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lol
MY aggression ? haha You're a funny guy.
£35K ?? pull the other one
a base spec Hilux is that sort of money, made in the millions and able to share it's development and manufacturing costs with the massive number of other Toyota's made.
This Grenadire is one vehicle, expensively engineered by an (expensive) consultant, and made in a factory all on it's own.
At anything less than £55k they'll be loosing money on each and every one they sell.......
Your horn is there to announce your presence to other road users.
They have added a specific short “toot” function so that cyclists don’t feel threatened when it’s used .
I utterly fail to see why that causes the vitriol seen here.
For once, and probably the only time :-), I agree. Not sure what the toot sounds like but if it is a polite noise it will work in same way as the polite noise my bike bell makes.
Coming up behind people walking, polite bell ring, they are then aware of me and say thank you as I pass them rather than me just riding past and catching them by surprise.
I can't actually see many drivers using it though as it would mean a level of respect to cyclists which is not common for most drivers is it. The drivers who use it will be the ones that already slow down a bit, give loads of room, don't pass on blind corners etc,.
**** me, what a couple of fun sponges.
Lol! That's so good, it's almost art.
Is it some kind of fun noise too?
On second thoughts, I'm in if it's this:
Or possibly some French dude shouting 'Allez, allez!'
I've got one to go on my bike
The drivers who use it will be the ones that already slow down a bit, give loads of room, don’t pass on blind corners etc,.
So, the ones unlikely to be driving a Grenadier?
Folk go on line this car is another posh 4x4 for footballers wife wannabes.
It’s absolutely not.
It’s more like a tractor with a comfy body on top.
It’s a serious tool to replace defender
It’s a serious tool to replace defender
Most people driving the newer defenders around here appear to fit the posh 4x4 description, so I predict that the main market is for serious tools, rather than being one. Working 4x4s are older defenders or hilux type things this way.
It’s a defender for serious tools
It’s more like a tractor with a comfy body on top.
It’s a serious tool to replace defender
Well that was the design brief but it's suffered serious scope creep.
Is there anything worth reading on pages 2,3,4 of this thread, say I say the socks thread was a 2/10 for worthiness, how does this compare?
Folk go on line this car is another posh 4×4 for footballers wife wannabes.
It’s absolutely not.
It’s more like a tractor with a comfy body on top.
It’s a serious tool to replace defender
LOL
No one has driven the production model, there will be more in London than the rest of the UK
What on earth is this for? You drive up behind a cyclist, you give them a "toot". What then do you expect them to do? And what do you do if they don't?
You should expect them to do absolutely nothing. Carry on as before. It's on you to overtake properly at the next safe opportunity. And FFS they already know you're there. So what is this button going to add to the world except to make driving even worse among folk who are already dangerous enough?
I have a pretty relaxed attitude and am no militant but "friendly toot" my arse. I can't see any good in this.
Its only mitigating factor is that they won't sell many of these monstrosities.
Interior makes sense to me, but I spend my days driving an old defender and tractor.
I'm just waiting on them doing a super cab pickup or something like my 130 as I don't want the fuel cans in the cab and it needs to fit fenceposts in.
People like myself aren't a big market, but there isn't a lot of choice for something like this either.
What on earth is this for? You drive up behind a cyclist, you give them a “toot”. What then do you expect them to do? And what do you do if they don’t?
You should expect them to do absolutely nothing. Carry on as before. It’s on you to overtake properly at the next safe opportunity. And FFS they already know you’re there.
The point is you may not know they are already there. Just as people walking may not know I am close behind them so a polite ring of bell let's them know so it is not a shock when I ride past. Pretty much everyone says thank you.
That is all in theory though and in reality it is fairly pointless as a car is a lot noisier than my bike and I can always hear cars behind me from quite a way back and as I said before the drivers who would care enough to use this feature are not the drivers who you need to know are behind you.
There may be a few
drivers who would care enough to use this feature
but in that context "feature" is not just the button but how it's used. I think cyclists' concern is about how the existence of this red button might contribute to the negative behaviour of so many others, who I think it is very unlikely will use it in this way.
Just so long as the cable used to wire up the tooter is of sufficient audiophile quality, I don’t see what the issue is.
There is one cable for the toot horn function in forward gears and another for the same function in reverse gear.
Serious question here:
No one has driven the production model, there will be more in London than the rest of the UK
Is that the case for Defenders, Hi-lux’s etc…? Not looking for an argument - does anyone have some stats on this…?
For once, and probably the only time :-), I agree. Not sure what the toot sounds like but if it is a polite noise it will work in same way as the polite noise my bike bell makes.
Coming up behind people walking, polite bell ring, they are then aware of me and say thank you as I pass them rather than me just riding past and catching them by surprise.
Exactly. And while we're at it I hope we're all tooting our horns as we approach blind bends and hump back bridges to alert people on the other side of you approaching? That's Advanced Motoring technique there. All it is is something to alert people to your presence and give them notice you're coming. It's not an instruction or order to take any action, just an awareness thing. This is nothing new and is ultimately the prime purpose of having a horn fitted to your car in the first place. Its law to have a functioning horn on your car...not so you can tell someone you thing they're a **** if they pull out on you, but to alert others to your presence and increase overall awareness out on the busy roads and ultimately improve safety. I really struggle to see how some people are struggling with this concept? Seems a pretty good idea to me. I've always tooted as I approach a blind bend or hump back bridge, but wouldn't toot a cyclist because I know their first reaction is likely to be some hand gesture aimed at me. But what a nice world it would be if I were to toot a cyclist on a tight country road and they gave a nice 'thank you' wave back.
Tooting your horn at blind corners and so on is correct usage. tooting behind cyclists is not and serves no purpose but " get out of my way pleb"
wobbliscvott - damn right you get a signal of disapproval because its incorrect usage of the horn saying - get out of my way pleb
Well that was the design brief but it’s suffered serious scope creep.
Has it? Seems to be pretty much what was promised when the first teaser video's came out. Sure there will be a long and expensive accessory list for people to spec it up if they really want to spend serious money...but fundamentally it's got the suspension and 4x4 set up that was promised and all the fundamental off roady stuff. They may have tarted up the interior a bit bt that's just cheap tatt and hardly 'scope creep'. Just bolt on stuff borrowed from the BMW parts bin and others. And these days people do want some niceties even in their 'work' vehicles. Seen a modern day tractor? Got A/C and kick ass stereo's and everything these days.
get out of my way pleb”
If your horn said this it would be pretty impressive but also it'd be an MOT failure
Not sure what the toot sounds like but if it is a polite noise it will work in same way as the polite noise my bike bell makes.
Coming up behind people walking, polite bell ring, they are then aware of me and say thank you as I pass them rather than me just riding past and catching them by surprise.
Just so you know I don't find 90% of bike bell use polite either! I live right next to a canal tow path and they are more often than not rung far too late and with exactly the same "let me past" message. Other than people with headphones in I've never found a need to ring a bell to make walkers aware of my presence except at tunnels/bridges etc - but I'm usually quite happy to hang behind people rather than blast past.
sirromj
Is there anything worth reading on pages 2,3,4 of this thread
Don't worry, luket and kerley have start the same discussion up again, so you can start from page 5.
Sorry, I skipped pages 2,3 and 4.
There won't be anything worth reading though as it is split between people thinking a polite warning is the same as a blast on the horn and others thinking it is just courteous.
Other than people with headphones in I’ve never found a need to ring a bell to make walkers aware of my presence except at tunnels/bridges etc – but I’m usually quite happy to hang behind people rather than blast past.
I ride on gravel roads most of the time and pretty much every ride there are people walking along not really thinking about bikes coming past so making them aware (when I am a good distance away) is polite and let's them know I am coming. Pre bell they would sometimes jump in shock when I was by the side of them.
I'm surprised no one's suggested they drive one up behind their own TdF team and see if the toot helps them go a bit quicker!
wobbliscott
Full MemberI really struggle to see how some people are struggling with this concept? Seems a pretty good idea to me.
I think this is the whole thing... Nobody really struggles with the concept of the "polite toot" which people will use considerately and thoughtfully in a way that provides a net benefit for motorist and cyclist. It's a perfectly lovely fantasy.
But in the real world that'll happen, ooh, 1% of the time at most? In practice they've put a picture of a bike on a horn and that will mostly encourage people to honk horns at bikes. It'll be a get-out-of-my-way button way, way more often than it's a "polite toot"
When you post something hinting at directional audio cables and no one cares…
I really struggle to see how some people are struggling with this concept? Seems a pretty good idea to me.
because this is not what horns should be used for, its dangerous and adds to the entitlement of many car drivers
There is NO such thing as a polite toot behind a cylist. You should not be doing this
This is from the highway code guidence
A horn should only be used when warning someone of any danger due to another vehicle or any other kind of danger, and not to indicate your annoyance.
So you should NOT be using your horn behind a cyclist
There is NO such thing as a polite toot behind a cylist. You should not be doing this
Are we back to opinion vs fact or was that another topic?
Its opinion backed by the highway code. See the guidence above.
Is it a horn though. Has anybody actually heard what it sounds like and how loud it is in real life, stood in front of the vehicle?
If I cycled around blowing an air horn at walkers that is very different to me clicking on my mechanical bell...
It does not matter what it sounds like. the horn is there if someone is in danger and if the car driver driving properly they will not put the cyclist in danger.
Well they could have avoided all this negativity by having a green button.
Letting someone know you are behind them or approaching them IS letting them know of a potential danger.
Plenty sound a quick toot on the horn behind me and I appreciate it.
Maybe take the massive chip off your shoulder and get over the fact that not everyone hates you and some are just being polite.
And I don’t care what the Highway Code says , it’s not law and is open to interpretation, hence why it is so vague
This is from the highway code guidence
A horn should only be used when warning someone of any danger due to another vehicle or any other kind of danger, and not to indicate your annoyance.
So you should NOT be using your horn behind a cyclist
And a car coming up behind a cyclist is not a potential danger???? I think it is. So yes you should and can be using your horn to toot a cyclist...its what the advanced motoring bods teach...and most of what's in the Highway Code is not law...its the hghway CODE, not the Highway LAW. Better tooting your horn to warn a cyclist of your approach just so they know your coming rather than the way its used today i.e. as an audible way to stick a finger up at someone who's p-d you off...often sounded after the event when the danger has passed.
Seriously what harm could it do if everyone realised the meaning of it and appreciated it..you never know there might be fewer cyclsits knocked off their bikes.....God forbid if we arm people with more situational awareness!!
There is NO such thing as a polite toot behind a cylist.
Have you never been passed by a mate when they're in a car and you're on a bike?
Pretty easy to tell a friendly toot from a mate.
And a car coming up behind a cyclist is not a potential danger????
Note the guidance says Danger not potential danger - and if the car is being driven properly its should not even be a potential danger
I am always astonished how anti cyclist this forum can be
Its so clearly against the guidance to use a horn in this way
Are you really saying you are a potential danger to every cyclist you pass? Jeepers you need your license taken away ASAP
Rubbish . Your simply trying to justify your nonsense.
Your simply trying to justify your nonsense.
Oh the ironing....
Brads - highway code makes it clear the horn is only to be used if there is a danger. Now are you a danger to every cyclist you pass?
If you cannot pass a cylist safely then hand back your license. Using a horn in this way is clearly against the highway code
Blimey, I came here for a bit of light relief from speaker cables.
Oh the ironing
Explain
And the Highway Code is a guide.
Not one right minded person should see a problem with a considerate driver letting cyclists know they are approaching or are behind them in some situations.
Your pretty much disagreeing for the sake of it.
Plenty sound a quick toot on the horn behind me and I appreciate
Bollocks do they. You don't half post some shite.
Anyone who toots their horn when approaching a cyclist is a bellend.
Bollocks do they. You don’t half post some shite.
Seriously , stop talking pish.
Your telling me no one has ever sounded a horn just to let you know they are there?
If not maybe it’s because they know you.
In 15 years of cycling 9 miles each way through Black Country traffic, it has never happened.
Perhaps it's because I'm not a ****.
Never no. I have had people toot "GET OUT OF MY WAY PLEB" but never a freiendly toot no.
And the Highway Code is a guide.
some of it is law, some is guidance, not following the guidence is poor driving and can lead to prosecution
Not one right minded person should see a problem with a considerate driver letting cyclists know they are approaching or are behind them in some situations.
No considerate driver blows their horn behind a cyclist. Its dangerous.
I give up.
Bullshit overload and the arrogant tits have arrived
Complain away . The worlds not listening but your echo chamber is
Perhaps it’s because I’m not a ****.
Somehow I doubt that
" he's a boring troll TJ, I should know better after the last time he got upset.
Actually scxc - I don't think he is. Brads is a man with a very different world view to me and the multiple world views on here make it valuable
I know from experience if you have a minority view on here then its hard not to get annoyed
We'll disagree on that
He outed himself a while ago.
sc xc - a troll is someone who seeks out deliberately to wind yup others. I don't see Brad doing that just expressing his view forcefully
Don’t worry, luket and kerley have start the same discussion up again, so you can start from page 5.
Haven't we just?
Sorry!
TJ & SCXC - I think you'll find that quite a few people on this thread disagree with your views on this issue.
indeed a few do. shame they are wrong both in law and in practise 🙂
I think we need to define the competency of the cyclist in question,
A lockdown noob wobbling everywhere with no awareness needs a full fog horn blast whereas a Colnago Rapha buffer needs a toot and 'STRAVA!' shouted outta the window.
pedlad
Full Member
I’m surprised no one’s suggested they drive one up behind their own TdF team and see if the toot helps them go a bit quicker!
About 8 years ago I was riding the Paris Roubaix ride the day before and an Astana team car turned on the sector. After about 5 minutes of sitting behind middle aged heros (yes, me) whoever was in the car put their music on through the external loudspeaker - Highway to Hell.
Bastards.
Funny though 😊
No considerate driver blows their horn behind a cyclist. Its dangerous.
Agree, but again, has anybody actually heard the toot? Is it a quite and more polite noise in comparison to a horn as presumably it is not just another horn as there is already a horn for horn stuff?
And clearly you don't need to let a cyclist know you are behind them but a case where it could be used if if you are following a group of cyclists who are spread across the whole road then you could give a polite toot to let them know you will be passing and they could organise themselves to more easily allow it as even going completely onto the other side of road means you are close to the outside rider. Just road manners from both parties and using an actual horn in that scenario would be aggressive and wrong.
And the Highway Code is a guide.
Not one right minded person should see a problem with a considerate driver letting cyclists know they are approaching or are behind them in some situations.
Your pretty much disagreeing for the sake of it.
Strange how I don't remember a driver needing to "toot" at me ever when riding a bike. Polite or not.
Only dangerous drivers use a horn like that. Because a horn is only to advise of danger.
... thus spake the non-driver.
That's not what a horn is for at all. It's to alert others of your presence.
And again, it is not a horn. The car has a horn and also has the toot button so you have to think that it won't be like a horn (not as loud, not as aggressive sounding)
Seems pretty clear cut to me.
112
The horn. Use only while your vehicle is moving and you need to warn other road users of your presence. Never sound your horn aggressively. You MUST NOT use your hornwhile stationary on the road
when driving in a built-up area between the hours of 11.30 pm and 7.00 amexcept when another road user poses a danger.
Read the link I put up to the highway code also note the word NEED. there is simply no need to do this
fortunatly most folk do not think like the "get out of my way" lot on here and I have only very rarely been tooted at and that has always been a "get out of my way pleb"
Its stupid dangerous and entitled
It really does amaze me how anti bike so many folk are on here
Maybe it will have a recording of Alan Carr saying “Hiya!!!”
Poop poop went Mr Toad
Regardless of whether tooting the horn behind a cyclist is a dick move or not, what’s the cyclist meant to do upon hearing it? If the answer is nothing, which it should be, then what’s the point of it? I only need alerting if you’re about to plough into me, and even then, there’s probably nothing I can do about it.
It’s the same conversation about riding with headphones, what exactly am I missing out in riding on the road with headphones?
Not anti bike at all, just see it from another perspective. I've never felt the need to toot anyone but coming round a blind bend on a country road I think a less obnoxious horn would be a handy thing to alert people of your presence. Maybe that's just coming from an industrial setting where 3 tonnes of forklift pootling at 5mph can still cause untold carnage if someone isn't paying attention to their surroundings, hence the toot as you approach doorways or blind corners.
Regardless of whether tooting the horn behind a cyclist is a dick move or not, what’s the cyclist meant to do upon hearing it? If the answer is nothing, which it should be, then what’s the point of it?
What are people walking along a gravel road supposed to do when I ring my bell - nothing. But they appreciate me letting them know I will be passing them. It really is that simple.
squirrel king - blind corners yes - a good use of the horn. Behind a cyclist is not the correct use of a horn in the highway code
the attitudes on here are very Mr Toad
What are people walking along a gravel road supposed to do when I ring my bell – nothing. But they appreciate me letting them know I will be passing them. It really is that simple.
It's not how I see it at all. I ring my bell on a narrow shared path so that people know I'm approaching from behind and likely passing by pretty close. I'm not sure I want that to become accepted practice on the road...
That Beep would be very handy to shake up some of the dozy bastards riding along single track roads on the likes of the NC500 and in the Hebrides.
And the Highway Code is a guide.
Yes but not a to be taken lightly guide as you seem to be implying here, and in it there are many references that begin with the word 'Should' which itself is not a demand, but a suggestion of actions carried out based upon studies of what can go wrong.
But there are also many, in fact most sections that start with the word 'Must' as in you must.
Just to clarify 🙂
scotroutes - Is that the ones in big 4WD and campers? I find them the worst 🙂