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Interesting...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-17204297
So given that plenty of immigrants are happy to work in low paid jobs in the UK because it's better than they could achieve in their own country, who will fill those jobs once the salary threshold kicks in???
That's an interesting figure, as it's more than I earn as a 'government employee'.Migrant workers will need to earn at least £35,000 to qualify for settlement in the UK, says the Home Office.
There is a get-out clause of course "[i]The £35,000 earnings threshold will be waived for any "shortage occupations" if official advisers tell ministers that the UK needs more workers with skills or training.[/i]", so probably won't make the slightest difference as it will only apply to people who wish to remain after working here for 5 years.
of course, most immigrants to the UK are from the EU/EEC and these rules can't apply to them anyway.
and only people from outside the EU where we hardly let any in anyway
wish I could get sent abroad for earning less than £35k!
... who will fill those jobs once the salary threshold kicks in???
Romanian, Bulgarian, Turks etc ... former eastern block members ... and all those illegals.
only people from outside the EU where we hardly let any in anyway
Cough, splutter... <looks around the typical office in an IT department> coughs and splutters some more....
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/feb/28/companies-bypassing-immigration-cap
and only people from outside the EU where we hardly let any in anyway
The estimated number of citizens of the EU countries immigrating long-term to the UK in the year to June 2011 was 175,000.
The estimated number of non-EU citizens immigrating long-term to the UK in the year to June 2011 was 330,000.
[url] http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/dcp171778_256050.pdf [/url]
have to agree with allthepies there...
The estimated number of non-EU citizens immigrating long-term to the UK in the year to June 2011 was 330,000.
And yet according to the OP's link the Home Sectary claims that this change [i]"would help cut the number of non-Europeans and their dependants granted settlement each year from 60,000 to 20,000"[/i]
Your link suggests that [i]"Study remains the most common reason for migrating to the UK at 242,000 in the year to June 2011"[/i] So maybe the bulk of non-EU immigrants don't, as opposed to EU immigrants, come to work ? The UK is the second biggest destination for overseas students in the world - it's big business..
Thought you were a bit anti-immigration, ernie?
ernie_lynch - Member
The UK is the second biggest destination for overseas students in the world - it's big business..
If the government continues the way it is the number will drop dramatically. We've had to scrap two masters courses which attracted students from outside the UK because of changes to visa regs.
Thought you were a bit anti-immigration, ernie?
😕 Don't know what you're on about. Or why that would reflect on my post.
Like most people I believe that there should be some sort of control on immigration. And for that reason I am totally opposed to the open-door policy of the EU. Furthermore I strongly believe that people from Commonwealth countries should be given priority over others. But I have no problem with immigration otherwise - I am an immigrant myself.
Does this extend to all jobs?
As a staff nurse I will [i]never[/i] earn £36k particularly under the current climate of austerity. I do worry about this in the context of the huge reliance of both the public and the private health sector on HCA's and nurses from outside the EU. I know many excellent non-eu sub 36k health workers who have been here longer than 5 years, are we going to send them 'home'? And who will we recruit to replace them? Your skill as a nurse is helped or hindered by your undertanding of both the culture and value of your patients, and your understanding of the non-nursing organisational aspects of the health and social care system. Which of course you learn on the job when you begin working in a new country, same goes for my friends who are now nursing in Australia and NZ. Simply getting shot of nurses and HCA's who have been here 5 years only to have to replace them with ones who have been here zero years is plain silly.
I know a few eastern european lads who work for half of what the other tradesman earn and send the majority of it home, so the wage is not even recycled into the country....
Furthermore I strongly believe that people from Commonwealth countries should be given priority over others
why's that then?
Because of greater responsibility and historical ties.
Not neccesarily opposed to the spirit of the thing- ie, making sure that the people being granted permanent residency as as they say the "brightest and the best", but salary's hardly a reliable way to evaluate that...
And then, £35000, after 5 years? For comparison points, the average graduate salary after 5 years in employment is £39000. The average (median) wage is £20800- and of course that's raised by the fact that the highest earners have been working for 20-25 years not 5. Barely more than in in 10 employed British nationals manages to earn £35000.
(possibly also worth mentioning just to tick off an -ism, that on average women's wages are still substantially lower than men's, in all age brackets. And of course that you're far more likely to earn £35000 in London than in Yorkshire.
But then this is the same government that's come up with the brilliant idea of making it harder for foreign students to get tier 4 student visas- despite the fact that they're a massive revenue stream for the country.
[i]As a staff nurse I will never earn £36k particularly under the current climate of austerity[/i]
Not as a Staff Nurse, but as a Sister/Charge Nurse, if you work nights and weekends and Christmas and Easter, and do it until you eventually reach the top of band 6, you might get there. It's not worth it, but it's doable.
Crikey, I managed to scrape 36k one year as a band 6, but that was with plenty of nights, on-calls and on-call-induced overtime. How many non-EU nurses are likely to get 36k? To get from the bottom of B5 where they will start as they have no nhs increments to the bottom of B6 if they manage to get one, and then high enough up the B6 payscale is most unlikely for any nurse.
To not have a B6 post (one in eight nursing posts in my department) and not be touching 36k after 5 years of nursing does not necessarily reflect badly on your skill and dedication! But hey, let's not let a good thing get in the way of the blind headlong pursuit of one's [s]mail readers[/s] principles.
I know a few eastern european lads who work for half of what the other tradesman earn and send the majority of it home, so the wage is not even recycled into the country....
Did you ever see auf wiedersehen pet?
One of the things about being in the EU is the freedom to travel. Don't like it? There may be a referendum one day so you may get the opportunity to vote against it.
I don't have a problem with the euros coming here to work, as long as they pay tax. As shown on auf wiedersehen, we will do it ourselves when it suits.
The tightening of letting in non EU types is long overdue. Have you seen how difficult it is to get into Oz, NZ or Canada? Nothing wrong with a few more controls.
Julianwilson makes a good point. Sticking a round £35k on the policy and saying you have to leave if you cant make that is a little arbitrary, doesnt take into account the industry or geography.
doesnt take into account the industry or geography.
....which the US, Canada, Australia and NZ do to some extent. You can live there on a modest salary as a taxpayer if they need you for a particular job, but you could be earning $150k and if they don't need $150k estate agents then they send you home anyway.
Wrecker, i done it and put plenty back into the local economy.....
What, Germany or work abroad?
I think it's a bit of a stretch to say that the euros working here don't put back into our economy. They pay income tax (an assumption granted), are taxed on all of their food and drink, accomodation etc
Because of greater responsibility and historical ties.
I can see that we have historical ties to members of the commonwealth but I don't think that that's any reason to special privileges.
As for responsibility, what responsibility do we still have for former colonies that were grated independance more than 50 years ago? Sorry but I personally don't feel any responsibility for those countries. Had independence just been granted then yes I would agree but over half a centuary later, no.
Did you ever see auf wiedersehen pet?
One of the best documentaries I've ever seen 🙂
Sorry but I personally don't feel any responsibility for those countries.
But you think we have a responsibility to say Bulgaria or Greece ? I can't see the logic in that.
Our head of state is also the head of state of about another 16 countries, which suggests that the UK shares some responsibility. The UK certainly has [i]more[/i] responsibility towards them than towards Bulgaria or Greece. Although I would would argue that the UK has no moral responsibility at all in allowing unfettered immigration from countries such as Bulgaria or Greece.
An open-door immigration policy for a country such as the UK makes no sense at all. Specially as it leads to the inevitable and you simply import other country's unemployment problem - the UK government has no responsibility in trying to solve the unemployment problems of other counties for them.
And I don't know why you make an issue of the fact that Commonwealth countries are now independent - all the countries which the open-door policy applies to are independent nations. So if independence absolves Britain's responsibilities then that should apply equally to all countries - without special privileges for non-Commonwealth countries.
As I say, I have no issue with immigration other than the obvious nonsense which states that if potentially millions want to immigrate to any European country, then they should be allowed to do so without any restriction or concern for the consequences.
Synopsis?
Does it have any relevance to the local nedlets in the park today saying "they can't understand a *ing word we're saying, they're all *ing polish" when referring to my kids.
I think we need to start another round of shipping folk to far off lands - starting with neds and anyone who cant be bothered to move their backside off the sofa. Outer Mongolia should have the space for them.
ernie - my view of the issues with east European immigrants is its because when they joined the euro the exchange rate was set too low - this means low wages here become very attractive to them and also property there seems cheap to us (or the germans)
It will settle out as wages and infaltion catch up in Poland and other countries to iron out the diffeerences and make moving here for work less atactive - also our rising unemployment will do the same.
It must havehad undesriable effects in Poland as well with so many of its yong motivated people leaving.
I see this as only a temporary state of affairs that wil correct in time to come
also our rising unemployment will do the same.
Great. So the way to deal with the obvious consequences of this ridiculous open-door policy is to bump up unemployment and generally make the UK less attractive for anyone who wants to stroll in without any restrictions.
Let's hope unemployment doesn't come down or that wages start going up, eh ?
Otherwise we will get a sudden huge influx of people who will push up unemployment and drive down wages.
So the solution to unemployment and low wages is, more unemployment and low wages.
It all makes perfect sense. In Fairyland.
It will settle out as wages and infaltion catch up in Poland and other countries to iron out the diffeerences and make moving here for work less atactive - also our rising unemployment will do the same.
Without googling, but asking the two Polish relatives sat next to me, unemployment is currently circa 13% officially and 25% unofficially. There's also a fairly large wage gap between the sexes, which combined with the culture can encourage young educated Polish women our way. I think we're a fairly long way from parity TJ. Also, most of the Polish people I know have settled and consider their future to be here.
What visa for Fairyland?
Richpenny is right most of the Polish people who work under me are settled and staying.
Personally I wouldn't employ another as I find them rude and extremely greedy. Its the worst thing that could of happened to this country, the great has gone forever.
All the poles I know are here for a few years to accumulate money to take home
I know two who are living in Edinburgh at the moment TJ, maybe I should introduce you 🙂
I like the idea of shipping the dossers off round the world
Personally I wouldn't employ another as I find them rude and extremely greedy.
Certainly those I've met tend to be much more direct. And their culture has different norms to ours. I can forget that my wife reeling off a list of things that she would have done differently for the cooking is not the massive faux pas for her that it would be for me.
All the poles I know don't do pole dancing and with limited sense of humour ... 🙄
They don't understand that human are bunch of maggots to be stepped on ...
Personally I wouldn't employ another as I find them rude and extremely greedy.
It must be you and the way you interact with them, which probably speaks volumes about you - I find no such thing.
I do find them to unsurprisingly, often have a rather backward attitude towards a multicultural society though. I somehow doubt whether they would be quite so tolerant of a couple of million or so immigrants into their country.
It must be you and the way you interact with them, which probably speaks volumes about you - I find no such thing.
It must be me that makes them greedy!!!! How????
The rudeness is toward english workers not me as I'm their Manager! There is a definite divide between the two, we found once the poles were the majority of workers they became their own union and started demanding overtime and more holidays so they can go and visit Poland!!
We should invest in our own people end of.
I know a few eastern european lads who work for half of what the other tradesman earn and send the majority of it home, so the wage is not even recycled into the country....
You're not thinking about where the other "unpaid" half of that wage is...
we found once the poles were the majority of workers they became their own union and started demanding overtime and more holidays so they can go and visit Poland!!
There's only two outcomes there:
1) you were legally obliged to pay more overtime and holidays, and they were entitled to it
2) you weren't legally obliged to pay more overtime and holidays, and you told them to ram it because the market dictated the price you were paying and there were plenty of other people willing to take the job...
...right?
TandemJeremy - Member
ernie - my view of the issues with east European immigrants is its because when they joined the euro the exchange rate was set too low - this means low wages here become very attractive to them and also property there seems cheap to us (or the germans)It will settle out as wages and infaltion catch up in Poland and other countries to iron out the diffeerences and make moving here for work less atactive - also our rising unemployment will do the same.
It must havehad undesriable effects in Poland as well with so many of its yong motivated people leaving.
I see this as only a temporary state of affairs that wil correct in time to come
Blimey TJ - are you applying for a job at the Adam Smith Institute? It must be something about the Scottish air that converts you all to free-marketeers!!! 😉
no 2
Regarding Commonwealth countries, lets just forget about them helping us out in 2 world wars.
We owe them.
What connection do we have with the Democratic Republic Of Congo? How the ---k did we think letting those 'witch' killers in was of benefit to our country. Yes I am angry.
How the ---k did we think letting those 'witch' killers in was of benefit to our country
Dey do dough, don't dey do?
How the ---k did we think letting those 'witch' killers in was of benefit to our country
I suspect an official at passport control was slacking and didn't notice "witch killer" written in the 'what profession' space.
Otherwise yes, you're right - it's hard to imagine what someone was thinking when they decided that it would be of benefit to Britain to allow a couple of witch killers in.
Actually it's quite frankly a disgrace.
Hang on now, you mean that the murdered lad was actually a witch?