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If you bought an item on the classifieds and it never showed up what would you expect to happen
Bearing in mind it was sent ordinary post (not recorded) and the buyer has no proof of postage
Would you expect
1) A refund
2) Told to get stuffed
When this has happened to me(twice)I have always refunded the buyer and claimed the money back, in fact I now only sent stuff signed for
This has really pissed me off and just want to know my thoughts are not flawed.
Cheers
I'd expect the first option; you've paid for the parts to fall through your letterbox - not for the seller to simply post and then waiver all responsibility.
Refund, if they're too tight to take the responsibility to pay a few £ extra for recorded delivery of some kind then they should expect to refund when problems happen.
Definitely a refund - it's up to them to claim compensation from the PO and if they didn't get proof of postage then they should suck it up and refund you anyway.
Name and shame.
Whenever I've sold anything in the past, even some bar ends, I've always paid for 'signed for - recorded'
Not that hard is it.
What value was the item? If it's less than £39 I think the seller can claim a refund if it has gone missing via the receipt he/she would have got if they posted it. Therefore he/she would be able to refund you and claim the money back from the Post Office as well. If the value is higher than £39 not sure what the situation is.
wasn't called Whipit aka terry/john nichols by any chance was it?
If the value is higher than £39 not sure what the situation is.
They always ask you how much the item is worth and check if you want to insure it for over that amount.
name and shame, then we can all steer clear..
They always ask you how much the item is worth and check if you want to insure it for over that amount.
No they don't- I'm only asked this for standard parcels/special delivery.
You can't insure a normal first/second class item past the 100X the value of the relevant stamp cost thats included.
If the item is worth less than the £40 I just send it 1st Class, I've only ever had one item not turn up, and I just refunded the chap his money, on the grounds I can make a claim later. Fortunately, a week later it did turn up, and the chap did the decent things and let me know and paid up. Without, gathering the full mob, naming and shaming would be good,just so the rest of us can avoid them in future.
I'm must admit to losing faith in the classifieds, seeing the 2 sellers banging out dealextreme lights for well over the odds, I get the feeling it's becoming more like the 'bay, but better for sellers as they can still price well over the odds and avoid the fee's. In the last month, I have seen items I've sold to folk being sold on for more than I sold them for originally. Don't get me wrong, if people will pay then that's what it's worth, perhap's I just need to be more more hard nosed about it all.
I would expect a refund as the seller should have insured the
items posted.
Even when I send stuff back to say CRC I ask how much to
insure the item I am posting.
You can always ask for the reciept of sender to prove
he/she had sent the item.
Only a trifling sum for a couple of CD's, but it has just peed me off that anyone on here could act so mean spirited especially with no proof of postage.
This sort of reply is not what I expect from a fellow biker
[i]If you'd wanted insured post or recorded post then you should have said so. I wont refund this. I have to trust to what you have said and for all I know you could have them and just be pulling the wool over my eyes. I dont think you have but as I said if you'd wanted come back on post then you should have requested insured/recorded.
I am sorry but wont do that or anything like that[/i]
Not into naming and shaming, but you know who you are and hope the above comments make you realise who is in the right from a moral point of view.
Happy Christmas
Is it a regular? At the end of the day, you paid for something which didn't arrive. Seeing as its the seller who deals with Royal Mail with regards to claims, theres not much you can do- so this is not the right approach to trading on here!
I have to trust to what you have said and for all I know you could have them and just be pulling the wool over my eyes.
Exactly the reason why I always send everything via recorded so there is always a signature, I do this to protect me as much as the buyer.
Tbh, the seller is bang out of order. You only have his word that he put your stuff in the post at all. If he's posted it the parcel will have a proof of posting and insurance up to 100x value of postage stamp so he won't loose out. He should refund and then claim back from RoyalMail.
I always send recorded as it gives me peace of mine that the buyer won't try anything on.
Think you need to say who it is has unfare if this
person trys it again on someone else.
If you'd wanted insured post or recorded post then you should have said so. I wont refund this. I have to trust to what you have said and for all I know you could have them and just be pulling the wool over my eyes. I dont think you have but as I said if you'd wanted come back on post then you should have requested insured/recorded.
That's total BS. Name and shame.
Name and shame.
easy to do if you check t-taxi's user activity.
Interestingly the other person hasn't posted on STW for the last two weeks, is he running scared or scarpered off?
Name and shame.
Could save somebody else on here having a similar problem with him.
Also - contact the seller and give him the link to this thread - then he can see what others think of what he's done.
Cheers
odd, I've had a few CDs off him and have never had any problems (in fact both times he's slipped in extra CDs that I hadn;t asked for!) but yes, it's the responsibility of the seller to make sure postage is insured, you should price accordingly rather than leave the option to the buyer
How much would it have been insured? no more than a couple of quid FFS. not going to break the bank is it! Why not just put the price of postage on the item in the first place when listing it. If its still a good price, someone will buy it!
That's very poor show. As if you've going to "pull the wool over his eyes" for a couple of poxy CDs?
I think that if the asking price is paid, then the item should be insured as this is what you would expect to be included in the price.
However if the price has been haggled down then i wouldn't expect an item to be insured; and it is the buyers prerogative to ensure that it is, or be aware that if it doesn't turn up they have no come back...
Rich, I have no problem with naming myself. I sold an number of my CDs on here and all the others have received them.
I've bought and sold in classifieds without any problem for ages. I am not a trader. Just a private person raising funds from stuff I don't need.
From my side of this standard postage was all I was offering and if you wanted something recorded or insured you could have said when the sale was agreed. You didn't. Most of the postage prices I gave actually made me loose money as I underestimated on how much it would cost.P
Like yourself I have no proof that you have received these and aren't just pulling me for the cash.
The fact you have come on a forum to slag me off really just inclines me to be more reluctant to help out... I wasn't inclined to but am even less inclined now. A few years ago I bought a stereo in the same way and it never showed. Now if something is so important I always ask for insured postage. In eBay and online it is buyer beware and if you as a buyer want insured delivery then you should ask. I am not responsible for royal mail and can't be held responsible.
I know I'll get people who don't agree with what I've said here but in the end of days, I've sent them, as requested fulfilled what I said I would do. , you had chance to say you wanted insured postage, you didn't, I am sorry they haven't showed up but there's nothing I can do to help and frankly think they'll show up once Xmas post resolves itself.
You seem intent to whip up a storm in public. I think that's a great shame. I certainly won't sell to you again but I wouldn't have created this rubbish.
Guys, lots of rock CDs still for sale. Specify what postage you want.
If he sent the items 1st class, then his receipt is his insurance if the total value was less than £39.
One thing to bare in mind this time of year when posting items, is that the Post Office employs extra casual labour (read into that what you want) to cover the huge increase in items being posted this month. The result (as I learnt 1st hand one recent December ) is an increase in missing post !!
From my side of this standard postage was all I was offering and if you wanted something recorded or insured you could have said when the sale was agreed.
Sorry that's bollocks. He paid for you to get the stuff to him, not just to put it in the post.
And you can get proof of postage which would allow you to claim against the PO without sending stuff recorded or insured.
Well, I think you've let yourself down there - the OP tried quite hard not to name and shame, and hasn't slagged you off either. Poor show.
In eBay and online it is buyer beware
Actually if it was ebay then they would side with the buyer and refund them their money.
With all these type of transactions, the buyer & seller have reached an agreement. The buyer to give the seller money for the goods and the seller to give the buyer the goods in exchange for the money.
It is the sellers responsibility to give the goods to the buyer. The seller may choose to use another party (such as RM) to get the goods to the buyer, but this does not change the responsibility.
Simply put, if the buyer pays the seller and the seller fails to get the goods to the buyer for ANY reason, then the seller is at fault. End of
Grumm not bollocks at all. I said I would post them, I didn't gaurrentee any service level from royal mail ... Who in their right minds would?
Ok so why did you not get a (free) receipt which would allow you to claim from RM?
I said I would post them
How does he know you've posted them if you have no proof of postage?
You are legally obliged for the sale until the buyer gets the item, if this is only a few pounds then you dont even have to pay for proof of postage which covers you to about £32.
Personally I think the buyer hasnt done anything wrong, he seems to have contacted you a few times, you havent responded in the way you should and he asked for advice on here without naming you - someone else did.
Your attitude in the way you have dealt with this would stop me buying from you, I have had stuff go missing that I have sent to people on here before (only twice though and I do buy/sell quite a bit), on both occasions I refunded the buyers - I always get proof of postage or insurance though at the price I quote in the ad.
Wheres your xmas spirit - give the chap a refund and claim against the PO 😉
it's a contract for the cds, not for the posting of the cds. Simple. The buyer has given you money in exchange for them, the means in which you get them to him is wholly irrelevant - you entered into a contract with RM to deliver them FOR YOU, not for the seller.
It'd be different if you said - "buy my cd's and arrange your own P&P, by-the-way I'm happy to pay RM on your behalf to send them on but it's your responsibility..."
"its the sellers responsibility........"
doesnt that only apply to business?
and given the classifieds 'apparently' doesnt allow traders....... both parties need to think carefully about what they are doing.
split the difference and kiss and make up.
I'm 100% with the buyer and always assumed the law was too, and certainly have always acted in this way myself.
If I was an admin type I would make the use of registered delivery mandatory when items are going to be posted after being sold on classified and make it 100% clear where the responsibility is in the guidance. If you didn't like the rules, sell or buy elsewhere.
Nothing to add really,the replies say it all
Didn't appreciate the won't sell to you again remark though
You have got the cash, don't take the piss out of me too if you don't mind
ti_pin_man - MemberGuys, lots of rock CDs still for sale. Specify what postage you want.
🙄 Like that's gonna happen
Grumm not bollocks at all. I said I would post them, I didn't gaurrentee any service level from royal mail ... Who in their right minds would?
You still haven't explained why you didn't get proof of postage. I certainly wouldn't buy anything off you now.
atleast cough up half, end on level terms?
With an attitude such as that ti_pin_man I'd be surprised if you'll be selling to anyone else on here.
A poor show indeed.
Ti pin, you may think that posting was all you were obliged to do but the general consensus and general rule is that you're wrong. I don't doubt that you behaved in good faith but sometimes you just have to accept that you're wrong. I don't always do recorded for things I post but I always get proof of posting so I can claim back if it doesn't arrive.
Do the decent thing and refund him.
Grumm not bollocks at all. I said I would post them, I didn't gaurrentee any service level from royal mail ... Who in their right minds would?
Edited. Can't be bothered with you. You're wrong basically.
Who lost the CD's? Royal Mail.
Who engaged Royal Mail? The seller.
Sorry Tipin man, but I also think you're in the wrong in this one. I know that puts you out of pocket, but them's the breaks sometimes I guess. Your buyer cannot claim for the loss of the parcel, you can.
In eBay and online it is buyer beware and if you as a buyer want insured delivery then you should ask. I am not responsible for royal mail and can't be held responsible.
Sorry Joe but no, your responsibility.
Its a tough break, but as far as I'm concerned Ti should swallow & admit he is wrong, not easy to do, but it needs to be done, its only a few quid FFS.
Ti person can you actually produce a receipt?
I have some sympathy for you as it is not your fault really but I always get a receipt from post office - I dont ask they all do this
I assume you have kept that - refund his money and claim.
I do sepcify recorded/signed for if it is a high value item so I think you have a point in that but with receipt = money back even if buyer is lying you will get them money back. You have nothing to loose if you sent them and kept the receipt..if you did not send or keep the receipt then THAT is your fault.
What a bellend, the guy hasnt got his CD's so you give him his money back, not difficult.
The fact you didnt get a receipt from the post office is your fault, not his.
What did you want, him phoning you when you were at the post office, reminding you to get a receipt?
From experience, I send most first class recorded. one guy after 12 days still hadnt received his battery and without hesitation (ok I did give it 12 days) I built up and posted a replacement. He was more than happy and spread my word further 😉 good karma is priceless
Your responsible for posting them and should account for the postage, he paid for good and received nothing. You have his cash.
This is very simple. In law the seller is responsible.
This type of thing has been through the small claims court hundreds of times, and is always resolved in favour of the buyer. In view of this guy's smug attitude alone I would go that route, just to teach the **** a lesson.
As pretty much everyone else has said Ti - you are in the wrong here legally & morally.
Do the decent thing & give the guy his money back
If the guy had posted you a cheque for the CDs & it never turned up, would you expect that to be your problem?
It always annoys me when eBay sellers/classified sellers 'offer' insurance as an option!
The insurance really isn't for the buyer - it's for the seller's protection!
As a seller, you [b]have to get the item to the buyer[/b] - fair enough include insurance in the P+P price, but don't pretend it's their responsibility to ask for it - it's the equivalent of them asking you not to set fire to the item before posting.......
You sold it, you posted it, it's yours still until the buyer has it in their hands.
DrP
wot DrP said.
Common decency & manners from a seller would suggest a refund.
I sold a singulator on here a few years ago under an old log-in, and I had bought it from someone on e-bay as a surly singulator, which is what I then advertised it as on here. When the buyer got it he instantly identified it as not being a Surly device (what a geek) and said he wouldn't have paid what I'd asked. Solution: offered him a half refund, which he agreed to, as when I looked on the Surly website it clearly wasn't a branded chain tensioner, but a generic, cheaper device.
Depends on the wording. If the seller says "£20 posted". Then to me the onus is firmly on the seller to ensure the item arrives in the buyers hands. i.e. the risk is the sellers (plus to cover himself).
If the seller says £20+post. Then its down to the buyer to ask the seller if its recorded/signed for with part-responsibility for the seller offer this as well.
If the seller says £20+post. Then its down to the buyer to ask the seller if its recorded/signed for with part-responsibility for the seller offer this as well.
No
It's the buyers responsibility to take what ever actions are necessary to get the money safely to the seller.
It's the sellers responsibility to deliver the goods to the buyer
There's no shared or cross-over of responsibility here
What uplink said - business or personal, it's up to the seller to get the items to the buyer safely. it's gone through courts so so many times, I can't believe any one thinks differently.
I ALWAYS send out stuff signed for (you can apply this to first or second class post), and it only adds something like 70p.
this kind of thing pisses me off. The classifieds exist mainly on trust and people like ti pin man undermine this.
suggest you go sell your tat someplace else from now on
Hora that's not correct at all and has been proven on many occasions in law
Two sides to the trade.
1. buyer agrees to give seller money for goods - this seems complete in this case
2. seller agrees to give buyer goods in exchange for the money. Ideally thsi would be a physical handover, but in this case the seller has opted to engage a third party to complete HIS side of the trade. It is the seller's and only the sellers responsibility to get the goods to the buyer
I too get pee'd of with all those tools on ebay insisting you opt for postal insurance. These people need to be banned from ebay
Ok, so what if the seller says '£20?. Say £3 by first class post?"
Buyer agrees. Then by agreeing its a shared risk? Remember. The seller isnt a trade seller. If CRC's item didnt reach me by first class post (that I'd agreed/clicked on)- I'd expect another or refund. Private seller though- if you AGREE to first class post only- then you surely lose some rights?!!!
hora you are STILL WRONG
Another one in agreement with it being the sellers responsibility to get the goods there, nothing to do with what postage the buyer requests!
Doesn't all these opinions going against yours tell you something ti_pin_man, like on this occasion you may be in the wrong?
Buyer agrees. Then by agreeing its a shared risk?
No, because as pointed out many times, as long as you get a postage receipt, the sender can still claim the money back from RM, and thus refund the buyer. 🙄
Gonna stick my neck out here...
How do we know that the buyer DIDN'T receive the goods...? He could be pulling a fast one.
Ok, probably not, he seems pretty genuine but to guarantee that a buyer can't stiff me I always post by at least Recorded/Signed For. It's aroundabout 60p more or whatever, but I know when it's arrived.
No I dont agree with that Hora, as Id only agree to that if the item was worth under £40, and then a free postage receipt would be sufficient to get a refund for the seller in the event of it going missing.
Something so simple to understand is being made complex IMO.
nevermind what Ti_ does or doesn't do for this seller, could I have a show of hand of who would be buying from him in the future?
On reflection. Your right. If Im selling something unless I know the person (i.e. trust them to say they'd received it)- I'd only send anything by recorded delivery as I know I'd have to stump up the cash if the item went astray.
nevermind what Ti_ does or doesn't do for this seller, could I have a show of hand of who would be buying from him in the future?
not me, there are so many decent people on here you can afford to avoid the knobs
Recorded post isn't tracked as a DHL parcel is for example- its recorded at the postage stage, and when its signed for. It doesn't cover any more compensation over normal first or second class post.
If the seller uses Royal Mail, they get free proof of posting and therfore they are entitled to the compensation offered under the service. It is not up to the buyer to ensure they a. get this proof of posting b. keep this and c. use it to claim.
How do we know that the buyer DIDN'T receive the goods...? He could be pulling a fast one.
Could be but the seller apparently has no proof of postage. IMO he would still be being unreasonable if he had proof of postage, but without it he really doesn't have a leg to stand on.
The thing with demanding on 'signed for delivery' is you still dont know for sure if they have had it. A neighbour or flatmate could have signed for it and then say they havent, making their signature nothing more than a scribble, or a couple of times I have had the delivery man say I have signed for something that has apparently been left on the doorstep or they have nicked it, and when queried the signature is ineligible.
That is why you always make sure you are covered when posting something, as these things can happen and you will end up out of pocket.
[i]Ok, probably not, he seems pretty genuine but to guarantee that a buyer can't stiff me I always post by at least Recorded/Signed For. It's aroundabout 60p more or whatever, but I know when it's arrived. [/i]
Another reason for the seller to post as recorded.
rockthreegozy - you're right, adding signed for only really works for items up to 39 quid or whatever it is. I don't want to track, just know whether someone and who signed for it. Above that you want to go recorded and if over £500 (?) pay extra insurance.
or take the risk and refund the buyer if it goes tits.
It doesn't actually really matter (to the seller) if the buyer actually received the item or not. If the buyer claims not to have received it then the seller is covered by RM for £39 (or more if they insured it as they should if it's worth more than £39) which he can refund to the buyer and no one's out of pocket (except RM). If the buyer is lying then that's RM's issue to chase through the normal legal process, not the seller's.
Besides, in this case, if the seller doesn't have proof of posting, the buyer could just as easily question whether the seller is lying.
Once again, Ti_pin, do the decent thing and admit you're wrong. I certainly won't ever be buying anything off you unless you do.
On classifieds. You know, if I ever sold something and the buyer wasnt happy with the item or changed his mind within the day. I'd take it back you know. No problemo. Its happened once for me where Ive sent back something. I'd do the same. Some people on STW see it as 'buyer beware/private sale/tough' though.
^^^
Can we remind everyone of the old Chocolatefoot forum rule about buying or selling from Hora at this point? 🙂
Ti-Pin Man, how about you put a claim into RM for compensation and refund your buyer if it succeeds? You won't be out of pocket, even if the guy is skanking you.
LOL I've probably owned and sold about 5sets of forks this year 😯Can we remind everyone of the old Chocolatefoot forum rule about buying or selling from Hora at this point?
I have bought from Hora he is as good as his word - sold the item cheaper as Bingo had chewed the lever which I would never have noticed anyway - not an issue dealing with Hora in my experience
We don't know that the buyer isn't pulling a fast one, but the seller's attitude still stinks.