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Interesting talk on Radio 4 this morning regarding trade deals with America and the fact that American meat is full of chemicals that aren't allowed in Europe.
What surprised me the most that no one mentioned how this would effect British farmers not even radio 4 mentioned it. It seems that the chief farmer guy for the UK was bothered about the chemicals. - yet up in arms over the milk scandal!
Glad the government supports British farmers !
...
Well there's obviously a large amount of meat imported already from all over. 2 million tonnes, or 45% of meat consumed apparently.
inb4 #brexit#trump#racist#lies#posttruth#endoftheworld
5 years after Brexit there won't be any farming in U.K. so won't need a chief farmer.
Rachel
https://www.usmef.org/news-statistics/statistics/
Last year about 20,000t of beef to German, Netherlands and Italy none to the UK. Drop in the option really, probably about 40 decent beef cattle? So probably came in as something strange.
It seems that the chief farmer guy for the UK was bothered about the chemicals. - yet up in arms over the milk scandal!
Is that a typo?
What milk scandal?
Most US produced meat does not meet the standards required to be sold in the EU. too full of hormones and antibiotics
Alan Partridge explains American farming methods...
And yes... Trumps proposed trade deal will be to tell us to bend over, on this and so many other issues. Anyone who thinks otherwise is totally delusional.
For example... a few years ago we used to design games machines involving silk screen printing on to glass. All printing was done in the US. When I asked why, I was told that they use more resonant inks in the states.
They're more resonant because they're full of lead and mercury as the Americans don't give a toss about environmental controls, and were all totally illegal in the EU
Most US produced meat does not meet the standards required to be sold in the EU. too full of hormones and antibiotics
That's the point. US farmers are looking forward to flooding our supermarkets with their crap post-Brexit.
chief farmer guy
Woah! Calm down with the details. Dumb it down for the layman, please.
Jamie - Member
chief farmer guy
Woah! Calm down with the details. Dumb it down for the layman, please.
I was driving on the outside lane of the M45.5 in my Audi A6 estate gti/ghia at 300 mph forgive me if I was in a hurry to type...
...be more concerned about the cr4p you could be eating in a few years
Are we going to have to eat that disgusting white "butter" they put up with in the US?
Apparently they can't get yellow butter cos the cows don't eat enough grass. All I know is that the white "butter" is pretty nasty.
...be more concerned about the cr4p you could be eating in a few years
Why will you be eating crap?
American beef falls way below our standards, regarding antibiotics, steroids and other stuff.
At the moment we could be about 75% self sufficient in beef. We export quite a bit, so about 50% is imported. If our export market is reduced post brexit then we can reduce our imports, possibly even increase production?
However, you don't have to eat imported meat, I know I don't. I always check where it comes from, besides, particularly with beef and lamb, we produce the best in the World.
You can but USA pork from the meat counter in Costco (in the Glasgow one at least).
Beef farming like milk in the UK is a pretty marginal business.
Any cuts to farm subsidies will see the farms go under.
Without the sheer drive of the French farmers to maintain subsidies, Westminster will slash them.
Importing nice meat from Europe will be expensive.
Hello cheap American meat.
Any cuts to farm subsidies will see the farms go under.Without the sheer drive of the French farmers to maintain subsidies, Westminster will slash them.
Why will they slash subsidies?
nice meat from Europe
Like that lovely Polish chicken? 🙄
Why will they slash subsidies?
Because they want to reduce taxes and there is a very real chance of a recession. the 350 million has been promised 10x over so something has to give
Why are people trying to hold up China as an example to the West?
well if the tories have spent teh last 10 years slashed funding for libraries, social care, councils, policing, prisons etc etc
what makes you think they wont do the same for farming sunsidies
Like that lovely Polish chicken?
meh battery farm is battery farm, unless you have something against poles?
meh battery farm is battery farm
It's really not.
unless you have something against poles?
FFS. 🙄
oh tell me more.....
aaaaaaaaand we're off!
oh tell me more.....
[url= https://www.rspca.org.uk/adviceandwelfare/farm/meatchickens/farming ]https://www.rspca.org.uk/adviceandwelfare/farm/meatchickens/farming[/url]
[url= http://assurance.redtractor.org.uk/standards/search?c=11 ]http://assurance.redtractor.org.uk/standards/search?c=11[/url]
Importing nice meat from Europe will be expensive.
Making lovely UK meat more competitive.
No need for taxpayer handouts!
you are so gullable gobbuchul
and more OT
etc
how is this worse than poland
#alternative facts wont do,
If you can justify your bigotry please go ahead
Why will they slash subsidies?
The tories favour a reduced state, hence their rhetoric around austerity. Anything the government has been able to slash, they have been. And that was during 'the good times".
With a recession looming, they will have the justification to slash more.
The EU has ring fenced farm subsidies, mainly due to pressure of French farmers. Theres no way our own farmers have as much leverage in the Westminster bubble as French farmers do in the EU, nowhere near!
Our farming industry is not geared up to compete in a world market, it barely survives in a protected EU market.
And I didn't even mention migrant labour.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-38510423
you are so gullable gobbuchul
Not at all. There will always be people who bend and break rules.
The simple fact is that if you can transport chicken 1000 miles, still sell it cheaply and make a profit, then you must be cutting corners somewhere.
If you can justify your bigotry please go ahead
Where is the bigotry?
You can but USA pork from the meat counter in Costco (in the Glasgow one at least).
It's downright weird though. My OH buys it when I'm not there to stop her. It's so soft (too many hormones making them grow quickly, too much water, too much salt? I've no idea) you can barely chew it before it's gone.
Has anyone actually confirmed that the UK won't be keeping the current EU food standards after Brexit?
Personally I am happy to eat less meat in exchange for better quality/welfare. I realise I am in a minority here though! I also think importing/exporting foodstuffs should be the exception rather than the norm.Making lovely UK meat more competitive.
As such I'm conflicted about subsidies... on the one hand I think it's ultimately self-defeating to prop up an industry, but I also think it's important for the UK to produce as much of it's own food as possible to cut down on food miles.
zilog6128 - Member
Has anyone actually confirmed that the UK won't be keeping the current EU food standards after Brexit?
What!!! The UK has no idea what is going to happen
american meat is tasty and cheap. I'm all for it.
It's so soft
They are forced to put on weight quickly, hormones and steroids I think.
Fed on fish meal for a lot of their lives, then taken off the fish meal a couple of weeks before slaughter because it will smell and taste fishy if not.
The fish meal feed is used for cheap pork in the UK and Europe as well, but don't think the same level of hormones and steroids are permitted.
american meat is tasty and cheap. I'm all for it.
your body and science may not thank you for that.... there is a really good reason why the EU has it's laws and rules on food
Of course the UK can't keep up the current standards, it's got a trade deal with the USA to arrange. What do you think that's going to mean other than opening up our market to USA agricultural produce? And it's not as if they are going to change their standards to suit us.
The NFU man was just saying that at a minimum we have to be able to adopt the same standards here to compete.
You can but USA pork from the meat counter in Costco (in the Glasgow one at least).It's downright weird though. My OH buys it when I'm not there to stop her. It's so soft (too many hormones making them grow quickly, too much water, too much salt? I've no idea) you can barely chew it before it's gone.
I've never actually had the guts to try it, can't see how you can grow something so far away and ship/fly it here to sell for less than the UK pork next to it without quality suffering. I did ask the butcher there once about it, he said it was better quality and tastier than the UK stuff. I didn't know what to make of that as the butchers there have been pretty good (and seemingly honest) at answering questions before.
So we are potentially 75% self sufficient in meat production.
We have higher welfare standards than current EU rules.
We currently import a lot of meat from Countries with lower welfare standards than our own. Including EU members.
[url= https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2010/feb/16/meat-imports-animal-welfare-standards ]https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2010/feb/16/meat-imports-animal-welfare-standards[/url]
Generally speaking, meat produced with higher welfare standards is of better quality.
Currently the USA can export any meat to us and the EU without a problem. But they don't appear to. Why will that change after Brexit?
The EU still has significant over production and needs to export. Why will they stop exporting to us after Brexit?
Personally it won't make much difference to me as I don't knowingly eat imported meat anyway.
I live in the US. Some of the packaging for meat or Dairy has the statement that Hormone supplemented meat/dairy has the same nutritional value as non supplemented foods and the FDA has shown there is no effect on humans (or words to that effect).
All I know is if I have the hormone laced milk or the girl eats the meat we both end up feeling bad after a few meals. Also oddly the milk makes me gain weight and bloat up.
I often wonder if there is no impact from the hormones and additives why breast feeding women are told to be careful about what they eat etc. Different species but if bad things can pass into milk when humans make it then they probably do with cows.
In any event my recommendation would be to not buy cheap US imported meats if you can afford it.
Of course the UK can't keep up the current standards, it's got a trade deal with the USA to arrange.
That's the concern isn't it? In arranging trade deals with other countries we potentially have to relax our regulations to allow their stuff in - to the detriment of our producers. Once cheap, nasty stuff starts flowing in that's yet more trouble for our farmers.
Personally I am happy to eat less meat in exchange for better quality/welfare.
I do the same. All my meat comes from a high quality butcher. But if the farmers supplying that meat go out of business, then what? I'll be asking advice on recipes from the veggies.
The UK has, in general, been ahead of the rest of the EU in food standards. Our pig rearing standards are above other EU countries (but they are allowed to sell here); our (not mandatory) red tractor puts higher standards on poultry than the EU does; we were about the first to ban crated veal; etc. No reason to expect that to change.
I'm pretty sure that Trump and May are both keen for a US-UK trade deal. I'm also pretty sure that they have completely different ideas about what one will look like.
That's the concern isn't it? In arranging trade deals with other countries we potentially have to relax our regulations to allow their stuff in - to the detriment of our producers. Once cheap, nasty stuff starts flowing in that's yet more trouble for our farmers.
Like our EU membership requires. If it comes from within the single market, we must accept it on our shelves regardless of whether it meets our national requirements or not.
But then when the French maintained a ban on British beef well after it is legal, that's all OK then...
[url= http://edition.cnn.com/2017/01/19/health/spilled-skittles-road-trnd/ ]Cows eat grass right?, nope....the US feeds them skittles[/url], Nothing at all wrong with doing that is there?, apart from the fact that cows are ****ing ruminants you thick bastards.
So a UK-US trade deal..
top of the us shopping list
Electronic equipment: US$332.9 billion (14.4% of total US imports)
Machines, engines, pumps: $329.3 billion (14.3%)
Vehicles: $283.8 billion (12.3%)
Oil: $201.2 billion (8.7%)
Pharmaceuticals: $86.1 billion (3.7%)
Medical, technical equipment: $78.3 billion (3.4%)
Furniture, lighting, signs: $61.2 billion (2.6%)
Gems, precious metals: $60.2 billion (2.6%)
Organic chemicals: $52.1 billion (2.3%)
Plastics: $50.2 billion (2.2%)
So we have a shot at Pharma and cars (so long as the UK stays making cars)
and strangely the export list shares a lot 🙂
Machines, engines, pumps: US$205.8 billion (13.7% of total exports)
Electronic equipment: $169.8 billion (11.3%)
Aircraft, spacecraft: $131.1 billion (8.7%)
Vehicles: $127.1 billion (8.4%)
Oil: $106.1 billion (7.1%)
Medical, technical equipment: $83.4 billion (5.5%)
Plastics: $60.3 billion (4%)
Gems, precious metals, coins: $58.7 billion (3.9%)
Pharmaceuticals: $47.3 billion (3.1%)
Organic chemicals: $38.8 billion (2.6%)
somafunk
Cows eat grass right?, nope....the US feeds them skittles, Nothing at all wrong with doing that is there?, apart from the fact that cows are **** ruminants you thick bastards.
Pretty common over hear to feed cows molasses.
Once cheap, nasty stuff starts flowing in that's yet more trouble for our farmers.
Cheap nasty stuff has been flowing in for decades from Brazil, Uruguay etc.
How can New Zealand lamb be sold as fresh? It's transported for 4 weeks!
We also produce plenty of cheap nasty stuff ourselves. Bernard Mathews turkey anyone?
We used to feed them each other as well. Wonder how that ended up.
Like our EU membership requires. If it comes from within the single market, we must accept it on our shelves regardless of whether it meets our national requirements or not.
But we have a say (however theoretical) in how the EU regulates food production. (Well, we used to).
I don't think we have a say in what the FDA decides about US food production.
But then when the French maintained a ban on British beef well after it is legal, that's all OK then...
They were eventually stopped though, by of all people, the EU!
You really couldn't make this stuff up.
I did ask the butcher there once about it, he said it was better quality and tastier than the UK stuff. I didn't know what to make of that as the butchers there have been pretty good (and seemingly honest) at answering questions before.
With a level head you could use words like 'succulent, juicy, tender' to describe the USA stuff, and 'tough, gristly, dry' to describe the UK stuff. so it may be better. But it's just not what you expect from Pork chops, IME.
Pretty common over hear to feed cows molasses.
Usually as part of a vitamin/salt supplement in winter though, not as a staple? IANAF (but I did live on one).
And what about other American foodstuffs? The amount of artificial flavourings and colourings they use is staggering. We were there a few years ago and the cakes/sweets made one of our young (3 years old) daughters go absolutely batshit. As soon as we started checking the artificial ingredients she went back to normal.
We found one chocolate cake that had artificial red, yellow, blue, green etc added – all just to make it look darker and more chocolatey.
And what about other American foodstuffs?
mmmmmmm twinkie....
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Bought a bag of "reduced salt" almonds in the US.
As salty as salty French butter!
What the normal salted ones must of been like I can't imagine.
Our pig rearing standards are above other EU countries (but they are allowed to sell here)
That's the point. Our farmers are subject to certain standards (quite rightly) but imports don't have to meet the same standards. That in my book is simply wrong.
Just imagine if, while we were members of the sainted EU, we had been subjected to repeated scandals were our Steaks were made of Zebu, our mince was 50% horse, and that most of the cows that didn't go mad had to be shot because of communicable diseases?
Actually the EU is in the process of overhauling its animal welfare legislation
only 4 british MEPs (all greens) voted in favour of the latest proposal
Of course we will no longer have any influence on the new startagey being developed at the moment
Im sure we will definitely Tell trump how to raise welfare standards though 😉
ninfan - Member
Just imagine if, while we were members of the sainted EU, we had been subjected to repeated scandals were our Steaks were made of Zebu, our mince was 50% horse, and that most of the cows that didn't go mad had to be shot because of communicable diseases?
eh?
ate a lot of burgers in the 90s? 😉
They were eventually stopped though, by of all people, the EU!
It took them 10 months (ish) after the court ruling before they started accepting imports. All the way through, France ignored the rules and largely ignored the court judgement.
And the penalty that the EU imposed on France for an illegal three year long ban on our beef was?
That's the point. Our farmers are subject to certain standards (quite rightly) but imports don't have to meet the same standards. That in my book is simply wrong.
I concur. It is one of the problems with the single market. But the solutions are that you either dismantle the single market or you relax our standards - neither of which I particularly like.
In some product categories it is more of a theoretical problem (e.g. we could make tougher national rules on car production, but we'd still need to accept any car with EU type approval). Food, and animal welfare, is where it causes more problems. Especially as most people do their food shopping on the basis of price or brand, not quality.
thisisnotaspoon
Pretty common over hear to feed cows molasses.
Usually as part of a vitamin/salt supplement in winter though, not as a staple? IANAF (but I did live on one).
Well supplement is an open ended term but if you mean poured on feed/haylage and through lick drums then yes because that's what I've seen. A quick google suggests between 3-5kg per cow per day or up to 20% of their diet.
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Pretty common over hear to feed cows molasses.
Is that a bad thing?
Vegetable based, high carb food and I bet the cows like it.
It's not like they need to worry about the long term health implications of eating such large quantities of sugar..........
In some product categories it is more of a theoretical problem (e.g. we could make tougher national rules on car production, but we'd still need to accept any car with EU type approval).
Well, that did happen, the other way around, the German reputation for engineering excellence is based on their standards being higher than everyone else which made exporting anything mechanical to Germany, difficult.
If only there had been some sort of Europe wide union that could impose equal standards across Europe so we could sell Nissan Micras made in Sunderland to Germany.
Well supplement is an open ended term but if you mean poured on feed/haylage and through lick drums then yes because that's what I've seen. A quick google suggests between 3-5kg per cow per day or up to 20% of their diet.
Doesn't seem an unreasonable amount, without that sort of feed to supplement hay, haylage and silage we'd have to go back to killing all the livestock in the Autumn because they'd freeze/starve to death over the winter. Grass doesn't grow over winter and Daisy needs to eat something!
20% probably compares to the average weekend warriors intake of jelly babies and flapjack on a cold lap of a trail centre :p
unsurprisingly the kippers voted against the resolution to overhaul animal welfare legislation at the EU....
gobuchul
Pretty common over hear to feed cows molasses.Is that a bad thing?
I don't know and I'm not going to pretend to. I was just replying to someone who claimed that Americans were "thick bastards" for feeding their cows skittles (sugar and corn syrup) when we feed our cows huge amounts of various sugar mixtures.
thisisnotaspoonDoesn't seem an unreasonable amount, without that sort of feed to supplement hay, haylage and silage we'd have to go back to killing all the livestock in the Autumn because they'd freeze/starve to death over the winter. Grass doesn't grow over winter and Daisy needs to eat something!
I can't say with any authority but it seems kind of high to me. Probably a lot more than most people would imagine at least. My guess is it'll be to keep the cattle at a certain weight or level of milk production as opposed to keeping them alive.
We used to put molasses on poorer quality hay so that cattle would eat it but it wasn't a huge quantity - we'd use maybe 3Kg a day for the forty cattle that were housed indoors - that's 3Kg for the whole lot not per animal.
Milk production has been very input focussed for a long time - basically if you want milk with x% protein and Y% fats then you need to feed the cows a certain amount of silage along with a precise amount of feed concentrate. This is done at the level of each cow, they all have collars around their necks and the system knows how much milk and what quality she's producing and will adjust her feed accordingly.
If only there had been some sort of Europe wide union that could impose equal standards across Europe so we could sell Nissan Micras made in Sunderland to Germany.
I'm pretty sure my post is clear that this rule exists and that, in some areas, it can cause problems.
Such as allowing imports of anything Italian or French that contains moving parts.
5 years after Brexit there won't be any farming in U.K. so won't need a chief farmer.
Rachel
Come on Rachel 😯 Aside from buying all your bikes for £10 each I'm willing to take a very large bet that there will be some farming in the UK 5 years after Brexit. Even if I have to do the farming that's a bet I can't possibly lose.
Ok jamby you win you've found a lying liar to criticise for lying. Well done!
Jamba there won't be a UK so hence no farming in UK.
Rachel your bikes are safe.
Jamba there won't be a UK so hence no farming in UK
It could be the United Kingdom of England.