[Closed] Interesting critique of paleo-diet

Pah...facts...you can prove anything with facts

and people reckon the bike industry invents shite to fill a gap that doesn't exist.....

I like that.

Yup, very interesting... Thanks for that!

Thanks for posting that

Glad you enjoyed.

I only got about four minutes into this before abandoning it - sorry, but she's an idiot and her critique doesn't stand up to any scrutiny at all. Shame that these TedX events are dragging down the value of the Ted brand.

I only got about four minutes into this before abandoning it - sorry, but she's an idiot and her critique doesn't stand up to any scrutiny at all.

Go on then, why is she an 'idiot'?

She's an idiot? I thought she was on the money.

To be fair, she mostly criticised the paeleo style diet books and commercial offerings, rather than the principle. She makes good points, one of which is that humans evolved to be flexible and eat a wide variety of foods. Which was my point.

Her evidence for legumes and grains being eaten in paeleolithic times was compelling I thought.

3 minutes in and I have a couple of issues, the Paleo diet is not all lots of red meat as she states nor is it mainly a meat based diet, again as she says, the protein comes from meat and fish sources, usually lean white meat and oily fish, so I agree with reluctantlondoner

Christina Warriner (US | Switzerland) — Archaeogeneticist
American archaeogeneticist studying the plaque on mummies’ teeth to determine how the human species evolved, including diet, diseases, environmental stressors and more.

From the TED 2012 Fellows page.

Clearly dragging down the TED brand...

EDIT: PhD from Harvard too. Clearly an idiot.

the Paleo diet is not all lots of red meat as she states

Well the thing is that there's no one official paeleo diet. She's talking about the stuff that is marketed and advertised in the USA, land of bonkers marketing.

We have probably never seen any of that stuff here. Unless you read Men's Health or something, or watch informercials.

I think everybody's right 😀
The lady in the video is correct in what she is saying, but no-one I know who eats "paleo" [i]actually[/i] eats like that so essentially it's a straw man argument.

Yes (watching the video as I type), she's essentially saying that what people market as "the paleo diet" isn't really what people ate in paleo times. She's not really saying whether the diet is good or bad.

Her three key points at the end:

- Dietary diversity is key
- eat fresh foods where possible
- eat whole (rather than processed) foods

She also showed that modern foods have been changed by breeding from what our distant ancestors may have eaten. Carrots and domesticated cattle being one example. (Does anyone fancy riding through a field full of Aurochs?) Apples and maize show the same sorts of changes. It's not the same food.

You should eat the pie-leo diet.
A wide variety of whole foods, in pie.

[url= http://robbwolf.com/2013/04/04/debunking-paleo-diet-wolfs-eye-view/ ]This is a good counter review of the piece by Robb Wolf[/url]

Mr Wolf is someone who is very pro Paleo (whatever that means) and so the above provides a bit of balance.

From what I can see Cristina Warinner seems to be taking the simplified Mens Health version of evolutionary nutrition/paleo diet and making a few crowd pleasing assumtions and generalisations.

There is no one Paleo Diet. Inuits and Kalahari Bushmen will have eaten very different things for example. It's more about using the clues we gain from understanding the foods we've evolved to eat and using this information to provide answers to the dietry questions we have now.

There is no one size fits all and the experts in this area have always understood this. She's made her assumptions about what a "Paleo diet" is and is basing her argument on this. It's complicated, it's different for everyone, it's fascinating. It's also a shame because she is a bright well educated person who potentially has a lot to offer and plays the PR game well. Just one with an agenda.

There is no one Paleo Diet. Inuits and Kalahari Bushmen will have eaten very different things for example. It's more about using the clues we gain from understanding the foods we've evolved to eat and using this information to provide answers to the dietry questions we have now.

That was one of the points she was making in her video....

Just one with an agenda.

Seems to be her agenda is to educate the masses as to what the best scientific evidence is for what people ate in the Paleo period.

IMHO - Processed, starchy, high GI carbs are not good.
Sugar, bread, pasta, chocolate, etc all have a very similar effect on your body.
I cut them out 12mths ago and have never felt better. Sleep better and need less of it, old aches and pains gone,snoring stopped and indigestion gone.
Call it what you like, Atkins, Paleo, Low Carb, Low GI, iDiet, it works for me and I would recommend it to anyone.

There is no one Paleo Diet. Inuits and Kalahari Bushmen will have eaten very different things for example. It's more about using the clues we gain from understanding the foods we've evolved to eat and using this information to provide answers to the dietry questions we have now.

That's exactly what she's saying. And looking for clues in how we used to eat is her job. The whole idea of paeleo diet comes from the work of people like her.

She's dismissing the fad versions of the diets, and she makes that pretty clear.

Just one with an agenda.

I thought her agenda was to educate people against hype. Which seems to be your agenda too.

I do wonder one thing though. We invented agriculture to make lots of food and free up some people to do other stuff like art, inventing things, science etc. If the world stopped eating staple grains, would we be able to feed everyone?

it works for me and I would recommend it to anyone.

This is kinda the problem.
Assuming what works well for you, works well for other people.
So for instance, I like drinking milk, it's great stuff full of protein and calcium, but I can't recommend it to everyone because plenty of people aren't evolved to drink it.

Anyway, I've just ordered a copy of this -

[url] http://www.salon.com/2013/03/10/paleofantasy_stone_age_delusions/ [/url]

I eat a balanced and varied diet including beer wine and stuff.

I'm not a fat ******

Therefore my diet works

I'm sorry, you may have misunderstood my point, I'll try and be a bit clearer.

My point is that yes, exactly, people had a varied diet then and that a varied diet now is also a good idea. Experts in Paleo also believe and preach this. What she seems to be doing is taking a simplified view, not supported by people who have done a lot of good work in the area, as the thing to rail against.

Her agenda is to educate the people against the hype. The experts in Paleo also educate people against the hype. What would be good is to hear her educated and informed opinion on what the Paleo experts say and NOT the hype.

edit: [url= http://www.marksdailyapple.com/is-it-all-just-a-paleofantasy/#axzz2Pa6zQ91s ]On Paleofantasy this is worth a read[/url] The line that sums it up for me is: Paleofantasy shouldn’t have been a book in 2013, it should have been a blog post in 2010

If the world stopped eating staple grains, would we be able to feed everyone?

No. In fact the invention of dwarf wheat by [url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_Borlaug ]Norman Borlaug[/url] has quite probably saved more lives than anything but antibiotics, for which he won the nobel prize. Just a shame that gluten isn't great for one.

it works for me and I would recommend it to anyone.
This is kinda the problem.
Assuming what works well for you, works well for other people.

I would stand by that. Large quantities of carbohydrate are simply not required in your diet. They do not offer any specific nutrition.
Besides, reducing carbs for 3 or 4 weeks would not do anyone any real harm and if they didn't feel any benefit then they could revert to their previous diet.
I noticed major benefits within 2 weeks.

But her talk was specifically about hyped up fad paleo diet publications - she says that at the beginning.

I don't think it was supposed to be an in-depth lecture about physiology. It was short, light, and contained some interesting background about actual diet from the paleolithic (the stuff about grains and legumes was interesting).

Still thumbs up from me 🙂

Call it what you like, Atkins, Paleo, Low Carb, Low GI, iDiet, it works for me and I would recommend it to anyone.

Don't take this the wrong way, but some people would recommend leaches as a cure for all your ailments...

If I was going to take diet advice I'd take it from someone who'd done some work with a slightly larger sample group than one.....

If I was going to take diet advice I'd take it from someone who'd done some work with a slightly larger sample group than one.....

[url= http://www.amazon.co.uk/Diet-Delusion-Gary-Taubes/dp/0091924286 ]The Diet Delusion[/url]

[url= http://www.amazon.co.uk/Wheat-Belly-Davis-William-MD/dp/1609611543/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1365159289&sr=1-1&keywords=wheat+belly ]Wheat Belly[/url]

Some recommended reading for you.

hmanchester - Member

From what I can see Cristina Warinner seems to be taking the simplified Mens Health version of evolutionary nutrition/paleo diet and making a few crowd pleasing assumtions and generalisations.

Of course it is, it is a TED talk. It looks like she does some pretty complex work examining what our ancient ancestors ate using plague. But that doesn't make a very interesting talk, so the pale-diet thing is a hook to help build a narrative lay people can understand.

Wouldn't call myself paleo, but I do for the most part avoid grains, refined sugar and legumes, due to stomach issues. I know some people who are strict paleo, which is fine, if you can be that controlled about your diet, and have the time to source and prepare all the food exactly to those specifications. I don't think it's an unhealthy diet, quite the opposite, and it doesn't have to be low-carb either.

I think "paleo" is a bit of a misnomer really. It's a shame people have got so hung up about what cavemen ate or didn't eat instead of concentrating on the issues of what makes modern bodies healthy or unhealthy.

Perhaps this thread should have been more accurately titled:
[i]Interesting critique of [b]marketing the[/b] paleo-diet[/i]

[i]It's also a [s]shame[/s] pity because she [s]is[/s] appears to be a bright, well educated, person who potentially has a lot to offer [s]and[/s] so long as she resists the urge to play the PR game well.
[/i]

This ^^

Generally, there was a lot wrong with the presentation. If I get time I may pull it apart. The presenter has conveniently over looked chunks of important stuff to instead offer a one sided opinion. Especially with regard to us not having evolved to eat meat. She talked about teeth, but didn't mention the B vitamins we require and only get from meat.....

leading on from that.
[i]What would be good is to hear her educated and informed opinion on what the Paleo experts say and NOT the hype.
[/i]
Me too, I'd like to see the presenter have a chat with Loren Cordain.

Basicallly, the presenter has [i]some[/i] points, esp wrt to processed foods, but we already [i]know[/i] that message and how man has husbanded natrual foods almost to the point where they are unrecognizable in comparison to their wild ancestors.

A very important point, which I don't believe I have seen (apologies if I've missed this). Is that the emphasis really should be.
Paleo ?, yes, but in a modern day context. This is another area the presenter seems to have over looked, imo.

Have a good weekend, y'all.
🙂

Especially with regard to us not having evolved to eat meat.

She said we weren't evolved to be mainly carnivorous - not quite the same thing.

[i]She said we weren't evolved to be mainly carnivorous[/i]

I disagree, the presenter made specific reference to teeth and what we don't have, compared to Lions. Then the presenter conceeded that there are groups of people who subsist on a high meat content diet.
Furthermore, digestion of a food type requires more than the evolution of just teeth to successfully assimilate food and the nutrients therein.
Of course, you know this, but the presenter coveniently over looked this in her presentation.
As I wrote above, her presentation was selective, which is why others have even gone so far as to suggest that the presenter may have had an [i]agenda[/i]. Of course, there was at least one agenda, which was to critique the marketing of the paleolithic diet.

EDIT:
And before you start banging on, again, about flexibilty in our diets.
I don't think anyone is disputing that Humans have a certain flexibility. However, that flexibility doesn't extend to cheesecake and cookies. And depending on how flexible one has to be on their diet, has results on there general state of homeostasis.

However, that flexibility doesn't extend to cheesecake and cookies.

[b]Burn him!![/b]

However, that flexibility doesn't extend to cheesecake and cookies.

Actually, I think it does. If for example we are lost in the desert for two weeks with nothing but a lorry load of cheesecake, we'll survive.

Or, to put it another way, a cheesecake every so often won't hurt us in the slightest. However give one chocolate bar to a dog and it can be very poorly.

As I agree with Molgrips, I'll just post to show I'm lurking. TSY is missed.

What does Rachel think?

I keep hearing all this stuff from people who have cut out bread, chocolate wine etc and felt better and better. Thing is I eat loads of bread, way too much chocolote and wash it all down with an above average (ref:STW) amount of wine... and I feel absolutely fine so what would happen if I cut it all out? Will I just be wondering around in some sort of utopian high or is that waht religion is for?

I tried an overly restrictive version of the paleo-diet cutting out bread and chocolate (I worked in a chocolate factory at the time), and felt worse and worse and worse and started eating bread and chocolate again.

From what I can gather, bread affects different people in different ways. Some are completely intolerant, some have niggling health issues that are not obviously bread related, and some have no ill effects. I don't have any ill effects, so when I find I am missing some carbs I eat brown bread in small quantities.

Unlike Edukator seems to have done, I don't bin the entire concept as soon as I have problems. When doing the riding I choose to do, I seem to require more carbs than can be had without something starchy, so I introduce a little more when I'm doing lots of training. However I still cook slow carb meals, which include legumes though.

I haven't binned it, Molgrips, there are still elements of the paleo-diet in my diet. I agree with what you say about the video, the diet of our ancestors was probably more varied than in fundamentalist paleo-diets. The idea is good if not taken to extremes such as cutting out bread.

I liked it.

Why "liked" not "like"? That suggests you didn't like it enough to pursue it.

I found it incompatible with prolonged exercise and hampered recovery after exercise so added "banned" processed carbs. I almost immediately gave up on the idea that "new" fruits and vegetables should be excluded. Kiwis and potatoes are fine in my version of the paleo-diet.

I don't think cutting out bread is particularly extreme. It's a lot of bulk and not that much nutrition. If you replce it with vegetables you start eating a hell of a lot more nutrients.

I found it incompatible with prolonged exercise and hampered recovery after exercise so added "banned" processed carbs.

That's my experience of the iDiet too - which is broadly similar to paleo. Except I only add measured amounts of banned carbs and only at certain times - definitely not breakfast for instance.

I don't have potatoes though. They are pretty high GI.

I was force fed potatoes during my childhood and didn't touch them from the age of 18 until my late 20s. baked in their skins they now add a bit of variety once a week at most.

I don't miss potatoes, rice or pasta much. Bread and sugar are the ones I miss.