[Closed] I'm not a God botherer, but.....

Or is it boring racism as usual?

Oh? Quote me...

Mr Woppit - Member

Or is it boring racism as usual?

Oh? Quote me...

I don't need to.

You can just tell us what you are talking about and it will become apparent how racist you are or not as the case may be.

'Why he bloody shouting all bloody time? Bloody bastard always bloody shouting? What he bloody shouting for?'

'How can be bloody peace Northern Ireland this bloody bastard shouting all the time?'

😯
Word for word, same accent!
O
M
G
Noooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!
😯

Your dad too, Khani?

😆

You know this man, Mr Khan? He very nice man, very clever man. He community leader!

Yes, exactly the same
Words and accent 😯
He hated Paisley but he LOVED alf garnett

IdleJon - Member

Mr Woppit - Member

Or is it boring racism as usual?

Oh? Quote me...

I don't need to.

HUGE fail.

Fail - by you woppit?

Are you black? I won't talk to you if you're black.

Allegedly.

Alf Garnett!!!

Are we related by any chance???? 😆

My dad would dismiss many political figures as idiots, if he din't agree with what they were saying. Hence, most British politicians were, and still are, idiots.

Often, his disapproval would come down to something as simple as their appearance. No-one was spared scrutiny. Poor Michael Foot never stood a chance....

[i]'Oh my God look this bloody bastard what he looks like, bloody idiot. Worse than shit'.[/i]

To be fair, Mr Foot never was yer most elegant of politicians....

Can't repeat what he said about Thatcher, on a family forum. 😯

Are you black? I won't talk to you if you're black.

Well, I'm brown, and you won't answer my question. Or come for a pint with me. 😥

Elfinsafety
That's cheered me up no end, very funny 😆
Allthough my old man could be funnier than that
Watching him chase lads who called for my sister up the garden path with a meat cleaver shouting 'what you want my daughter bloody bastard kill you' was best 😆

He was right about thatcher though!

Watching him chase lads who called for my sister up the garden path with a meat cleaver shouting 'what you want my daughter bloody bastard kill you' was best

😆

I can just picture that.

And his words about Michael foot were [i]'look at him' tromp' (tramp) look like bloody tromp bloody bastard' in bloody bastard vellys' bloody bastard'[/i]

Heh!

Hesseltein would get it, because of his hair;

[i]'Why he no get bloody haircut? Is he bloody hipsy?'[/i]

Arthur Scargil faired no better.

[i]'Is he got problem his head? Why his hair like this? For operation?'[/i]

😆

And the [i]swearing[/i]. Lordy. The tirade of foul language was enough to make a sailor blush. My mum wasn't too impressed. 😐

Watching him ranting at politicians on the telly was better than watching telly itself, the only thing better was when punk started, just couldn't get his head round it at all
Then I came home with a Mohican and my sister turned into suzi soux
But that's another story.............

Ooh dear! 😆

My dad's never got over the time when I plucked up the courage to tell him I [i]wasn't[/i] a Muslim. I shall forever be a huge disappointment to him. 🙁

As shall I, he was grievously hurt by it
I share your pain, 🙁

(High-Fives fellow kafir)

[IMG] [/IMG]

[img] [/img]

"Ineteresting Wikipedia link. So, pretty much: "Can we have our country back" followed by "oh, O.K. then", then..."

I notice you declined to post a link supporting this preposterous view. ignored the resistance movement and peacful non compliance etc any evidence for your nonesense view ? did we just give ireland back when they asked in your opinion ? 🙄

ignored the resistance movement and peacful non compliance etc

"Can we have our country back".

any evidence for your nonesense [i](sic)[/i] view

"Oh, O.K., then..." ("In addition, the British people and the British Army seemed unwilling to back a policy of repression in India and other parts of the Empire even as their own country was recovering from war.")

A government responds to the wishes of it's people. Sounds pretty "civilised" to me...

My win, I think.

A government responds to the wishes of it's people. Sounds pretty "civilised" to me...

ahahaha really? it's kind of a facade, no? but sure, you buy into that if it makes you feel better 🙂

again no link [lets call that evidence shall we]to back up your win just your rambling

Can we have our country back".

asked circs 1860-1870 and many times in the intervening years- hundreds of thousands imprisoned and numerous rebellions put down and leaders killed for example
[b]The Rowlatt Act[1919], also known as the Black Act, vested the Viceroy's government with extraordinary powers to quell sedition by silencing the press, detaining the political activists without trial, and arresting any individuals suspected of sedition or treason without a warrant. In protest, a nationwide cessation of work (hartal) was called, marking the beginning of widespread, although not nationwide, popular discontent. The agitation unleashed by the acts culminated on 13 April 1919, in the Jallianwala Bagh massacre (also known as the Amritsar Massacre) in Amritsar, Punjab. The British military commander, Brigadier-General Reginald Dyer, blocked the main entrance, and ordered his soldiers to fire into an unarmed and unsuspecting crowd of some 5,000 men, women and children. They had assembled at Jallianwala Bagh, a walled in courtyard in defiance of the ban. A total of 1,651 rounds were fired, killing 379 people (as according to an official British commission; Indian estimates ranged as high as 1,499[18]) and wounding 1,137 in the episode, which dispelled wartime hopes of home rule and goodwill in a frenzy of post-war reaction.
[/b]

"Oh, O.K., then..."

answered 1948
Yeah your win;your account is historically accurate and it was also Pretty civilised.

Well, it was a bit time-compressed and the dialogue was simplified but yeah. Cheers.

No thank you. I have been labouring under a grave misunderstanding you helped clear it up with your thoughtful analysis and powerful use of logic, evidence and reasoning. i am a wiser person for your input ....no really I am.
EDIT: I am replying to your orignal unedited version which was simply
Cheers

Mr Woppit - Member

As to recent developments in Cuba: sure, they have started to organise themselves more like the free West. I hear they've even "allowed" the populace to have mobile phones. Only the one kind of course - supplied by the government.

Mobile phones ? LOL ! That shows exactly where your priorities are Woppit .... you're not interested in life expectancy, literacy rates, unemployment, infant mortality, healthcare, crime, etc,...... No, no, no ! It's mobile phones that you want to know about ! 😀

Well I'll tell you something Woppit, there's more than the availability of mobile phones which makes Cuba different - just compare it with it's closest neighbour, which has a simular size population, Haiti.

Crime ridden Haiti has endured countless US invasions and many years of US occupation (the last invasion was 6 years ago) In Haiti people live about 20 years less than in Cuba and they have no free healthcare. Two thirds of Haitians have no proper jobs. There is practically no unemployment in Cuba. Infant mortality is TEN TIMES higher in Haiti than Cuba....... I could go on, but you get the picture.

Yes, they have more mobile phones in Haiti than in Cuba (thank **** for US invasions eh ?) BUT, half the population in Haiti can't read or write. So I guess your priorities are a little different when you can't write a letter or read a newspaper ! There is 100% literacy in Cuba.

Interestingly enough, there are 1.104 million main telephone lines in Cuba, which compares with a mere 108,000 telephone lines Haiti.

Anyway getting back to "priorities", there is little doubt that Cuba is very careful about what areas it invests precious new technology and imports. The big priority has always been healthcare, in which in some areas, it is a world leader. Can't imagine that mobile phones have ever been very high up the list.

And ration new technology and imports they must, because as you know, the country has been under a extremely comprehensive trade embargo for 50 years from it's huge and very powerful neighbour. These sanctions have a profound effect on Cuba, causing real hardship and difficulties, [i]obviously[/i] - otherwise they would have been lifted years ago. And the US will apply sanctions to [u]non-U.S.[/u] companies which trade with Cuba, so the effect is far more widespread than you might imagine.

Still, as by your own admission, Cuba is now making mobile phones more available, it's all rather academic wouldn't you say Woppit ? .....in fact a non-issue.

.

BTW Woppit, a Google News search of [i]"Che Guevara"[/i] gives more results (1,970) than a Google News search of [i]"Margaret Thatcher"[/i] (1,790) Which obviously means that Che is more relevant today, than Thatcher - despite the fact that he's been dead for 43 years. What say you to that ?

Here is just one example of how Che still inspires and makes the news :

[url= http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5jkwiZEroI-_RrjNC7snE4PvNnJWg ]Benicio Del Toro invokes Che Guevara in Brazil land struggle[/url]

And don't think Che's influence is just restricted to Latin America, he is a huge inspirational icon throughout the world, wherever oppressed people are struggling for justice. And nowhere more so than Gaza :

[img] ?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=77BFBA49EF878921F7C3FC3F69D929FD95949042331D79BA859B1DCFE33077875A7DECE61D08684EA7CFF610D5B4FC25[/img]

Is that Wolfie Smith ?

BBC sitcoms seem popular the world over.

As with all icons, this one is used for what people think he represents and has little to do with what he actually did, or believed in himself, both of which were execrable. And yes, I do realise that he and his fellow Communists replaced what were little more thana bunch of gangsters, but the cure was as bad as the disease IMHO, much like our own politics in the late seventies.

The Cuban government treats it's adults like children. Obviously, you prefer a society in which everybody is held down at the same level. Personally, I prefer one where a person can rise to a level that their abilities can take them. Naturally, there should be a level at which the most helpless should be prevented from falling beneath, but I am in favour of equality of opportunity, not of outcome.

As with all icons, this one is used for what people think he represents and has little to do with what he actually did, or believed in himself, both of which were execrable.

I would suggest that it is you with your comment "[i]It's the sort of thing usually beloved by those who think that Che Guevara was some kind of altruistic humanist [/i]" who is ill-informed........too much time reading American neo-conservative propaganda I fear. Otherwise you would be aware of why he became a doctor, worked with lepers for nothing, risked his life, gave up what would have been a comfortable life as a top Cuban government minister, and finally died in the struggle which he dedicated his life to.

[i]"If you tremble indignation at every injustice then you are a comrade of mine"[/i] - Che Guevara

I find nothing in here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Che_guevara

to change my mind.

really nothing will change your mind I find that rather surprising you seem so open to change.
As for this what a total sh1t

By December 1964, Che Guevara had emerged as a "revolutionary statesman of world stature" and thus traveled to New York City as head of the Cuban delegation to speak at the United Nations.[138] During his impassioned address, he criticized the United Nations inability to confront the "brutal policy of apartheid" in South Africa, proclaiming "can the United Nations do nothing to stop this?"[139] Guevara then denounced the United States policy towards their black population, stating:

"Those who kill their own children and discriminate daily against them because of the color of their skin; those who let the murderers of blacks remain free, protecting them, and furthermore punishing the black population because they demand their legitimate rights as free men — how can those who do this consider themselves guardians of freedom?"[139]

Clealry an excerable view if ever there was one.
or perhaps this

Nelson Mandela referred to him as "an inspiration for every human being who loves freedom"

but then again he is a convicted terrorist as well

Being against apartheid doesn't change the fact that he was a murderer and fan of the appalling Mao Xedong. In attempting to fashion Cuba's economic strategy after Mao's "great leap forward", a strategy that reduced China to penury and generated the "cultural revolution" in which people were tortured and persecuted for having the temerity to disagree with the monstrous cretin in charge, he fated Cubans to a life of poverty and "make-do". Ironically, China only started to prosper when it's single-party dictatorship adopted capitalism as an economic model.

Even more ironically, Castro was recently heard to remark that Cuba's "economic model has not worked". Better to come late to the real world than never, I suppose.

Mandela is a useful figurehead and seems like a nice person, but he is a political naif and short-sighted with regard to South Africa's wealth generation. Witness the misery it has descended into since he left office and the new diaspora of white South Africans who are tired of living in what has become a failing state, allied with the likes of the disgusting Mugabe...

Are we discussing che or china most of your post was about china not Che.

he is a political naif and short-sighted with regard to South Africa's wealth generation.

It is his fault what happened after he left office? Do you think it is a better place now or under prosperous apartheid? Do you base all judgements purely on money/wealth?

Witness the misery it has descended into since he left office and the new diaspora of white South Africans who are tired of living in what has become a failing state,

WTF are on about here?
The term diaspora (Greek ????????, a scattering or sowing of seeds) is used (without capitalization) to refer to any people or [b]ethnic population forced or induced to leave their traditional ethnic homelands[/b], being dispersed throughout other parts of the world, and the ensuing developments in their dispersal and culture.
I dont really see how you can apply this term to the non indigenous white population of SA. Nor do I see any coercion involved in them leaving ? - often to the country of [family] origin.

You really do spout whatever you fancy Woppit - without any concern that it bears no resemblance with reality.

RE : [i]"allied with the likes of the disgusting Mugabe"[/i]

Reality : Mandela - [i]"Nearer to home we have seen the outbreak of violence against fellow Africans in our own country and the tragic failure of leadership in our neighbouring Zimbabwe." [/i]

Also : [url= http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/739258.stm ]Mandela adds to Mugabe pressure[/url]

Quote : [i]"Former South African President Nelson Mandela has criticised African tyrants"[/i]

Mandela is no ally of Mugabe. But public condemnation isn't easy for South Africans, although they do. Because firstly, it reduces their influence over him (not something a British prime minister need worry about, and therefore do so freely) And secondly, Mugabe was once highly respected because of his struggle against the illegal Smith regime. Even Thatcher respected him enough to make him party to the Lancaster House Agreement. The then Tory government saw him as a legitimate leader - and he did win overwhelmingly, the first universal elections in Zimbabwe.

RE : [i]"Castro was recently heard to remark that Cuba's "economic model has not worked". Better to come late to the real world than never, I suppose."[/i]

Reality : Today a wind of change is sweeping through Latin America. Throughout the region governments are grappling with the huge problems which have dogged the continent for so long. They are [i][b]not[/i][/b] turning to the capitalist model to solve their problems. They are turning to socialism to provide many of the answers.

And an absolutely vital in this new political climate, is the example set by Cuba - specially when it comes to healthcare and education, although also in other areas (and btw, these governments have been highly successful in providing real change for the benefit of their people) As a consequence, Cuba today, is more influential [u]than at any other time[/u] since the Cuban revolution. And never has the US and its capitalist model, been [u]less[/u] influential.

Sure, Cuban is far from perfect - socialism does not solve all of the society's problems. Indeed it throws up new ones which never existed before. Everything is relative. And what was right for Cuba 50 years ago will not be right for Cuba today.....that's what being "revolutionary" is all about. Cuba undoubtedly needs to accept change. And let's not forget that what capitalists were arguing 50 years ago is quite different to what capitalists are arguing today. As Lenin pointed out, the capitalist class is in fact also a revolutionary class ......constantly "re-inventing" itself, as we have seen.

But you are quite wrong Woppit, to say that Fidel no longer has faith in the Cuban model. Despite the claims by a hostile reporter concerning a comment Fidel is supposed to have made at the end of an interview.

[url] http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5gJI3zstKHFuSHGchgbaKBT4wQACQ ]http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5gJI3zstKHFuSHGchgbaKBT4wQACQ[/url]

You need to spend more time listening to what Fidel [i]actually[/i] says, rather than what an American reporter [i]claims[/i] he has said. I certainly do.

oh man, I've had a few days away from here. and you know what, I'm sad to admit I miss it. Some funny and interesting stuff on here.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5gJI3zstKHFuSHGchgbaKBT4wQACQ
link fix

Re the state of the economy I would argue the USA trade embargo [ and specifically the extra territorial aspect also has a large effect - 70 Billion according to Cuba. Essentially they have limited the free market/trade making it harder for Cuba - you must be livid at the loss of this wealth generating opportuniy.
The UN is against this- well those that vote except Israel and the USA and it is in violation of International law – imagine that the USA in violation of International law in Cuba.

Bear with me, I'll get back when I've got time for detailed rebuttals.

Got time for an answer to my question then?

The most interesting thing in the last flurry of posts was being urged to examine my values (after some thought, I agree), so that is what I'm doing.

This will, of course, significantly affect how I deal with the rest of it, if anybody's interested. Or not - "not" being the more likely outcome, I would imagine.

Laters.

i'm pretty sure ghandi like to touch small people, both girls and boys. he's a fine example of religious hipocracy. just like all the others. what did he do for the world oh yeah sweet fa.

alex - perhaps you should learn to spell. And to think. 🙄

Mr Woppit - Member

Bear with me, I'll get back when I've got time for detailed rebuttals.

Posted 1 day ago

Mr Woppit - Member

Laters.

Posted 2 hours

I'm waiting nervously in anticipation 😐

I'm still waiting for an answer to my question, so I wouldn't hold yer breath.

i'm pretty sure ghandi like to touch small people, both girls and boys. he's a fine example of religious hipocracy. just like all the others. what did he do for the world oh yeah sweet fa.

Ooh doctor we've found something!

What can it be?

It's like a brain, only smaller... 😆

I've seen a flatworm with better powers of reasoning than alex222.

Talking of flatworms.........its a little known fact that Gandhi has such short legs, that his feet couldn't reach the pedals on his bike.

As a consequence, he had to get someone else to pedal his bike for him....

[img] [/img]

That's not Ghandi; it's Robert Mugabe. He's mislaid his glasses, so he's hitched a ride with a BBC foreign broadcast unit.

[img] [/img]

i dont understand Whoppits post is he going to have a think? If so I commned him not many on here do this as[s] we[/s] they are a bit set in their ways.
To complete the circle can I claim the pic is desmond ascending to heaven on a ss rigid without a helmet mmmm what tyres?

Yes, I'm having a think. I may be some time.

The Gandhi thing is quite interesting. Its difficult to argue with a lot of what he said, however on on of my many trips to India I was chatting to a very thoughtful academic about the impact of the British Raj and how emabaressed I felt to be British in that context. After a pause he turned to me and said don't be so ridiculous, can you imagine what a mess we would be in now had it not been for the Raj, you only have to look as far as Afgahnistan to see the truth of that. That was several years before the current troubles there. I thought about that a lot for a long time, and the truth is that India as such never actually existed as a state prior to the Raj, it was a series of kingdoms riven with all sorts of intrigue and infighting, almost perpetually at war, and generally not the most pleasant place for the average fella in the street to be.

I'm not saying he was right, but it does put some of what Gandhi said into a slightly different perspective.

Not really sure what your point is re Afghanistan- see great game and the three wars for our role there - are you claiming it would be better if we had ruled them as well?
[Goodwin warning]
Like arguing that Hitler helped the jews as without the holocaust there would not have been a Jewish state.

Nope, I'm just saying that a smart local fella was saying that India would not necessarily be a wonderful place full of sweetness and light had the British Raj not occurred, and thats not really something that had occurred to me as such.