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My fil lives in Algeria. He's mid-60s, not long retired, he's been married to a local lady for maybe 15 hears. He has (still, as far as we know) a chunky french defined benefits pension.
He has been having some money issues, which have now culminated in his asking my wife to lend him some money (£5k), to tide him over (the claim is that his french bank account has been locked as he lives abroad). This seems feasible, but he's not particularly close to my wife, and is a proud man, so we would very much be the lender of last resort.
We can afford to lend him the money, but we're concerned that this may be some form of scam he's fallen for. Obviously it's hard to judge someone you know as gullible enough to fall for a romance/Ponzi/investment fraud, and even harder (with my wife having a not-super-close relationship with him) to push him on the finer details of his situation.
We're calling him tomorrow so we are comfortable it's not a scam on us, but what questions would you be asking/how would you steer the conversation to figure out if this is actually a needed "tide me over" payment Vs money being thrown down the drain?
Ask for proof of locked account and why ?
You're thinking of sending £5k to someone else's bank account.
Who you don't know.
Overseas.
Because someone you think you know can't access their own bank account.
Just think about that.
And then don't do it.
£5k? How long is he expecting his bank account to be locked for? Ask for pics of bank letters? Or emails forwarded for any messages from the bank?
It's an awkward conversation but it is in everyone's interests that you are sure he isn't being scammed before sending money.
If my father had needed money I would have given it to him if I had it as a repayment for financial and other help over the years. There is no point giving him cash though if his money has run out because he has been scammed and it's just more for the scammer.
I might be able to scrape together £5k to lend a relative but I'd need to know how long for and how exactly they intend paying it back. I don't think that asking both of those questions would be infringing on his "pride". Just butter him up with some "Dad - you've always been so great at handling your money" chat first.
Just talking with him about what’s happened and why and what the loaned money is for might be enough
if you’ve ever had to withdraw large sums of cash from the bank the teller will often chat about what the money is for. It seems like small talk but it’s a deliberate technique that helps prevent scams. People who are being scammed are often being hurried, embarrassed, or harangued by the scammer and in that state are thinking more about what they are required to do to end that pressured situation than about why they’re being asked to do. it puts them in a state of denial and simply recounting what they are doing, or being asked to do, slows things down and gives people a chance to see what’s actually going on. Just saying it out loud is often enough for people to see what’s really going on.
i think if you’re talking to him a useful thing to glean is whether his wife is aware of / party to whatever the problem is, and the solution to it (ie asking you for the loan). Can you even talk to her about it. If he’s hiding the situation from her for instance that would be a tell. Might indicate pressure from a third party, might indicate something like gambling or another addiction.
You’re thinking of sending £5k to someone else’s bank account.
Who you don’t know.
We do know my fil and are calling him tomorrow to ensure it's him
.Ask for proof of locked account and why
Ask for pics of bank letters? Or emails forwarded for any messages from the bank?
It’s an awkward conversation but it is in everyone’s interests that you are sure he isn’t being scammed before sending money.
This is the tricky thing.. we don't want to come across as not believing/trusting him, but our concern is he may be being scammed..
I might be able to scrape together £5k to lend a relative but I’d need to know how long for and how exactly they intend paying it back. I don’t think that asking both of those questions would be infringing on his “pride”.
Happy to do that but if he's been taken for a scam he may have answers to that which aren't necessarily right? That's our concern
My mil has fallen for a few scams like this (and others sadly). I'd have no qualms whatsoever about quizzing your fil in great depth about what's happening and why, whether or not that makes him feel unbelieved. Better all round to make sure it's legit than not. From the above it sounds really dodgy to be honest.
There is no point giving him cash though if his money has run out because he has been scammed and it’s just more for the scammer.
This is our concern
Just talking with him about what’s happened and why and what the loaned money is for might be enough
Great tip on flipping the focus (to the end of the loan rather than the start)..
whether his wife is aware of / party to whatever the problem is, and the solution to
This is where it gets tricky. He has a very strained relationship with his wife. He has told us that she's rinced his savings (he told us this a few months back), which is the original source of the issues. This may be true. We feel like it's unlikely they'll be together in 5 years time, but it's hard to be certain if the money problems are her honest doing (she's a business lady and may have made some bad investments) be her dishonest doing (rince him for everything before the split) Vs his doing
How has this been communicated so far, text or WhatsApp I guess? Is it definitely him i.e using your names/nicknames etc and general chit chat?
I'm not sure if this has been mentioned already, but if you are the lender of last resort then I would also want to talk to those further up the chain to see if they have already been asked or have even been lent money. Nothing about this is sounding good and I wouldn't want to be lending the money unless I was also prepared to lose it (which for some close relatives I would be, but not for someone I rarely talk to)
Also, the fact that you are calling tomorrow to talk to him implies that the request didn't come by voice already. I can't imagine genuinely asking someone for that sort of sum without talking to them directly. Really doesn't sound great at the moment
You’re thinking of sending £5k to someone else’s bank account.
Who you don’t know.
We do know my fil and are calling him tomorrow to ensure it’s him
I think the point being made was that if your FiLs account has been locked, you'd perhaps be sending money to another person's account (e.g. FiLs wife) who you don't know...?
Remember also with AI it isn't too difficult to spoof someones voice in a phone message (not a conversation of course). What I've done before with transfers I've been unsure of is to transfer a small amount (50usd or so) with a specific message in the communication line and then got them to tell me the communication before transferring the balance. That way I am at least sure that they are in control of the receiving account.
I think the point being made was that if your FiLs account has been locked, you’d perhaps be sending money to another person’s account (e.g. FiLs wife) who you don’t know…?
I read that as the FIL's account in France was locked, but not the one where he was living now
How has this been communicated so far, text or WhatsApp I guess
All WhatsApp which is why we're calling tomorrow. The messages don't seem out of sorts, and Tbf he does know we're in a foreign country on holiday (timing could be better..), so that may be the reason. Even so, alarm bells are ringing loud and clear with me hence the thread.
if you are the lender of last resort then I would also want to talk to those further up the chain to see if they have already been asked or have even been lent money.
Good call, we'll try that
I wouldn’t want to be lending the money unless I was also prepared to lose it
We can afford to lose it, but we would rather not. The bigger thing is we don't want the money just thrown away, if he's being scammed. His pension should be (unless there's some way he's sold it, we'll find out tomorrow) such that he can pay us back in 2 or 3 months, but in a way that makes it even less likely he needs the cash.
I think the point being made was that if your FiLs account has been locked, you’d perhaps be sending money to another person’s account (e.g. FiLs wife) who you don’t know…?
Which would be even more insane!
I read that as the FIL’s account in France was locked, but not the one where he was living now
This just raised an interesting thought. Fil account in France is locked, we've been asked to send money to his wife's account in Algeria. The account details came through way to fast (like, message 3), so maybe she's got him in some way we hadn't realised. Will dig into that more to tomorrow
I had an acquaintance ask me for a loan of a grand. . Long story short after contacting a mutual friend i found out he had borrowed money all over the place and not paid it back. I said no obviously.
With regard to lending money, the question I ask myself is “would I be happy to give this as a gift?”
That serves two purposes.
First is that by framing it like that, if it doesn’t get repaid, then I’m ok with that because hey, it was a gift.
Second is that I need to know enough information that I’m happy where it’s going and what it’s going to be used for. After all, if I’m paying then I’ve got a right to know.
OP, if you give this money to your FiL you and your wife have every right to know exactly where it’s going, so that you can assess how likely you are to get it back. If your FiL isn’t happy with that, then it really is his problem, not yours. From the little information you’ve given, it doesn’t sound like he’s been the greatest parent to your wife anyway.
If you do decide to proceed i would be very firm in that this is all the spare money you have. Do not believe amy promised repayments with interest when a deal comes through.
I would also do a staged payment thing. With receipt of monies to a bank account or even PayPal that only he has access to. Not some random Algerian business women who is Clearly rubbish at business as they have no money in their 60s.
Your FIL should sell one of his own kidney.
I mean he has a wife there so how is he supposed to feed her etc if he needs to borrow money now.
It's a scam.
This just raised an interesting thought. Fil account in France is locked, we’ve been asked to send money to his wife’s account in Algeria. The account details came through way to fast (like, message 3),
That's not an interesting thought. That's a five alarm fire.
A, don't lend him the money.
B, warn the folks you do know who don't have a friendly internet forum full of folks to tell them not to send money to a random - doubtless previously unknown - account.
C, if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck...
D, think about, if you have the details, contacting his bank and telling them you think he may be the victim of a fraud.
"Dad, would it be better if we bought you a plane ticket to Marseille so you can go to the bank/social security and work this out once and for all?"
Having said that - banks are derisking at the moment and shutting accounts of customers based in dodgy places. Also, would he not have an Algerian bank account to which is pension is paid...?
My immediate thoughts,
1) Banks don't lock out accounts unless they have concerns. Why isn't he talking to the bank to resolve it? I've had my bank account frozen multiple times, I've called them and gone "yeah, I'm holiday" and they've replied "terribly sorry sir, give us about ten minutes and then try again."
One time I'd unknowingly dropped my card and they locked everything because they saw two transactions (card and phone) implausibly far apart geographically. That was actually fraud. They cancelled and reissued the card, re-enabled the account on the spot.
If he can't access his account then I'd hazard that either the bank think a fraud is imminent, the bank already believes there's been fraudulent activity, or it's a cover story and someone has already emptied it.
2) Who needs £5k to "tide them over"? I owe a couple of grand to a good friend but there were extenuating circumstances surrounding this. Giving money to tide someone over would raise the question "once they've been tided over and that money's run out, what happens in September?"
3) Why you? I borrowed money from a mate because he proactively offered when I told him my floor had fallen out and my car was bollocksed, I didn't go around cap-in-hand hitting up family and friends on spec for a five grand loan. Had he not been kind enough to go "yeah, I've got that" I would have, well, taken out a loan like everyone else does.
You need to have a conversation with them to get more information of course, there could be a crisis which makes it all plausible but 4) you already know that this stinks of a scam otherwise you wouldn't have started this thread.
With the information presented, the ONLY way I'd be saying yes is if I could afford to never see it again. And even then I'd be wary because if it is a scam then you'd be doing them more harm than good. Scammers know full well that they can ask for money if the mark is sitting there going "well, I've already given them £5k, another grand to finally make good is probably worth it" and the deeper they go the more desperate they get.
See also, weddings. I'm £10k out of pocket, what's another £500 for a bouquet or use-once throw cushions or some other shit. Have you seen the price of sugared almonds in a little bag?! Bastards, I hope their bollocks turn square and fester at the corners.
Who needs £5k to “tide them over”?
Especially as presumably if he’s pension age he has no rent / mortgage to pay and it doesn’t strike me as the highest cost of living…
it could be a scam where his what’s app account has been compromised (either to some dodgy unknown on the net or someone he knows out there), or he could be being manipulated by someone to send the messages, but one way of another I’d be 99% sure it’s a scam.
Quite.
I would like to think that... So, OK, I'm kinda terrible at stuff like keeping track of usernames on STW. I've had people post similar to "why do you have a vendetta against me?" and I'm thinking, I've never heard of you before in my life, what are you on about? But people that I know, I'm pretty shit hot at recognising their e-handwriting. I used to do it way back in programming classes at College, I could pick up a piece of code and usually tell you with a reasonable degree of confidence who'd written it. Or on the messaging system, someone pretending to be a girl as a wind-up, "bugger off Ste, I know that's you, no-one else puts a space -before- a comma."
So I'd like to think that if I suddenly started getting weird messages from someone close to me, I'd spot it pretty quickly. I was chatting to an old friend online a couple of nights ago and I knew almost instantly that something was 'off,' her phrasing and cadence, well, wasn't her. After a bit of prodding it transpired that she hadn't been hacked but she'd just found out that she was being scheduled for open heart surgery and was trying to pretend everything was normal when it wasn't. I could... "hear" it in the text, if that makes any sense? If I were to get a text from my mum going "hi it's your mum" I'd be immediately suspicious because that's not a sentence she's ever had cause to write in the history of ever.
So, OP: how does this "feel"? Are there shibboleths? Does it sound like him? Has his spelling suddenly changed, you / U et al?
... weirdly perhaps (Aspie brain alert) I'm far better at this with written language than vocal. If we'd been on the phone I'd likely not have noticed or, if I had, I'd have gone "what's up?" and she'd have said "nothing" and I'd have replied "oh, OK, just checking." Written, I knew something was out of phase.
It doesn't sound good at all, he's alluded to his wife previously draining his account or something a few months ago, now he needs 5k suddenly?
Personally I'd be shutting the conversation down there and asking him to get on a plane and sort his french bank account, and if that isn't possible then there isn't really an end game here and the 5k will only be the first of many.
get on a plane
Do they not have telephones in Algeria?
Or for that matter, banks?
the 5k will only be the first of many.
Quite.
I think that if you care sufficiently then you need to intervene, and that intervention likely isn't "sure, here's five grand."
He doesn't have an Algerian bank account - I think they're really hard to open if you're not Algerian, so he's always run his money out of his french account and just spent directly from there/xferred money into his wife's account for things like utilities.
He also owns no property so does have fairly high outgoings.5k does sound like a lot, but I wouldn't be surprised if he spends that over 2 months easily
Banks do lock accounts for anti money laundering reasons, which is more likely of you don't live where your account is. You get lots of warning but if you ignore those the account does get locked and is slow to unlock
We are sure the person we're dealing with it him, and a video chat later on the phone will make this certain.
I cant believe you're even giving this any thought having not talked to your FIL in person. Seems like a classic WhatsApp scam to me. But hell 5k isn't small change, this least he could have done was pick the phone up and ask / explain in person. Until I'd had that conversation, initiated by him it would be a flat no from me.
I cant believe you’re even giving this any thought having not talked to your FIL in person
We're talking to him today, but I started this thread to figure out some probing questions to ask during the conversation (it's been useful for that). We wouldn't pay anything without that, so I'm comfortable it's not us being defrauded, I'm just concerned he is
Why you
My wife had (when he started having money issues a few months ago) said we could lend him some cash if he got desperate (thinking it would never come to that). So maybe it's because of that? He was always very generous to her previously, so giving some of that back isn't the end of the world
He doesn't have a lot of friends in Algeria, he moved there when he retired a few years ago (having worked around the world all his life), so that may also be a reason as to 'why us'
Has his wife got hold of his phone and is trying it on with anyone who will listen. Contact anyone else he/she might be whatsapping that you might know.
When you speak to him on the phone, let him start the talking don't immediately batter him with facts. See if he is even aware of it.
£5k? How long is he expecting his bank account to be locked for?
Very good point. I woy have thought £5k GBP would go a long way in Algeria.
We wouldn’t pay anything without that, so I’m comfortable it’s not us being defrauded
If he is being and you do, you are.
Scams only work if the victim doesn't realise they're being scammed, if he doesn't how will you?
You're aware his wife has previously drained his savings, what are the flags you're going to spot that tell you it isn't just that again?
Even if he's absolutely not being scammed, you're about to send 5k to his wife, someone with whom he has a strained relationship and who has, in the passed, spent all his money (nefarious of otherwise) are you in anyway sure he'll even see £50 of it, let alone £5000?
[his Google] Cost of living in Algeria is estimated at $430 USD pp. allowing for inflation, decent lifestyle and exchange that 5k is probably a year of estimated living costs...
Nothing practical to add other than sympathy.
We've both got ageing parents and worry/have helped steer them away from spam emails and scam calls in the last few months. It seems, particularly my father, is just too trusting and doesn't react like he would have a few years ago. It's a genuine worry....
When i went to Algeria the currency situation was weird. We had to exchange money at the boarder. The exchange rate was artificially set by the government.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algerian_dinar
It appears that Algeria still doesn’t have a freely traded currency
A quick giggle suggests Algeria is still a fairly cheap country. An online calculator suggests that they could both live in a nice hotel for 2 months for £5000
The bottom line is that your FIL represents a huge source of forgotten currency. Algerians probably can’t just buy foreign currency like we can
So I’d say all this points to a scam
Questions to ask
What specifically will this money be spent on? Ask for everything to be quantified
Ask about his assets and income. What is the balance in his various accounts. Is his pension still being paid
I think paying for a flight to Europe for him only would be a good outcome
With regard to lending money, the question I ask myself is “would I be happy to give this as a gift?”
This would be my ultimate starting point, can I afford to loose £5k ?If not I wouldnt even be taking conversations further/
and even harder (with my wife having a not-super-close relationship with him) to push him on the finer details of his situation.
I am sorry but if you are lending £5k ask what ever questions you like, its not as though you are lending £10.
You are kind of out of luck however you try and approach this as the French bank will not speak to you directly. All you could do is ask for the evidence from the Bank that they have blocked his account, ultimately though you would probably have no better idea than him whether the letter/email is real or not. You could find the real banks email address/telephone number and get him to contact whilst you are on the phone/facetime ?
And why is his bank account being blocked for so long? £5k would allow you to live for at least 2-3 months comfortably !?!?
This sounds like a scam all day long. I think the debate here is over complicating things.
Speak to your FIL
If he sounds genuine then give him a smaller amount to see him through a few weeks and then intervene to help him overcome the barriers to accessing his own money.
Is he even aware of the request?
Don't beat around the bush; ask him.
Banks don’t lock out accounts unless they have concerns. Why isn’t he talking to the bank to resolve it?
No idea about French banks, but a relative has had issues with dealing with SPanish banks before, where they expect everything to be done in person, (and sometimes at the bank branch that the account was originally opened at).
Therefore this
“Dad, would it be better if we bought you a plane ticket to Marseille so you can go to the bank/social security and work this out once and for all?”
Seems like a good idea.
Having said that this still sounds like either a scam, or at the least something that needs a full and frank conversation as others have mentioned.
Even if this is a legit request from the FIL, if his wife has previously “rinsed” him and they have a strained relationship then to just transfer the £5k directly into [i]her[/i] account is madness, surely?
What specifically will this money be spent on? Ask for everything to be quantified
That's a point. If it turns out that he needs a new car / roof / orangery or whatever, and you wanted to help, you could buy that for him directly rather than handing over the ready cash.
As I said before, £5k is a wedge to need just to "tide them over," if they're living beyond their means then it'll run out and then what happens? I borrowed from a mate but there were demonstrable reasons for it, someone did a hit & run on my car right before it was due to be returned and neither replacement floors nor vet bills are particularly cheap. It wasn't for ongoing C&H costs.
The wife is a complication I hadn't considered. However you slice that, unless they're estranged you're dealing with them as a couple. If you jump through hoops to give him money rather than her, there's little to stop her from going "honey..." after the fact if she's got previous. The more I think about this, the more I think that the real issue is that the wife has run out of designer handbags and having cleaned him out she's making a start on people he knows.
... which is another point and a question worth asking. Who else has he approached for money? Several lots of £5k into her bank account is a whole other world of red flags.
even harder (with my wife having a not-super-close relationship with him) to push him on the finer details of his situation.
You're giving - let's stop labouring under this 'lending' notion - someone five grand who you aren't particularly close with?
This is the tricky thing.. we don’t want to come across as not believing/trusting him, but our concern is he may be being scammed..
That's not tricky at all. You don't trust him. And he'd have to be a complete idiot to be surprised that you may have questions before writing a cheque. If that's not the case then you're right, it is a scam, only the mark isn't him, it's you.
Get one thing straight. You aren't "lending" him £5k. You are *giving* him £5k. Or not. Your call, but either way that's what it is.
quacks like a scam and swims like a scam, probably a duck (or something)
Easy enough to resolve though.
Phone call, not an email:
"Yes, of course we can help you, but obviously its a lot of money and we would like to know more about the situation, for your protection, as much as for the protection of our money."
And, even if it is legit. Can you afford to lose it, if he decides to just not pay you back
Sounds like the OP isn't listening to any advice here and will do it anyway? Not sure what the point of the thread was then.
To ask for advice as to what questions to ask them.
This 100% feels like a scam, from the request, the quick move to sending bank details, to the intended recipient of the actual funds. This won't end with £5k.... Does Op actually know that they are conversing with the FIL?
I would start by refusing the request and see what happens from there. or you could suggest something bonkers like offering to go over with the money to see how insistent they are for electronic transfer.
Sounds like the OP isn’t listening to any advice here and will do it anyway? Not sure what the point of the thread was then.
Same as every "what new bike/tyres/dog/flavour or crisps" thread which invariably ends with the op buying something no one has recommended and that wasn't on their shortlist for comment (and that doesn't in anyway match their original brief but was heavily reduced)
... or they've already bought it before starting a thread going "is this any good?"
Bit late now if it isn't, innit.
..or they have more info than we do. It sounds as though this isn't completely out of the blue like most scams and what they are trying to do, as Cougar said above, is work out what questions to ask to work out what to do next. They have also said that they are prepared to lose the cash if necessary, but are trying to work out if is it a scam, or they are in trouble, or what is actually going on. The fact that is looks dodgy was already clear from the start
Sounds like the OP isn’t listening to any advice here and will do it anyway? Not sure what the point of the thread was then.
Eh? Here's what the OP said earlier:
We’re talking to him today, but I started this thread to figure out some probing questions to ask during the conversation (it’s been useful for that). We wouldn’t pay anything without that, so I’m comfortable it’s not us being defrauded, I’m just concerned he is
Let's wait and see how the conversation goes.
Sounds like the OP isn’t listening to any advice here and will do it anyway?
What on earth has the OP posted to give you that idea?
The OP has posted here to get advice on what questions to ask his fil. So far the advice has been good.
Same as every “what new bike/tyres/dog/flavour or crisps” thread which invariably ends with the op buying something no one has recommended and that wasn’t on their shortlist for comment (and that doesn’t in anyway match their original brief but was heavily reduced)
Makes you wonder how rubbish the advice given is. 😀
They have also said that they are prepared to lose the cash if necessary
I mean, that being the case, I'll have it. I could pay my mate back and pocket the change, job jobbed.
You’re giving – let’s stop labouring under this ‘lending’ notion – someone five grand who you aren’t particularly close with?
100% don't lend what you can't give
So bit of an update. Spoke to him earlier. It seems that since arriving in Algeria (freshly retired), he hasn't paid any tax. He was given advice from an accountant that this was correct. Whether it is or not is still unclear, but 5 years on Algeria have got France to freeze his bank account. We don't have any evidence of this, but he's never lied before and was open with all the details. Apparently everything got frozen a couple of months back and they've been running through current accounts/selling jewelery since then.
His estimate is that 5k will last them 10 weeks. You can live cheaper in algeria, but when you have car leases/renting a flat for you + kids/medical support for the kids etc it can be hard to reduce outgoings in a hurry. We've told him that we don't have any more cash after the 5k is gone. We asked (as suggested here) what happens when the money is gone, he doesn't have a plan other than hoping the account is re unlocked, but obviously that will be a slow burn
Apparently his wife already borrowed money from her family when her business was failing (which is also where his life savings seemed to disappear), so they didn't have that local backstop when this happened.
We dug into details of their spending patterns and are reasonably convinced they're cutting things as much as they can. We are also convinced his wife isn't coercing him into anything at this point
I'm not 100% sure he's telling the truth, but tbh my wife is sending money that shes happy to give him (a lot of it was given to her by him 15 years ago whilst she was at uni, so giving it back isn't the ene of the world).
Appreciate all the help so far. Sorry for sporadic answers, we're on hols and wifi is flakey
It seems like a promising update, but if Algeria have requested that his account is frozen is there a big tax bill incoming?
I wish all the best in sorting this out, but I think you will be unable to do anything other than pointlessly prolong the inevitable.
Things kinda jump out:
Apparently his wife already borrowed money from her family when her business was failing (which is also where his life savings seemed to disappear),
Whole story much?
Algeria have got France to freeze his bank account
Mmm. Because tax not paid on pension income that isn't taxable?
or because business that failed and liabilities?
hoping the account is re unlocked
I detect an absence of plan.
We are also convinced his wife isn’t coercing him into anything at this point
"at this point" seems to be doing the heavy lifting
ou can live cheaper in algeria, but when you have car leases/renting a flat for you + kids/medical support for the kids etc it can be hard to reduce outgoings in a hurry.
The business failed, and only now is the point of thinking about reducing outgoings?
Whether you like it or not, it sounds very much like his wife has hosed his life savings and has got them both on the hook for something in Algeria. Perhaps not scam, but you know what, it might as well be.
All the best. Reading the start and end of thread, I think you'd just be tipping money into a black hole though.
. It seems that since arriving in Algeria (freshly retired), he hasn’t paid any tax. He was given advice from an accountant that this was correct. Whether it is or not is still unclear, but 5 years on Algeria have got France to freeze his bank account.
It really sounds like he needs a sensible Algerian lawyer at this point. Have they "frozen" the account because they intend to seize the contents based on a court order or something?
OP.... You can give me 5k..... I'll get the suspension serviced on two bikes, but some drugs and provide sexual gratification to you personally.
Deal?
Algeria would have to seek a court order in France to do that, how much tax owing are we talking about?
Sounds like he needs French and Algerian legal advice.
Well if your wife wants to give him £5k cos she feels he's owed it, and you can jointly afford it, crack on. Don't kid yourself it's some sort of loan.
We don’t have any evidence of this, but
"Send us the paperwork and we'll pay it off for you."
His estimate is that 5k will last them 10 weeks.
Wait, hang on. Is this £5k to pay off his tax fraud arrears, or to pay for food for the next ten weeks? That's two entirely different scenarios.
Algeria have got France to freeze his bank account
This to my mind is the nub of the matter. He's in one foreign country with a bank account in another foreign country, the pair of them have variously ****ed their finances through whatever legitimate or illegitimate means we care to read between the lines into this story, and his long-term game plan going forwards is to hit up semi-estranged relatives for several thousand pounds and hope it all sorts itself out? Send him thoughts and prayers?
Based, again, solely on what you've posted here, I'd suggest that if you've got five grand burning a hole in your pocket and you want to help him, I'd be buying a one-way ticket back to Blighty, setting up the spare room and talking with non-loony banks.
This is either a) as fishy as a fire sale in Grimsby or b) he's got himself properly in the shit and has zero appetite to help himself. That 5k won't last ten weeks, I'd be amazed if it lasted ten days. And (again) then what?
[color=red]Why is that account frozen?[/color] He has money but can't access it, the solution is unlikely to be "more money."
I'd want to be verifying this directly with his bank tbh.
Seems like a lot of folk passing judgement over a situation they don't actually know much about. My (happily so far limited) experience of arguing with the tax man, and especially tax men in another country, is that you are guilty until they can be convinced to find you innocent. Up until that point they have massive powers to utterly **** up your ife and there's nothing you can do about it, even if you are in the right. In that situation -
He has money but can’t access it, the solution is unlikely to be “more money.”
is not exactly the problem. He has money he can't access, and needs money he CAN access in order to buy food.
I would be paying for a flight to him to get to his French bank, getting one for myself and meeting him there then seeing what is actually going on. If he is being scammed you have him safely away from the scammers, if he's genuinely in trouble then you're in the best place to sort it out. If he doesn't turn up then you're only down the cost of a few flights and accommodation.
Either way you know where you stand.
I would be paying for a flight to him to get to his French bank
Sure, but apparently it's a tax thing, so the bank will do one of their trademark Gallic shrugs and you'll have wasted a plane ticket.
the claim is that his french bank account has been locked as he lives abroad
Whilst French banks are known for closing expats' bank accounts for no reason, locking them is always for a reason, usually insufficient funds or illegal activity.
Can he set up an online bank to have his pension paid into in the meantime, like revolute, or wise or something of that nature?
A bank might well lock your account simply for noticing that you live abroad.
We certainly did our best to keep it quiet while we were living abroad, and used my parents' address throughout that time. Banks aren't necessarily licensed to operate worldwide, and could be subject to large penalties if they act outside the legal framework of the new country (not remitting appropriate taxes, not paying regulatory fees, giving advice that they aren't licensed to do).
I'm sure lots of people fly under the radar as we did. But if you were relying on the old account for all use in the new country (which we were not) then it might easily be spotted and might get difficult very quickly.
As it happens I’m an Algerian and French tax expert. If you transfer £5k into my Cayman Island account I’ll sort this whole mess out for your father. No sexual gratification received or offered, terms and conditions apply. Your investment may not be safe. Etc. etc.
Sure, but apparently it’s a tax thing, so the bank will do one of their trademark Gallic shrugs and you’ll have wasted a plane ticket.
That is a possibility but you will also know the full picture.
Not buying it, sorry.
If a tax man from one country contacts the bank in another sovereign state and asked them to freeze a bank account as it might contain a lump sum they might want to recover i doubt that would happen.
Unless it was a spectacular lump of cash. Or your fil has somehow fooled the bank into thinking hes not actually in Algeria, despite every transaction coming from there.
If 5000 is only going to last 10 weeks my guess is run out of cash due to living beyond means by trying to support her extended family, her business losses means its all on him.
I'm with singletrackmind - to me the story does not add up at all
Had a quick look at the France - Algeria double tax treaty. Pensions are taxable in the country where you're resident, not the one where they are paid.
The exception is if it's a pension for government service. In which case the opposite is true.
Who did your FIL work for OP?
My French pension is paid brut and I pay tax on it in whichever country I declare my tax - France in my case.
His pension should be (unless there’s some way he’s sold it, we’ll find out tomorrow)
You can't sell a French state pension. People often have a complementary pension and I don't see how you could seel that either. It would have to be some kind of investment based pension to be able to sell and those are rare in France.
The fontion publique pensions that would be taxed in France are quite rare. Madame is a teacher but her pension will be under the normal penson system.