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Where do I start anyone know ?
Vans currently in France. It needs to be in the UK. It's on french plates with french paperwork.
Do I insure it in France or in the UK as a British citizen ?
It's currently insured for the year but the policy holder is sadly deceased.
You will have to complete the importation process whith HMRC and pay the relevant duties / VAT
https://www.gov.uk/importing-vehicles-into-the-
Does it change anything it was driven to France from the UK on UK plates pre Brexit or is this another Brexit shit show?
Or also does it change anything if I brought it back to the UK with it's payload and disposed of it ?
Long story short - my dad passed away unexpectedly and I need to relocate my mother fairly quickly to the UK with her stuff ....the van seems like the obvious choice.
The good news is that the insurance doesn't stop with the death of the policy holder and anyone can drive the vehicle. You have to tell them about the death. They can cancel in which case they send you a letter and the insurance stops 10 days later. If you provide enough proof that you've inherited the vehicle you can continue the insurance simply changing the name on the contract - or opt for a new contract. Phone the company insuring it at present and ask for advice, inform them by e-mail of the death in any case. There"s a good chance you'll keep most or all of th ebonus if you manage to avoid cancelling.
French insurance covers any driver just about anywhere, there's a long list of countires - you just have a higher excess for some categories of drivers and places. You'll have to declare where the vehicle is garaged, if it leaves that place for more than 3 months (or whatever the policy states) then you have to inform them.
It won't much matter to them what nationality you are though you'll need a French adresse.
Insurance isn't much hassle but importing the vehicle may be, you need to go through the process in the right order obtaining the right bits of paper at the right time, there must be info online.
A random example from a random insurer, French insuraers generally have loads of info online:
https://www.ornikar.com/assurance-auto/administratif/resiliation/assurance-deces
You could check on the DVLA tax and MOT system to see if it is still shown on the system in which case it my be possible to just MOT and tax it back onto the system but that won’t help you in the short term where it may well be easier to just tax it as a foreign car and regularise it when you have a bit of time on your hands.
If the DVLA no longer show it on their system you’re back to having to register it. You shouldn’t sell a car on foreign plates in the UK unless you have paid HMRC. If your mother wants to keep the vehicle she can probably get Transfer of Residence relief so no taxes would be due (if indeed any re if it’s already been a UK registered vehicle).
Technically a UK resident can’t drive a foreign registered vehicle unless they are in the process of importing and registering it in the UK - whether any one would stop you is another question.
Sorry for your loss.
That's sounds hopeful (edukators post) If you just want to drive it home then scrap it, that might be tricky without a V5. You'll need one of those old school dodgy scrapyards that don't ask many questions, and due to the clamp down on metal theft there's not many of them about these days.
In answer to the new questions - as far as the French authorities are concerned it's French registered so its origin doesn't matter.
If it's disposed of in the UK just get a certificate of destruction from the breaker to show when you declare its destruction, and keep the ferry ticket as proof that you were just on holiday in the UK when it broke down and had to be taken to the breakers as beyond the economic cost of repair. However if you dispose of it by selling it in the UK you'll have opened a horrible can of worms if you don't do it properly.
With the new info my suggestion is inform the insurance company of the death, load it up and drive it back in the time they have to give you if they cancel, if they do.
I don't see why a UK scrapyard wouldn't accept a French carte grise, tthew.
No problem with using foreign registered and insured cars in the UK for short periods:
https://www.gov.uk/importing-vehicles-into-the-uk/temporary-imports
With the new info my suggestion is inform the insurance company of the death, load it up and drive it back in the time they have to give you if they cancel
Which is fine unless you get stopped by Customs entering the UK and then not following any UK importation laws relating to the vehicle and any personal effects in it may make things tedious .
Temporary Importation relief for cars doesn’t apply for UK residents.
Reading that Gov.uk thing, you've got one headache I haven't, you're UK resident, but presumable your mother isn't or can claim not to be as she has a French adresse.
There are two things here - the ability to legally drive it which appears to te the case. And the ability to temporarily import it which you aren't but your mother might be.
Edit: see Kilo above too.
Ok useful info that would be a bonus.
Will give them a bell after I've spoke with the estate agent and the IFA and the mayorie tomorrow.
The " international" funeral directors are having. A bank holiday it seems.
It’s not that complicated a process but it can get complicated if you don’t follow the processes and just wing it. If you import the vehicle you have to declare it. If your mother is going to keep it it will probably just be an administrative exercise. If you are going to keep it or scrap it then there may be some VAT due but if it’s already been a UK vehicle, and you can show this, again, it’s probably just an administrative exercise. In theory you can drive it into the UK and:
If you’re bringing the vehicle in yourself, you must contact HMRC’s CARS team and tell them if:
- you recently bought the vehicle outside the UK
- you have moved to the UK and brought your vehicle with you
- you’re bringing a vehicle back to the UK that you previously owned here
- you have inherited the vehicle from someone living outside the UK
You must do this within 14 days of bringing the vehicle in.
If you have valid insurance and some paperwork backing this up then nobody at the port should be that bothered and then you have 14 days to sort it out.
If you are bringing your mother’s personal effects look at https://www.gov.uk/moving-to-uk again it should be fairly painless but it’s much easier if you go in with paperwork already prepared.
Drive it and your mum on french plates/insurance to the UK. Do whatever you need to. Where in the UK are you heading BTW?
Drive it back to Calais on French plates / Insurance and dispose of it. Walk / cycle back onto the ferry and into the UK.
More faff but simpler?
I have a (southern) Irish man who could drive it home if that makes life easier.
Unfortunately my mum's new life will be in the back of it.
Cheers kilo very helpful my head's been lost in Google with trying to get my dad home and also the partially completed house sale to continue.....
French forced heirship is a headache.
I’m fairly certain you can’t drive a vehicle with a foreign plate legally in the UK if you are a UK resident.
Heading to Aberdeen. Couldn't be any further from the ferry really
Just a thought, I've just checked both the carte grise and insurance policy are in our joint names, nothing changes if one of us checks out first and junior can use our cars where and whenever he needs with no need to inform the insurance while one of us is still around.
All the best with it all, I had the same last year, they'd been together 70 odd years.
Well I found the original plates and headlights in. The workshop today while clearing it. Running that plate throught the MOT checker shows it last MOT in 2019 but it's on the system at least as the right vehicle
I have the original bill of sale and the ferry tickets for the original.move
Coincidentally I’m planning to move some stuff back from a holiday home in France. Looking at that website I think I’ll just set fire to the lot.
Assuming your Mother is a French resident is the registered owner of the vehicle and will be travelling with you that may make a difference so that may be an angle worth checking.
I took a UK vehicle back to the UK overdue for an MOT and just pre-booked an MOT near my UK destination for the day I got off the ferry. The question is what is the status of the vehicle with Swansea? It might still be on the MOT register but I bet it's shown as exported to France with DVLA and as such putting the old plates on would be naughtier than driving it on French plates as you'd be uninsured and breaking a few laws. I wouldn't do it.
The papers you've got are really helpful in proving it's origin to HRMC, contact them as Kilo suggests . Given all the documentation you've got and the circumstances I'd look into reregistering it properly in the UK - it'll be hassle but I doubt it will cost much. That would allow you to drive it back on French Insurance and plates and then reregister it in the UK.
Mother is on a carte de sejour residence
Mother doesn't drive. Through choice. Has driven in a decade/hasn't driven a manual in 25 years....despite holding a UK PCV licence.
The deceased was the sole owner of the car.
I have a month to sort it. Will speak with DVLA.
Nothing definitive to add other than commiserations on the loss of your father and your mum's relocation. That won't be easy for her I imagine.
What size van? Sticking it on a trailer and towing it home is the easiest from a legal POV although probably not the most practical.
Got a couple of options on the table now.
I have a friend of dad's here with a carte de sejour who is willing to drive ifrom here nto the UK. I can have it recovered from the ferry port by an old friend of my dad's with a national vehicle transport recovery business with the ability to move vans.
We are aware of the itemisation of the load and tax implications and we do have a network of folks around here doing similar moves just now so are taking advice from those on the ground on that one.
But it's not as grim as was last night.
I’m fairly certain you can’t drive a vehicle with a foreign plate legally in the UK if you are a UK resident.
Ha! Tell that to a friend of mine who lived in France and the U.K., she bought and sold antiques in both countries, then bought a 17th century farmhouse in the Cotswolds, near Castle Combe and turned it into a hotel, restaurant and tea rooms, and was driving her French registered Renault Twingo on French plates over here for some years after selling up everything in France. She got rid of the Twingo ages ago, but she’s still running the hotel and restaurant.
was driving her French registered Renault Twingo on French plates over here for some years after selling up everything in France.
There is a difference between 'illegal' and 'actually enforced'. There is a parent at my kids' school who drives around on Italian plates and has done for several years, and IIRC the rules also apply to NI-registered cars moved to GB.
I've also learned thanks to this-thread-related Googling that the dickheads with Dubai plates and loud exhausts that you see in Manchester City Centre should really have temporary Q-plates as the Arabic ones aren't ANPR compatible.
I've also learned thanks to this-thread-related Googling that the dickheads with Dubai plates and loud exhausts that you see in Manchester City Centre should really have temporary Q-plates as the Arabic ones aren't ANPR compatible.
An austerity bonus, 30+ years ago my job was dealing with vehicle importation irregularities and traffic plod would regularly detain anything they thought was non-compliant and pass it on to me, including lots of stuff that should have been on q plates. Here we are years of cuts later with a large amount of lawlessness on our roads
An austerity bonus, 30+ years ago my job was dealing with vehicle importation irregularities and traffic plod would regularly detain anything they thought was non-compliant and pass it on to me, including lots of stuff that should have been on q plates. Here we are years of cuts later with a large amount of lawlessness on our roads
Everything is an austerity bonus. Was this in GM or elsewhere?
Everything is an austerity bonus. Was this in GM or elsewhere?
London. The second car I drove after passing my driving test was a lhd Porsche 928 on Belgian plates, that the owner had “forgotten” to declare and then been stopped and seized by 5-0. Happy days 🙂
Remember that French insurance goes on the vehicle, not the driver, so anyone can drive that vehicle if they have a licence
Useful site aimed at ex-pats - https://www.expatica.com/fr/finance/insurance/car-insurance-in-france-184625/
The correct answer scud.
I contacted dad's insurance. On production of the death certificate I was issued with a "green card" providing me with 14 days third party insurance explicitly for the purposes of moving the van to its new location. "Insert my address" due to the death of the owner.
Van is now in Aberdeen with all mums stuff after a 2 days 1200 mile drive. - Arnac Pompadour to saint Omer on 3/4 tank of fuel then saint Omer to Aberdeen via Dunkirk/Dover on one tank of fuel no less.
Insured on its UK plates for the princely sum of 330 quid. ,MOT is booked for next week against its UK plates v62 sent in for a v5 in my name.
Hopefully in a couple weeks it'll be a UK registered vehicle and I can move it to the storage location till mum gets her self a house.