head abroad I’d have let them , I trust them enough.

I started work at 12, but thats a few hours out each working day and returning home.  It’s not 3 weeks in a plethora of countries whose rules, laws and languages you don't know when you’re thousands of miles and a number of days travel from those who have responsibility for you.

Daily mail headline is entertaining though - implies the social workers are interfering again...

Just imagine the outrage if they hadn't been in touch with the lovely middle class Kirsty.

Although I can't help thinking she could have potentially avoided all this if she hadn't been humble bragging all over Facebook ?

EDIT - ? was of course a smiley.

Harry_the_SpiderFull Member
If the kid is capably why not?

because capable at home isn't the same as capable in totally unfamiliar surroundings and if something goes wrong, you’re placing a whole lot of YOUR responsibility into the hands of others by not being in even the same country.

Point of order - Kirsty Allsopp is not middle class!

In the 70s or 80s maybe not but nowadays it’s a bit much for the average 15y

Casually offensive in exactly the same way as if I said that all people turning 15 in the 70s or 80s are now technophobic incompetent hand-wringers who cheer for Farage and still haven’t figured out how contactless payments work. See, it’s not nice when it’s you on the receiving end.

100% depends on the 15 yr old and one would assume that the people who’ve known him for the entire 15 years of his life are best judged to make that assessment. And it’s not as if KA is short of cash, he’ll have had the ability to walk into any hotel and get a room if he needed it, probably including the presidential suite.

My school had a bursery scheme each year funded by an old boys gift to cover educational travel.

Me and a mate applied after O levels as we were going to visit the Roman sites we’d learnt about doing Latin (part of the deal was to do a write up of our travels).

No-one else bothered so we had the full fund for that year. Had a week charging around Italy, picking guide books (to do the write up) then hit the beaches on the Costa Brava

I started work at 15.

Kids nowadays,etc,etc 🙂

I started work at 13. Part time with my dad and uncle. 9 hours on a Saturday 8 on Sunday.

I'm pretty sure it was a plot by my mum to make sure I didn't join the family firm.

I worked with some 16 year old lads who couldn't work out how much the pay was each week. 9 hours sat, 8 hours Sunday at £2 an hour. Same as last week, same every week.

They probably shouldn't be inter railing at 15. They had left school at 16.

I decided aged 17 to ride the 180 miles to Inverness. I'd never ridden more than 5 miles in one go or stayed overnight anywhere on my own. I can't remember what my folks thought about it. I very much doubt they suggested it.

Some of the 15 year olds I teach would be 100% fine and have a great trip. Some would run out of money in the center of the very first city they got to

Not too young, I hitchhiked to Spain and traveled around when I was 16 (late 80’s).

Fuss over nothing and been done to death on the likes of LBC/R5 etc last week

Working and traveling at 16 too. I can use a computer.

Seems crazy to me that Social Services have become involved when no harm has come to the now 16 year old young adult. Probably less to this story than tabloid journalists and attention seeking parent makes out.

Point of order – Kirsty Allsopp is not middle class!

Thats the Honorable Kirsty Alsopp to you.

The silly woman was reported to social services after desperately trying to be inspiring- so they had a duty to respond.

I am sure that a lot of 15 yr olds would be responsible and able enough to travel with a group of friends across europe. The risk of course is that a typical group of 15/16 year olds abroad without any parental/adult supervision are probably going to do something silly ..

Seems crazy to me that Social Services have become involved when no harm has come to the now 16 year old young adult

If something is reported to social services they have to investigate.  They may be able to close the investigation quickly after a quick chat with the parent / kid and determining they don't have any concerns for their safety but they can't refuse to investigate or close it before they're satisfied the child is safe.

that a typical group of 15/16 year olds

I spend much of my working life with this age group and a little older. There is no such thing as typical at this age. Some I'd trust with my life (or the life of the child they are instructing) whilst others are incapable of safely transporting a pencil case. They are like a shit version of an 11 year old with all the good bits removed.

Inter railing at 15 or 16 takes a particular type of kid AND a particular type of parent back home to handle it.

I can say with certainty that any child of Ms Allsop will have seen their fair share of airports, train stations, countries and cultures. This won't be their first rodeo, even if the first one solo.

Edit - very interesting to know (well, interestingish - can't actually be arsed to look) if a mirror thread to this one on Mumsnet would have different responses.

Totally fine if the young person is of a sensible disposition.

Depends on the 15 year old. Binnerette number 2 flew to France on her own last year, aged 15, to meet up with her mates then they travelled down through France and Spain on trains to Barcelona. She’s very mature and sensible and we weren’t remotely worried about her. Didn’t think twice about letting her go.  She had a great time.

Depends on the kid, doesn't it. A child who is 15 years and 364 days doesn't magically adultise two days later. Social Services was right to ask questions, the answer being "it's all fine."

In the 70s or 80s maybe not but nowadays it’s a bit much for the average 15yo

WTF? What's the difference?

Daily mail headline is entertaining though – implies the social workers are interfering again…

Just imagine the outrage if they hadn’t been in touch with the lovely middle class Kirsty.

Quite. If social services hadn't checked in, the Heil would've dined out on it for months.

Depends very much on child, where they are going and where they grew up.  For most a trip round mainstream Europe at 15 should be just fine, especially if you have access to parents cash if you get in trouble.  Back in the days of travelers cheques, reverse charges calls and no automatic translation it's different.

Having said that though I also know of someone who at 18 got into trouble that they wouldn't have at 15 just because they were then a bit too open for trouble.  Maybe 15 is a better age

because capable at home isn’t the same as capable in totally unfamiliar surroundings and if something goes wrong, you’re placing a whole lot of YOUR responsibility into the hands of others by not being in even the same country.

Indeed.
But ours were travelling the UK on trains solo at 13. Whether a change in Birmingham or Barcelona, I would still have been hours and hours away. So they learned to manage things. They were taught from an early age who to go to for help (parent with kids, someone in uniform, big chain shop staff etc). We had a few wobbles.
When one of ours was in Morzine for 3 weeks at 16 I was more concerned about a friend's kid of same age who was off to Glastonbury.... My biggest worry in Morzine was him trying to keep up with Steve Peat in a mates race....

At 15 I was hitch hiking down to Cornwall from London and  virtually every weekend up to Derbyshire for the next three years climbing at Stoney Middleton. I then graduated to hitching around Europe and then southern Africa. I  lived to tell the tale, great positive experiences and very few scrapes (although there were a few). It was an education and took me to places I would otherwise never had had the money to visit.

“We” intentionally send 14 yr olds into the wild and insist on them camping, cooking their own food, and not using mobile phones are as part of DoE expeditions.  Whilst there is “supervision” there it’s supposed to be be sufficiently remote that if someone falls and breaks a limb, gets taken ill, gets wildly lost they are relying in the first instance on a bunch of 14 yr olds to manage the initial emergency.  In contrast most of this “group” were 16, would all have had phones, been in populated areas with cash to buy themselves out of trouble; and with mummy almost certainly able to hop on a flight at moments notice to bring him home if there was a problem.

I don’t think it’s just about the sense/maturity of the 15 yr old, but the particular group of friends he’s with.  The reality is your suitability doesn’t change at 15y364 days v’s 16y1d. Realistically lots of 15 y olds will get in all sorts of bother in the U.K. and plenty of 18/19 yr olds go abroad and get in serious bother.  But plenty don’t.

A bit naive to shout about it on social media, especially given she has a “following” of people who don’t like her and would take joy in having her squirm in front of social work.   BUT I’m not a fan of hers in general, I think the point she thought she was making was a valid one.

Depends on the kid.

I'd want to see a "practice trip" in the UK first, then "yes.

Although I recently had to accompany Thump to Birmingham as he was under 18 and competition rules demanded a chaperone.

Thud has been bopping around Scotland by train since he was 12. Have skateboard,  will travel.

We bricked it when our daughter said she was going interailing at 18.

Our reason for the worry was that she was just starting to recover from chronic fatigue. Which meant she hadn’t really left the house for 5 years. She certainly hadn’t been to school in that time. She had done some uk train travel to visit friends towards the end.

Mrs Ampthill decided saying no wasn’t the answer. So we called in every favour we could. Elder brother got her to Paris and did a few days with her. Train to Geneva to stay with a mate and f my dads. Train to Northern Italy to stay with some mates of mine. She then did Rome and Pompei on her own and flew home.

We had some really funny calls home

“I’m walking round Rome at night and it’s really scary. I’ve decided to follow a group of nuns. Surely no one messes with nuns”

Non story IMO. I empathise as I’m the parent of a child with an August birthday who has always been a year younger on paper than most of his peers in his school year but not a year younger in terms of maturity. It depends on the individual, but I’d imagine that there are many year 11 students with the maturity and independence to travel safely with a group of their peers (plus to put it in context, at this age the person involved will be only a few weeks from being eligible for starting the D of E gold award).

I have more issue with the complaint about the file remaining open, as this should be the default position (celebrity or not).

When I was 15 I travelled from Kent to Hull solo to stay with my sis who was at University there. Jealous he got to do Europe.

Girl I knew at University spent her secondary education commuting from the UK (lower league public school) to the Middle East (dad worked in oil). In the early years she had chaperone from school to airport & then looked after by airline staff.  By the time she was 13/14 she got a list to the nearest train station and then made her own way.

Neighbour sent their kids off to boarding school at an age that seemed ridiculously young to me (at the time) but that was how it worked. They were more independent because of it.

At the age of 16/17 I would get on a train and go from the North West, down through London (via Tube) then a bus out to a military base somewhere. No mobile phone, it was just what you did.

We kind of twitched and tracked our 18yr old daughter on a train journey from Scotland to the North West recently - she arrived in one piece but the fact that we could track more meant that we used that functionality rather than behaving as our parents had. Maybe kids are just a little more molly-coddled today generally ?

Maybe kids are just a little more molly-coddled today generally ?

I think there's a small, but vocal, section of society who do this now. Despite, as scotroutes points out, the modern world is both safer and much easier to get in contact for some advice...

At that age I'd certainly done intercity rail travel round Scotland and plenty kids flew home unescorted. Again, non-story.

Contrast to my daughter who's 11 and genuinely never made her own way anywhere. Not by our choice FWIW.

Totally depends on the kid. @Lister and I spent a week cycling around the lakes, youth hosteling in the summer just after our GCSSEs. So I would have been 16 and him 15. None of our parents were looming in the area as they were all working. We had a couple of OS maps, some cash for food and a rough plan.

My mum and dad just bunged me on a flight unaccompanied to Belgium for two weeks when I was 12. Took me to check-in at Newcastle and told me to get on with it. Was awesome. Doubt an airline would actually allow that now.

Yeah, too young.

I guess he's an august child like me, so done and received gcse's but all his mates are 16. I didn't go inter-railing, but started work in Morrisons on the checkout out and stacking shelves! Too young by their rule book, but accepted because I'd got my gcse's.

I know people who sent their daughter to Leeds festival at 15. I'd be more worried  about those few days than weeks around several different countries!

I can say with certainty that any child of Ms Allsop will have seen their fair share of airports, train stations, countries and cultures. This won’t be their first rodeo, even if the first one solo.

TBH this was what I was thinking, he was sort of brought up with travelling.

I think the 15 years old was muddying the waters as all his classmates were older (not sure how many months he was behind) and 16, which is old enough to join the army but not fight.

The majority of kids at his age have 24/7 accessibility to parents money and a multitude of resources  via the phone, way more than we had in the 70,80’s

As we have seen with the rioting,age isn’t exactly an indicator of much.

(I think he’s back so he managed to survive it)

Interrailing.

That's Number-wang!!!

Yeah, I would be more worried about festivals but instead my son jumped on a 5hr train ride to Dartmoor and wild camped/ hiked for a few days. Now he's done that he's keen for more. Plenty of national parks accessible by train here and in Europe. Seems a reasonable plan to me.

Working and travelling at 16 too. I can use a computer.

I was doing (unaccompanied) trips to europe at that age and younger, meeting up with chaperones once i'd already done the tricky stuff (ferry or flight with a bike, kit and clothes etc). Home life, well, i was living 90% independently from 14 due to reasons. I'd probably have been put into care these days.

I too can use computers. And design them, sort of.

This kid is probably not too young at all.

My brother was in the same boat as i, but a couple of years younger. He wouldn't manage, christ, he was still having to be bailed out/collected/coached into his early/mid 20's. He's got nothing wrong with him, mentally or otherwise. Thankfully he's doing *much* better now. Still all but IT illiterate.

So if it was my brother, probably too young.

Maybe kids are just a little more molly-coddled today generally ?

Dunno,I always thought people were more worried about stuff than they should.

Living life is inherently with ‘risks’

Its perception of risk and a click bait media that always looks for the worst to serve up for the viewers entertainment  🙂

He’s getting a train around mainland Europe, not walking solo across Syria

Maybe kids are just a little more molly-coddled today generally ?

In addition to individuals being, well, individual; I do think there will be an element of parental self-confirmation in this too. If you are the sort of parent that drives your kid to school because you are worried about who might acost them on the way there and would not dream of letting them stop over in a tent overnight with their mates you'd never dream of letting them interrail at that age, and you'd be right to, because the evidence you see with your own eyes in your child does not demonstrate the qualities needed. They have neither developed them, or proved them to you or themselves so neither of you will have the confidence that it will end well or be enjoyable. Conversely, if you are the sort of parent that has handed over, bit by bit, responsibility for their independence as they grew older you'll reach that age and both you and they will know if it's right for them.

See Laura Dekker ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laura_Dekker) for parenting inspiration or nightmares depending on your personal chemistry.

I'd say parenting with high levels of independence takes two generations to embed and two generations to lose.

“I’m walking round Rome at night and it’s really scary. I’ve decided to follow a group of nuns. Surely no one messes with nuns”

Top trolling by Ms Ampthill!

Inter-railing is probably safer than them cycling to the shops for milk.

I think we're confusing what the issue is here. Non of the people who are talking about their own experiences or the actions of their children have had a door knock from the social services. So this is a story about something quite specific, in that someone felt moved to inform the authorities about something quite specific. That might be because they had insight to harm or a risk of harm,, something more than can be construed from a tweet. Our it might have been plane old malice, but even in the latter case they'd still have to have described something concerning beyond 'well he's 15', specific enough, and someone close enough to be able to provide an address too presumably.

Ive worked with Kirsty Alsopp on a few occasions - I think she can be best described as self-assuredly thoughtless. I've never worked on jobs that have so many producers and their main job seems to be to pick up the pieces as she's carelessly and casually breezed in, set everything on fire, using words and gestures that look like ideas, planning and expertise, and walked away blinkered to the consequences. She has everyone over a barrel because although all those folk and supposed to be in charge and have all the legal and moral duties and responsibilities  that go with that - she owns the company.  It's quite good fun to watch.

The social services’ question is not on the face of it an unreasonable one. From what I understand they didn’t say 15 was too young: they asked a parent what safeguarding measures had been put in place. If they didn’t ask this about an unaccompanied child holidaymaker or holidaymakers they arguably wouldn’t be doing their job. For me Allsop’s loud and public protestations about being asked this say more about her than they do about anything else. She hasn’t said what safeguarding measures she has put in place, and though it sounds like she didn’t answer properly from her complaints, and it’s probably none of our business anyway; I’m somewhat more reassured in knowing that social services are taking an interest in the situations of solo child tourists who might put themselves in risky situations and what their parents are doing to maintain their responsibility.

ve worked with Kirsty Alsopp on a few occasions – I think she can be best described as self-assuredly thoughtless. I’ve never worked on jobs that have so many producers and their main job seems to be to pick up the pieces as she’s carelessly and casually breezed in, set everything on fire, using words and gestures that look like ideas, planning and expertise, and walked away blinkered to the consequences. She has everyone over a barrel because although all those folk and supposed to be in charge and have all the legal and moral duties and responsibilities  that go with that – she owns the company.

@zomg - I think you’ve just summed up what’s happened to the country for the last 14 years 😉

To add to my earlier comment on Ms Allsop sending the kids out on an adventure is fine so long as one does not then go off on a jaunt somewhere. A parent has to be available to pick up the pieces and retrieve the distressed at short notice. Those with Scouts away on camp know this as leaders can not be spared to bring the child home.

Maybe kids are just a little more molly-coddled today generally ?

Maybe yes.  What I did as a teen would be seen as odd these days.  Weeks of youth hostelling and camping in the lakes and Scotland from 13 I think, exploring Glasgow and its surrounds by bike at weekends.  Most places would be safer than 70s Glasgow now?

As for Allsop - once a serious sounding complaint has been made then it has to be investigated.  The whole thing rests upon the competence of the child not his age.  It could have been a bunch of sensible boys away having an adventure or it could have been a bunch of lost children.

It depends on the child IMV.

However the children that are most at risk are probably the least likely to be getting adequate parental supervision and risk assessment in the first place.

I also think putting an arbitrary age on things is a bit silly when full brain maturity doesn't happen until ~ 25.

I went around France by train with my best mate after GCSEs, when I was 16 and one month. Our first mistake was misreading the 24hr clock and realising our train out of Paris left at 7am the next day not 7pm. That was a long night wandering Gare de Lyon. This was in the late 80s and I'd been at boarding school since the age of 8 so I was very independent already. These days, with mobile phones and all the information you'd need at the touch of button, I can't see the problem.

reassured in knowing that social services are taking an interest in the situations of solo child tourists who might put themselves in risky situations and what their parents are doing to maintain their responsibility.

this^^

Now the original notification may have come from a genuinely concerned family/person or a complete muppet that( for many reasons) just wants to wind things up and cause the child's family to have a hard time.

If any of the (many) services that deal with child protection get a notification that a child may be at risk,it's their duty to check the details.

If you work in any of these agencies  ( or your partner does), you know that with any intervention, they are often 'damned if they do too much or damned if they don't'.

100% depends on the 15 yr old and one would assume that the people who’ve known him for the entire 15 years of his life are best judged to make that assessment.

This basically. I'm not really a fan of Allsopp but she knows her son better than any of the hand wringers.

Yes, social services have to investigate everything that's brought to them, but I strongly suspect that this complaint is from self-righteous social media user who's got a chip on their shoulder about something mildly controversial that Kirsty Allsop has said in the past.

If so the complainant needs to take a long hard look at themselves IMV.

We kind of twitched and tracked our 18yr old daughter on a train journey from Scotland to the North West recently

Isn't this a little odd? She's old enough to be on her second child herself.

Dunno,I always thought people were more worried about stuff than they should.

Yeah. I kind of bristle at the "it's not safe these days" narrative. It's certainly no less safe than "when I was your age," it's just that we're so very much better at reporting problems nowadays rather than pretending they don't exist.

I strongly suspect that this complaint is from self-righteous social media user who’s got a chip on their shoulder about something mildly controversial that Kirsty Allsop has said in the past.

Based on what?

Based on what?

Based on the fact that it’s an absolutely ridiculous thing to report to social services.

It's not a serious-sounding complaint. A 15 year old has gone on holiday with a bunch of mates. What is the basis for any report to social services? In what sense might this be actionable or noteworthy in any way?

(If the malicious reporter had said something like, an 8 year old has gone off on holiday by themselves, then probably social services should check to clarify that the lad wasn't actually 8, at which point the matter would be closed, not "held on file" in case of further reports.)

Age 14 I took a bus to the station, a train to London, the tube to a different station, a train to Salisbury and a bus to Larkhill. I then spent a week learning how to  fire a 25 pounder howitzer then came home on my own. Totally unremarkable.

Based on the fact that it’s an absolutely ridiculous thing to report to social services.

Oh, I had no idea you were being so scientific. 🙂

Based on what?

Have you been on social media recently? ----insert wink emoji----

It’s too young to drive, drink, vote and even rent a property in most parts of Europe. Kids at 16 are still pretty stupid and almost totally immune to risks, cause and effect.

Who cares about most parts of Europe? There’s 46-51 separate countries in Europe, depending on definition and recognition. They’ve all got different laws about many different things. And a great many adults are pretty stupid and almost totally immune to risks, cause and effect. Some of them actually run entire countries, businesses and armies.

What was your point again, caller?

Maybe kids are just a little more molly-coddled today generally ?
I think there’s a small, but vocal, section of society who do this now.

I was walking to school on my own at 7, including through the winter of 1963, (I was the first kid in my school to wear long trousers!) I was off playing over the fields outside of town, often on my own at that age; thinking about it now, if I’d fallen somewhere and hurt myself badly, nobody would have known where I was, we didn’t have a phone in the house, few people I knew did, but nobody worried about things like that.

No, not too young. IME kids are more likely to do something daft at 19 than 15.

@pondo I'm no particular fan of hers, but to report her to social services based on her son going on holiday with his mates is both petty and shows a complete disrespect for social service's time.

Very very much depends on the kid. I knew some at 15 who make bad adults now. Others were fine. We were all doing the same dumb stuff, just some of us had sense not to do the REALLY dumb stuff. The world isn’t that much different today in many regards, it’s just that we are fed a diet of sensationalised news 24/7.

I’m no particular fan of hers, but to report her to social services based on her son going on holiday with his mates is both petty and shows a complete disrespect for social service’s time.

To be fair, that continues the unsubstantiated assumption that the report was solely out of spite.

Do any of you recall the very recent story of the kid who missed that last bus home in Tenerife?  He was 17 and it didn’t end well.

To be fair, that continues the unsubstantiated assumption that the report was solely out of spite.

. . . rather than the unsubstantiated assumption that the report was solely out of genuine concern.

I remember not so long ago when a middle aged-man went out for a walk on a hot day, and never made it. I guess we need a curfew for the over-60s too in case another one of them might get into trouble.

Only thing about this story is that it reminded me of how horrible a human being Kirsty Allsop is, she'll be using this to feed her ego and moan about the UK no doubt in the coming weeks.

The 17y old was a news story because he was 17 and made a bad call.  The second was because the person was famous and was unfortunate.

This thread is about whether a 15/16y old minor has a suitable appreciation of risks to be allowed to go unsupervised across multiple European countries.

Heck, if we transpose this to the Shamima Begum thread, most people were arguing that at 15, she had no clue of what she was doing nor the consequences of her actions.

So, at 15/16 are kids (as that’s what they are) responsible/capable?  If yes, why can’t they drive, drink or vote?