[Closed] Interesting day with the 'neighbours' (police content)

Axes are so out of date, I have a modern version for sale if anyone should want it:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180660263089&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT

Makes a better noise too!

The difference clearly comes from the fact that one was initiated by the evil of another, whereas RLJing is done purely through laziness and so is abhorent.

Both wrong and the reason is irrelevant.

Threatening someone with an axe is more evil than criminal damage - would you not say?

coffeeking - Member

Totally agree, a lot of double standards on this forum - shame on you

The difference clearly comes from the fact that one was initiated by the evil of another, whereas RLJing is done purely through laziness and so is abhorent.

I remember a police officer saying that EDL (English Defense League) were creating muslim extremism.........No chance to the Liberal middle class (Elfinsafety)that it could have been the other way round?

Being a middle class liberal is not just about your income it is about your attitude or you could say your state of mind

I love it when [i]"middle class liberal"[/i] is cast as an insult. 🙂
Especially as it probably describes a pretty large majority of the UK these days.

You never seem to hear "upper class fascist" or "working class Trotskyite" used with quite the same contempt.

I remember a police officer saying that EDL (English Defense League) were creating muslim extremism.........No chance to the Liberal middle class (Elfinsafety)that it could have been the other way round?

Not sure I understand.

Threatening someone with an axe is more evil than criminal damage - would you not say?

Not if you have no intention of using it and are at your wits end from something they do to you, no, not at all.

rewski
Both wrong and the reason is irrelevant.

Threatening someone with an axe is more evil than criminal damage - would you not say?

Not if you have no intention of using it and are at your wits end from something they do to you, no, not at all

irrelevant, who do you know there's no intention, get real.

rrelevant, who do you know there's no intention, get real.

I am real, and I'd have no problems in not using a weapon. I do, after all, have control over my actions. Are you suggesting if you put a weapon in someones hand they're incapable of just waving it at people and must use it? I've been there, I can empathise. Of course I don't know what the OPs intentions were but since he probably COULD have used it but chose not to and walked away, it's a fairly good indication that he has enough self control.

Completely beyond you to grasp that people can only take so much?

Not at all, I just think using an axe is way too extreme, he's on the wrong side of the law straight away, imagine if there was a scuffle and the weapon used on himself or others. It happens.

rewski - Member

I remember a police officer saying that EDL (English Defense League) were creating muslim extremism.........No chance to the Liberal middle class (Elfinsafety)that it could have been the other way round?

Not sure I understand.

The difference clearly comes from the fact that one was initiated by the evil of another,

Brandyberryj

Oh what fun - Elfin is liberal middle class and I live in suburbia?

Yuu really are a plonker Elfin is a smurf and I live in junkiehookersville (according to some)

Self-professed 'Liberal' in Not-Being-Very-Liberal-at-All Shocka!!

I believe its frightfully fashionable nowadays in the capital*

*See Nick Clegg, Simon Hughes, Douglas Alexandra, Vince Cable etc etc etc etc

rewski - Member

Completely beyond you to grasp that people can only take so much?

Not at all, I just think using an axe is way too extreme, he's on the wrong side of the law straight away, imagine if there was a scuffle and the weapon used on himself or others. It happens.

TandemJeremy - Member
Brandyberryj

Oh what fun - Elfin is liberal middle class and I live in suburbia?

Yuu really are a plonker Elfin is a smurf and I live in junkiehookersville (according to some)

The alternative would be hiding in your house hoping they don't steal/damage too much.

Confronting them without a visible deterrent (i.e. an axe) would have probably resulted in a fight.

Personally, I don't like the idea of either.

@ brandeberryj

The old women that killed her mentally retard child and herself because of the daily harassment both physically and verbally was no doubt, to you much more in the wrong than the perpetrators?

I think you're being a bit dramatic here, that case was very sad, the police should have done more. But if you read the original post some kids damaged his property, OK so it may have happened a few times, I know what I'll do, I'll wave a great big **** off axe at them, that'll shut them up.

Come on rewski you can not tell me you are certain you not loose it in any circumstance and use something that is immediatly to hand?

If my family are in danger of being harmed then maybe, not over a fence though.

Can I have some of what brandeberryj is smoking? it sounds like fun

GrahamS - Member

Being a middle class liberal is not just about your income it is about your attitude or you could say your state of mind

I love it when "middle class liberal" is cast as an insult.

I certainly cast it as insult but I have yet to come across one who thinks its an insult.

Especially as it probably describes a pretty large majority of the UK these days.

A large majority can you back that up? I would agree that it describes the majority of people who run this country but by no means does it reflect the majority of the people who live in this country.

You never seem to hear "upper class fascist" or "working class Trotskyite" used with quite the same contempt.

Bit iffy that GrahamS "upper class fascist" is definatly said with a lot more contempt than middle class liberal, a lot more. "working class Trotskyite" Good I can't even reclall the last time that was used must be some still about?

 

OP - You did well.

I'm surprised some people on this site manage to type with such limp wrists.

Now either move out or be prepared but not worried to have to step it up should anything else happen.

So has MuddyDwarf now gone postal on his neighbours or is he off working out the implications of a Police caution on his personal and professional life?

I don't know about muddydwarf going all Columbine, I reckon there's a more likely candidate on here at the moment....

[img] [/img]

😉

But if you read the original post some kids damaged his property,

I'm not sure mid-teens really counts as "kids". At that point male 15-16 year olds are often 6ft tall and more than capable of causing damage. At 16 I was 6'1 and 15 stone without an ounce of fat on me, if you call such a person a kid then I guess you must rarely feel intimidated, must be nice.

My father used to tell us we were working class as our grandad worked down a mine.

Trouble is my dad was the marketing director for a large multi-national, and I work in IT.

Based on the evolving nature of UK industry, I think it's true that most people are middleclass.

I'm not sure mid-teens really counts as "kids"

Kids, teens whatever, my point still stands, step up and confront them by all means, just not with a lethal weapon.

I guess you must rarely feel intimidated

I've had my moments, I had a few scuffles, IMO if you look for trouble usually you find it. I've also made a conscious effort not to live near council estates.

Elfin isn't middle class. He tries to play it down but he's actually the Marquis of Brixton. He's allowed to eat the queens swans and everything!

His real name is Rupert Alfred Charles Mountbatton-Huntingly-Smythe

I'm not sure mid-teens really counts as "kids". At that point male 15-16 year olds are often 6ft tall and more than capable of causing damage. At 16 I was 6'1 and 15 stone without an ounce of fat on me, if you call such a person a kid then I guess you must rarely feel intimidated, must be nice.

Doesn't matter how old they are - although 15/16 year olds don't yet have 'man strength', they'll be big enough to present a challenge (and if they're hooligans, they've probably got more experience of fighting than most grown men have). Also, if there's more than one you can't assume they've heard of Queensbury rules.

I certainly cast it as insult but I have yet to come across one who thinks its an insult.

I'd probably describe myself as a middle class liberal if asked. 😀
How would you describe yourself?

A large majority can you back that up?

Certainly, but you'd have to give me [i]your[/i] definition of "middle class" and "liberal" - as you've already stated your conviction that it is [i]"an attitude"[/i] rather than the more measurable facts of income, housing, political affiliation etc.

binners - Member

Elfin isn't middle class. He tries to play it down but he's actually the Marquis of Brixton. He's allowed to eat the queens swans and everything!

His real name is Rupert Alfred Charles Mountbatton-Huntingly-Smythe

I think that people who see "classes" are a bit silly, it's stupid to categorise people in such a way.

It's a bit of a difficult problem, on one hand you can't spend your life cowering in your house, but on the other hand this is what can happen when you try to do something about it (not too far from my old place):
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/7094204.stm

I always tell my parents to stay in and ignore it now I'm not there to help out anymore, but I can see their point that they don't want to feel trapped in their own home and would rather risk injury than feel victimised and bullied.

Doesn't matter how old they are - although 15/16 year olds don't yet have 'man strength'

I'm not sure you've had much to do with "capable" 16 year old lads recently if you make that sort of statement!

I've had my moments, I had a few scuffles, IMO if you look for trouble usually you find it. I've also made a conscious effort not to live near council estates.

Certainly nice if you can. If you're born there it's hard not to.

Despite being a pinko-liberal (and yes middle class, although I don't shout about it) these days, I'm on the side of the vigilantes. I grew up on a rough council estate in Newcastle and it was/still is common practice for anti-social behaviour to be 'sorted' without any involvement of the police or the law. In fact the police were generally supportive, they even told my dad off once for not giving a lad who broke our window a slap when he had the opportunity.

Still, if you're going to go down that route, make sure you're big enough and hard enough to follow it to it's logical conclusion.

I'm not sure you've had much to do with "capable" 16 year old lads recently if you make that sort of statement!

Only sparring in thai boxing and BJJ training...not actual fighting chavs on the street!

Only sparring in thai boxing and BJJ training...not actual fighting chavs on the street!

Normally the kids that go to martial arts training are those who need to be shown how to look after themselves and ultimately have more sense from it. Tis the ones with more mass and less to lose that are more dangerous.

Tis the ones with more mass and less to lose that are more dangerous.

A good point.

In sparring no one has actually 'wanted' to hurt me (as far as I'm aware!)

It's the nutters who you want to be worried about...the guys you see on those police reality programmes struggling and shouting and swearing while four policemen try to hold them down.

Sometimes called bottle coveys.

I blame cheap booze!

Why [i]is[/i] 'liberal' considered such an insult by some people?

Is 'nice' an insult too?

*STW PEDANT DISCLAIMER* the above statement is not suggesting the two are inseperable

Why is 'liberal' considered such an insult by some people?

I think it is used (by some) in the same tone of voice as [i]"politically correct"[/i] - i.e. typically by people who believe a little too much of what they read in the papers.

[url= http://www.chambersharrap.co.uk/chambers/features/chref/chref.py/main?query=liberal ]Chambers says[/url]:
[b]liberal[/b] [i]noun[/i]: someone who has liberal views, either politically or in general. [i]adj[/i] tolerant of different opinions; open-minded. in favour of social and political reform, progressive.

None of these sound like bad things to me. 🙂

Is 'nice' an insult too?

Yes, definition of 'nice' is vaguely pleasant.

I think it is used (by some) in the same tone of voice as "politically correct"

brandeberryj is Richard Littlejohn and I can has £5?

I've heard some people really do get red-ragged if you include "wine-tasting" somewhere in-between "liberal"and "middle-class" 🙂

Darcy - you nasty little jumped up lower class twerp' How very dare you!

ah - looks out of context now 😳 starting a new page

He tries to play it down but he's actually the Marquis of Brixton.

No he isn't. I'm the Marquis of Brixton and so's my wife.

ah - looks out of context now

LOLz @ TeeJeremiah

You could always edit with a quote... 😉

I would not be insulted to be called liberal ...unless you followed it with democrat

Junkyard. You are Nick Clegg and I claim my five English pounds.

You gave it away with your frequently multi-lingual typing 😉

I've had my moments, I had a few scuffles, IMO if you look for trouble usually you find it. I've also made a conscious effort not to live near council estates.

good for you, but not all trouble making youths come from council estates you know. you have quite a stereotype view. some of the little shites round here come from quite nice houses. doesn't mean they are nice people though.

@ restless - put your handbag down, I was keeping it in context

some local scrotes from the council estate

Middle Class Liberal

[i]can't remember now[/i]

It's probably time for some more medication, then.

Well you won't find me making excuses for bad people. I might try and understand how they became like that and how to prevent it in future or change them from being bad.

I have no idea what you are blethering on about with your racist joke anecdote - I cannot imagine elf saying that and I certainly would not.

Elfin isn't middle class. He tries to play it down but he's actually the Marquis of Brixton. He's allowed to eat the queens swans and everything!

His real name is Rupert Alfred Charles Mountbatton-Huntingly-Smythe

😆

Oi! Brixton??? That's SARF LAHNDAAHN, Binners ffs!

No, I prefer the Earl of Hackney, or the Baron of Stepney or something like that...

Brandyberryj; actually, I do think this issue is very serious, and as you've pointed out, ASB can make some people's lives absolute misery. This should not be tolerated at all. It is indeed sad that it happens, and yes, there are times when direct action against nasty scumbaygs is necessary. People need to be mindful of adhering to the Law as much as possible though, lest we all descend into barbarism.

I do think you have misjudged me somewhat, though, tbh.

WHINEY that was the word I was looking for!!

middle class ... socialy above chav and unemployable and below nobility.
liberal..tollerant, open to reasonable argument, not extriemist, holds cogent views.

From reading your posts brandeberryj i can see why you don't define yourself as a middle class liberal.

And yes i was being ironic when i described the youths as misunderstood.

fixed your definition for you...
"Someone who always makes excuses for.......just about every bad person? Terrorist, child molesters (as long as there muslim). Obviously the sort of people this whole thread is about. The sort of person who" undrstands problems need more exploration than can be fitted in to a sun headline????

Someone who always makes excuses for.......just about every bad person? Terrorist, child molesters (as long as there muslim). Obviously the sort of people this whole thread is about.

🙄

The Daily Mail is [url= http://www.**** ]this way[/url] 😆

The sort of person who" understands problems need more exploration than can be fitted in to a sun headline????

😀 nailed!

i hope muddydwarf had a good ride (good on you for doing 100 miles,i cannot ride that far... yet! 😉 i went out on a great ride today offroad though 😀

Well not sure that I can support my assertion that "middle class liberal" defines the majority of the UK population given your slightly Littlejohn interpretation of its meaning.

But surveys that ask people to self-describe will show a huge majority of middle class liberals.

By the way, I see you neglected to tell us how you would label your own socio-political viewpoint brandeberryj?

I imagine you will fancy yourself as something like "working class commonsense"?

Muddydwarf, you'd still in 'Dale aren't you? Might I ask which area, out of interest?

My brother does work for GMP & describes them more like Greater Manchester 'Paramilitary' than 'Police'!

Brandeberryj your post on page 1 about a warrant is wrong! The police do NOT need a warrant and probably very legally had a power to enter the property if needed.

Someone who always makes excuses for.......just about every bad person? Terrorist, child molesters (as long as there muslim). Obviously the sort of people this whole thread is about.

I thought the thread was about MuddyDwarf threatening people with an axe. An act which, to be fair, he appears to be embarrassed about in the first post. I guess you can call him a bad person if you want, he's clearly been provoked into an extreme reaction.

Coffeeking, I think you need to read the OP again if you think he's in control of his actions at all times. Specifically the bit about him completely losing his temper. It's pretty obvious when he started thinking clearly. It's when he realised the consequences of being involved in a fight whilst carrying an offensive weapon.

Personally I just cannot believe how irresponsible some people are on here. I won't condemn his actions, I've been pretty close to similar action myself. I'm just glad that he saw some sense in the end, and REALLY don't think he needs a group of immmature cheerleaders applauding with precisely zero effect on their own lives if something similar happens and it goes horribly wrong.

chest mounted go pro next time.when you have finished,grin at them.. and offer them round later to watch it on the big screen.It would clear the air.everyone would be in fits of laughter at their expressions.

don't think he needs a group of immmature cheerleaders applauding with precisely zero effect on their own lives if something similar happens and it goes horribly wrong

I think that's one of the eminently sensible things said thusfar.

don't think he needs a group of immmature cheerleaders applauding with precisely zero effect on their own lives if something similar happens and it goes horribly wrong

[img] [/img]

Good thing the worst of the scum 'round here content themselves with riding motorbikes up and down the street with no helmet. One hopes for an appropriate car/bike interface and ensuing Darwin moment, but it hasn't happened yet. Not sure which would be my choice of weapon as a deterrent; my Grölfors axe, or the Gurka Kukri I inherited. They're both [i]very, very[/i] sharp.
Regarding brandeberryj, I can't believe he/she/it isn't familiar with our beloved elfin, Lord of All He Surveys From A Great Height. Obviously not paying anywhere near enough attention. Must be all the Red Bull and vodka.

Have we all had fun on this thread then?

I had a nice day cycling to Southport and back, fish and chips at the seaside and a 92 mile round trip 8)

Right. I recieved a Simple Caution, strangely enough the Police seem to have given me BOTH copies of this, aren't they supposed to keep one?
The arresting officers have told me to ring them PERSONALLY if ANYTHING, no matter how small happens to our properties or ourselves.
I admitted what i'd done straightaway, no point in denying it and anway, i was wrong and therefore had to take my lumps.

I knew rightaway i had completely over-reacted, and i knew the police would be involved so i just waited for the knock at the door.

Dave - i'm a short stones throw from the Tesco store if you know where i mean.

Thw cops were very nice about it actually, apparently i passed the 'attitude test' whatever that is. Even got given a lift back home by them. The senior officer was livid about the whole affair, told me how frustrated he gets by the scrotes calling the police to defend them from actions they have initiated.
Anyway, if it stops the damage being done to mine and my neighbours property then maybe it was - just - worth it.

The look of fear in their faces will remain for a while though - and it's not a pleasant recollection...

[img] [/img]
pwned!

Muddydwarf, it's a nightmare situation and I feel for you out of interest exactly what offence did you get cautioned for? Just start keeping an anti-social behaviour diary with EVERYTHING in it, noises, offences, names of people involved, descriptions if you don't know them. then you can get in touch with the local NSO's and get the ball rolling to actually doing something about it rather than the unlucky situation you ended up in this weekend. I would also DEFINATELY call those officers again if you have any questions, police do not give out their numbers willy nilly (especially if it's their direct mobile phone or office number). It doesn't matter they gave you 2 copies, it's all an automated system, they print off as many copies as they want as and when they need them.

Good luck though.

MC - the initial arrest was for affray, whatever that is. One the way home the arresting officer did make a point of saying that there needed to be a victim for affray and seeing as no-one was actually touched let alone hurt in anyway....

I don't know whether that means owt or not though.

Are there different types of cautions?

No caution or conditional caution. Conditional caution is say for an criminal damage where you are cautioned on the condition you pay the victim £20 costs or whatever. if you fail to pay the costs you can then be taken to court.

an affray is a public order offence and no you don't need a victim, ur what did you actually get cautioned for (ie what offence) it will say on your caution paperwork?

Paperwork says "Affray - unlawful violence" 😳

Wasn't actually any violence, just the threat of it, enough i suppose. Don't think i'll be visiting the US anytime soon though.
How long are they active for?

How long are they active for?

Permanent. As I said earlier in the thread, you need to check your insurances as you may no longer be covered - what with you now being a member of the criminal classes.

I love the irony of someone using the phrase - twice, so it's not a typo - "mentally retard child".

Are you sure threefish? i don't think so - he has not been convicted of anything. You don't get a criminal record for a caution in the usual sense

Looks like i'll be ringing my insurers in the morning then 🙄

Oh well, could have been worse. No one got hurt and hopefully the low-level damage and trespass will finally stop.
I'm going to start dumping my used cat litter contents around the back of the garage, it's at the end of an unadopted road and the little scrotes have repeatedly been doing damage in an area where they can't be seen - at least not originally but since they pulled down my neighbours fence they have a clear passage into their garden now.
The cat mess should at least make them stink!

Unlike a conviction, a caution is never "spent".

From the Home Office website :-

"A simple caution is not a criminal conviction, but it will be recorded on the police database. It may be used in court as evidence of bad character, or as part of an anti-social behaviour order (ASBO) application.

The record will remain on the police database along with photographs, fingerprints and any other evidence taken. If you are cautioned for a sexual offence, you could be placed on the sex offenders register.

If a crime victim requests your name and address for civil proceedings, the police are legally obliged to give this information out, so you may still be sued for damages. "

Are you sure threefish? i don't think so - he has not been convicted of anything. You don't get a criminal record for a caution in the usual sense

Many underwriters will not insure people who have fraud or insurance related police cautions; some will not insure if any kind of police caution is held, although sometimes only within a particular time period.

He doesn't need to be convicted because he's admitted to an offence which can be dealt with out of court by means of a caution. The odd thing is that an actual (court) conviction can be spent after a set number of years, whereas a caution can remain 'live' indefinitely.

There isn't a fixed approach to it from insurers, which I why I suggest that the OP reads his insurance policies and confirms where he stands.

Edit for example [url= http://www.cornhilldirect.co.uk/homeinsurance/conditionsofquote.html ]Cornhill Insurance[/url]:

I/We have never been convicted of any criminal offence, other than motoring convictions, or received a Police caution in the last 5 years (which is not spent) or have any prosecutions pending.

Dwarf I got a caution for thumping someone 😳 got into the US no problem last year.

S'ok Pigface, no desire to visit the US again - don't think i'm violent enough for them!

Feel for you. I live in Leigh Park and seem to ahve some scroats move in on my street. Hope you don't get too much grief from now on.

Cautions
Cautions, reprimands and final warnings are not criminal convictions and so are not dealt with by the Act. So if people with cautions, reprimands or final warnings only are asked whether they have any 'criminal convictions' they can answer 'no'. Sometimes people are asked if they have a 'criminal record'. This is a less precise term, but it is usually understood to mean convictions. So people who are asked if they have a 'criminal record' may also answer 'no' if they have no convictions.

However, people who are specifically asked if they have cautions, reprimands or final warnings should disclose them until they are deleted from police records. Records of cautions should be deleted after five years if there are no convictions on the record. (In practice, some police forces may retain records of cautions for much longer than this or indefinitely.)