[Closed] Imposter Syndrome?

Yes, every day. It's far more common than you think, and far healthier to have at least some of it than the opposite - people with no understanding of their fallibility / lack of ability (Dunning Kruger) - they're terrifying.

By a degree - I feel perfectly happy knowing I don't know some things and to therefore ask/get advice when I don't know. Use it as an advantage, be good at what you know and humble about what you don't and you'll be surprised how good you are and how much you do know.

Confucius, paraphrased; 'If you think you're the smartest person in the room, you're probably mistaken. If you are the smartest person in the room - time to find another room'

Yep, have had it, keep having it, permanently worried that I will be found out, and that is after doing this kind of thing since 2006 and repeatedly being told I know what I am doing. I still think that I am going to be found out one day.

The best thing I can suggest is to keep pretending that you know what you are doing and be honest about areas that you need development in. Then learn that stuff too.

I've always felt like I'm just pretending to be a responsible adult at work.

I've tried taking the view that if people keep giving me stuff to do, they must in general think that I can do it, and historically that's usually turned out to be (mostly) true. Sometimes stuff goes wrong, but them's the brakes, sometimes stuff goes better than expected too.

I'm not sure I suffer from Imposter Syndrome either. I might just be pretending. (sorry)

What I've found is that the world of linkedin/recruitment etc seems to be a world of everyone pushing some perfectionist ideal

When you're in a job it's just normal folks. Sometimes they're tired, sometimes they want a coffee, some of them aren't that good but most folk are decent enough. Generally noone is "brilliant". It's nothing like what the job adverts or interviews describe it like.

in my current job (IT contract, decent money) I constantly think "surely it can't be this easy". But everyone is really happy with what I'm doing. I know, I've asked them!

As long as you aren't totally thick or a total walloper, you'll be fine.

Take the one with the most money. They're probably all the same job day-to-day so might as well get more money for it.

Yep, have had it, keep having it, permanently worried that I will be found out, and that is after doing this kind of thing since 2006 and repeatedly being told I know what I am doing

That is me , sometime I get really surprised when people actually listen to what I am saying

I’ve always felt like I’m just pretending to be a responsible adult at work.

100% this.

I've been in my current position for 6 and a half years now. I was brought in from another industry partly based on a recommendation and had to learn a new product and how to be a manager at the same time. The first couple of years were bloody miserable! But I've got it now and they clearly thought that I could do it if I couldn't.

in the tech market

Just a thing... in the tech market, we often produce "stuff" which is, how to say, somewhat intangible.

It's not like we make bespoke fine furniture pieces and every day's another chair or table or writing desk.

e.g. myself these past six months and I've produced a few document updates and planned some other peoples coding work, done some reviews of the same, that kind of stuff, I haven't actually even made much code let alone seen the end result of any of those projects... sometimes it feels a lot like your work just goes into a void.

I'm not sure the intangibleness of it all helps.

Yup.

I’m an idiot who is paid medical consultant money to do what to me are simple tasks.

I’ll get found out one day.

Yes, I suspect we all have unless we are delusional or sociapathic!

Something I found useful was some prep I did for interviews where I detailed examples of when I had done the things I talked about on my CV, the actual examples. This helps to reassure me that what I am saying is valid and that I have an example to hand when some asks me to give an example of X.

However, if your CV says something along the lines of 'delivers projects to scope, time and budget' then stop lying to everyone, you are infact an imposter ;P And also burn your CV it's lies!

I suffered from this for most of my adult life. I was never good enough for anything (not just work). Work i used to turn up every day expecting to be sacked. 30 years of that isnt good for anyone.

Things changed when I had some management training. i didnt learn a lot about what i was supposed to be learning but it changed me as a person. Its become clear to me just how absolutely ****ing useless most people are. The issue is i dont care about anything anymore so its swung the other way.

You are not along and its horrible.

Isn't this just low self esteem?

I follow John Amaechi on twitter and he's a brilliant management coach, he talks about impostor syndrome and has some insight about how it works. Paraphrasing here but he says 'it's that voice in your head saying you can't but you have to remember that the voice isn't informed, isn't rational and isn't kind'

also remember that no-one expects you to be brilliant straight away at a job, you need time in all new jobs to get to know the processes, the people etc

Good luck 🙂

At times I used to think that I winging it given I've never completed any formal training for what I do.

Most of what I can do is through learning by doing.

The more I work alongside others the more confident I am in my skill set and capabilities.

As others have said this is very common. Have a look at the TED talk by AMy Cuddy 'Fake it til you make it'.

I have worked with top level people in a range of industries who all owned up to feeling like this sometimes, and these are people at the top of their industry on 6 figure salaries (and in one case seven). Confidence is a good thing, but so is reflecting on the reality of your abilities. Just don't overdo either of these!

Confucius, paraphrased; ‘If you think you’re the smartest person in the room, you’re probably mistaken. If you are the smartest person in the room – time to find another room’

If you feel like the least smart person in the room, just remember those smart people have chosen you to be in the room, so you must be the right person as they would be smart enough to kick you out if you weren't up to it.

I’ve always felt like I’m just pretending to be a responsible adult

FTFM

One day people are going to realise I'm a 13 year old boy in a 39 year old man shaped suit, until then I'm going to keep stealing cookies and hope I can make it through another day.

I’ve always felt like I’m just pretending to be a responsible adult at work.

100%. Occasionally I'm talking at a meeting or doing a presentation and I think "That sounded quite good, like I know what I'm talking about", then I go back to expecting to get rumbled as winging it.

And LinkedIn, I hate it with a passion. I'm reluctantly on it as perhaps one day someone will get in touch to offer me a highly paid job with little responsibility, but the 'inspiring' self promotion guff people post makes me want to poke them in the eyes.

It helps if you are ever in a position to interview job applicants. Then you see how bloody useless most of them are and you'll realise just how rare a commodity you are even if you are just competent in your role.

One day people are going to realise I’m a 13 year old boy in a 39 year old man shaped suit, until then I’m going to keep stealing cookies and hope I can make it through another day.

My wife often reminds me that this is basically true for me

I'm pretty useless at my job, he says posting on the Internet when he should be working, but TBH I'm only doing it for the money.
I feel I am reasonably competent at most other stuff I do so that doesn't bother me, I'll just keep doing it as long as they want to pay me for muddling through. I suspect most other people just make it up as they go along too

I’ve always felt like I’m just pretending to be a responsible adult at work.

Yep 100%. Confirmed by sneakily looking at toys (bikes, SUPs etc) all day. It's pretty cool being a kid with grown up money though.

Also, totally get imposter syndrome, badly. It's definitley hindered my career tbh.

You're definitely not alone! I get this all the time, I think it's a good indication that you are pushing yourself. Personally I'm comfortable outside of my comfort zone and sometimes a bit of imposter syndrome actually helps me measure where I am - too much confidence and I'm coasting, nervousness is good and means I'm in the right "zone", abject terror is bad and means I need to pull back a little.

Different strokes for different folks of course and your boundaries will be very different to mine. One thing I would say though:

there’ll be less eyes on me to live up to whats on my CV.

If you're not relatively confident you can do whats on your CV then it probably shouldn't be on there! If you overcook it too much you are misleading your (prospective) employer, and setting yourself up to fail from the start.

It's normal right?

Isn’t this just low self esteem?

No. Next question.

I suffer massively from imposter syndrome however the quote above "If you feel like the least smart person in the room, just remember those smart people have chosen you to be in the room, so you must be the right person as they would be smart enough to kick you out if you weren’t up to it" is a big help.

For around 10 years I worked in video games as a coder and would suffer bouts of this, you need to be careful that you don't get stressed by it. I've found it improves as you get older and you get more perspective about people and what's important and not.

I have been reasonably successful - operated in many senior roles reporting directly to exec boards - and I feel it all the time!

My experiences have shown me:
- People are not necessarily better skilled the more senior they are - but it is great when that is the case!
- Most ‘normal’ people have some degree of this.
- People who believe their own ‘hype’ are awful to work with/for.

It helps if you are ever in a position to interview job applicants. Then you see how bloody useless most of them are and you’ll realise just how rare a commodity you are even if you are just competent in your role

This is very true - I had to interview people for a server admin role a few years back, it surprised me (having filtered the chaff down to 6 decent CVs) that they all knew very little. I'm not saying that as I think I'm some sort of genius, far from it as I have impostor syndrome to, but it was actually a nice affirmation I must have actually learnt some stuff over the years.

Had it for as long as I can remember despite being in a few different jobs now where my appraisals have always said I'm good to very good. It does mean I'm always trying to do my best at whatever I do but it also means that when things go wrong, even when completely out of my control, it's easy to think it's because you're not good enough! It does effect my social life terribly though as I always worry and think that I was only invited along out of courtousy or something, never because people want to actually spend time in my company.

Isn’t this just low self esteem?

No, completely different feelings for each but they can be triggered by similar issues. Same as anxiety and depression are similar but also completely different, one does not mean the other will be there but they do tend to come in pairs. Hard to explain unless you've been down that road.

I've always had imposter syndrome to various degrees. Over the past 20 odd years I've learnt one central truth about work. This is that there are very few genuinely good, intelligent, and competent people, and almost everyone else is massively winging it. What I've never worked out is which of those groups I belong to. 😄

Started a new job last year. It's in tech, and is literally what I've been doing for the last five years but for a different company. Still had imposter syndrome, there's a huge amount of company-specific knowledge that I just didn't have and am still learning.

Then the annual review happened and the summary was basically "did great, hit the ground running at speed".

If you read the job spec and think "I can do that", and the interview goes well, then you're up to it. Yes, there'll be things you don't know and things you need to learn, but if there wasn't the job wouldn't be as interesting. Treat water in safety, or push yourself and advance.

"I’ve always felt like I’m just pretending to be a responsible adult at work."

This is totally me.

I'm a solicitor, been doing it for just over 20 years. Never felt as good as other people, although, objectively and rationally I know I'm pretty good at it. It doesn't feel that way though, most of the time.

More recently, I have been pushed into management of the firm, something I know nothing about and for which my experience and training haven't prepared me at all. So now I'm back to feeling totally inadequate, waiting to be found out.

I do sometimes feel jealous of really confident people, but you wonder whether that is just a front, whether they feel the same inside.

I get a derivative of imposter syndrome in that I struggle to believe that what I do is actually technically a job. I just keep trying to keep the felt tips inside the lines and hope nobody notices

Another derivative of this is a mate who works at a senior level in IT who said “I’m not entirely sure what it is that I do”

Thanks all - helps to know I'm not the only one who gets this.

If you’re not relatively confident you can do whats on your CV then it probably shouldn’t be on there!

I get that, but everything on my CV I can (and have done) ... it's just part of me doesn't believe me. If that makes sense. My peers seem to think I'm pretty good at my job too - and I'm typically one of the go-to people if there is a problem/bug/question.

If you read the job spec and think “I can do that”, and the interview goes well, then you’re up to it.

Thats the thing, I'm pretty such I can do it... the spec reads just like my current day job. But they're offering a substantial increase in salary, and it makes me paranoid that either I'm underpaid in my current role, or that the prospective role has much higher standards to warrant the additional money.

I do with my super clued up German colleagues but I handed my notice in the other day and they're pooing themselves.
You sometimes know more than you think.

It’s normal right?

Judging from the replies thus far, yup, totally normal.

haha, brilliant thread. I'm glad im not alone in this.

I always get to the end of a week surprised that they havent realised i dont know what i am doing!!

As many have said tho, we must be doing something right to be given roles, responsibilities etc etc.

I say enjoy the ride 😀

Knowing enough to know what you don't know is an asset in itself.

<ageist> Some yoof seem to be in desperate need of learning a little of this alongside a touch of humility. It seems to be rather unfashionable in Gen Z </ageist>

Thats the thing, I’m pretty such I can do it… the spec reads just like my current day job. But they’re offering a substantial increase in salary, and it makes me paranoid that either I’m underpaid in my current role, or that the prospective role has much higher standards to warrant the additional money.

Most likely the former: bigger companies have more money to attract the best people.

I used to work for a small consultancy, we got acquired by a multinational and our pay literally doubled overnight. Ten years later I wanted a change, but the local jobs in smaller companies involved easily a 50% pay cut. Some companies just pay more.

Also worth pointing out that there is imposter syndrome, and then there are imposters.

One of my old bosses who worked at Director level basically fessed up to me at his retirement party that he had got away with it for 45 years but most of the time didn't have a clue what he was doing. Genuinely, no clue.

It's a yep from me, frequently have those moments thinking what the heck am I doing here. Job is quite senior, I have staff far more technically qualified than me etc, involves a lot pressure and difficult decisions. But here I am, still, feedback from those that matter is always very positive... so who's right..

A few thoughts from my experience recruiting and developing IT teams.

1) recruiters/agents are naturally optimistic about a candidates CV

2) If you go in to an interview for a 'stretch role' and you may are unsuccessful you may gain insights in to areas you need to grow your skills. When I did a lot of interviewing, I aimed to give immediate feedback to any candidates where the interview revealed gaps that made the candidate not viable.

3) I have seen many 'hires' respond really well from switching organisations and been given more responsibility and having to extend their technical skills fast. The key factors for success are a) being good at and enjoy learning new stuff b) having access to experienced colleague to point them in the right direction / ask the right question / collaborate in a tight 'situation'

4) I have seen new hires flounder where it is too much a stretch from existing skills and not a good more experienced collaborator with time for them. So find out more about the organisation and its culture. Ask if you can 'meet' (harder at the moment) with a member of the existing team for a 'coffee' chat. Does any one you know know some one who work there?

5) Interview yourself and ask yourself for examples of situations where you have been stretched technically and /or with level of responsibility you were given. If you have a number of examples where there was a positive outcome your can use that to give your self the confidence you can succeed in a new role. If you do not have these, then seek these in your current role.

6) The best senior techies/ developers have often got their experience by jumping in to new situations and using them to grow their skills and confidence. Some people 'just have' it, if you are the 'go to' person on your current team, sounds like you 'have it' and you would respond well to a rich learning experience.

“I’m not entirely sure what it is that I do”

Haha, this is me. I also often get to the end of the week wondering what it is that I've done. I know I've been busy, and it feels like it was productive, but sometimes it's all a bit ethereal. I think I've become a bit of an "enabler" rather than actually producing anything tangible, which doesn't help the imposter syndrome!

But they’re offering a substantial increase in salary

How long have you been in your current role? The only way to get a decent payrise is usually to move companies - wages mostly haven't kept up with inflation for a long time now so if you've been there for 5-10 years you might have lost track of the market, in which case the payrise makes sense.

Its become clear to me just how absolutely **** useless most people are.

somebody once told me "everybody's winging it in their own way". that resonated with me and ive always remembered that if i start to have similar thoughts to the OP.

Some yoof seem to be in desperate need of learning a little of this alongside a touch of humility. It seems to be rather unfashionable in Gen Z

so true. But, as older managerial types we need to manage them better as well, it's not just their problem.

As for the don't know what i do. When people ask me what my job is, I say in an ideal world I don't DO anything - but as a non-tech manager managing a team of super qualified technical people, I facilitate things so that they can do stuff that I can't.

Just look at the current tory party. Masquerading as world leaders.

😆 😆 😆

Does anyone else suffer with this

Does anyone not?

The only way to find out if you're an imposter is start at the top, go for the highest paid job and then drop down to a lower paid one if you it turns out you actually are an imposter.

Does anyone not?

This giant of a man doesn't. Woof!

I know I’ve been busy, and it feels like it was productive, but sometimes it’s all a bit ethereal. I think I’ve become a bit of an “enabler” rather than actually producing anything tangible

This is largely me too. My best days are when I've been thrown into the middle of a total cluster-youknowwhat that's been raging for weeks, unpick it all, come up with a solution, then palm it off onto someone else to actually implement. I'm paid to think rather than to do, and I'm... actually I'm quite comfortable with that now because as it turns out I appear to have something of an aptitude for it.

Yup. I had a big promotion a couple of years ago and ever since I've been wondering if I'm really up to it. I do think asking that question of yourself to a certain degree probably makes you better at your job, and there's always the re-assurance of the absolutely useless sods working at the same level, who are living proof of the Peter principle, and are outshone by any basic display of competence.

In my experience most people have a bit of this, some more than others. I definitely did and the best thing a coach asked me was 'Who do you think is going to catch you out ? Maybe they feel the same as you' and my dear old Dad who said "Main thing is just don't be a dick all the time, treat people with respect and how you would like to be treated and if you don't know something say so"
That literally was the only useful advice he ever gave me.
I'm quite senior and still wonder htf i have got away with it for so long

I’m paid to think rather than to do, and I’m… actually I’m quite comfortable with that now because as it turns out I appear to have something of an aptitude for it.

You are me and I claim my £5

Does anyone not?

That, really that.  Also remember that most job adverts are written for someone that doesn't really exist.  Treat it like their aspirational list rather than a requirement and you will be closer to the truth and should be happier with yourself.  I wish the folks writing these would be more accurate as then we might get a bigger pool of people

Also remember that most job adverts are written for someone that doesn’t really exist. Treat it like their aspirational list rather than a requirement

That's a whole other level of shittery and it's boiled my dog's frozen sausages for as long as I've been out of academia.

Firstly they all too often appear to have been written by someone with no clue of the job role or otherwise detached from reality. "Front line tech support. Required: Degree, MCSE."

Secondly it's rare that job adverts aren't 100% one-way. We want this, you will be that. What's in it for me then, dickhead?

I quit a job once in an appraisal because my boss said I was rubbish at it. The response was inviting me carry on doing the same job on a contract @2.5x the rate because they could find nobody else to do it.

Yes, 100% I do.

Go for the highest paid role and fake it til ya make it! Everyone is doing it. Especially in tech, you can't be expected to know all the stuff you need and will soon pick it up on the job anyway.

I get this too, always have. I remember being selected as school football captain and thinking perhaps they had me confused with another kid as there was no way I was good enough.

More recently I read a job description and thought I'd never get the job before realising it is for my current job!

do with my super clued up German colleagues

Ahh working with German who are definitely 100% right no point even considering they might be possibly wrong up until you layout a massive long dossier cross refferenced of why they are wrong. Then they are wrong

Secondly it’s rare that job adverts aren’t 100% one-way. We want this, you will be that. What’s in it for me then, dickhead?

Pay:
Market rate. (Our invented market rate)

Does anyone not?

I don't.

Screw you, hippy. (-:

Pay:
Market rate. (Our invented market rate)

See also:

Competitive.
Negotiable.
Flexible based on qualifications and experience.

All euphemisms for "however little we can get away with and still have you agree to it."

I suffer from it and I spend most of my time trying to convince others that I'm not as good as they think I am, then again I work with real imposters who have seemingly come to terms with their lack of ability, some think they are great and tell everyone, on reflection I think my reticence in doing this makes me look like I really am good...I'm not and it's not an act, I'm rubbish and I work with people who are even worse.

Boris Johnstone.

Yes. Very often worried I'm not doing well enough and it's all going to come crashing down soon, upon which I'm going to have to take an easier job and a big paycut. I cope with that by basically living life as if that's already happened. Yet I'm also even more concerned about others' lack of competence. I privately dismiss positive feedback I receive on the grounds that the person giving it is not well-informed or has not the competence to give meaningful feedback. Always think when asked to do something that it's because I'm the only person that happens to be free, surely we have someone better who should be doing this etc.

When I've been promoted in the past I would still (in my head at least), cling to my previous job title as I thought my new title might be temporary and be demoted after I get found out.

On another note.....

When I read about conspiracy theories where there is a super organised elite who control everything I have little chuckle to myself. Because when I look at the current government and senior management at my company I can only see people 'winging it' and running around reacting to the next problem.

Work i used to turn up every day expecting to be sacked.

I still do. I’m also not very good at being an adult either. Find it very difficult to be serious at all. Constantly feel I’m either not doing enough or I’m way out of my depth and should be stacking shelves or something.

I have found that the worst people to work with are ones that speak in bullshit bingo and what I term the dangerous idiot. The clearly inept and slightly thick that are convinced they’re the smartest person on earth. They are a nightmare if left to their own devices.

As someone pointed out earlier, most people are actually pretty crap at their job. After working for many years you should be able to pick out the bullshitters, the average plodders and the genuinely good. As long as you are not a bulllshitter or an average plodder then nothing to worry about really. If your work is good (and you have been told that) then just carry on and don't overthink whether you are good enough, too good etc,.

As someone pointed out earlier, most people are actually pretty crap at their job.

Clearly, 50% of people are of below average capability. Which is OK if everyone does jobs that they are overcapable of doing so that the threshold for not being dangerous at it falls well below that 50%. But ambition and the like often means it's above.

Two of my Dad's old phrases...

"In the kingdom of the blind, the one eyed man is King

and

"Either I'm a genius or they're all idiots. And I'm no genius....

I still do. I’m also not very good at being an adult either. Find it very difficult to be serious at all. Constantly feel I’m either not doing enough or I’m way out of my depth and should be stacking shelves or something.

I have found that the worst people to work with are ones that speak in bullshit bingo and what I term the dangerous idiot. The clearly inept and slightly thick that are convinced they’re the smartest person on earth. They are a nightmare if left to their own devices.

100% this. I often sit in boardrooms (now virtual boardrooms) with senior people that have impressive job titles, and at 49 I’m convinced I’m the only child in the room. And re the second para, we’ve gone through a lot of mis management at work lately and although I and others can and do easily voice the bleedin’ obvious, people above us are still spouting American corporate words as if that alone will make everything better.