You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more
its strange how you homed in on that aspect…
You bought it up. 😉
Yeah your probably right it’s wrong of me to tar the school system/teachers…maybe it’s just the school my kid goes to…so I apologise to all..peace n love
Fair play, and I'm wrong to A - define your job as "digging holes", and B - wrong to suggest that there's anything wrong with that even were that solely your job. I get defensive when people make sweeping generalisations about teachers as, in my experience, those generalisations are born of ignorance. Despite the "generous pay", despite the holidays, despite the "cushy job", teachers are leaving the profession in droves because they'd rather work in the "real world" (whatever that means) than carry on living this easy life everyone assumes they have. If parents empower their children to devalue education, schools don't work - teachers have no mandate if parents tell their kids they don't have to work at it.
MrsG is a teacher - since she left Uni many years ago and teaches almost exclusively to later years Business and Economics. There are lots of highlights - getting students from her comp to LSE or top Unis or meeting former students locally in their 20’s - 30’s who still remember and comment on her classes.
It’s a relentless job though especially for core subjects and primary teaching. I have massive respect for those teachers and how much it’s a vocation for many as much as a job.
I have great respect for some teachers with what they deal with.
As a child struggling with being dislexic, not learning how children should. Battling with things like being told by a headmaster that he "didn't have that dislexia disease in his school". Constantly being punished for not being able to regurgitate the subject parrot fashion because I didn't learn the convenient way, being humiliated for it.
They would promote themselves with achievements I had outside of school like it was something they had done. I have no good memories from school.
It took me quite a few years of working before wanting to go back to college on my own terms due to dislike of the ways of the education system and being able to deal with the sort of a'holes that that thought that word count essays in a subject that was not language focused was something to behold.
^ this is awful, but how long ago was that
It was 80s/90s - the results cascade and it's understandable why there are disillusioned parents that can't help their child because the system failed them.
teachers have no mandate if parents tell their kids they don’t have to work at it.
This ^
It should be a 3 way situation between schools/teachers, students and parents.
But so often parents don't engage or actively avoid any responsibility for what their children do in school.
Currently trying hard to get one of my tutees to do any work (not just homework, but engaging in lessons, revision for mocks just gone, not being late to every lesson, truancy, etc.)
Unfortunately the parent is totally not on board, says things like 'I didn't get any good grades at school, so I don't see why he needs them.' It takes me, or the HoY, about 10 phone calls to actually get through, they never come to meetings or parents evevings.
Most recent head-banging-against-wall moment was them saying 'I don't care what grades he gets. He'll probably do ok when he leaves.' With help like that who needs enemies?!
With help like that who needs enemies?!
I think you need to think about where the parents has come from and why they may think the way they do.
I think you need to think about where the parents has come from and why they may think the way they do.
I do believe me. I had a shite time at school, bullied (with school turning a blind eye), some terrible teachers - Told I would never amount to anything on one occasion.
Luckily I had supportive parents.
I actively got into teaching to try and right some of the wrongs I encountered.
But...some parents behaviour often comes across as actively sabotaging their children's chances, just cos they didn't have a good time at school. Makes me sad and mad!
I think you need to think about where the parents has come from and why they may think the way they do.
You think teachers need to parent the parents as well as teach their kids? 🙂
You think teachers need to parent the parents as well as teach their kids?
No. Teachers need to accept that their peers have failed a lot of parents.
.
No. Teachers need to accept that their peers have failed a lot of parents.
Or the parents of those parents told their kids not to bother with education.
Either way, given that we're already talking in this thread about teachers having a greater workload than there are hours in the day to fulfil, what do you want teachers to do about parents who won't support their children in education, especially given that parents have no responsibility other than to make their kids turn up (and not all of them care to do that)?
what do you want teachers to do about parents who won’t support their children in education, especially given that parents have no responsibility other than to make their kids turn up (and not all of them care to do that)?
Probably try to engage earlier with the kids that are struggling rather than the display what you are showing @pondo, that is the teachers being prejudice, defensive and causing and accepting that in some cases it is the system that has failed people.
@pondo - You should have engaged with your Y11s when they were at Primary school. FFS. If you join the real world I guess you will have plenty of extra time or something to do better engaging with something, blah, blah...
Probably try to engage earlier with the kids that are struggling rather than the display what you are showing @pondo, that is the teachers being prejudice, defensive and causing and accepting that in some cases it is the system that has failed people
They ARE trying to engage - but if the parents are telling the child education's not important or not needed, if the parents aren't encouraging and helping their child with schooling because they don't care about it, what then?
Teachers are broadly* pretty conscientious and will want to help their pupils do well, because that (and holidays 🙂 ) is why they became teachers - what's more, their pay is performance-related. So the idea that teachers just DGAS about the stupid or lazy ones is broadly* wide of the mark.
* There will be outliers, there always are.
@pondo – You should have engaged with your Y11s when they were at Primary school. FFS. If you join the real world I guess you will have plenty of extra time or something to do better engaging with something, blah, blah…
Nuts, isn't it - I'm not a teacher, I'm IN the "real world", whatever that is. I don't have to work with colleagues too afraid to go home because they're being verbally, physically or sexually abused, I don't have to work with colleagues who don't have enough to eat or can't afford to buy food, I don't have to work with colleagues who live with peers who tell them not to bother working hard as it's all a waste of time. My "real world" is a whole metric shit-ton simpler and easier than the mythically unreal world of education.
This has just gone to show the point I'm trying to make of the kids that struggle in the system. Blame someone else rather than actually accept there is a problem.
Blame someone else rather than actually accept there is a problem.
Oh yes, the system is utterly and completely ****ed and it's got much worse in the last ten years....this is not the teachers fault though, the system is dictated to them!
This has just gone to show the point I’m trying to make of the kids that struggle in the system. Blame someone else rather than actually accept there is a problem.
What do you think the problem is?
What do you think the problem is
It would appear people like you!
It would appear people like you!
I make parents indifferent to education? 🙂
the mythically unreal world of education.
nothing unreal about having a pupil in class that constantly checks their phone because they are worried about mum getting beaten by dad. Teaching could not be further in the real world. Now my past career as a research scientist wasn't remotely in the real world.
I live in a relatively affluent Oxfordshire village. I’m doing just fine.
I work (supply) in early years education in areas of Oxford and Abingdon which are among the most deprived in the country.
What I see is teachers doing their best, kids doing their best, schools doing their best and parents and extended families doing their best. But all are poorly resourced.
Parents and families (and thereby the kids) suffer from multi generational failings - in education, in social care, in relationship and life skills. Limited education and limited life chances and opportunities are (close to) the norm. Bad choices - made with not unrational reasoning given their situations) abound.
Schools lack funds but are expected to be able to educate and support these pupils and their wide range of needs and abilities, and do so incredibly well all things considered - but this is still failing certainly a significant minority and quite possibly the majority of kids in each class.
Some days are horrible as situations arise which show you how blighted lives pass problems from generation to generation.
The teachers and teaching assistants I work with and support are great. The systems (societal and scholastic) that they work within are broken.
I make parents indifferent to education?
No @pondo, you are blaming people who have been failed by the system for not believing in the system that is broken.
I get what you're saying K, but if it was entirely down to the system no-one from disadvantaged backgrounds would ever escape it. But they do, and achieve great things. Why / how? Do you think that even if the parents have been let down by the system in the past (different teachers / governments in different schools in different times), they shouldn't bear some responsibility for trying to get their kids to take the chance they didn't get or take for themselves.
As you said, teachers need to engage with kids but if the kids are somewhere in between and the parents won't push them towards the opportunities being made available, or worse hold them back because of their own experiences, I don't know what teachers should do then?
Undoubtedly there is of course a failing of the system, my wife works in a school and most of the teachers there will say the system is over bureaucratic and substandard, but doesn't stop them trying their hardest every single day. The system won't change overnight, and folks need to get what they can from it rather than let another opportunity pass by while they wait for never.
No @pondo, you are blaming people who have been failed by the system for not believing in the system that is broken.
What I think or do makes rock-all difference - it's been said already, but I'm not a teacher.
I'm a teacher and the earlier posts really made me smile. Thank you.
In true STW style the thread seems to have descended into denigration. I am proud of being who I am and what I do, it is an honour to be allowed to teach and influence young people and I remember this every day and have done so for the past 34 years in the profession. I very seldom get involved in this type of thread but in this instance I will dip in. I'm still not sure if people are trolling but if not I'd suggest that those who have had a difficult time in the past try to see and or find the positives so that their influence upon their children isn't all negative.
yes it does, because you have shown on this thread you are a bully, you aren’t even a teacher!
Please close the thread now. Can we never have a teachers discussion again. They just make me want to quit and I'm close enough as it is.
When I started in my current school there were 12 in the dept. Cost cuts have reduced that to 8.5. we are "inclusive" which effectively means there are pupils in class who need specialist care but it's cheaper to put them in mainstream. The system is borked and we're getting it in the neck from government and parents and the public. Wait until the pay talks start and media start drip feeding how lazy and ****less we are.
yes it does, because you have shown on this thread you are a bully, you aren’t even a teacher!
I apologise that was not directed at teachers, it didn't read as intended.
Being spat on, physically assaulted, sexually assaulted, verbally abused, and having to teach those same pupils that afternoon or the next day, with no consequences for the pupils
Having a child cling to you as they are scared to go home
Dealing with children who have not been fed, washed in days
Dealing with children who have been sexually abused
Dealing with children who have been physically abused
Using your own money to feed neglected children
Meeting a primary school kid at 10pm in Tesco who is not allowed in the house, or is hiding from an abuser
Dealing with screaming and abusive parents
Being followed home by pupils
Not getting your break or lunch as the school is too short staffed
Buy your own computer or laptop, printer, paper and ink to print at home as the school printer is broken (again), or has run out of paper/ink
Dealing which children who have no discipline from parents, bad behavior has no consequence, so they will just laugh in a teachers face (teacher cannot do anything, and their parents will do nothing or some actively reward bad behavior, eg excluded from school trip for assaulting another pupil, parent takes them on a better trip so they dont miss out…)Dealing with children who arguably should not be in mainstream education, but due to policy/lack of funding for special units or LAs, non exclusion policies etc, are allowed to disrupt years of education for the rest of the class
Being pressured for results, having to evidence why pupils who are not in school 1/2 the time do not meet the expected educational stages.
All while trying to provide a rounded education for the whole class, meet the latest learning outcomes (and provide all paperwork to show you have done so). Make sure you do CPDE. Provide extra curricular activities. Go on class trips away (but dont get paid for it)
Buy resources with your own money
Spend weekends and evenings planning lessons to make them engaging and enjoyable for pupils. (and missing time you could spend with your own children)
I know people will say that is poor time management, but if you have been in school 8-5, dealing with work and issues that have to be dealt with, and still have to prepare lessons for tomorrow….
There are also some teachers who work 8:15-3:45, and just dont give a shit. Dont do anything you could be fired for, and its a reasonable job if you just dont care.
You just need to look at the staff retention rates, average was 5 years last time my wife checked. That is not good for staff experience.
The education system seems to survive on the good will of the staff, and enough of them genuinely care for their pupils/well being/education.
Obviously there are terrible teachers, and its not all negative for good teachers who enjoy seeing children progress, but its not just the easy part time job many people make out.
If its so easy/cushy, why do more people not do it?
I have no idea how anybody has the patience to be a teacher, but am incredibly grateful for those who do.
This needs a repost. My Eldest Daughter is a secondary teacher. She tells me some stories about the kids that leave me incredulous. She's a total hero in my eyes.
@pondo yes it does, because you have shown on this thread you are a bully, you aren’t even a teacher! you attack others who have had a different experiences to you. That is why you are part of the problem. You are the type that mock the kid that can’t read aloud to the class because it doesn’t come easy for them.
Well, not easy to respond to a direct attack without swearing, but let's give it a go. 🙂 I fully accept that others have different experiences to me - Mrs Pondo, like any teacher can tell you stories that'll break your heart about kids that want to do well but get no support, and parents who want their kids to succeed but the kids aren't interested, and many different variations along the way. But she'll also tell stories about, say, a kid who's openly defiant or rude or storms out of lessons, for which she is required to set sanctions, in response to which a parent will contact the school and inform them that their child will not be accepting any sanctions, thank you very much. If that's you, and you think I'm bullying you for calling you on it, I can live with that - it's cold comfort that people can be so easily offended when my wife occasionally comes home from work in tears because of the unremitting and uphill shitstorm she has to negotiate on a daily basis.
What surprises me is that it seems like you've had direct experience of the lack of resource and financial support that educators are finding, but still you're blaming the education system, rather than the problems its experiencing? I presume there's nuance in there that I'm missing.
Mrs Pondo was off last week with Covid (and that's another thing teachers have to deal with), going back today to hear the children were "feral" on Friday, their prom night - in her classroom, her computer was hanging off the desk from its cabling, monitors not working, wall displays torn down and a window broken. If you can angle that to clarify how that's my fault, I'm all ears.
You can’t really complain about that when the vast majority of employers don’t offer any sort of canteen, shit or not
You could not have missed the point more.
I really did! I read it as his wife complaining that the food was rubbish for her own lunch! 😀
I really did! I read it as his wife complaining that the food was rubbish for her own lunch! 😀
In the interests of full disclosure, she DOES complain about that! 🙂 But it's secondary - the primary issue for her is filling kids full of crap, and kids on free school meals having no healthy choices.
I think the majority of teachers are wonderful, and I wouldn’t do their job for all the tea in China.
However, have you ever tried to complain about the one bad-apple of a teacher who is a total nightmare? They don’t half circle the wagons. I was told total lies - “no one has ever complained about this before”. Ha! My son had actually left the school before I found out that was a total and utter lie from another parent who had also tried to complain.
I was left with the feeling that like some professions, teachers protect their own, whether they’re right or wrong. And we ended up on the wrong side of a totally useless cow of a teacher who caused incalculable harm to a kid who had enjoyed school up until then. That tends to sour your outlook.
You can't say that round here! You'll get slammed because it's not teachers fault or something.
.
.
If that’s you, and you think I’m bullying you for calling you on it, I can live with that
@pondo - No that is not me, there you go again! I was the one trying to get on but being punished for not being able to write at the required speed in time for end of class. Put in lower maths set because my English wasn't high enough (hnd eng maths was OK)!? Repeatedly made to stand at the front of the music class to recite, because you were "causing trouble" by not being able to read at the speed of the music or not being able to remember the order of the words and being sent to the headmaster for it. How about the language teacher mocking you for not being able to write a phrase on the whiteboard in French when I could barely write it in English. Is that what your getting at?
How about you imagine still having to read every letter of every word, sometimes twice to make sure it's what you think it is and make sense of it? Yeah different times...
I've not defended parents that won't support their kids, all I said was think!
K, isn't it time you moved on, those teachers are likely dead. I had a horrible teacher who used to grab your hair and poke you in the chest...horrible **** he was....years later my mum looked after him when she was a Macmillan nurse..I told her to withhold his morphine...she didn't though.
If that’s you, and you think I’m bullying you for calling you on it, I can live with that
@pondo – No that is not me, there you go again!
"There I go again"? Ok, maybe I didn't make it clear enough - if that's NOT you, you are not the person I'm levelling criticism at. Am I still a bully? 🙂
I’ve not defended parents that won’t support their kids, all I said was think!
Cool - well, those are the parents I'm being critical of.
I'm in week3 of the holiday enjoying rural Ireland. The only blot on the landscape is needing to finish my 6week BGE topic on planets and planet formation.