[Closed] I'm looking at German tesla in cornwall.

There’s a Tesla in one of the big houses down the road from me. The support vehicle was there a few months ago - a ratty 03 reg Mercedes diesel van.

I've got a friend with a Tesla. Lives near Reading, worked in Exeter. He reckons he can get one to the other and back on a single charge.

He is a bit of an evangelist for it, so whether there's a certain element of BillyBS...and he has mentioned driving slowly helps

Probably plenty of charging points in Germany.  Also quite a few on the M4, guessing on the M5 also.  Not that hard is it?

I still think there should have been a universal battery size that got swapped at filling stations.

I think the batteries weigh 500kg.  You'd need loads of equippment to handle them.  And designing a car to allow that size of battery to be dropped out from underneath the chassis wouldn't be a simple challenge on top of all the other challenges the carmaker has.  And a Zoe doesn't have that big of a battery, so you'd need lots of different sizes to cater for different cars.  I think it's a difficult problem to solve - better to simply have fast charging and force people to wait half an hour every three of driving.

looks like you can get over 300 miles on a charge. That's probably 2 day to get to Dover (depending on where they start), then a day to Cornwall (might need to stop for a couple of hours and fast charge for a bit of extra juice!) Doesn't sound particularly ridiculous!

Dunno, but I saw a Tesla with Norwegian plates in Ljubljana, Slovenia last year. Probably not short of charging points on central European motorways though.

70% charge in 20 mins at one of the numerous supercharger points. Built in satnav knows where they are, how much juice you use and how many subscribers are heading to each one, routes you accordingly. 300 miles on a full charge in a p100 is easily doable. Most early adopters have an infinite superchager use for free for life deal.

Scroll down for the map.

https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/supercharger

If the model-x didn't have those stupid doors I'd have one in an instant & wouldn't hesitate to have it drive me across europe.

I still think there should have been a universal battery size that got swapped at filling stations.

They are designed to do so, but only one battery swapping station was built and very few users were interested, so the idea has been parked.

You’d need loads of equippment to handle them. And designing a car to allow that size of battery to be dropped out from underneath the chassis wouldn’t be a simple challenge on top of all the other challenges the carmaker has.

https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-shuts-down-battery-swap-program-for-superchargers/

Saw an Innsbruck registered Tesla when I was in Torridon, and wondered how many charges it took to get there. Compared to my car that needed 1 top up somewhere between Hull and Carlisle to get there (doing Frankfurt-Torridon, which is about 5-6 hours less driving).

There are a few e-chargers at every autobahn services.

I assume the 300 miles per charge is driving it like a granddad on the motorway, and full to empty, rather than quick top up to 85%. I think I estimated 3 charges to get to the ferry and 3 beyond. Perhaps it was a long holiday like my parents take in their campervan, stopping overnight or for a few nights every 100ish miles or less?

And yes, I think there was a charger in the hotel near Torridon too? And one at the petrol station?

I'll stick to 98 octane for now.

Supercharger map

Very easily. All the red points are working superchargers (grey are coming soon). Park up, deliver up to 120kW of power directly into the battery - that's in theory about 300 miles of charge per hour. So stop for 20 mins for a wee and to grab a coffee at the services and you've got another 100 miles in. Stop for lunch and you'll get plenty in for an afternoon's driving. Even the smallest battery ones are good for 200 miles at least. Teslas can use all the slower 7kW chargers (the sort you'd have outside your house) too, and can use the same 50kW rapid charging connector as the Nissan Leaf using an adaptor.

Tesla really do make this sort of long distance driving very easy - just plan breaks where you can charge and usually the limit is the driver needing to eat or stretch legs. From almost anywhere in Germany to Cornwall would be a 2 day (1 overnight) trip, just as it would be in a petrol or diesel car.

Quick runthrough on plugshare's trip planner - could do Berlin to Lands End (975 miles) in less than 22 hours (plus crossing time), being quite conservative - 180 miles between charges, and an hour spent charging at each.

Or alternatively, a 12 hour drive to Calais, charge to full overnight in a hotel, then get an early crossing and about 9 hours driving on the other side. Quite doable.

Most people don't drive from Innsbruck to Torridon every day...or every week.....or every month even.

For most people 200-300 miles between charges is more than enough. Personally, as a Leaf driver, I dream of 300 miles!   I get 80 miles between charges if I'm lucky which considering I do around 50 miles a day is fine - but no, its not my only car and when I want to drive a longer distance I use a petrol/electric hybrid.

I would have a Tesla in a heartbeat and will probably get a Model 3 eventually when they start arriving in the UK in any numbers - I'm in no rush as the Leaf is fine for now

Peopel just need time to accept the range and understand their own driving habits - obvs if you do long commutes etc or drive across continents often then ev's aren't for you. If like most people you whizz around locally for 99% of your time then it will be fine.

I still think there should have been a universal battery size that got swapped at filling stations.

In time, and as battery tech improves further and standardises there will be. Pull in, battery out, new one in, off again in less time than it takes to fill up with petrol. It'll require the will of the car / battery makers and of governments to build the infrastructure, but it'll happen. It has to.

And although you might think it means that we'll need massive recharge and stockpiles of batteries at these recharging stations, in most cases you won't. I did a brief overview report on this at work recently and the stats say that the majority of cars are used for < 3 hours and < 50 miles per day, so well within drive to work, recharge, drive home or even drive to work, sit idle and then drive home and recharge ranges.

I don't know what battery technology these things use, but generally the faster you recharge a battery the shorter its life. Is that an issue here? What's the lifespan of a perpetually supercharged Tesla battery?

Is that going to cause issues at swap stations? Swap your shagged battery for a brand spanker / potentially end up with someone else's rotten one ?

Nope, quick battery swap is a complete non-starter. We have three different shapes of rapid charging connectors right now, if you think you can get manufacturers to agree any standard for battery shapes/sizes to enable this you're delusional. Not to mention who'd want to attempt to build a network of very complicated automated swap stations that will need to quickly clean the underside of a car, precisely line it up, safely remove the old and replace with new and charge/inventory those batteries in between. All for considerably less cost per use than a tank of petrol, and in no more time than it takes to fill a tank.

Ranges and charging will get "good enough" (arguably for many they already are) and hopefully this idea will quietly go away.

I don’t know what battery technology these things use, but generally the faster you recharge a battery the shorter its life. Is that an issue here? What’s the lifespan of a perpetually supercharged Tesla battery?

Yes and no, Teslas only charge to 80% normally (unless you manually select full charge). This makes a huge difference to the cell lifetime. Stats from Tesla users, so far, show exceptional battery life on Model S/X in the field.

The limiting factor with fast chargers is heat; keeping the cells cool when charging. Teslas have integrated cooling inside the battery, so this helps reduce heat build up during charging.

The bike light industry charges Li-ion cells to between 95% and 105%, to get max run times; but it basically knackers them, hence you get used to cells dieing all the time.

I figured the battery would fit in the engine bay.

Bonnet up at 90 degrees ,  crane comes along lifts it out and puts one in.

All stations would have solar panels and windmills .

I have seen a Dutch Tesla near Inverness. Presumably on the ferry to Newcastle, then about 300 miles driving. So just about doable on a single charge.

They were recharging overnight at the chalet, with a standard 3 pin plug and cable out the window.

I’ll stick to 98 octane for now.

You can still do 200-300 miles on a charge, not driving slowly.  But the point is with a fast charger it's only what, an hour and you're back on the road again.  So comparing it to a "a long holiday like my parents take in their campervan, stopping overnight or for a few nights every 100ish miles or less?" is very silly.  5-600 miles a day is as easy as it is in your gas guzzler.

I figured the battery would fit in the engine bay.

Far too much weight for that.  They need to be low down in the chassis. On smaller cars they are under the back seats AFAIK.

Nope, quick battery swap is a complete non-starter. We have three different shapes of rapid charging connectors right now, if you think you can get manufacturers to agree any standard for battery shapes/sizes to enable this you’re delusional.

I'm not talking now. IANAE but people wiser than me are talking 20,30, even 50 years from now.

I'd bet you but i won't be here to see it anyway.

Nope, quick battery swap is a complete non-starter.

Well Tesla built one and had it working, 5 mins for a battery swap.

Most people don’t drive from Innsbruck to Torridon every day…or every week…..or every month even.

For most people 200-300 miles between charges is more than enough. Personally, as a Leaf driver, I dream of 300 miles!

and you should know by now that facts have no place in these discussion!!

If you can't do 900 miles with only a quick stop for fuel and a piss then it's just not good enough!!

Publicity stunt. Absolutely no plans to offer it.

I’ll stick to 98 octane for now.

fair enough, your choice. however the average journey length in the UK is 7 miles AFAIR. average car mileage per year is what? 12,000? which is a bit over 32 miles/day. so undoubtedly there are many people who could switch if they were inclined to.

"Publicity stunt. Absolutely no plans to offer it."

I think it was a genuine avenue of thought but it quickly became apparent that it wouldn't work. For it to work the batteries would all need to be rented from Tesla so customers wouldn't worry about potential degredation. This would require drivers to sign up to the scheme. Also as cars move from 60 (when the scheme was introduced) to 100 plus kwh the need becomes less acute. I can see it potentially re-emerge sometime in the future though with different tech

It'd work for a smaller battery that could just slot into a door on the side of the car - at least if it were a 3 door car.

however the average journey length in the UK is 7 miles AFAIR

I assume you mean the mean journey length.  But it's a pointless statistic because we know many journeys are a lot longer, and it's those that are the issue.

they wouldn't be if you could swap out a battery in the time it takes to refuel currently.

 But it’s a pointless statistic because we know many journeys are a lot longer, and it’s those that are the issue.

The stats show that the majority are low, we did find one or 2 in the last thread who did over 300 regularly but breaks accounted for their need for a charge. For reference I'm sat in Manchester Airport at the moment, it's 225 miles and 4hrs driving to Edinburgh, is that anybodies normal journey?

It's also only an issue if you make it one, as for the majority of people this is a once or twice a year event you can make other plans if you find it impossible to charge on the way such as hiring a brand new ICE car that somebody will deliver to you and pick up after.

What we mostly see in these "discussions" is a perfect illustration of the change curve some people are further than others, some are firmly in denial, looking for evidence to fir their conclusions.

fair enough, your choice. however the average journey length in the UK is 7 miles AFAIR. average car mileage per year is what? 12,000?

7,900 / year according to the latest figures i could find.

Obvs on here most people do that in a day

they wouldn’t be if you could swap out a battery in the time it takes to refuel currently.

Why change the battery. Why not change to another rented car? Car ownership seems to as big an issue as any other.

Why not change to another rented car?

true enough - I mean we're talking far enough into the future that the infrastructural investment and changes needed to enable standard battery swop-out to be 'normal' could just as easily create infrastructure like that, or transport infrastructure that means that 'car' travel for long journeys is just archaic full stop.

Not a problem to unload all my bikes/skis and luggage from one electric car to another every 200 miles or so, on several trips from Frankfurt to/from Scotland/Alps.

Battery swap would be more convenient for those of us that don't live in a 2.4 children suburban semi where a charge point can be installed on the driveway (powered of course by the solar on the roof). Eventually the shared parking area will have to have charge point for every parking spot, but that's only going to happen once most of the tenants want or need or have no objections.

Sure there will be or have to be a mix of changes in attitudes, but it;s not going to happen tomorrow. Shared cars, shared batteries, hybrid, ICE,...

The stats show that the majority are low,

Yes but people buy to take the outliers into account, don't they?

I met a guy in a Leaf who was driving fro Amsterdam to Manchester with a family of 4 and a roof box!

He reckoned it wasn't that much more hassle than a petrol car as it did the 80% charge in 20minutes thing and the toddler needed as many stops as the car anyway.

A tesla doing 80% charge and giving you 300 miles, how often do you drive 300 miles without a coffee or toilet break? It's against most employers H&S rules to drive for 3 hours without a break, let alone 4, and on top of that that's only 4 if you hit not traffic at all.

Yes but people buy to take the outliers into account, don’t they?

State of mind issues there... Over spec yourself for 362 days for the 3 others?

if you are going to drive from Germany to Cornwall and back then what better car to do it in that one that has autopilot and free supercharging (assuming the car did had AP and qualified for free SCing)?

Lets say you were a Mercedes exec driving from Stuttgart in your E63 getting 25mpg (similar price, performance and comfort to a model S/X) then the trip would cost you about £430 taking it easy and avoiding motorway fill ups but with a fill up aver 300 miles. so pretty much the same number of stops as a Tesla, both driven for economy and a 900 miles each way trip.

But the £430 saved pays for 2 nice hotel stop overs that you would need regardless. More if you drove the E63 properly.

Obviously swapping your E63 for a 50-60mpg diesel and your Tesla with free SC for something you have to pay to charge closes that gap to about £120 but that would be a lot less enjoyable drive.

Yes but people buy to take the outliers into account, don’t they?

And to add given how many people lease now a lease plus option to allow you to flex up for a week or 2 would be a good product to offer.

What happens if you run out of power in your Tesla?

In a conventional car you just run to the nearest petrol station & grab a can... what do you do with an electric car? Grab some AA batteries?

depends where.

On the autobahn, in Germany, both would have you arrested.

In a conventional car you just run to the nearest petrol station & grab a can… what do you do with an electric car? Grab some AA batteries?

1) Don't run out of juice, given that it's very cheap and available at home there isn't really an excuse to not have it topped up to "100%" each morning. You would then have to sit in the car for 4 hours watching it go flat at 70mph and do nothing about it, i.e. you would really have to exhibit a lack of planning and try hard to run one flat.

On the autobahn, in Germany, both would have you arrested.

Going on a UK motorway in car without enough petrol is also an offence.

2) 100% isn't 100%, they manage the batteries between something like 15% and 85% to prolong their life. Dunno what it does when it hits 0% (i.e. 15%), would seem sensible to put you into a limp home (or to the nearest charging point) mode? They actually did an OTA during the blackouts a few years ago to increase the range to allow for unreliable access to charging.

3) Presumably you'd just get a tow like the AA/RAC are now expected to deal with punctures as people either don't want to get mucky DIYing a wheel change or cars don't carry a spare.

I assume you mean the mean journey length.  But it’s a pointless statistic because we know many journeys are a lot longer, and it’s those that are the issue.

well, it was a half-remembered stat from the last time it came up. hence 'AFAIR'. of course many journeys are a lot longer, i think we all understand that, but it doesn't change the fact that many will also be shorter, for which electric is more than capable, which was the point i was trying to illustrate.

Tesla, like most other electric cars, warns long before you get too low and will start to limit performance as you get very low.

The last bit of that theoretical trip, showing chargers within 5 miles of the route:

[img] [/img]

So even if one was out of action, you're rarely far from another option - even if it was a slower charger that would take a bit longer to get enough to keep you going to the next fast one. And as with a petrol or diesel car, you generally avoid getting that low just in case a petrol station is out.

Assuming you carry it, almost all EVs come with an adaptor that will plug into any domestic socket. So literally any home or business with electricity can help you get a few miles into your car if you're stuck.

Absolute worst case, call for recovery. AA and RAC have done trials of portable units that can go in their vans that will put about 10 miles of range into a car (usually enough to get a charger) and save a flatbed. But I think it happens so rarely with EVs that it's not been a big enough problem to bother with.

Quote surprised how easy the journey would be.

The hotel I saw the tesla in also had a charge point.

tate of mind issues there… Over spec yourself for 362 days for the 3 others?

That's exactly what people do.  My supposedly eco-friendly sister bought a 4x4 for the same sorts of numbers regarding snow.

Minds need to be changed though.  Imagine if cars had never been able to do more than 200 miles without an hour's break.  We'd still be driving around Europe just the same only marginally more slowly.  It would make no difference at all to life.

My mates a Tesla fanflapper and is on his second “ludicrously fast thnigummbob” says the fist gem was only good for real world driving of about 220miles full to 5miles before you call the AA out.

New version, he says, can do 250.. so that’s a whopping 30miles more. I reckon that’s one small step for man and one giant leap of ludicrous for mankind.

He says he stops 4 times when in that there Urop on the way to Lake Garda, with his Moth Dinghy on the roof.. says 80kph ave is achieved by cruise control and not playing with the toys and air con. Which is partially ok, were you not paying Stella amounts for a human flesh carrying machine that has to par boil its occupants whilst on holibobs.

He has said he’s seen plenty on the roadside that have run out of battery, and he has too 3 times in the most inconvenient moments.

I still think unless that Bloke stops tweeting about alleged perverts and puts money into the power grid I’m totally off whatever product he claims to be involved in.

Oh, and my mate wears a cardigan... which says a lot.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/electric-car-fiasco-strands-isabel-hardman-bb5ww2sk0

It is every electric car driver’s nightmare: becoming stranded during a long journey after running out of power.

Isabel Hardman, 32, a journalist and author, was left stranded on Friday after being unable to recharge her Nissan Leaf while driving from south Cumbria to a book festival in Wigtown, Dumfries and Galloway.

Despite leaving seven hours to make the four-hour journey, she arrived 45 minutes late after charging points operated by the green energy firm Ecotricity were out of order. She was picked up in a car sent by the festival organiser.

Returning to her car yesterday, she found that the chargers were still not working. Hardman was told the maintenance team does not work at weekends. “I think I can now confidently say it <span class="paywall-EAB47CFD">is a stupid idea to get an electric car,” she tweeted.</span>

Returning to her car yesterday, she found that the chargers were still not working. Hardman was told the maintenance team does not work at weekends. “I think I can now confidently say it <span class=”paywall-EAB47CFD”>is a stupid idea to get an electric car,” she tweeted.

Well I think that just killed it then......

I work for a german energy company with offices in Swindon.  Several of our execs have access to Tesla’s so there’s every chance that your German plate car just popped down the M5.  No sweat 💦

I'm quite amazed that people still think electric cars are for just going to the shops, I've been driving them for 3 years including several 900+ mile trips* from the East Midlands to the West and Northern coasts of Ireland and back, and that was back when I had a car capable of about 90 miles on a charge. My current car was returning 140 miles to a charge this summer and charged so fast on our last trip to Northern Ireland from Derbyshire that the trip took no longer than when we used to do it in a diesel. Just under three years and 28,000 miles of EV driving and I've never once been near to be stranded and I've probably took my EVs further from home than 90% of diesel/petrol cars ever get.

* approximate charging costs of each trip £12 🙂

It is every electric car driver’s nightmare: becoming stranded during a long journey after running out of power.

Not that different to arriving at a petrol station to find it closed or out of fuel or something, is it?  This happened to us once when I was a kid - we were on fumes and the place had closed.  Of course the lesson is not to leave it that late, which also applies here I think

Again - not a huge deal - if petrol cars had never been invented we'd be taking all this in our stride.

My mates a Tesla fanflapper and is on his second “ludicrously fast thnigummbob” says the fist gem was only good for real world driving of about 220miles full to 5miles before you call the AA out.

New version, he says, can do 250.. so that’s a whopping 30miles more. I reckon that’s one small step for man and one giant leap of ludicrous for mankind.

He says he stops 4 times when in that there Urop on the way to Lake Garda, with his Moth Dinghy on the roof.. says 80kph ave is achieved by cruise control and not playing with the toys and air con. Which is partially ok, were you not paying Stella amounts for a human flesh carrying machine that has to par boil its occupants whilst on holibobs.

He has said he’s seen plenty on the roadside that have run out of battery, and he has too 3 times in the most inconvenient moments.

I still think unless that Bloke stops tweeting about alleged perverts and puts money into the power grid I’m totally off whatever product he claims to be involved in.

Oh, and my mate wears a cardigan… which says a lot.

It's not just me, right?

I assume you mean the mean journey length.  But it’s a pointless statistic because we know many journeys are a lot longer, and it’s those that are the issue.

So the average journey is seven miles. And you’re quibbling about mean lengths?

you know that some journeys are *much* longer (it’s the premise of the whole thread).

The shortest journeys can’t be less than zero, so there must be huge numbers of short journeys to drag the stats down that far.

It’s amazing to me that so many seem to use the “It can’t be done” as a cover for “I don’t understand how it can be done”, or worse “I haven’t bothered to think about it or consider changing my behaviour in the slightest”

My mates a Tesla fanflapper

I see loads in Harrogate, lots of them next to Ashville College.

Anyway, which electric car to pull my caravan to Fort William next May?

A hire car. For that one trip, months away.

A hire car. For that one trip, months away.

A hired electric car, with a towbar?

> I figured the battery would fit in the engine bay.

Far too much weight for that.  They need to be low down in the chassis. On smaller cars they are under the back seats AFAIK.

For well designed cars (the Zoe seems quite sensible, we almost bought one) the battery is basically the entire underside of the car.  Spreads the weight out and keeps the car's centre of gravity nice and low.

A hired electric car, with a towbar?

Or just something similar to what you have now, imagine if tech companies had given up with such trivial problems in the last century.

We could go to the moon but we can't take everybody, best give up then.

Or just something similar to what you have now, imagine if tech companies had given up with such trivial problems in the last century.

We could go to the moon but we can’t take everybody, best give up then.

I'm being reasonably serious. I commute to work 15 miles each way. (cycling is NOT an option thanks to very busy twisty roads & no facilities at work) I have a caravan, (might get a motorhome) I want to help save the planet (I've probably been on it longer than you so I owe it more) What are my options regarding the aforementioned?

Well a current tesla will do all of your commuting needs right now.

https://www.kenhire.uk.com/vehicle-hire-ashford/car-hire-kent/medium-car-tow-bar

https://www.sixt.co.uk/help-advice/driving-laws/towing-capacity/

Looks like people also rent things with tow bars....the more demand the more the market the more the availability.

In all seriousness Essel - you can easily get a Leaf or Zoe or any electric car, then simply hire something with a towbar for a few weeks for your holiday.  The cost would be offset by the fuel savings.

Or there are hybrids that can tow - I think the Outlander might be able to, don't think the Lexus SUV types can - different system.  A Passat GTE could also tow I'm fairly sure.  These plugin ones can do 30-50 miles or so on electricity, but drive on petrol for longer trips.

A Tesla Model X can easily pull your caravan. Most people can't easily afford one of them though.

Dethleffs (I think it was them) showed off a concept small caravan with its own massive battery and electric drivetrain to reduce the load on the towing vehicle. I think they had an BMW i3 towing it.

That's an interesting concept that could solve your caravan problem on the future.

Bonus points if you can hook the caravan up to your house for the 95% of the year you don't use it and utilize the batteries for your house use.

Well a current tesla will do all of your commuting needs right now.

Champion! How much are they? I reckon I could get 11K for the current XTrail we have for towing (does 30mpg towing & 45 otherwise) or 3K for the Mondeo I use for commuting (does around 50mpg everywhere) We 'need' 2 cars cos Mrs EGF uses whichever I'm not using.

Can't see any electric vehicles on those links though.

Given that the vast majority of car journeys are short trips, long range high performance cars like Tesla must ultimately be a bit of a niche market.

Can’t see any electric vehicles on those links though.

Nope those are your plan B towing vehicles, as said any electric would do your commute if you can charge at home.

Not that different to arriving at a petrol station to find it closed or out of fuel or something, is it?  This happened to us once when I was a kid – we were on fumes and the place had closed.  Of course the lesson is not to leave it that late, which also applies here I think

The fact it hasn't happened since you were a kid is indicative of the likelihood of it happening now.  She left 7 hours to make a 4 hour journey and have assumed one charging point would be out of order despite using 4 apps to tell her where they were.  You can read the original article here

https://www.****/news/article-6225039/Nissan-Leafs-range-just-160-miles-good-luck-finding-charging-point-works.html

The funny thing is that despite being very keen on electric vehicles she suffered a pile-on from EV evangelists on Twitter who were upset that she had talked about her real world experience.

In a conventional car you just run to the nearest petrol station

Interesting point… but when did you last make such a stupid mistake? With old cars, where you had to learn to read the gauge, maybe… but modern cars help you so much with "mileage left" calcs, you need to be delibrately careless. I suppose that a big battery car has all the onboard help that any modern car has to help avoid this… in some cases much more.

She left 7 hours to make a 4 hour journey

Can't be arsed following that link, but if her point is that the Leaf has too short a range to regularily risk long journeys, then I'm surprised that even the evangelists didn't agree with her. It's a short commute/schoolrun/shopping machine in any unblinkered eyes.

What she was trying to publicize was the fact that the charging network wasn't delivering what it suggested and until it did people shouldn't rely on it.  She was trying to get the providers to up their game.  She was fully aware of the limitations of her vehicle and had planned accordingly, but the network let her down.

don’t think the Lexus SUV types can

That is correct. Though it’s nothing to do with anything design/mechanical its do do with some UK type approval law that stops Lexus Hybrids being allowed to fit a tow bar.

You can in the rest of the world though, so we must be very special people indeed to get such retarded laws eh.

For most people 200-300 miles between charges is more than enough.

Yep, and if all electric cars had a range of 300 miles AND cost a similar price to the petrol equivalent I am sure 95%+ of people would be buying them.  A range of 80 miles however reduces that 95% dramatically.

Having once (stupidly) bypassed the garage at Gretna and pressed on to the next one, then when that didn't materialise the one after that and the closed one after that and the derelict one after that and the closed one after that eventually giving up in Dalmellington I can see how that could happen in that part of the world. Shockingly not everywhere has fast chargers or even functional forecourts every few miles.

Long range isn't something I'd be using electric for but thenI wouldn't drive to the shop round the corner so horses for courses. If manufacturers included a reasonably price backup hire it would be a non issue for those journeys.

I’m being reasonably serious. I commute to work 15 miles each way.

We used to do 50 miles a day in a Zoe, charged overnight on cheap electricity; it worked out at  1/10th the cost of petrol over a year.

Plus in winter being able to defrost and preheat it before leaving the house or office is AWESOME 🙂

We intended to use it as a second car as we have a petrol car as well, but it's been the other way round as we've not had a problem doing long trips away in the Zoe.