[Closed] I'm Furious! (Nursery content)

Perhaps if you don't like the rules, then she shouldn't be in nursery .....

Kryton57 - Member

I've been told tonight by the Nursery my 2.5yo has been withheld her pudding, as a punishment for refusing to help tidy up. I don't believe they have the moral right to withhold food where available from a growing child. Or am I overreacting?

But that's my first point. The second is that said daughter has an as yet undiagnosed liver/low blood sugar issue which they are aware of, and keeping her hungry aka blood sugars low can send her into seizure in the worse case. So im doubly furious!

Am I right?

Punishing 2.5 yr old! Wow ZMs in new low! FFS! The child is 2.5 yr old 😯

Only ZMs can rationalise such action towards a small child.

You are right to be furious.

Over-reacting IMO. Massively.

But, perhaps your daughters condition does require her to have dessert, I don't know.
What are the potential consequences of her having her main meal but no dessert?

Do you supply her meals to control her condition, or is it provided by the nursery? If provided by the nursery, is this adequate? Can they be expected to be responsible for controlling her condition/dietary requirements? Would it be better for your daughter if you provided the nursery with the necessary meals for her?
Dunno the answer to these questions. I don't yet have kids, but if I did these would be the questions I'd be asking...

Kryton57 - Member

I didn't creat a medical history , to tart up an Internet post Project, what do you take me for? She's being treated for sudden crashing of blood sugars when in a fasted or deprived state

The question's still there- was she in a "fasted or deprived state", or did she just not have any pudding?

If she's got a condition relating to hypoglycaemia, then pudding without solid food is a stupid idea and you need to address that. Sugar on top of a fast could insulin crash her and almost certainly destabilise her blood sugar worse than no food at all. This is a proper serious point.

But if she'd already had proper food within a few hours before, then she shouldn't need dessert to keep her functioning either- she's not fasted or deprived.

Either way- "depriving" her of pudding is a nonissue for her health, but it's possible that there's another health issue here.

I strongly suspect she was "deprived" of a treat not a staple but you've not cleared that up so there's a bit of speculation there.

phil40 - Member

Nurseries have no right to deny food at ant time, even pudding

Do they have an obligation to provide pudding? Can they give treats for doing something good, like tidying up?

The nursery should have clearly defined discipline policies.
This sort of thing is their bread & butter.

Perhaps she didn't help because she spotted Dick playing with Victoria's sponge. I scream if someone plays with mine.

What are we getting all aireated about now?
Nothing bad happened, hopefully your child might learn a lesson. If you speak to the nursery I'd suggest you thank them for their discipline, but agree suitable punishment for your daughter.
Perhaps start with Chinese burns, then the typewriter building up in severity until you get to red hot needles under the fingernails?
Or perhaps just let them get on with their job, mmm?
Thus leaving you free to post tedious minutae on stw throughout the day.

[quote=bigyinn ]Thus leaving you free to post tedious minutae on stw throughout the day.Are you suggesting that the OP, being extremely concerned about his daughters health, should consider some sort of full-time parental oversight until the issues have been identified and/or resolved?

Not intended at all to be a cheap shot (we all have different lives) but have you seen SaxonRider's post?

Properly upsetting and personally it's putting my own woes in perspective.

Just a thought.

Did they offer you the desert when you picked her up? You have paid for it after all 😉

[b]sue t[/b]hem

When my kids didn't tidy up (or whatever) they got no treats, ice cream, sweets, TV time etc etc.
The eldest one is 31 & the youngest is 28. Both doing very well, never been in bother (as far as I know!) Well mannered & generally good lads with good jobs & responsibilities.
Just saying OP.

Get a grip, you left her in their custardy

I'm sorry that your daughter is having these problems, and it must be pretty scary for you.

FWIW, I think you've overreacted, but it's entirely understandable. I'd think that the best thing you can do for your daughter is to focus positively, and constructively on ensuring that she gets the best, most balanced, nutritious diet you can, and if that means you being a pain in the arse at the nursery, then so what? They'll get over it. But be positive and constructive, unless you just want someone to get shouted at, or sacked, which is unlikely to directly benefit your daughter's health.

Best wishes for her quick recovery and return to full fitness..

oh

and

FWIW I think it's a bit shit that if a guy's daughter is having unexplained seizures, people think it's okay to be making 'coma' puns about it.

Did I read it right or did someone who actually knows about this stuff quote UN conventions on human rights in relation to this?

Is deprivation of pudding a human rights breach?

FFS please no one let my kids know about this, they'll have me in Strasbourg...

[i]Apologies to Kryton for being naughty, now lets assume your daughter was elderley and she had ben deprived of a part of her meal, would that be anymore acceptable.

No refusing people food no matter what age for petty non medical reasons eg dietry, weight loss allergies, etc is not acceptable.

Report the matter to Care standards and see what they do/say, they inspect child care establishments.
[/i]

This.

You are quite within your rights to act as you did, but you also need to be prepared to follow though anything you decide to do; ie ultimately, to move to a different nursery.

I would be booking a meeting with them asap to discuss.

Too right ,go in strong and if they put you under any pressure ..don't crumble.

Furious may be a bit too far but the nursery were wrong IMO.

Using food as reward/punishment is just a way to create issues with food later in life and pudding is a great source of energy for kids.

I'd be almost certain it's not policy to withhold food either, a quiet word with the nursery manager will garner an apology and ensure it doesn't happen again.

The medical issues probably mean you're a bit more on edge about it but it shouldn't be a big deal.

I'd be pissed off.

Did they offer any explanation about why she wouldn't tidy up? Was she tired, hungry, angry, in pain? Did they make sure that she understood the cause and effect nature of not getting pudding? How did she take it, was she not bothered or screaming her head off and sobbing uncontrollably?

A lot of the responses on here remind me of the old, 'I got smacked when I was growing up and it never did me any harm.' Society changes and child rearing is one of those things that imporves over time. I'm sure it feels like kids today are ten times worse than in your day but that's simply not the case. Take off the rose tinted spectacles.

I got punished a lot as a kid. I grew up to be an outwardly polite and friendly guy. On the inside, however, I'm angry far too often than can possibly be healthy. Unfortunately the only people who really suffer from this are the people closest to me.

I'm not saying that one thing caused the other. Maybe I'm just naturally predisposed towards anger and frustration but I can't help but feel that it's linked to the frustration I felt at being so powerless to prevent punishments that I didn't fully understand what I had done to earn them.

Two and a half is very young. Intention, results, cause, and effect are all jumbled up at that age and punishment is not the best way to teach kids the difference. All it does is create confusion and insecurity.

Best thread in ages!
Sorry OP, you've overreacted a tad.

edlong - Member

ensuring that she gets the best, most balanced, nutritious diet you can

No pudding ever again, in other words. That'll larn her

judging by the sheer widths of the arses of my kids' former nursery staff I'd bet that that pudding didn't go uneaten...

OP - I think the nursery are in the wrong. Food should not be withheld regardless of the fact it is pudding.

TOTY in the making here.

Kryton, you post too much.

she then started going on about the UNCRC (1989) welfare requirements

I love everything about this absurd thread with its Mumsnet-level lunacy and its puns, but the idea that the UN has insisted that pudding is an internationally-recognised right, for even ill-disciplined children is one of my favourite bits.

🙂

What time did this happen? After Eight?

OP you only 'manage' one child.

They have to cope with alot more.

I withold pudding and by eck it bloody works on our son.

[URL= http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff167/LukeBurstow/oldstuff/Dessert_zpspkko8vxb.pn g" target="_blank">http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff167/LukeBurstow/oldstuff/Dessert_zpspkko8vxb.pn g"/> [/IMG][/URL]

The point my wife was making (she bought up uncrc) is that there are more appropriate consequences to use with a child, rather than withholding food, and to be fair she knows a lot more about this area than any of us!

We are a signaturary of the convention and it does enshrine rights for children (I always thought they only had the right to silence!).

The point my wife was making (she bought up uncrc) is that there are more appropriate consequences to use with a child, rather than withholding food, and to be fair she knows a lot more about this area than any of us!

With all due respect to your wife, I know enough about it to be confident that the UN do not think that children have a right to pudding regardless of bad behaviour.

Article 37 of the UNCRC provides that: "[i]No child shall be subjected to torture or other cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment. Neither capital punishment nor life imprisonment without possibility of release shall be imposed for offences committed by persons below eighteen years of age;[/i]".

I don't think that covers this situation... 🙂

When was pudding relegated from "food" to "treat"?

Some children are going without pudding!! Act now!! Text PUDDING to 27815. End this inhumanity today!

She's being treated for sudden crashing of blood sugars when in a fasted or deprived state by GOSH by medical personnel btw not the cleaner, , the underlying cause is not yet known.

But given that they fed her, that's not really the issue here.

That said, as the parent of two children who go to nursery, I would not expect them to use the withdrawal of food as a punishment. They are in the wrong; you have overreacted. I'd be having a quiet word with them.

I'm just waiting for the follow up thread telling about the evil commandant of the nursery giving extra helpings of sugary puddings to a child with potential blood sugar issues as a reward for good behaviour.

Cheered me up this one, cheers Kryton.

🙂

Some children are going without pudding!! Act now!! Text PUDDING to 27815. End this inhumanity today!

I did ACTUALLY lol 😀

And this ...

If in 20 years she still harbours anger and resentment over the matter I'd burn the place down. Play the long game.

This has been a great thread!

When was pudding relegated from "food" to "treat"?

When given after dinner or when being thrown in a food fight and your running low on ammunition. Oh, and on Tuesdays.

By taking our kids to nursery we have to let other adults have the responsibility and the continuity of the decision making that day, after all they are in charge;

in no-cake parentis

conventions are about interpretation, and given that she lectures this stuff to undergraduates, and also works as an Ofsted inspector for nurseries (not the care quality commission). I would say her view still trumps ours!

Btw I got in t!rouble because I thought it was pretty reasonable punishment, but then again I used to think a smack was okay......how wrong I was 🙂

conventions are about interpretation, and given that she lectures this stuff to undergraduates, and also works as an Ofsted inspector for nurseries (not the care quality commission). I would say her view still trumps ours!

If that's the case, then heaven help us. The UN spends time and effort (and money) to come up with conventions to protect truly needy people and someone imagines that it applies to sponge and custard? WT actual F is the place coming to?

Also NATO article 5 includes lunch boxes and flasks within any signatory country.

By taking our kids to nursery we have to let other adults have the responsibility and the continuity of the decision making that day, after all they are in charge;

We pay them to look after our children, and in return, anything goes? I disagree.

[img] [/img]

Treacle sponge or chocolate sponge?

Now that the trials of war criminals from former Yugoslavia are winding down, there's a building going spare in The Hague. Obvious solution, really.

OP take her out of the nursery then and into a new one.

State that she can eat whatever she wants when she wants. After all shes your Princess and she can have what she wants.

When you've got a nightmare on your hands you'll then go onto to blame her school teachers, etc and not yourself?

School rang me up 'your 4yr old fell out of a tree whilst playing and scratched his face'.

Ok.

What else could I say? Stop him climbing trees? I just laughed.

conventions are about interpretation, and given that she lectures this stuff to undergraduates, and also works as an Ofsted inspector for nurseries (not the care quality commission). I would say her view still trumps ours!

I am happy to acknowledge that it would be interesting to see her reasoned opinion on the case, while agreeing in broad principle with DrJ. It sounds daft, but that doesn't mean of course mean that she's not correct.

🙂

When you've got a nightmare on your hands you'll then go onto to blame her school teachers, etc and not yourself?

And people accuse the OP of a lack of perspective...

School rang me up 'your 4yr old fell out of a tree whilst playing and scratched his face'.

Ok.

What else could I say? Stop him climbing trees? I just laughed.

And if he'd come home with a scratch on his face and no explanation? they didn't phone to let you know, they phoned to cover their arse...

[i]"Nurseries have set millions aside for PPI (Particularly Pampered Infants)"[/i]

Were YOU denied pudding?
Did YOU trip over a soft toy and graze your hand or bump your knee?

Call now to talk to one of our advisors and claim your free packet of Angel Delight

they have to do that so that if he drops dead you wont sue.
Its a response to the claim culture so dont blame schools blame the ****ers who sue schoold

For example my son got rushed to hospital as he cut his head on a nail* - act of vandalism the school had not noted. They were relived we did not sue as they would have had to pay out for the injury and trauma. I filed it under shit happens but plenty of folk would have seen the pound signs. Probably have got a few thousand for it.
* fairly minor but two stitches

So, on a public forum, you ask folk to judge your reaction to a scenario then when they oblige you respond with

Kryton57 - Member
Jesus Christ, how judgemental.

I'm in awe 😆

And if he'd come home with a scratch on his face and no explanation? they didn't phone to let you know, they phoned to cover their arse...

No I was glad that they let him climb the tree/have the opportunity.

They could easily have told me when I got to the school to collect him.

However I appreciate some parents would go batshitmental that they weren't told within 0.5sec's of the event happening so they could have the choice to rush round, etc etc.

I imagine some are right tools. I just said 'oh really (laughed abit) then said 'thats him allover'.

When he was 2 he went OTB on the velodrome BMX track so I'm not that ****tish '£££-compo' as a parent 😀

Jesus Christ, how judgemental.

Actually, JC supports Kryton on this one:

Luke 18:16 - 'Soufflé little children to come unto me'

and 'Bleesed are the cheesecakers'

slowoldman - Member

When was pudding relegated from "food" to "treat"?

Why not both?

[i]Why not both? [/i]

Freat?

Trood?

If they accuse you of being petit, filous a complaint form.

[img] [/img]

Ah, Pink Floyd...

sudden crashing of blood sugars when in a fasted or deprived state

This has been done but worth repeating....she'd already eaten therefore her bloodsugars werent in danger of crashing because she wasnt in a deprived or fasted state.

I had this at about the same age, this is going back 30=odd years and it didnt have a name then (maybe things are different now?)....i was just burning through my calories too quickly, massively fast metabolism....advice to my Mother from the Docs at the time was to 'give me a spoonful of sugar if i looked peaky'...it worked, i was fine.

I'd suggest you could also create food issues by giving your daughter what food she wants when she wants it because you're scared of her having low blood sugars...children arent daft and she'll soon work out the link and play on this...

"daddy i want some chocolate?"

"no"

"daddy i dont feel well"

Hmmm.....

State that she can eat whatever she wants when she wants. After all shes your Princess and she can have what she wants.

When you've got a nightmare on your hands you'll then go onto to blame her school teachers, etc and not yourself?

Haha, yep....Hora gets it.

Its not that indulged children become monsters as adults (generally they dont, it tends to wear off in late teens)...its that you make life so much harder for them as young adults, they get used to having everything their own way and then go into the big wide world and realise it isnt like that and have a very unhappy time adjusting to people telling them "no".

Massive over reaction IMO.

hora - Member
And if he'd come home with a scratch on his face and no explanation? they didn't phone to let you know, they phoned to cover their arse...
No I was glad that they let him climb the tree/have the opportunity.

They could easily have told me when I got to the school to collect him.

However I appreciate some parents would go batshitmental that they weren't told within 0.5sec's of the event happening so they could have the choice to rush round, etc etc.

I imagine some are right tools. I just said 'oh really (laughed abit) then said 'thats him allover'.

When he was 2 he went OTB on the velodrome BMX track so I'm not that ****tish '£££-compo' as a parent

POSTED 29 MINUTES AGO #

Just to counterbalance your point my step son fell over at school , banged his head , the school didn't tell us and nor did he . Next day he collapses at home , goes into a coma , nearly dies and comes out 3 months later with brain damage and his life pretty much ruined . Had the school told us then his treatment would have been much quicker and his prognosis significantly better .

Just chat to the nursery. Tell them you'll keep her in there but it's conditori on them giving her pudding.
The whole thing sounds like a very delicatessen situation.

Had the school told us then his treatment would have been much quicker and his prognosis significantly better

Be honest - would you have taken him to the hospital and would they have scanned him?

waiting with baited breath to hear about the stern talking to the nursery received this morning!

Not acceptable.

Unless you have agreed that this is an acceptable penalty.

The blood sugar thing is a red herring.

Go and speak to them and tell them that you do not agree and they need to be a bit more creative.

If they give you any static, move the child and let slip the auditors of ballache (CQC/OFSTED)

legend - Member
waiting with baited breath to hear about the stern talking to the nursery received this morning

Too late for that
The UN negotiation & arbitration team have been briefed (by another posters wife] so they have now taken over the incident

Just to counterbalance your point my step son fell over at school , banged his head , the school didn't tell us and nor did he . Next day he collapses at home , goes into a coma , nearly dies and comes out 3 months later with brain damage and his life pretty much ruined . Had the school told us then his treatment would have been much quicker and his prognosis significantly better .

Thing is would you have taken him to hospital that day if he came home looked ok/talked ok but only deteriorated the next day?

wanmankylung - Member
Had the school told us then his treatment would have been much quicker and his prognosis significantly better
Be honest - would you have taken him to the hospital and would they have scanned him?

POSTED 31 MINUTES AGO #

hora - Member
Just to counterbalance your point my step son fell over at school , banged his head , the school didn't tell us and nor did he . Next day he collapses at home , goes into a coma , nearly dies and comes out 3 months later with brain damage and his life pretty much ruined . Had the school told us then his treatment would have been much quicker and his prognosis significantly better .
Thing is would you have taken him to hospital that day if he came home looked ok/talked ok but only deteriorated the next day?

POSTED 20 MINUTES AGO # REPORT-POST

We would have taken him straight to hospital , not to the doctors first and when we were at the hospital they would have CAT scanned him straight away rather than trying to find out if he had been taking drugs , sniffing glue , had an allergic reaction to something and various other possibilities.
After a 10 year battle the court agreed with us that at least 3 hours would have been saved and his outcome would have been significantly better . I have been told that his case is the reason why children always get a note to take home if they have any kind of accident at school .

Thing is would you have taken him to hospital that day if he came home looked ok/talked ok but only deteriorated the next day?

OP - over reaction in my opinion. If you don't trust the nursery to act on your behalf then find another nursery. You can't always have a set response to a childs behaviour, even if the no pudding thing were an off the cuff 'punishment' it was done for a reason. I would hope that nursery staff are pretty well versed in how to get a child to do what is asked without calling the parents to ask advice or resorting to a checklist. In this case it sounds like the staff member made a call and you need to trust them a little.

Are you micro-managed at work? Ever been? Now put yourself in the shoes of the nursery staff you're criticising.

[quote=DrJ ]Now that the trials of war criminals from former Yugoslavia are winding down, there's a building going spare in The Hague. Obvious solution, really.

Yes - a friend of mine works at the ICTY ( International Criminal Tribunal for Yugoslavia ) cataloguing and checking statements and media files entered as evidence. He rarely speaks about the sort of videos that he has to look at, but once mentioned that sometimes the perpetrators had videoed themselves torturing and killing people for fun.

As his job is coming to an end perhaps we could all, as citizens of the world, press our respective governments to constitute an International Criminal Tribunal for The Denial Of Pudding and keep my friend in employment - albeit that we would inevitably have to put in place some form of counselling for those who heard the shocking evidence of an uncooperative child not getting any pudding once.

[quote=hora ]They could easily have told me when I got to the school to collect him.
However I appreciate some parents would go batshitmental that they weren't told within 0.5sec's of the event happening so they could have the choice to rush round, etc etc.

I've been phoned up to be told similar, and everybody in the school knows me and I'm sure also my attitude to things like this (am currently sitting in the school typing whilst waiting for IT stuff to install). Just standard practice, and with good reason given RN's experiences. Like everybody else I don't rush to A&E when I get such a report, but as he successfully argued, having the knowledge makes a difference in what treatment you seek if there is a subsequent problem.

[quote=Ramsey Neil ]Next day he collapses at home , goes into a coma , nearly dies and comes out 3 months later with brain damage and his life pretty much ruined . Had the school told us then his treatment would have been much quicker and his prognosis significantly better .

Much sympathy for you and your son.

waiting with baited breath to hear about the stern talking to the nursery received this morning!

Apparently, they gave the OP his daughters leftover pudding, and he's agreed to drop all charges.

Bit of a mix-up at the nursery, think they gave the pudding to the other UN so I can see why the United Nations might have to be involved
[img] [/img]

Well, one thing I've learned here:

I'm looking forward to becoming a parent in the next few years but OTHER PARENTS ARE MENTAL.

Look at you lot!

I look forward to receiving my membership to the "mine is better than yours" club.

Looks like the OP has [u]deserted[/u] the place

We would have taken him straight to hospital , not to the doctors first and when we were at the hospital they would have CAT scanned him straight away rather than trying to find out if he had been taking drugs , sniffing glue , had an allergic reaction to something and various other possibilities.

How do you know that they would have scanned him straight away? I've taken my kids to the sick kids hospital a couple of times after they had a bang to the head - no scans, despite being symptomatic.

The amount of times our lad had a bruise on his head (ran into other child, fell off picnic table in nursery etc). With hindsight maybe we should have too but he wasn't sick, listless or withdrawn etc so we just thought it was kids being kids.

[i]How do you know that they would have scanned him straight away?[/i]

Just a guess but "because he's been to court and all parties have agreed that at least 3 hours was lost due to the information not being known by the parents or medical staff".

Give the guy a break - it sounds like they've had a shit time and had to go to court to get whatever help their son needs as a result of this incident. He shouldn't have to run the gauntlet of the STW armchair lawyers and medics.

Agree ^ my angle is how would the school (or me) know if its a simple fall. Sometimes things can develop. sometimes its just a headache. Hard to call (in general).