You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more
Yeah, I can see that working, with the traffic stopped dead and vehicles bumper to bumper…
I would wager that the other side of the blocked carriageway was fairly quiet.
She particularly didn’t look like she was on her way to put a shift in anywhere,
That wasn't typical of the encounters I've seen but even so she didn't really conform to my idea of privilege: Untaxed Range Rover with bald tyres, plus something about her makes me suspect she didn't go to Cheltenham Ladies college.
...and she was taking her kids to school, which *is* necessary.
So yeah, I'd guess she was an example of someone who isn't rolling in cash doing something relatively important
In contrast the people blocking the road were white middle class people with time to burn.
Appalling.
Hope the driver sees the inside of a court room. No excuse I can think of to use a car as a weapon.
As for the utter arse hat egging her on, what a merchant banker.
Also can’t afford a **** Range Rover
I couldn’t afford her nails, let alone her car.
Hope the driver sees the inside of a court room. No excuse I can think of to use a car as a weapon.
Yeah. That could have ended horrifically, needs sorting through the courts IMHO.
The more ‘hardcore’ activists seem to be mostly white, middle class people who obviously don’t have to be at work etc.
They tend to be because they recognise their privilege and use it. Not everyone has the luxury of being able to give up work for this and yes it does tend to be the white and middle class because of the way privilege has worked in this country. They should be applauded for giving up their comfort because that woman being pushed by the car looked properly scared but I'm sure she will be back.
I’ve seen lots of quotes on this thread about “middle class white people with time to burn”. What evidence is there of this? Are these just quotes repeated from other forums or the tabloid press? And what if they are as quoted, does it diminish the argument for the quick returns (for rich and poor) in having properly insulated homes?
Imagine the brassneck of someone in your class saying 'hey is this your mum on youtube?'
the current tactics are only angering the kind of people you’d need to be winning over
Not sure they are looking to win over cuprinol-tanned, fat-arsed harpies with fake nails, tits and Range Rovers - who would rather burn every hydrocarbon on earth than give up their hair straighteners / facial saunas / patio heaters.
🤷♂️
“I’m not joking, my son needs to get to school. Move out the way. Move out the way now.”
Bet he's close to a suspension/exclusion for being a mouthy little shit, whenever he actually shows up.
Just a bit of supposition on my part, looking at the tree the cherubic little apple fell from.
😉
and she was taking her kids to school, which *is* necessary.
You ****in' wot? Didn't somebody say the kid was 12...
And you'd count that as necessary?
My mind is truly blown
You ****’ wot? Didn’t somebody say the kid was 12…
And you’d count that as necessary?
?
and she was taking her kids to school, which *is* necessary.
50:50 the school is a short walk from the house.
I couldn’t afford her nails, let alone her car.
Tbh, bald tyres,no tax,I don't imagine she can afford the car,really.
I don't think the XR lot are going about it the right way, but I haven't got any better suggestions so I'll keep shtum.
It'll be a rented car most likely
Fat cow could have just parked up and walked little Alfie the [ guess ] 1/4 mile to school but no , I am entitled so I am going to nudge you out of my way.
NO one comes out of this looking good in any way
The Insinuate Britain cause rise in CO by blocking roads /making traffic jams which people sit in with their engines running
Why was she waving her phone around? Is it some kind of disrupter weapon weapon that makes people turn to ash ? nope she is exactly the type to use her phone constantly whilst driving / eating / drinking , updating her 'socials' and needing the drip drip drip of the dopamine hit of every 'like' or heart emoji
Bet shes even got 'Blessed' written across her arse crack . bit stretched now as she has developed big bone syndrome
They need to chain themselves to Shell & BP HQ
And what do you expect Shell and BP to do about the lack of insulation in UK housing ?
It’ll be a rented car most likely
No tax, bald tyres. Not sounding rented to me.
updating her ‘socials’ and needing the drip drip drip of the dopamine hit of every ‘like’ or heart emoji
<hits 'like' button>
I'll bet she's got 'Live, Laugh, Love' in big letters fixed to her kitchen wall.
They need to chain themselves to Shell & BP HQ
XR tried that several times.
Given it's probably the same professional protestors they are probably aware that it was about as successful as shouting at the wind.
To be fair she was well insulated, in a let's rethink stretch clothing sort of way.
Rented / Hired / Pcp/ PcH deal
all the same to me . You are just borrowing it for a period of time
Gobby son gets out the car waving a McDonalds shake around. Maybe if they have the time to go out for breakfast of a morning then ramming ladies with 2T 4x4 might not be so neccessary.
It’s got us all talking so must be making us think! Professional protesters or middle class white people with time to burn? It’s got to be mostly people who can have time off work or are retired and take the hit when arrested. Respect for taking a position and taking action (non violent).
Can you imagine sitting in a Range Rover and just driving at someone you know is sat in front of your massive car?* You'd have no idea if it would crush her, break her neck, snap her back like a twig... you just wouldn't know. And still you press on that accelerator. Woman is a ****ing psycho.
(*with your 11 year old child in the car)
Can you imagine sitting in a Range Rover and just driving at someone you know is sat in front of your massive car? You’d have no idea if it would crush her, break her neck, snap her back like a twig… you just wouldn’t know. And still you press on that accelerator. Woman is a **** psycho.
+1
It's chilling. It's not a driving issue, it's a deliberate reckless assault with a weapon that could easily have killed or maimed.
Yeah the woman was definitely out of order, doesn't excuse the idiots blocking the roads, gluing themselves down so not even the emergency services can get through.
Massive entitlement all around, the woman in the nicked Range Rover (we've established we don't think it's rented) and the holier than thou glue fetishists, who to be honest do look like very comfortably off middle class people with time on their hands who a criminal record won't cause a lot of issues for.
People's heartfelt beliefs don't trump the obstruction laws or court orders, if they did it be would anarchy.
Yeah the woman was definitely out of order, doesn’t excuse the idiots blocking the roads, gluing themselves down so not even the emergency services can get through.
Massive entitlement all around, the woman in the nicked Range Rover (we’ve established we don’t think it’s rented) and the holier than thou glue fetishists, who to be honest do look like very comfortably off middle class people with time on their hands who a criminal record won’t cause a lot of issues for.
People’s heartfelt beliefs don’t trump the obstruction laws or court orders, if they did it be would anarchy.Yeah the woman was definitely out of order, doesn’t excuse the idiots blocking the roads, gluing themselves down so not even the emergency services can get through.
Massive entitlement all around, the woman in the nicked Range Rover (we’ve established we don’t think it’s rented) and the holier than thou glue fetishists, who to be honest do look like very comfortably off middle class people with time on their hands who a criminal record won’t cause a lot of issues for.
People’s heartfelt beliefs don’t trump the obstruction laws or court orders, if they did it be would anarchy.
+1
So yeah, I’d guess she was an example of someone who isn’t rolling in cash doing something relatively important
Oh sure, nothing says "not rolling in cash" like a 20 plate Range Rover driver seriously considering running someone over on the school run.
Woman sat in the road was in no danger of killing or maiming anyone though. There’s your balance.
Woman sat in the road was in no danger of killing or maiming anyone though.
Apart from the critical patient in ambulance who got stuck in the congestion, or the kid walking to school who struggled to cross the road due to congestion, or the person with breathing issues who had an attack due to intensity of exhaust fumes generated by the additional congestion.
What if the lady had lain down across the road. Another Emily Pankhurst moment updated by 100 years if nail bar hippo drops the clutch.
Bet she updated her faceache profile with a fricken ' BE KIND' Rainbow sillohette when the love island presenter died. Unless im going to be late for mildreds purple rinse at the salon, then being kind is not on todays agenda
Apart from the critical patient in ambulance who got stuck in the congestion
Ah yes, 'Schrodinger's Paramedic'.
he kid walking to school
Wut? It ain't 1985. Kids are transported around in leased Range Rovers.
Apart from the critical patient in ambulance who got stuck in the congestion
You are gonna shit yourself when you find out how many KSIs there are on UK roads.
or the kid walking to school who struggled to cross the road due to congestion
Traffic's stopped for once - piece of the proverbial
or the person with breathing issues who had an attack due to intensity of exhaust fumes generated by the additional congestion.
If only someone would do something about those pesky fumes, maybe a protest or something?
Personality i prefer crossing roads with stationery traffic caused by congestion, rather tben crossing rods with a constant stream of traffic doing 40,mph a foot in front of me but maybe im on my own on that.
I don’t think the XR lot are going about it the right way, but I haven’t got any better suggestions so I’ll keep shtum.
That is the challenge.
If you did highly targeted protests against the government then no one would report it unless you dumped a bunch of abestos/some other thing to link it to insulation.
So noticable disruption is needed but as you say "better suggestions" on how to do it is somewhat tricky since you need to annoy people enough for it to be reported but not so much to turn everyone against you.
Ah yes, ‘Schrodinger’s Paramedic’.
Beautiful
Apart from the critical patient in ambulance who got stuck in the congestion, or the kid walking to school who struggled to cross the road due to congestion, or the person with breathing issues who had an attack due to intensity of exhaust fumes generated by the additional congestion.
What about all the other people causing congestion? Are they complicit in the health effects of their roles as part of the traffic?
If you did highly targeted protests against the government
You would be stopped from doing so.
then being kind is not on todays agenda
For either party.
What did the protestors expect to happen when they sit in the middle of the road? Do they actually think the public care about their cause enough to be happy to be held up by their futile meaningless stunt. Sure they have the right to protest, equally the road users have the right to go about their lawful business
the person with breathing issues who had an attack due to intensity of exhaust fumes generated by the additional congestion.
Ooh, I’m sure I’ve heard that shit spouted when claiming cyclists are bad for the environment..
equally the road users have the right to go about their lawful business
Forgetting that the person involved in this was breaking any number of laws, all at the same time. As are many other road users. Every day. The right to protest is being eroded, this will require protests to happen “in the community” rather than be directed at key people or locations. There will be more of this in future, sadly. It’s how protesting looks when it is “cracked down on” near the seats of political power in London etc. Protestors need to be nimble to make their point, they aren’t going to be sitting outside the Palace of Westminster, or any similar site, any more. That’s now denied them.
Sure they have the right to protest, equally the road users have the right to go about their lawful business
This isn't Top Trumps, you can't justify running someone over because "bloody hell, I really need to go somewhere IN MY CAR!!!"
Well, I can't - YMMV.
Seeing as cyclists dont cause congestion despite what the gammons say your point is pointless.
What about all the other people causing congestion? Are they complicit in the health effects of their roles as part of the traffic?
Yes, but at least they have reason to be doing so, the protesters are going to change nothing with their behaviour (apart from turning more people away from acknowledging climate issues).
Yes, but at least they have reason to be doing so
Where do I get my "reason to congest" ticket validated?
So the argument is about reasons. Well, looking at this clip, if we’re deciding who has the best reason for their actions, I’m with the protestors wanting real action on climate change, not the person driving their kids to school in an unsafe, untaxed, polluting behemoth of a car.
Schrodinger’s Paramedic
En route to a cat scan obvs...
Canny wait until the XR and IB lovelies all descend en masse on Glasgow during COP26. Doubt the local 'businessmen' in their large black 4x4s will respond well to Olivia evo-sticking herself to Sprinburn Rd.
Were the suffragettes right to disrupt london and other cities the way they did the way they did?
If yes then whats the moral difference here?
If no then do you think women would have got the right to vote?
The campaign was then escalated, with the suffragettes chaining themselves to railings, setting fire to post box contents, smashing windows and eventually detonating bombs, as part of a wider bombing campaign.[33] Some radical techniques used by the suffragettes were learned from Russian exiles from tsarism who had escaped to England.[34] In 1914, at least seven churches were bombed or set on fire across the United Kingdom, including Westminster Abbey, where an explosion aimed at destroying the 700-year-old Coronation Chair, only caused minor damage.[35] Places that wealthy people, typically men, frequented were also burnt and destroyed whilst left unattended so that there was little risk to life, including cricket pavilions, horse-racing pavilions, churches, castles and the second homes of the wealthy.
A bit more extreme than glueing themselves to a road
Protestors need to be nimble to make their point,
protesters need to remember that they need to change and influence popular opinion if they want to actually effect change. I’m not sure how blocking roads actually helps with that objective
Fact of the matter is, we've known about the requirement to insulate Britain's old housing stock since at least the 1990's (when I got out of the environmental game because I realised only serious political action would do anything, that it wouldn't happen and that I'd pauper myself in the process).
30 years later, these people have started taking direct action. And people are angry about it.
Good. They're angry, and it's in the news.
Fighting in the streets next. And the government can't really ignore that. So they'll crack down more.
And then, slowly but surely, the idiot public who show no solidarity with people who've got to the end of their tether of being ignored, will understand that they're on the wrong side of the argument, and simply (and stupidly short-sightedly) identify with fat women in untaxed range rovers.
Yes, but at least they have reason to be doing so
And these officially approved reasons are?
Being too lazy to cycle a couple of miles to work perhaps.
Were the suffragettes right to disrupt london and other cities the way they did the way they did?
Are we really putting the right for a woman to vote, and the right for more cavity wall insulation in the same discussion?
they need to change and influence popular opinion if they want to actually effect change
How’s that panned out over the last 50 years then? The change that is needed has been known about for half a century now. How do you influence popular opinion? How does that then change building regs, planning requirements, funding for transforming shared dwellings, new standards for private landlords, social housing programmes, listed building change limitations, end of life programmes for domestic gas units, green taxes on domestic and business sites based on energy wastage…
How’s that panned out over the last 50 years then? The change that is needed has been known about for half a century now.
What are you worried about precisely? I say we wait another 50 years and see how it's going. Duh.
I think that’s pretty much the plan. Anyway, whatever the plan, don’t get in the way of my black disco sport, my kids are too special to get the bus, I know my rights (but ignore all my obligations). Damn law breakers (no, not me, I have good reasons for breaking all the laws I’m breaking).
I’m not sure how blocking roads actually helps with that objective
I think the answer lies in the many long years of f***-all happening as a result of passive protest. You'd be moaning about those bloody suffragettes, right?
Are we really putting the right for a woman to vote, and the right for more cavity wall insulation in the same discussion?
It's not really about "the right for more cavity wall insulation", is it now.
But you knew that.
Are we really putting the right for a woman to vote, and the right for more cavity wall insulation in the same discussion?
There are clearly parallels.
In 2020, the residential sector emitted 67.7 MtCO2, accounting for 20.8% of all carbon dioxide emissions BTW.
For the record, I think they have got their outward messaging wrong - hence some people think its "just" about cavity wall insulation
They want social housing made more efficient within a few years, and other rented and owner occupied properties by 2030. Importantly they want it backed by legal requirements, rather than just “consumer choice” and the “invisible hand”. We can argue about the dates, but let’s see a plan to make this happen, rather than politicians and the public alike accepting that it needs to happen, but not creating or insisting on a government action plan (rather than vague commitments).
Were the fuel protests which blocked the refineries in 2000 an acceptable form of protest, or was that holding the country to ransom?
Were the fuel protests which blocked the refineries in 2000 an acceptable form of protest
They were by most measures successful.
I am not sure if that counts as acceptable or not but it certainly worked better than hanging around outside downing street.
Did they have a “reason for doing so”… if they did that’s fine, if they didn’t then all consequences are on them, and they get what’s coming to them. And deciding on whether a “reason for doing so” is valid isn’t at all subjective… oh no.
It’s not really about “the right for more cavity wall insulation”, is it now.
But you knew that.
Yes, but throwing in the suffragettes was so broad that I thought an equally obtuse reply was appropriate. I really don’t know how they can be considered together, other than both were protesting.
I read their brief a while ago when they first appeared with their Brexit style logo. IIRC, they were asking the government to immediately agree to deliver and fully fund a £500bn plan (their estimate) within four months, delivered over 30 years, to ‘insulate Britain’ else there’d be consequences.
Is that not hopelessly naive?
Were the suffragettes right to disrupt london and other cities the way they did the way they did?
The suffragettes couldn't vote. If you're denied a vote AFAIC you have every moral right to adopt other methods.
I really see no moral difference. Its a protest to make a political point - and the suffragettes were rather more extreme destroying property not just blocking a few roads for a short period
Interesting the contrasting profiles given of the protesters and the driver on this thread.( two cheeks of an arse in my opinion.)
Its all a tiny drop in the ocean of the millions of tons of co2 the Chinese pump into the atmosphere
Try blocking the roads in Beijing and they will roll out the army.
If the insinuating britain mob wanna get serious then proper snarling up Westminster is going to be more effective.
Deisel soaked disposable bbqs that set the tarmac on fire, dumb stuff that requires road closure even if your not glued down with Sticks Like ####
is a different kettle of fish
No. These people are simply being inconvenienced. Because you are in a car doesn't necessarily make your journey urgent or even necessary. Anyway back to the point. You would run a person over who was "inconveniencing" you as long as you could not be caught and identified. You dont sound like a nice person and you should not have a driving license.
I'd fully support this kind of a tiinnif I thought it would work. But I think it's actually making things worse.
It's nothing like what the Suffragettes did because the context is absolutely 100% different. Their protests had impact because it was new, and they were women and it was part of a long orcheatrated campaign. It was adversarial with half the country potentially on their side against the other. These people are the nth iteration of the same sort of civil disobedience but it's in a completely different time and place on a different issue and I don't think it's going to be anywhere near as effective.
Its all a tiny drop in the ocean of the millions of tons of co2 the Chinese pump into the atmosphere
Don't start this again. It all counts, you can't just give up because someone else isn't doing anything. However bear in mind that the Chinese are doing things to clean themselves up, quite possibly more than us; and that a large amount of their pollution is caused by them making the stuff we buy.
Apart from the critical patient in ambulance who got stuck in the congestion, or the kid walking to school who struggled to cross the road due to congestion, or the person with breathing issues who had an attack due to intensity of exhaust fumes generated by the additional congestion.
As ponds says above, this is complete garbage. Cannot believe you tried to say that it's the fault of the ER person that the kid can't walk to school due to too many cars!
Personality i prefer crossing roads with stationery traffic caused by congestion,
Imagines weaving in and out of massive 4x4s made of glued together protractors and rulers...
Chinese are doing things to clean themselves up
Yup. Plus they had a one child policy for decades. The impact of that dwarfs anything anyone else will do.
protesters need to remember that they need to change and influence popular opinion if they want to actually effect change.
People keep talking about 'changing opinion' as if that is the the objective of these protests.
It's not. It's nothing to do with opinion - all the science was proven long ago.
Protest now isn't about 'winning people over' in some nice, soft and friendly way.
It's a desperate, angry, last-ditch attempt at getting governments to do *something* to save the planet.
When your government's response is to propose legislation to make protest itself illegal, you know that, far from not listening, they are actually paying very close attention to the climate protests.
And responding in their own way. You get what you vote for but don't blame all the ordinary, law-abiding and peace-loving citizens who feel compelled to protest for that.
Its all a tiny drop in the ocean of the millions of tons of co2 the Chinese pump into the atmosphere
Ah, the old 'Blame the Chinese for manufacturing all the tat that we in the west buy' chestnut.
Are we really putting the right for a woman to vote, and the right for more cavity wall insulation in the same discussion?
I think I was the first person to mention suffragettes, three pages ago. So yes I am putting them in the same conversation- I’m not saying they are equivalent, but like Suffragettes, the Kinder Scout Tresspass and other “mass protests” the acceptability of an action often seems to depend if you “win”, then you are remembered as “heroes” or lose and are remembered as trouble makers.
The suffragettes couldn’t vote. If you’re denied a vote AFAIC you have every moral right to adopt other methods.
Initially your comment seemed sensible but a moments reflection reminded me that virtually every suffragette had a father, and many had a husband so if they couldn’t convince the two men closest to them to value their opinion and vote accordingly why should their “issue” be so serious the rest of the country should care? The same argument would apply to environmental campaigners who believe that politicians of all flavours are not prioritising what they should. I may have misunderstood the party politics of the early 1900s but the first issue was just to get any party to consider it for their manifesto.
What if you are 16/17 and gluing yourself to roads?
What if you are a European living in this country who didn’t get a vote?
A right to protest is a fairly fundamental human right. Driving your car along a road is not a human right. Little Johnny getting an education is an important right too - although I don’t think the disruption for a few hours will put him at too much of a disadvantage.
… I think it's a sad state of affairs when we all think that blocking a few roads is 'extreme'.
Shows how dull, uninvolved and accepting we've all become.
Probably because we care more about our Range Rovers than about social justice, democracy, climate emergency.
I agree with the message from the protesters but the way they're going about it is ridiculous. We're taught from a young age how to cross a road safely. Sitting in a road like a lemon is not a very safe thing to do.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but shouldn't that Range Rover be equipped with active safety braking etc etc. Probably is, but given the number of electrical faults these have, the woman is lucky she could actually get it off the drive, oh and then to be stopped.
Many of these protesters are hypocrites.
Why block commuter roads, when the protest is about home insulation ? Get thee down to Westminster, by bike !
I agree with the message from the protesters
What are you going to do about it then?
Agreeing with them, and not doing anything, has the same outcome as disagreeing with them.
What are you, personally, going to do to try to make the government act meaningfully on the climate emergency?
If you concede that you're not going to do anything, you're not really in any position to criticise those who are trying, on our behalf.
(Unless you secretly think the climate emergency is fake news.)
active safety braking
I thought that, but it looked to me as though that system was activated - just something about the body language of the vehicle.
My great aunt painted ‘Votes for Women’ on John Burns MP’s garden wall. She escaped arrest when she gave the copper her name which was the same as his. He told her to "bugger off" according to my grandfather.
Initially your comment seemed sensible but a moments reflection reminded me that virtually every suffragette had a father, and many had a husband so if they couldn’t convince the two men closest to them to value their opinion and vote accordingly
How on earth do you know what the fathers and husbands of the suffragettes valued? MPs, peers and many other men supported the suffragette movement. Influential men including Henry Nevinson, Israel Zangwill, Hugh Franklin, Henry Harben, and Gerald Gould, formed the Men’s League for Women’s Suffrage and men like George Lansbury, and other like MPs Frederick Pethick Lawrence, John Stuart Mill, Jacob Bright, Peter McLagan, and Walter McLaren were salso supporters of the movement.
I think it was Israel Zangwill who declared the League for Women’s Suffrage support for the movement by saying, “The petticoat no longer makes the Suffragette. We are suffragettes – suffragettes in trousers.”
As you wrote, initially your comment seemed sensible but a moments reflection reminded me...