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Out tomorrow on the Medway.
Life preservers obvs. Dry bags for extra clothes. Just a test really. My lad and I have wanted one for ages but all sold out last year. One of these each. In estuary, so no licence needed yet.
https://www.decathlon.co.uk/p/inflatable-touring-kayak-1-place-yellow/_/R-p-163731
I can't crash a kayak. Possibly.
As long as there's no strong winds / currents or tides I expect you'll get very cold hands
It’ll be fine, until it isn’t..
cold winds tomorrow. Cold water. Recipe for getting cold fast and that’s without going in the water.
what you wearing to keep the wind/spray off?
Swept out to sea and you both die?
You'ii be fine if you take care.
Take woolly hats and gloves, even if its just your mtb full finger gloves. PFD's ('life preserver') need to fit properly just like a helmet does. Plenty of warm clothes in the car and a warm fleece each in the drybag.
Getting in and out will be the time you most likely fall in so take care doing that, especially for the first time.
Medway has locks so just be mindful of currents near them and always pull in to the bank well before a lock. The Medaway has canoe shoots but don't use them in an infltable as they often have bits of metal sticking up which will shred your kayak.
Kids love kayaking - have fun!
Check the state / time of the tides and winds - get on the wrong side of each and you may struggle to make much headway. Best to stick to slack water / sheltered spots whilst you get the hang of it. If you haven't paddled much, you may find your arms will tire quickly - a proper paddle stroke is down upper body rotation with relatively little arm movement.
I’ve had experience of a two person inflatable canoe/kayak on the sea and lakes, bought to carry in the motorhome. As a fibreglass paddler in my youth and quite experienced it was a strange transition. Much harder work as the wind affects you more but once you get adapted, great fun and I even used it in North Wales heavy seas with no problems- with the benefit of a unique view of Snowdon! Have fun!!
Genuine thanks for all the hints and tips and all duly noted.
My lad is 23 and a dad himself now so I'll be making sure we stay very,very safe and warm.
There's some good advice above.
It's easy with paddling to not know what you don't know.
Can you climb back in, while in deepwater?
Can you make headway into the wind, and understand how to trim it to keep the bow into wind/on target?
How much energy will it take to paddle back to shore, when you're cold from a unexpected dunk?
Think these things through before you go...
That said, paddling is a wonderful sport, and leads us on many adventures.
Read up on cold water shock. Not saying don’t do it. But do be aware.
We have a 2 man inflatable. Used it loads in the sea around North Wales and its lots of fun but the wind does really take it as you sit so high up. I'd go as far as to say you need to look at the map and the wind direction as paddling into the wind for any length of time will be a killer. Downwind on the other hand will be ace.
We did a long stint down the river severn last summer. Something like 25 miles over 4 hours. It was lovely but sitting for that long in one of those things is not recommended. Our legs / backs were done in.
Out of curiosity, what's the wet exit re-entry technique for an inflatable?
Suppose I could just Google it
Moderate winds tomorrow, so set off into the wind, certainly until you've understood how much effect it has, both in terms of speed and steering.
Out of curiosity, what’s the wet exit re-entry technique for an inflatable?
With regards to clothing, are wetsuits OK? I guess if you're jumping in and out of the kayak they're ideal, but if you're not planning on getting wet are they too hot / restrictive for general paddling?
They will be ok - without spending dafty money on a dry suit, a wetsuit is a good compromise if you think you will get wet.
@winston - sounds like great advice for the non tidal Medway, but he said estuary which is a whole different beast.
Which bit of the estuary poop scoop? I’m no kayaker but know the Medway so just interested.
About 300 quid for a drysuit. Gul make. Or I think theres a top you can get with a rubber/neoprene neck and cuffs to prevent water ingress and the material is 100% waterproof so splashes and spray wont make you freeze.
7deg c on land is not going to be 7 deg c offshore, especially if theres any wind whatsoever. It could well be closer to freezing.
Personally, though ive no experience of inflatable kayaking, though plenty of offshore sailing, I'd leave it till the warmer weather comes in. In that event, I'd also,being a novice, go with a larger group, probably with an experienced leader too.
If anyone goes in and cant get out, the other trying to help might go in too, especially if its a family member, and leave you both in trouble.
Swept out to sea and you both die?
Oh look, sensible advice 😉
The guy in the you tube vid is likely very experienced and is making it look easy. Lets see you try to remember the contents of that vid as a novice and in circumstances of danger.
My only experience of canoeing is in a loch, and when we practiced exiting from a capsize, getting the water out then getting back into it.
I remember it being very cold and a complete shock to the system. That was close to shore in summer and with an experienced group with 2 leaders, and not everyone in our group managed to get back in without a canoe each side and help. I think a non rigid kayak would just be a bit floppy and have nothing solid enough to get a good hold of.
It’ll be fine, until it isn’t..
cold winds tomorrow. Cold water. Recipe for getting cold fast and that’s without going in the water.
The above is good comment.
Air temperatures around 5c tomorrow with a moderate northerly wind making it feel even colder. If you are in an open estuary (I don't know Medway at all) and find yourself inadvertently in the water (around 8-9c at this time of year) for any reason and you aren't wearing 4/5mm wetsuits you will be very cold very quickly and hypothermia won't be far away.
There will be better and safer days for a first trip out!
Which bit of the estuary are you going to? The Swale is quite a sheltered waterway, with a good launching area near the Kingsferry bridge. If you're only after a tryout, a paddle along it would be my choice.
Wetsuits with windproof layer over will be fine. Overtrousers definitely worth taking. Ideally you should try out the new boats and gain confidence somewhere non tidal first. Water temperatures are at their coldest around this time of year so be careful out there!
The guy in the you tube vid is likely very experienced and is making it look easy.
That's Ray Godwin, he makes everything in a canoe look easy. He was given an MBE/OBE last year for services to sport. He is probably the best canoeist/Canoe trainer in Britain today.
Cheers @matt_outandabout
More of less the same technique as an non inflatable open canoe then, scrabble and kick in from the side.
You ever tried the technique where you set up a piece of rope as a mini step ladder off either end of the boat?
All I'll say is that it's going to be a lot colder than you think it will be.
TBH the only way I'd be going on the water ATM is in a dry suit or winter steamer {wetsuit}.
Those who have said that there will be better days for a first outing are right.
I have used a climbing sling of the right length to help someone without enough upper body strength to haul themselves in. One foot in the sling to act as a ladder. It sort of worked but their foot did get caught in sling as they came into the boat.
In the post rescue debate the risk is clearly the casualty not getting into the boat and falling backwards now with their ankle caught/attached to the boat. I was trying to bring them into a dry boat which I think I prioritised at the time, these days I would be happier to bring someone into a wet boat (with a lower gunnel).
(note this was a canoe, with an inflatables I think you would struggle to lower a gunnel to scoop up a person)
The water in the medway isn't cold enough for cold water shock. I was swimming in there all last week. Not that cold at all.
You ever tried the technique where you set up a piece of rope as a mini step ladder off either end of the boat?
Yes I have. My canoes have it permanently hidden under the gunwhale in case. And I once a year practice and all-in - but then I paddle Scottish lochs without safety back up other than ourselves, and even if you did call for help on many lochs there isn't any rescue service...
As other say, it does increase a risk, but the loop is at least 1m long and open, so minimising such risks in tandem with experience of using them.
We often paddle no more than 25m offshore - any tipping in means a less than 1 minute swim with my 30m swimline in hand...
As above, go and enjoy yourself, but there are some 'what if?' scenario's that are worth thinking through, and an all-in and self-rescue is one of them.
The water in the medway isn’t cold enough for cold water shock. I was swimming in there all last week. Not that cold at all.
yes it is. unless they've starting heating it.
Cold Water Shock - Water Safety Tips - Know The Risks (rnli.org)
That’s Ray Godwin, he makes everything in a canoe look easy.
What was he doing with the black dry bag before he effortlessly climbed into the canoe?
He did make that look soooo easy though!
I guessed it was a counterweight? but similar question from me. Agree on the effortlessness of the whole thing.
Been a while since I've practiced self rescue, really need to do so soon. Good nudge Matt.
Interesting thread. I purchased a inflatable SUP last year and had some brilliant times out on Ullswater etc with my daughter from Early September onwards. We wore PFD's and wetsuits and were quite happy with our clumsy attempts which resulted in one or both of us in the water on a regular basis. We classed it as getting used to things and learning.
Anyhow, reason for replying. We packed it all up for the winter and decided from a wind, temperature, enjoyment and SAFETY perspective we didnt think it sensible to carry on any longer into the colder months. I am chomping at the bit to get back to it but it just seems too cold and windy. I have the aps to show wind speed and direction etc. I just cant bring myself to go out in these temps and risk it. I have been watching people with similar experience levels able to go all winter with a bit of extra clothing on.
Is it safe? We are ok getting back on the board easily. How bad a sitution is the two of us falling off the board, getting back on and trying to stay warm?
I guessed it was a counterweight?
Looked empty, bar a bit of air. I thought he was going to use it as a step, he then swam round the other side.....
Is it safe? We are ok getting back on the board easily. How bad a sitution is the two of us falling off the board, getting back on and trying to stay warm?
The only way you can answer this is to go and try it, a few metres off-shore and with assistance at hand.
Last time I met Ray Goodwin face to face he got us to do a January, midnight on Lake Bala 'all in' rescue... Then again we all 'fell in' on his instruction the second day in big waves and high winds. I was amazed at some of the faffage some folk demonstrated (as 5* Canoe candidates).
Since then I have practised it and made staff at the outdoor centre practice it in Open Canoes. I can fall in and be back in an upright boat in about 30 seconds these days(!), second person back on board in another 20-30 seconds, then every other boat take longer to paddle to than to flip up dry. My boat is set up every time to do rescues and tows.
I haven't ever tried any of this with inflatables. Only kayaks and canoes of all shapes (And a 27' Drascombe (-; ) )
As with all things outdoors, we can focus on the risks and the 'whatabout' - but at the end of the day it is risk benefit judgement. The benefits of winder paddling are wonderful, the risks can be managed pretty well, but you do need to have thought about them.
Some winter images to brighten up a fearful thread...
[url= https://live.staticflickr.com/8677/16297630238_a1f92b3f1f_c.jp g" target="_blank">https://live.staticflickr.com/8677/16297630238_a1f92b3f1f_c.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/qQaBEN ]Canoe Loch Tay Islands, Killin[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/matt_outandabout/ ]Matt Robinson[/url], on Flickr
[url= https://live.staticflickr.com/7319/16287756520_daeb21137d_c.jp g" target="_blank">https://live.staticflickr.com/7319/16287756520_daeb21137d_c.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/qPi1yh ]Loch Achray Canoe[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/matt_outandabout/ ]Matt Robinson[/url], on Flickr
[url= https://live.staticflickr.com/8598/15901982328_d8fc845beb_c.jp g" target="_blank">https://live.staticflickr.com/8598/15901982328_d8fc845beb_c.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/qecPk7 ]Loch Ard Canoe December 2014 - Ghillie Kettle[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/matt_outandabout/ ]Matt Robinson[/url], on Flickr
[url= https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49547602612_d9aeccca83_c.jp g" target="_blank">https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49547602612_d9aeccca83_c.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/2iumq3y ]Canoe River Eamont and Eden[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/matt_outandabout/ ]Matt Robinson[/url], on Flickr
(Not seen: the drive up A9 in 2 feet of snow the night before)
[url= https://live.staticflickr.com/8324/8138114597_41f1006382_c.jp g" target="_blank">https://live.staticflickr.com/8324/8138114597_41f1006382_c.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/dp8XWD ]Canoe river Spey[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/matt_outandabout/ ]Matt Robinson[/url], on Flickr
Is it safe? We are ok getting back on the board easily. How bad a sitution is the two of us falling off the board, getting back on and trying to stay warm?
The only way you can answer this is to go and try it, a few metres off-shore and with assistance at hand.
Not really the only way but do as matt_outandabout also says, think about the risks.
Be realsitic about your own abilities and understand the conditions you're planning to paddle in. What's the wind doing or forecast to do..? 15 knots and above will see choppy water and if it's offshore from your launch point you may/will struggle to paddle back.
Inland waters can get down to 3c over winter, I'd guess Ullswater isn't much above this currently.
A SUP is fairly easy to get back on but what if you've injured yourself or for some reason can't get back on and you're in 3c water for an hour? A cheap thin wetsuit won't keep you warm.
So paddle through the winter if you want, just pick the right conditions, wear the right kit and be prepared for unwanted mishaps. A mobile in a proper waterproof bag is good insurance.
I guessed it was a counterweight?
That is how they can be used - it will lift water above water surface as the boat tilts.
If your inexperienced I’d give anything tidal or large open expanses of water a miss whilst their are such cold winds and low water temp. It’s going to be fine until it’s not, and then it could go wrong really fast. There is a reason the rnli have had so many call outs in the last year.
Local advice is the key, I have a sit on top and had brilliant fun over the years. The chap we go with monitors the wind and direction forecasts, we change launch location a few times.
I have only fallen in once it's quite a shock, worth practicing.
I'm sure you've got the message by now, but since I'm bored I'll chuck in my two pence worth.
Kayaking is amazing. It is so intense that other sports like climbing, ice climbing skiing, MTBing, snowboarding etc just don't compare.... Thing mountain biking but with the trail also moving.
But it is also hidioudly dangerous.
Be careful
Watching with interest as I've been thinking about getting an inflatable kayak - sounds like the rough plan of, "begin in the summer, in a local waist-deep canal, and take up a colleague's offer of advice" is about right.
And don't rush into going on the river...
Kayaking is amazing. It is so intense that other sports like climbing, ice climbing skiing, MTBing, snowboarding etc just don’t compare…. Thing mountain biking but with the trail also moving.
i'm guessing you've never been to the medway...
(i cut my kayaking teeth doing slalom at yalding before anyone gets defensive)
Great thread.
We bought a 17ft Canadian canoe last year which is big enough (just) for 2 adults and 2 kids.
We had some great fun in it on the lochs local to Inverness and did a river trip.
We discussed some "what if" scenarios but didn't actually practice them. Will definitely be practicing an all in self rescue when the temp warms up, and also creating some of those rope ladders Matt talks about above.
One thing I did practice though was capsizing the boat solo to see just how far it could lean over before tipping. Quite a long way as it turns out. This was mid summer-ish and even with dry clothes on it took ages for me to to warm up again.
But it is also hidioudly dangerous.
It is so intense that other sports like climbing, ice climbing skiing, MTBing, snowboarding etc just don’t compare
@beamers Will definitely be practicing an all in self rescue when the temp warms up, and also creating some of those rope ladders Matt talks about above.
I find I have used swim lines much more - they are not just for moving water.
I have a huge throwline (25 or 30m) bungeed to the front of the boat and clipped direct to the pull-loop. If ever I swim on flat or moving, I can swim quickly to the side holding said rope, so never losing hold of the canoe . On moving you then just wrap a tree and pendulum the boat in. On flat you just pull hard - and anyone else swimming just holds the boat.
Certainly a number of "Throw caution to the winds" individuals on this and other threads 😕
https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/first-photos-missing-dad-who-23591871
This was on the river Barrow, which from all the pics looks like a tranquil meandering river, not the Medway ffs
wait until the end of june when the water is warm enough to fall in an enjoy it. 😆
Certainly a number of “Throw caution to the winds” individuals on this and other threads
Near death experiences do make for good tales....
I have nearly killed myself sky diving, swimming, scuba diving, rock climbing, ice climbing, dozens of mains electric shocks, driving a car (or rather losing control of one and flipping it), etc.
Still here offering advice 😉
Kayaking is on the list of ways to try killing myself at some point.
I've had a bit of a mess about in an inflatable, so here follows the thoughts of a distinct amateur.
They are very stable when sat in them, I can't imagine capsising the things short of being in multiple foot high short period waves.
Depending on the model, the seat or lack of means you could well be sitting in a cold puddle with a bit of spray/chop/sloppy paddling.
They are slow and currents can be deceiving in their speed. A river that at first glance was not flowing led to a 50% difference in speed upstream vs downstream with gentle/sociable paddling.
They are wide which means entry/exit from the bank is hard. Even getting out when beached/nearly beached is a challenge as there is little (or no) rigidity in the bottom plate to push against.
sat having a mid ride coffee in south Q ferry a couple of weeks back. It was sunny, but there had been an overnight frost. Watched a bloke and small (maybe 5-6yr old) kid paddle off in an inflatable kayak, in jeans and jacket (and buoyancy aid), out towards the middle pier of the rail bridge. He may have been very experienced and had lots of kit with him, but after spending many years sailing on those waters, there would be no way on earth i would have put myself and/or a child into that position.
I've got one of those Decathlon inflatables (2 man) - pretty pleased with it, it's surprisingly stable & generally quite confidence inspiring when out on calm water, I take my 4 year old out on the local loch in the summer but we only stray about 20ft from the shore just in case. We went out one day when it was a little bit windy & once on the water it was evident just how exposed the sides are to the wind, such a difference that makes to handling so it's calm sunny days only from now on.
I've seen folk out in some inflatables that I wouldn't use in a swimming pool never mind open water, was a couple out in one last week - not even one of the un-seasonally sunny days - looked like a lilo with sides, was drooping in the middle with each end pointing skywards but they were heading right into the middle of the loch full steam ahead, it's only 5 ft deep but still - f*ck that
To piggy back on this thread (hope you don't mind OP)...
My Dad and I have both bought open water swimming kit over winter (wetsuit, neoprene hat, socks, gloves, tow float etc). We have decided to go for our first swim soon, current sea temperature is just under 9°c where we are. It's going to be painful isn't it?
Thanks for all the further info/advice guys.
I did take heed, we left it for today and will venture out the tail end of next week when its meant to be warmer.
The wind was absolutely biting today when I was out for a walk.
I went for a swim in the Medway at Upnor last week just in my boxxers ( was impromptu swim, mid bike ride) but I was ready to go in rather than immersed by accident and there was little wind. Different scenario and my son feels the cold more then me.
Bitter for first few minutes, then pleasant for another half hour as long as I kept moving.
i’m guessing you’ve never been to the medway…
True, never progressed that far. I think Ulla Slides was probably about as far as I got, then it all started going wrong
https://www.maxbilbow.com/upper-ulla-slides-and-sights/
You wanna try yalding sluice then. It’ll blow your mind.
and probably give you the shits.
Had my first proper 'open water' swim today in 8°c sea. Had wetsuit and neoprene hat, socks and gloves. It was fine tbh, managed 30 mins and wasn't too cold afterwards though my dad really struggled and was still shivering about 40mins after however.
Had my first proper ‘open water’ swim today in 8°c sea.
Eek
First water-based fatality of this year in our area- chap fell or jumped out of a shared canoe on the Eden, found after a prolonged search by divers. Sobering.
Link to BBC
As a paddler who knows that river, that reporting leaves me wanting to know more about the incident...
As a paddler who knows that river, that reporting leaves me wanting to know more about the incident…
Yes, nothing on the Paddler FB groups I'm on this week, but checking the report, says it was last weekend, and a report on ITV says he fell into the river from a boat close to Lazonby. I'd guess at it being a fisherman, rather than a kayak paddler. Kayakers generally / always wear bouyancy aids, so their body would be at the surface if they drowned, this one was found by divers.
30mins for your first swim is I would suggest way too long. You need to build up the time slowly. Yes you might feel it’s a faff to get your gear on for a 10min swim but like any training you need to start small and build slowly.
Well, finally got down to Upnor beach with my son this evening. Bit of a bite to the breeze but lovely weather.
Really impressed with the kayaks, a doddle to set up and then pack back up. Coped with my weight well too.👍
We were out 2 hours, against the tide on the way back to start point. It was absolutely bloody fantastic. So calming and got to see a much loved beach from my childhood from a totally new perspective.
Anyone on the fence about dipping their toes into kayaking I can highly recommend it.
Like.
My dad learnt to water ski in the Medway one spring. Without a wetsuit. Nutter.
👌
Yay, was eyeing the fibreglass kayaks hanging from my garage roof yesterday, and thinking of the plastic ones in Costco last week. That looks like a fine evening out, first of many hopefully.
👍🌊🚢