Ineos Grenadier gives cyclists a Toot

And I don’t care what the Highway Code says , it’s not law and is open to interpretation, hence why it is so vague
...
And the Highway Code is a guide.

Much of THC is backed by law. The bits in capitals that say you MUST or MUST NOT do something is a legal requirement.

Also, get off the road.

And again, it is not a horn. The car has a horn and also has the toot button so you have to think that it won’t be like a horn (not as loud, not as aggressive sounding)

A shit horn is still a horn.

The horn in my first car sounded like a mosquito clearing its throat. The stalk (somewhat optimistically) had an icon of a trumpet on it. It was a horn.

Regardless of whether tooting the horn behind a cyclist is a dick move or not, what’s the cyclist meant to do upon hearing it? If the answer is nothing, which it should be, then what’s the point of it?

This.

Not anti bike at all, just see it from another perspective. I’ve never felt the need to toot anyone but coming round a blind bend on a country road I think a less obnoxious horn would be a handy thing to alert people of your presence.

So why not have the 'toot' button with a picture of a bend on it, rather than a bike?

What are people walking along a gravel road supposed to do when I ring my bell – nothing.

But it's not the same thing.

On a bike, it's either safe to overtake or it isn't. On foot people routinely take up all the available space. Sure, a cyclist could be up in primary with a string of traffic behind them when they should be moving over but I'd hazard they're outliers.

That Beep would be very handy to shake up some of the dozy bastards riding along single track roads on the likes of the NC500 and in the Hebrides.

Scottroll ?

I was wondering what would happen if tj met a car towing a caravan on a single-track road in primary.

Would they just sit looking at each other till the caravan caught fire ?

Is he on a conveyor belt?

Oh I see your thinking if he's on a conveyor he might take off into say......orbit ?

#bringbackthetags #tjgoesintoorbit #blamecynical

DrP

But it’s not the same thing.

On a bike, it’s either safe to overtake or it isn’t.

Apart from it is the same thing. There is room for me to get by but I ring my bell so they are not surprised as I ride past.
I happen to think that the car doesn't need a cyclist bell but I am also not bothered about the fact that it does, especially as nobody as even heard it

I was wondering what would happen if tj met a car towing a caravan on a single-track road in primary.

Depends how decently they behaved but almost certainly fo a caravan Id get out of the way.

i did once get into a stand off with a big 4x4 who wanted me to back up a tandem and trailer uphill because he could not put two wheels on the verge to let me thru or back up himself. I couldn't go onto the verge because of rocks. He could have. eventually he backed up very slowly and badly. I was just about to make a cup of tea and outwait him

Apart from it is the same thing. There is room for me to get by but I ring my bell so they are not surprised as I ride past.

NO its not the same thing. If the walkers stick to the side there is plenty of room to a pass. Neither is it dangerous.

Apart from it is the same thing. There is room for me to get by but I ring my bell so they are not surprised as I ride past.

If there's room for you to pass safely then there's no need for the bell. If they're going to be surprised that someone other than themselves exists then I'm rather thinking "let them be surprised."

Seriously: you're riding down a track [bridleway, towpath, shared-use pavement, single width road, whatever], you spy someone on foot up ahead, they're taking up maybe half a metre to the left of a 2-3m wide stretch of tarmac and you're hitting the bell so that they "are not surprised" rather than just riding on by?

Seriously: you’re riding down a track [bridleway, towpath, shared-use pavement, single width road, whatever], you spy someone on foot up ahead, they’re taking up maybe half a metre to the left of a 2-3m wide stretch of tarmac and you’re hitting the bell so that they “are not surprised” rather than just riding on by?

On gravel roads, yes I do exactly that. They are typically 4 metres wide and people walking in same direction with their backs to me may be taking up half of the gravel road (not necessarily on the left, this is not a road that cars use)
If I ride by at 15-20mph then yes they are surprised as they can't hear me coming until I am very close and then they panic/are surprised and could go in any direction.
Seems polite to me to let them know I will be passing them and in my experience they always thank me for letting them know. Can't see why you have a problem with that?

I don't have a problem with that at all.

I am however somewhat confused that by your own description a 2m wide gap seemingly isn't wide enough for a lone cyclist. That's at least a good metre and a half away from the pedestrians, we rarely get anything like that luxury on the roads from passing vehicles.

If you're passing at 15-20mph then a) by the time they've been 'surprised' you'll be in the next time zone so who cares and b) you might want to consider switching off Strava and slowing down a bit in shared-use areas.

I am however somewhat confused that by your own description a 2m wide gap seemingly isn’t wide enough for a lone cyclist. That’s at least a good metre and a half away from the pedestrians, we rarely get anything like that luxury on the roads from passing vehicles.

It is wide enough, just being nice by letting them know I am coming and they ALWAYS appreciate it and say thank you. Just because we don't get the luxury on the road from passing vehicles doesn't mean I can't do better than that does it when I am passing more vulnerable people.

And as you will know, as a cyclist, 15mph is not exactly fast on a bike so while I am going at a slow cycling speed it is still fast enough to be a surprise to someone casually walking along, hence the bell.

Not really understanding the problem here so won't waste any more time on this one.

The problems you seem unable to understand are:
1) Its illegal to use a horn in this way. Its only for warning of danger ad if you cannot pass a cyclist without being dangerous then you should not be passing
2) It actually adds to the danger to use a car horn in this way because of startling cyclists and making them wobble in front of you or making them dive for the gutter
3) using a horn behind a cyclist has no utility in than what is the cylist supposed to do?- all its doing is shouting " get out of my way pleb"

Mr toad is not a good role model for car drivers

Strong Groundhog Day vibes from this thread.

And as you will know, as a cyclist, 15mph is not exactly fast on a bike so while I am going at a slow cycling speed it is still fast enough to be a surprise to someone casually walking along, hence the bell.

Hence slowing down in a shared-use area. 20mph (as you originally suggested) might be "not exactly fast" but it is far too fast for that sort of environment. Walkers ALWAYS say 'thank you' for giving them a little dingle on the bell as you whistle past them at 20mph? Where do you live, Hughgrantshire?

My experience is more that I'm practically on top of people having been dinging away for the last 100 yards, then when one of them realises that the ringing in their ears isn't tinnitus they scream "BIKE!" and they all scatter like bowling pins, by which point if I were going any slower I'd be attempting a trackstand or (more likely) fall off. Then as you go "thanks!" and dribble past, they look at you like they've just caught you up to the hilt in their granddaughter and write to local newspapers using words like "menace."

And as you will know, as a cyclist, 15mph is not exactly fast on a bike

On space that you're sharing with peds, that's pretty fast. The average bod walks at what? 3-4mph, kids and oldies often slower than that, I use a shared offroad paved route to work, and my experience is similar to Cougars than yours, and I'm doing 10-12mph rather than 15-20mph.

interstingly my experience using a bell on shared paths is 99% positive - I get thanked often. But I use it when walkers are blocking the entire path and I thank folk when they move over.

the parallel with road cyling would be if the cyclists were 6 abreast using both sides of the carriageway then a toot on the horn would be acceptable

20mph on shared use path.

You do know sustrans points out the design and safety case was done at 12mph and that at +12mph you are advised to use the road.

When the boots on the other foot etc.

Wont someone think of the children.

...wrong thread! 😬

https://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/ineos-grenadier-on-harrys-garage/page/2/#post-12914801

Seriously: you’re riding down a track [bridleway, towpath, shared-use pavement, single width road, whatever], you spy someone on foot up ahead, they’re taking up maybe half a metre to the left of a 2-3m wide stretch of tarmac and you’re hitting the bell so that they “are not surprised” rather than just riding on by?

Just out for a ride this afternoon on the Northumberland coast path, saw a pedestrian ahead and dinged my bell. Turned out he was blind. I've no real idea what that must be like, but I could imagine he was grateful for the warning not to make sudden changes of direction.

Not anti bike at all, just see it from another perspective. I’ve never felt the need to toot anyone but coming round a blind bend on a country road I think a less obnoxious horn would be a handy thing to alert people of your presence.

This, I actually do this. Surprising to some, perhaps, but there are many, many roads where being able to see more than a car or two’s length in many places is actually a thing! One road, the Fosse Way, being a Roman Road is fairly straight in places, but it’s in the South Cotswolds, so has valleys, and in one place the road suddenly drops down between very high banks, with room for only one vehicle, with a slight curve, then a very sharp right-hand bend that drops even more. As I go down, and even going up, I have my lights on, and use my horn. Not only can you not see anyone on a bike at all, you can’t even see other vehicles, not even a tractor and trailer!
There are a fair number of similar roads within a few miles that I’m just not happy about driving along anymore, on one of them I was on my bike, came around a sharpish bend that was dropping downhill to find a car completely filling the road! Fortunately, right at that point the bank dropped enough I was able to swing into it as the car went past and back onto the lane right behind it!
Honestly, to this day I can’t quite believe I actually got away with doing that.
A couple of toots on the horn would help other road users immensely, in particular walkers, cyclists and horse riders.

My car isn’t that big, but it completely fills many of these lanes, on a bike or on foot, it’s necessary to pretty much climb into the hedge or up a bank - I’ve had to do it; anything that encourages a driver to give a warning can only be a good thing.