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The only reason I concede the rented sector should be mandated is because there is currently no market. The shortage of housing means its impossible for a lot of people to pick and choose if they rent a place that they feel is up to a reasonable standard. If there was then the people who were offering a better product would get the business. Sadly that's not the case, though I suspect insulation is probably down the list of improvements most tenants would ask their landlord to carry out in most cases.
However if its about mandating everyone has to insulate their home at their cost then best not mandate it in an election year 🙂
Very eloquently put.
Firstly, The Govt has a moral responsibility to do this. The change needs to happen now but the negative consequences of no action are future. The negative consequences of no action are catastrophic – it’s the government’s job to protect us against that whatever we think.
I would argue its the job of the government to do the will of the people who elected them. However it is their job to provide the people with the information for the people to decide and inform of the consequences if their advice is ignored.
I would argue its the job of the government to do the will of the people who elected them.
I don't think this is accurate - the government needs to do what is in the interests of the entire country (not just those who voted for them), because the people are not suffuciently well informed on most techical aspects of running a country - nor should they be. I don't go to a doctor to just get them to prescribe the drugs I think I want.
However it is their job to provide the people with the information for the people to decide and inform of the consequences if their advice is ignored.
Too easily hijacked and once hijacked can be justified as 'the will of the people'. Not just Brexit, this has been done many times before.
I would argue that the governments job is to do what is best for the country, looking beyond the next election.
Edit: that molgrips is on to something, you know…
molgrips & tomhoward +1
the government are elected based on who we trust to run the country and make these decisions for the next 5 years. if we want to individually have a say on each decision we need to change the electoral system so its more like Switzerland with dozens of mini referenda. The will of the people can be expressed afterwards by removing from office a government that didn't fulfil expectations; virtually any decision a previous government has taken can be reversed so its hardly the end of the world if a government take action the people don't like whilst it could, almost literally, be the end of the world if a government take no action because they aren't sure people want them to.
but it still might be the best of whole long list of poor options.
Nope, their approach is so bad that they have managed to take a cause the majority of people probably agree with, and from that starting point somehow managed to turn the vast majority of the public massively against them
As has been said already the government won’t concede to their demands as the public is not on their side. All they are doing is turning people against their cause and probably getting new laws passed that will hinder the rights of future protesters. They are doing more harm than good.
Given where the overwhelming consensus is on climate change I think it is the moral duty of political parties to stand on a platform of climate action.
There are lots of ways of doing that whether levering the private sector through tax breaks and penalties, regulations etc or directly through state investment - or ideally a combination of both. Those are the choices that should be presented to the electorate
To deny climate change or propose woefully insufficient action purely because it would play well with sufficient of the electorate (and with our crappy first past the post system could be a minority) is an immoral position for a mainstream political party
TBH - what we are missing in politics is leadership, there should be a collective will to drive opinion that action is needed on climate change
Perfectly stated @olddog.
Problem also is that without the strong will and consensus of the electorate in the same direction then we simply have a case of humanity being a failure at every level.
olddog gets my vote!
Nope, their approach is so bad that they have managed to take a cause the majority of people probably agree with, and from that starting point somehow managed to turn the vast majority of the public massively against them
I'm on holiday this week and thus sworn off arguing with people on social media, but this needs to be called out for the apologist bollocks that it is.
Given where the overwhelming consensus is on climate change I think it is the moral duty of political parties to stand on a platform of climate action.
Idealistic at best, silly at worst.
The more you want the govt to do this or that, the more you give them the power and one day they will come back to bite you or your next generation(s).
Do you want to turn UK into China? Do you know how it is like living in 1984 (the book)?
People can protest as that's a way of life in UK. Protest at will and have a good laugh whatever but others should also be able to protest against the protesters too.
p/s: I just can't stop laughing every time I imagine that bloke with his face glued to the tarmac. I kept imagining a dog suddenly poo in front of his face while he is glued to the tarmac. I nearly chocked myself drinking coffee while imagining this in the office. LOL!
the will of the people
The government needs to “firm up” the commitments it made when it was elected, and since. If it is to meet the targets it has set itself, and already promised “the people” of the UK and other countries it is going to meet, then it needs multiple new policies to move the UK to using less carbon… and it can’t ignore domestic heating. It especially can’t ignore the updating of social housing stock. Making sure this happens is not your job, or my job, it is the government’s job.
The more you want the govt to do this or that, the more you give them the power and one day they will come back to bite you or your next generation(s).
The more you want the govt to do this or that, the more you give them the power and one day they will come back to bite you or your next generation(s).
What on earth are you on about?
What on earth are you on about?
Keep forcing the agenda on the govt and in turn the govt use that to justify forcing on others ... what if the agenda is from minority views only?
In China that's how agenda is forced on the people based on minority view (politburo) and justified.
If you wish to change things then vote for it. No need to go around preventing others from earning a living. Not everyone is a wealthy retired person that can afford their spare time forcing agendas on others.
Pretty sure that was not the point you were making - but anyway more people voted for parties with actual climate polices, then the current government.
Pretty sure that was not the point you were making – but anyway more people voted for progressive parties with actual climate polices, then the current government.
Convince the people rather than making life difficult for them.
Go protest at the embassies of those nations where virgin forest is cut down. They have a better chance of reducing global warming whatever with the forest then the protesters current puny efforts.
As said somewhere ... "Closed door and beat own children" (Chinese proverb). i.e. you punish your own people because you can't convince others to change.
P/s: 1984 is coming ...
I noticed in a recent interview the representative of IB was so passionate about insulating homes he hadn't even bothered to make the changes he is protesting for to his own home! Surely for some one with this much passion for something would have at least put their money where there mouth is or does he just expect someone else to pay for it?
Its hard to take them seriously when they wont even make the changes they want mandated for everyone themselves.
Did they own the building? How long had they lived there? Which changes do you mean?
He gives a brilliant interview.
Well worth watching.
That’s not an interview, it’s a clip from one. Is the whole interview posted anywhere?
I’m burning gas in my boiler right now. I have a diesel car parked outside. I still support the government having plans to move us away from burning gas and diesel. I’d support them speeding up those plans. Hypocrite?
With reference to the rough cost figures up there
Let's not forget the govt just spent (wasted?) 37 billion on track and trace.....maybe ask for some of that back?
That’s not an interview, it’s a clip from one. Is the whole interview posted anywhere?
I'm not sure if he does whole interviews. If you do a search you'll find another interview with him in the GMB studio where he suddenly gets up and walks away.
Making friends and influencing people doesn't seem to be his priority.
Presumably he doesn't think he needs that to secure his objectives.
Come on Earnie, you know how a clip tells a very selected story. Did he go onto say why the government needs to act, rather than leaving it to individuals to do so out of the goodness of their little hearts? Did he point out the catastrophic effects of climate change if we don’t act collectively, now? Any half decent media training would teach you to avoid supplying the likes of TalkRadio with these lovely little viral clips. He’s clearly useless at media interviews. Where’s a cuddly David Attenborough when you need one…?
I suspect insulation is probably down the list of improvements most tenants would ask their landlord to carry out in most cases
I suspect you're talking a load of shite about something you have very little understanding of and have been all day. Just a suspicion mind.
As for the apologist bollocks about this harming future protests, **** off and take on the real villains (the government) that make those anti-protest laws the reality. This is just an excuse, nothing more. Tories love a good anti-assembly law eh?
Where’s a cuddly David Attenborough when you need one…?
Probably travelling round the world making films about how bad climate change is and that we shouldn’t travel as much whilst not seeing the irony of his own actions
Probably travelling round the world making films about how bad climate change is and that we shouldn’t travel as much whilst not seeing the irony of his own actions
Yeah, David Attenborough's DEFINITELY the problem (I mean, he doesn't travel for his documentaries any more, but yeah, HE'S the problem).
Come on Earnie, you know how a clip tells a very selected story.
I don't have a monopoly over internet access. You find a clip that you like and post on here.
And yeah the point of the clip was to show him calling himself a hypocrite and saying that he doesn't care about insulation, what's wrong with that? Do you think the confession was beaten out of him?
I don't know why you always seem to struggle spelling the name Ernie btw, it's quite a common name. It would make sense if it could be interpreted as an insult.
Not meant as an insult, sorry, just seem to always trip over it. I’ll try harder not to.
Do you think the confession was beaten out of him?
I doubt it. Was he just saying what he knew they were going to say, to stop them going down that route, so he could then get on with trying to explain what action is needed quickly, and why that action needs to come from the government? I was genuinely asking if you knew where the full interview could be seen as you posted the “news” item built almost entirely around that little out of context clip.
I’m on holiday this week and thus sworn off arguing with people on social media, but this needs to be called out for the apologist bollocks that it is.
How very convenient… 😏
You would honestly try to argue that the public are on their side?
You would honestly try to argue that the public are on their side?
Who ****ing cares? It's not the public that makes laws it's the government. Sometimes governments do things which the public aren't happy about, sometimes as a force for good (legislating for minimum standards of insulation for example) and sometimes as a force for bad (banning legitimate avenues of protest).
Those that excuse the government banning legitimate protest are nothing more than apologists throwing rights out with the bath water. The problem isn't people giving the government their excuse, the problem is people allowing them to legislate against those people.
First they came...
and it became clear quite quickly that the right to protest is all but gone here
banning legitimate protest
This is rubbish though, isn’t it?
There’s protests all the time in London and other places. Thousands, indeed tens of thousands on the street protesting all sorts of things
The thing is that peaceful protest doesn’t(and never has) mean a right to break the law by obstructing the highway, causing a public nuisance, threatening people or smashing things up.
Why are they "crusties"? Is desperately trying to halt the tide of inevitable loss of quality of life of billions of people crusty? Is that the most discriptive term you can manage?
This is rubbish though, isn’t it?
Have you seen the proposed law? Do you think leaving the definition of "serious disruption" to the home secretary bearing in mind either only raging authoritarians get that job or they get reprogrammed on day one is a good idea?
Thousands, indeed tens of thousands on the street protesting all sorts of things
Which are generally ignored. Hence why if you want to get noticed and tend towards all good publicity is good publicity then more aggressive action tends to be the only way.
I mean, he doesn’t travel for his documentaries any more, but yeah, HE’S the problem
i stand corrected. It’s just the film crew, directors, researchers and fixers who do all the travelling to fragile environments for weeks at a time for 5 minutes of tv
My point is that it is always those wanting change want everyone else to change but not them
Who **** cares? It’s not the public that makes laws it’s the government. Sometimes governments do things which the public aren’t happy about, sometimes as a force for good (legislating for minimum standards of insulation for example) and sometimes as a force for bad (banning legitimate avenues of protest).
You don’t think that perhaps just maybe having the public on their side would make them a little harder to ignore?
Fact is this government won’t do anything for the greater good..and that’s even more true when they don’t have to go against popular opinion
Have you seen the proposed law?
I haven't seen details but the one thing above all others that concerns me most about Boris Johnson, and it concerns deeply, is his level of commitment to democracy and human rights. I think in that respect he differs very little, if at all, from the likes of Thatcher and Tebbit.
What makes my concern even more acute is that I have zero faith in the current leader of the Labour Party, someone whom I consider incapable, or more likely unwilling, to offer any effective opposition.
Highly organised, effective, and vocal opposition, would seriously limit Johnson's ability to encroach on our freedoms and rights, however without it he is obviously given a carte blanche.
Keir Starmer is simply unwilling to take a stance which would put him at loggerheads with the Daily Mail, the Sun, and other hard-right newspapers. The man is even more spineless than Jeremy Corbyn.
As this example so tragically illustrates :
Which are generally ignored. Hence why if you want to get noticed and tend towards all good publicity is good publicity then more aggressive action tends to be the only way.
Except, again it’s simply not true is it?
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2011/feb/17/forest-sell-off-victory
Government policy changed on the back of entirely non-violent, public campaigns which didn’t need to smash things up, or obstruct anyones jobs & daily lives.
You've kinda answered your own question there. Remember the last time the public marched en masse against the government? That worked well didn't it. Still needed up in Iraq because we had a narcissistic fud that knew better in charge.
I haven’t seen details but the one thing above all others that concerns me most about Boris Johnson, and it concerns deeply, is his level of commitment to democracy and human rights. I think in that respect he differs very little, if at all, from the likes of Thatcher and Tebbit.
What makes my concern even more acute is that I have zero faith in the current leader of the Labour Party, someone whom I consider incapable, or more likely unwilling, to offer any effective opposition.
Highly organised, effective, and vocal opposition, would seriously limit Johnson’s ability to encroach on our freedoms and rights, however without it he is obviously given a carte blanche.
Keir Starmer is simply unwilling to take a stance which would put him at loggerheads with the Daily Mail, the Sun, and other hard-right newspapers. The man is even more spineless than Jeremy Corbyn.
As this example so tragically illustrates :
Does you political compass point anywhere other than something to blame on Labour? You may have missed it but BJ has a healthy majority, it matters not a bit what Starmer or anyone else thinks because they can do the sum total of **** all to oppose him.
Besides, I thought BJ was a good socialist Tory? Weren't you gushing over how far left of Thatcher he was just a short while ago?
...who do all the travelling to fragile environments for weeks at a time for 5 minutes of tv
5 minutes of tv? That's how you describe some of the most respected TV programmes in the world?
And the TV programmes that David Attenborough narrates are never just about entertainment. They provide an absolutely vital educational role to TV audiences throughout the world.
It is only by overcoming ignorance and educating people that the determination to stop trashing our planet will come about.
.
It is only by overcoming ignorance and educating people that the determination to stop trashing our planet will come about.
I don't think any the folks who have it in their power to make the changes we need to make in order to keep our species alive is truly ignorant or needs further education about what we're doing to the climate.
You would honestly try to argue that the public are on their side?
I'm just calling out your apologist bollocks - anything more is just in your head.
What do we want?
Viglantes taking out protestors!
Nope. But if a small group of individuals choose to prevent hundreds, thousands or more from being able to get to work, school, medical appointments etc, then 'democracy' means those protestors need to move aside, and reasonable force is justified in making them do so. I don't condone any violence or abuse against legitimate protestors, or indeed anyone who simply wants to protest an issue, but if the consensus if that these kind of protests just causes unnecessary grief for ordinary people, then those protestors need to listen to the opinions of the majority, and stop being selfish ****s, regardless of their cause.
Those that excuse the government banning legitimate protest are nothing more than apologists throwing rights out with the bath water.
What utter nonsense. For a start, these aren't 'legitimate' protests anyway; preventing people from exercising freedom to go wherever they want/need to, when your real target for attention is the government, is just ****ing stupid. Because it has a massively negative impact on all of society. Indeed, it's ridiculous accusations such as this, which turn me away from the protestors even more. Every day, they are losing mine and the public's support. So time they stood back and thought about what they're doing. Cos it's not working.
*Turns heating up even more. Opens window to get some fresh air*
Every day, they are losing mine and the public’s support.
You speak on behalf of the public? Cool story, bro.
I don’t think any the folks who have it in their power to make the changes we need to make in order to keep our species alive is truly ignorant or needs further education about what we’re doing to the climate.
Yeah I am obviously referring to the BBC and David Attenborough playing a vital role in educating us all - the wider public.
All government ministers ultimately get to their positions through elections. The environment should be an issue at the forefront in elections.
Nor do I believe that governments and ministers fully understand all issues concerning the environment and know exactly what needs to be done, I consider them to be fairly average sort of people without necessarily specific expertise.
The idea that the BBC shouldn't produce the programmes it does which are narratated David Attenborough because they are bad for the environment and is therefore hypocritical, as suggested on the previous page of this thread, is ridiculous.
You speak on behalf of the public?
No, but it's pretty clear the majority of people now oppose the actions of IB, even if they agree with the sentiments. Ignore the majority at your peril...
I consider them to be fairly average sort of people without necessarily specific expertise.
Sure, I think the man on the Clapham omnibus is aware of the damage Co2 is doing to our climate, that's all that really needs to be understood. The politicians also don't need any expertise, they have advisors for that. But only they have the power to decide on and enforce legislation.
and know exactly what needs to be done
There are some fairly obvious steps that could be done straight away that could make massive in-roads into reducing the damage, again you'd have to have lived under a rock not to know this, and even if politicians are just average folk, they know it as well. I don't think anyone has all the answers, sure, but perfect is the enemy of good, we can adjust as we go along, but we have to start.
Some widely admired people who ran unpopular movements:
The Suffragettes - similar tactics to insulate britain plus smashing up places, burning the houses of rich people down and a bombing campaign.
Nelson Mandela wasn't averse to bombing churches and killing children.
Our combined man-made biodiversity crisis (mass extinction event), global heating and trashing of the natural world - upon which our very lives rely - is *more* urgent than votes for girls or black emancipation in South Africa.
Insulate Britain / Extinction Rebellion *know* that they're going to be unpopular with an idiot public who are so poorly educated they can't comprehend the consequences of running our society in the way we do. They're not *trying* to "get the public on board" - any more than the Suffragettes or Mandela did - they're forcing the issue. In time-honoured tradition.
Expect direct action to escalate - we're going to go from peaceful protest - which is what this is - to violent action in the coming years - because governments have failed to do anything meaningful in the last 70 years that we've known about these issues.
On the alleged deaths caused by protestors stopping people getting to hospital:
I went to University in the early 90's, full of idealism to study environmental management - and very quickly learned that governmental action was the only thing that could make meaningful difference - and consequently learned that, at best, they were only interested in greenwashing and can-kicking. The level of actions are *still* hugely inadequate.
A maldivian guy, very intelligent lad, was paid for by his government to come to the UK and attend my course - in the vain hope that he'd become a voice for his people. Their whole country is in the firing line. (Along with the mass movement of people that is going to increase towards the back end of this century - precipitating intensified war).
Why should we in the UK, who were the heartland of the coal-and-fossil-fuel based industrial revolution that was the start of our problems be immune from the death that this crisis is causing around the planet?
Whilst I'm sure anyone involved regrets any horrible outcomes it's very easy to justify continued action along the lines they're taking - and more - because of the urgency of the problem and the devestating consequences that the world is already experiencing.
So stop "shooting the messenger" - and start hammering the government?
Of course, we won't, as a species we're as dumb as a box of frogs. The tories are *increasing* their share of the vote. Labour are just as useless and we won't vote for the "loonies" who will put the environment ahead of our economy.
Just gonna leave this here. Once again the parody/reality line gets thinner.
Sure, I think the man on the Clapham omnibus is aware of the damage Co2 is doing to our climate, that’s all that really needs to be understood.
That's not what the BBC/David Attenborough's TV programmes are simply about.
It was alleged on this thread that the BBC/David Attenborough were being hypocritical for flying across the world making programmes about our fragile planet.
I pointed out that it wasn't simply entertainment but played a vital role in informing people and educating them. It is important to keep driving the point and emphasising how worthwhile the protection of the natural world is.
Feel free to disagree with me but what I am referring to is not simply about CO2 levels and how they should be tackled, as you seem to think.
The idea that the BBC shouldn’t produce the programmes it does which are narratated David Attenborough because they are bad for the environment and is therefore hypocritical, as suggested on the previous page of this thread, is ridiculous.
This.
Calling anyone raising issues around the environment a "hypocrite" is the first line of attack these days. Not, "what they say is happening isn't"... that one has dried up... it's now "we shouldn't listen to what they say we should change as a society, because I have evidence that they use taxis/planes/singleglazing".
these aren’t ‘legitimate’ protests anyway
Ignore the majority at your peril…
Tyranny of the masses.
So stop “shooting the messenger” – and start hammering the government
It's not going to happen, sadly. The negative reporting of these protestors (who are somehow both "crusties" and "rich retired people with too much time on their hands") will just increase. The papers know they have hit a nerve with a majority of readers/clickers, so an every decreasing spiral of vilification will keep going.
It will be interesting to see how COP26 is reported.
Insulate Britain / Extinction Rebellion *know* that they’re going to be unpopular with an idiot public who are so poorly educated they can’t comprehend the consequences of running our society in the way we do.
+1
Ignore the majority at your peril…
I don't think the IB protests are about ignoring the majority, but you open that window a little wider if it's too warm for you with the wood burner going.
Meanwhile, today I learned the word "Medicane".
I pointed out that it wasn’t simply entertainment but played a vital role in informing people and educating them. It is important to keep driving the point and emphasising how worthwhile the protection of the natural world is.
I think they've failed in that regard then. The stupidity of the public understood that the problem was single-use plastic straws and put pressure on suppliers to stop providing plastic straws rather than putting pressure on the waste stream to stop letting plastic straws get in the sea! Low attention span public think they've done their bit by buying a paper cup with a paper straw and using a bag for life when they drive a mile to the shops.
There are some fairly obvious steps that could be done straight away that could make massive in-roads into reducing the damage, again you’d have to have lived under a rock not to know this
Monbiot had this nailed 15 years ago. Many of the things he talks about are already happening such as online food deliveries. Many however are not, or are not happening fast enough. As he says in the book, the only thing we'd really have to change in our lives for which there isn't a viable solution is flying a lot. If anyone has read it yet you really should. Still though the usual suspects on here will dismiss him as a hair-shirted hippy idealist.
https://www.monbiot.com/books/heat/
Is a good read. I’ve not flown for 15 years partly down to him (he wasn’t a lone voice).
Our combined man-made biodiversity crisis (mass extinction event), global heating and trashing of the natural world – upon which our very lives rely – is *more* urgent than votes for girls or black emancipation in South Africa.
Wow. 'Our cause is sooo much more important than your cause and we're soo much more important than you!' Way to go. Because that's going to be a winning strategy...
Insulate Britain / Extinction Rebellion *know* that they’re going to be unpopular with an idiot public who are so poorly educated they can’t comprehend the consequences of running our society in the way we do.
'We're so much more intelligent than you thick plebs so listen to us!'
Another winning strategy. Woohoo!
Expect direct action to escalate – we’re going to go from peaceful protest – which is what this is – to violent action in the coming years
That simply validates violent counter-action. sp; it'll be ok for members of the public to attack IUB protestors then; if I consider that MY need to get to work etc is of greater importance than your protest, then it's fine for me to use force to get you out of my way. You've just validated that.
Tyranny of the masses.
So you're against democracy? Ok then. Expect kickback from 'pro-democracy' protestors...
Thanks to all those who have demonstrated so perfectly here, the sheer brilliance of the tactics of IB/XR in achieving necessary change in society. It's so good for us to have you help enlighten us all, and lead us out of the darkness...
*Lights bonfire. Throws some XR placards on for fuel*
So you’re against democracy?
No, I'm against protestors being attacked with the excuse that "the majority" don't like their methods and/or cause.
It seems that IB have finally understood that sitting in the middle of the road and stopping hard working British citizens from getting to work or visiting sick relatives in hospital were alienating the very people they should be getting onside.
Insulate Britains 'Biff' said
We've had feedback that people are frustrated that they spent time in traffic queues.
"We're not planning to stop traffic but it could slow down to five miles an hour."
No, I’m against protestors being attacked with the excuse that “the majority” don’t like their methods and/or cause.
They can hardly complain about people resorting to direct action against them when they are breaking the law themselves.
That's the same for all vigilante action. Are you up for people being attacked in the street for parking across double yellows while buying their fish and chips?
Here's an example of personal responsibility vs government.
I used to fly for work, before COVID. I've been criticised for this a fair bit from some people. Now - it wasn't me choosing to do it, I was being sent there, and it's a condition of the job that I agree to do this. I could change jobs, but then my employer would find someone else who would do it, because if we didn't a competitor would and they'd gain an advantage. So the flights would still get made.
If a government banned or heavily penalised these kinds of flights (it won't, but that's another story) then we'd have to stop, I could keep my job, our competitors wouldn't gain an advantage by doing it, and the number of miles flown would plummet immediately. But the work would still get done as it'd be done remotely.
It’s so good for us üntermensch to have you help enlighten us all, and lead us out of the darkness…
NOW I understand! Inaction on climate change is simply a mass action of cutting off their nose to spite everyone's faces, and if only IB had, I dunno, stuck to politely handing out leaflets in city centres, we'd all have been carbon negative years ago. Thanks for the insight.
They can hardly complain about people resorting to direct action against them when they are breaking the law themselves.
Exactly. At least someone understood my point.
Thanks for the insight.
No; thank you.
Are you up for people being attacked in the street for parking across double yellows while buying their fish and chips?
Death penalty.
Summary execution by members of the public whipped into a fury by the press? Or due process of arrest, charged, trial, and penalty?
I support them more now x
Calling anyone raising issues around the environment a “hypocrite” is the first line of attack these days. Not, “what they say is happening isn’t”… that one has dried up… it’s now “we shouldn’t listen to what they say we should change as a society, because I have evidence that they use taxis/planes/singleglazing”.
we all know it’s happening. It’s the fact that those who want everyone to make changes to help solve the problem don’t seem to want to set an example themselves by leading that change. Whether it’s David Attenborough, Billy Windsor or Greta. They all get preachy to the rest of us whilst doing nothing themselves
You don’t want ‘everyone’ to make changes? Why not?
There's an Indy article saying that they've changed tactics and are now walking up hard shoulders with banners.
The group, who previously blocked roads by sitting in front of cars and glueing themselves to the roads, have now changed tack and have been spotted walking along the white lines of the M25. They opted to stop sitting on the roads after receiving “feedback” that many drivers were frustrated by their actions.
https://www.indy100.com/news/insulate-britain-protests-johnson-storm-m25-b1947664
it’s David Attenborough,
So you are back to attacking David Attenborough?
Well if you want to keep pushing the line that David Attenborough is a hypocrite good luck with that.
But if they start being more law-abiding and less obstructive to ordinary people just going about their lawful business, who will we have to hate now? Will it be immigrants again? I'm bored with hating immigrants. Most of them are very nice. 🙁
George Monbiot has done more than his fair share of flying round the planet...
Definitely a hypocrite then. Let's not listen to him. Or anyone. Heads down, in the sand, lazily labelling anyone trying to inform us of, and persuade politicians to facilitate, the changes needed, as hypocrites. Let it all burn down.
No; thank you.
You're welcome.
Now - how politely do IB have to protest before you deign to get on board?
Definitely a hypocrite then. Let’s not listen to him. Or anyone. Heads down, in the sand, lazily labelling anyone trying to inform us of, and persuade politicians to facilitate, the changes needed, as hypocrites. Let it all burn down.
Once again (it's a regular occurrence..) you miss the point...
Monbiot himself has admitted his own hypocrisy. He enjoys an enviable lifestyle because of the wealth and privilege he was born into. He knows this. Which is why being part of a movement that prevents ordinary people getting to work etc, is an abuse of that privilege. For all his good works, Monbiot, like all of us, has to take a look at himself, and understand the world doesn't revolve around HIM. That's the principle failing of XR and IB; they really don't understand that most folk simply don't have the luxury of being able to care sufficiently in order to make major changes to their lifestyles. If XR/IB etc want people to insulate their homes better, they need to come up with a better plan than one which may well actually cost people needlessly. Because most people can't afford to take time off work to indulge a bunch of privileged narcissists.
most folk simply don’t have the luxury of being able to care sufficiently in order to make major changes to their lifestyles.
Most folk won't have the luxury of voluntarily making positive changes to their lifestyles pretty soon.
@bridges - if you can't see that our intertwined global crises of mass extinction events, global heating and other devastating environmental crises - crises in critical systems we *all* rely on to live - are bigger in scope than votes for women in Blighty in 1903 and the emancipation of black people in a single country then I'm more happy to dismiss you as thick.
Because, clearly, you are.
You're not going to come round. Ever. It's clear you don't understand the criticality of the issues in front of the human race. After years of public campaigns, anyone who isn't on the same page is now just a stubborn obstacle to be ignored and overcome.
The time for "winning hearts and minds" - is over. It's time for action.
they really don’t understand that most folk simply don’t have the luxury of being able to care sufficiently in order to make major changes to their lifestyles
Is that why IB are pushing for the government to prioritise funding and planning to bring social housing stock insulation up to scratch? They are not the ones forcing the poor to make a choice between paying heating bills or feeding their families... they are pushing for the government to take charge of updating the housing stock of some of the poorest in society to reduce emissions and also to decrease the cost of living for those living in those homes.
It is not IB that think it can be left to individuals to choose to make (expensive in the short term) decisions that many simply can not afford to take (or can't take because they don't own their own homes)... they are the ones making the point that it is the government that needs to act.