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Recent events have got me thinking about how you could get someone rescued after a crash/injury.
Two nights ago our son (not a youngster) was riding at night over at Tunnel Hill, Pirbright - actually in Area 51/Highlands Farm area which is Gorrick's race area. He was riding alone and doing a ride in preparation for this coming weekend's Gorrick race there.
He had a crash. Basically OK and got himself home but has broken his thumb and can't really ride. We get his Strava Beacon/Garmin Livetrack notifications as does his girlfriend. No alarms this time as he wasn't actually incapacitated.
But.... if he had injured himself and was unable to move, what could we actually do? If Beacon/Livetrack actually worked well we would have a general idea of where he was but not necessarily depending on the tracking signal. I know some of the areas he rides..... typically Tunnel Hill, Porridgepot, Swinley, Minley and sometimes Surrey Hills area (which I don't really know much}.
Sorry for the long preamble but what would you do, who could you call? 999, Police, Ambulance? Who?
Much easier here in mountain areas- ring 999 and ask for police, then mountain rescue and provide all the details and police call out the appropriate MR team. I imagine in lowland areas if it involves an incapacitating injury you might start with the ambulance service but be clear location not accessible by vehicle.
TomB
Full Member
Much easier here in mountain areas- ring 999 and ask for police, then mountain rescue and provide all the details and police call out the appropriate MR team.
This.
We found a guy a couple of weeks ago that was lay on the floor suffering from chest pains and a numb left arm...
His mate seemed unconcerned until we suggested he might want to ring Police and ask for MR.
One of our group then rode back down the hill and picked up a defib and bought it back up the hill just in case.
Luckily a doctor happened to ride past and stopped with him until MR turned up.
ring 999
This pretty much. IME they're very very good at this kind of stuff.
My experience was breaking my collarbone about 1/4 of the way down Dumyat. Didn't really need any assistance but my mates rang 999 ambulance just to be sure. I ended up with an ambulance crew walking up the hill to meet us on the way down, as well as the air ambulance making a visit to the area just in case. I know 5 km outside Stirling is hardly the back of beyond but the point is a call to 999 will get all the necessary people and equipment on the case.
Thanks for the replies but, of course, no Mountain Rescue in Surrey/Hampshire (as far as I know) and finding someone who was riding alone with only Garmin/Strava tracking could be problematic.
You don't need mountain rescue, you just need an air ambulance. Even if it's not available, you are still generally not all that far from a fire-road and those are generally accessible by vehicles. Emergency services are supposed to have keys to the FC/NRW places (I think) but I also think they carry bolt croppers in case the key doesn't work.
If you're alone and concerned then you need some form of emergency beacon or tracker to alert the emergency services. I used to have one but no longer - I just make sure I don't send anything when riding alone.
Pick up a Spot Gen 3 for £30 off Ebay and sign up to their cheapest plan...
https://www.findmespot.com/en-gb/
It has a SOS button and if the user is unconscious, it will still be sending out their location.
no Mountain Rescue in Surrey/Hampshire (as far as I know)
Now you know: https://hantsar.org/
Just phone 999 and speak to Ambulance, Police / Mountain Rescue or Coastguard depending on where you are.
You're worrying and overthinking it because to you it's a hopefully rare event. To anyone in the emergency services it's what they deal with every day and there will be protocols, policies and procedures that cover the situation you're calling about.
Don't worry if you do ask for the wrong agency - we're pretty good at communicating with each other and passing things to other agencies when needed.
I let the family know what time I'm due home and what route I'm taking. So hopefully if I spanner myself really badly someone will be alerted, eventually. But I normally ride in the Peaks so generally lots of people around should I spanner myself.
Only time I did do it, was last year when I went OTB and tore my shoulder ligament. Just phoned the Mrs and she picked me up at the pub carpark. The grinding in my shoulder as I rode/pushed my bike back was a bit off-putting.
But yeah otherwise 999 and also knowing my location.
Something to consider for both the rider and the 'worried' is how to give that location information to the services.
I'm not sure what Strava beacon gives you other Than a dot on a map. Can anyone enlighten me.
For the rider the free app 'os locate' is great and dare I say it 'what3words'.
Also for the worried have a practice, ie get the rider to pretend they have had an incident and confirm that you can get the correct useful info to send on.
Thanks again.
@footflaps Thanks for the link and I see there is a Surrey Search and Rescue as well as the Hampshire one you posted the link to.
To put this in perspective.... this isn't for me as the "rider in trouble" as I don't ride at night. It's as the other end of the tracking when our son is riding. We get the Beacon/Livetrack feeds but the original question was based on what we would actually do if all his movement stopped for a while, couldn't get him on the phone etc.... who would we contact. Your feedbacks have been useful.
From my own perspective I do know a little bit to be on the injured end of this though as around 2 years ago, riding alone but in daylight I crashed and fractured my pelvis. I was lucky in that 3 great guys recued me and sorted out my hospital recovery. But before they got to me I was getting scared.
This.
We found a guy a couple of weeks ago that was lay on the floor suffering from chest pains and a numb left arm…
His mate seemed unconcerned until we suggested he might want to ring Police and ask for MR.One of our group then rode back down the hill and picked up a defib and bought it back up the hill just in case.
Luckily a doctor happened to ride past and stopped with him until MR turned up.
GT by any chance? If so I think you will find that the MR response was first class 😉
Agree with not over thinking it. There is a lot of good tech around now that makes finding casualties much easier than in the past. If in a hilly area then, as above, make sure you call 999 - Police - Mountain Rescue. In more urban or lowland areas stress to 999 operator if you know person is in a hard to reach area. This will trigger additional resource.
From my own perspective I do know a little bit to be on the injured end of this though as around 2 years ago, riding alone but in daylight I crashed and fractured my pelvis. I was lucky in that 3 great guys recued me and sorted out my hospital recovery. But before they got to me I was getting scared.
10 years ago ish the then GF and I went for a ride at Whinlatter, about 1 mile from the start we came across a chap who had crashed and was immobile (suspected broken pelvis). I rode back to call 999. He was on his own IIRC and just stuck there waiting for someone to come across him. IIRC there was no mobile reception at that location.
Thanks @MadBillMcMad Those are good suggestions. I think Livetrack and Strava Beacon don't actually give you map references but I'll check
Something to consider for both the rider and the ‘worried’ is how to give that location information to the services.
I’m not sure what Strava beacon gives you other Than a dot on a map. Can anyone enlighten me.
For the rider the free app ‘os locate’ is great and dare I say it ‘what3words’.
OS Locate is great. Also worth having W3W on your phone as, increasingly, 999 operators like using this. Lots of debate around W3W but if 999 operators are asking for it, that isn't the time to debate the merits of the system! If MRT are involved you will probably get a PhoneFind SMS message sent to your phone as well, this triggers a GPS fix pinged back via SMS (assuming you consent and have GPS turned on)
I'd call my riding buddies 1st....they'll know exactly where i am rather than trying to explain where the fodderstompf trail is
I’d call my riding buddies 1st….they’ll know exactly where i am rather than trying to explain where the fodderstompf trail is
That's fine if the rider in trouble is contactable/conscious etc but if your the person who is their safety contact and all movement has stopped for a good while and you can't contact/phone them..... hence asking the question.
Some good options suggested.
I had to call 999 about a guy at GT at the weekend- operators first port of call was W3W, while I was busy opening up OS Locate and trying to get him to take a grid ref...
Emergency services are supposed to have keys to the FC/NRW places (I think) but I also think they carry bolt croppers in case the key doesn’t work.
Nope, sorry but that’s just not true.
Emergency services are supposed to have keys to the FC/NRW places (I think) but I also think they carry bolt croppers in case the key doesn’t work.
MRT will usually have forestry keys but I am not aware of other emergency services having them.
I had to call 999 about a guy at GT at the weekend- operators first port of call was W3W, while I was busy opening up OS Locate and trying to get him to take a grid ref…
Sounds about right. It is increasingly mainstream now, certainly in Scotland.
In fairness though, the system is pretty good. When the police enter the W3W location into the MRT system, it translates it into a grid ref which auto pin drops onto mapping. It also recognises if there are other, similar W3W locations in the UK and will inform system users of this so they can quickly identify errors. It does work.
We stopped taking keys as locks would get changed or others added on. Bolt cutters take up less space than a 1000+ keys if we took from everyone who offered a key
Thanks for the link. Had no idea about them either and Hampshire is my home turf.
Some old school stuff could really apply here as well. I do some of this if night riding with my children.
- plan and share your route
- estimated time of departure / return
- check in at both ends and agreed times with an OS ref or W3W reference point if a longer ride
Would "find my phone" type apps logged in on another device allow a pinpoint location to be taken if notification didn't come through?
I'm still trying to work this through and as regards Garmin Livetrack and Strava Beacon you can't get any location coordinates if a ride seems to have stopped suddenly. The best you can do is zoom into where the riude seems to have stopped and try and work out roughly where they are from that. Maybe not too bad if it seems to be in an area you know yourself well and perhaps has a trail name or something but potentially very hard to do and explain to some emergency service where you "think" they may be.
What3Words seems reliant on the victim being conscious and able to tell you the magic words but you can't use the app to actually track someone.
What3Words seems reliant on the victim being conscious and able to tell you the magic words but you can’t use the app to actually track someone.
Also on having a mobile signal to dial 999.
Carry a proper satellite beacon eg SPOT which works everywhere.
Thanks for the link. Had no idea about them either and Hampshire is my home turf.
Search and rescue groups in most areas I would think, mate of mine volunteers for a group in Bucks and I've witnessed others out on practice evenings, sadly usually out looking for potential suicides and lost dementia sufferers 😕
Search and rescue groups in most areas I would think
Yep, we even have one in Cambridge, where 10m ASL is considered being high up 😉
GT by any chance? If so I think you will find that the MR response was first class 😉
I'm sure you did a fine job👌 but once the Dr was with him there seemed little point in us all hanging around and she was quite happy for us to carry on with our ride.
Hope the lad was OK in the end?
His eyes were rolling back in his head at one point. Really didn't look very well at all when we found him.
We did see the MR waggon in the carpark later but you all looked busy so we didn't stop to ask.
As a side note some of us are now carrying Aspirin and an emergency blanket with us on rides.
Also on having a mobile signal to dial 999.
Carry a proper satellite beacon eg SPOT which works everywhere.
Or an iPhone 14, iPhone 14 Pro, iPhone 15 or iPhone 15 Pro with Satellite Emergency SOS support, which is now available in the UK.
https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT213426
I would try to ensure that the emergency contact details are all filled in on their phone. Ok , maybe blood group is a step too far, unless you're a rare type.
But the contract numbers for people who know you are important and accessable even if the keypad lock is on
Rely on being found... 🤷
On road - there'll be someone in a car / on a bike etc along fairly shortly in most cases although how willing they are to stop and how capable they are of providing assistance is anyone's guess.
Off-road. Hmm. The one serious incident I did have was on a popular track in the Lake District (a mate went OTB and broke his pelvis, required Mtn Rescue and a big yellow helicopter). However, several walkers had stopped to provide assistance and, in once case, a set of warm clothes to wrap the casualty up in.
I've been airlifted twice - once in Switzerland on a guided MTB holiday (so the guides and Swiss authorities took care of everything) and once in the Lakes on a group ride where the main reason for the airlift was the fact that the air ambulance was literally flying past on a training exercise:
hi guys, MTBer with concussion, can you assist?
Yep, be there in... /checks watch... 90 seconds.
Other than that, I have a laminated card in my phone case with emergency contacts, blood type, address etc on it. Easier than anything electronic and at some point while my dead / broken body is being scraped off a hillside or back at the hospital, it'll be found.
I have laminated copy of id on the back of phone, under the cover, but easily seen I often walk alone and was concerned if I keeled over, attacked by wild dogs...noone would know who I was.
Also have 20 quid note which has never had any use, emergency coffee or taxi money.
Sounds what he needs is a riding buddy.
If nothing else it is of course always wise to let someone know if you're going out alone, even if it's on foot. I'd do it if I were going to the shops.
As per poolman above, for all that I'm a geek I'm quite the fan of analogue solutions here. There's been various viral suggestions around In Case of Emergency ("ICE") contacts in your phone and suchlike but really, who wants to ferret about on your phone whilst you're bleeding out? A sticker on the back is far more accessible, or an emergency bracelet if you're planning on making a habit of going OTB. Where even is your phone? Rucksack? Pocket? Saddle bag? Why not just scribble your partner's number on the back of your hand with a Sharpie before throwing yourself down something Max Gnarl.