[Closed] I'm fed up with the European Union and all thier faceless BS.

You what? Since when?
That sounds like a Mail made-up story

Source?

Lbc 97.3 fm

You believe everything you hear on the radio?

Anything like this blamed on Europe or H&S is usually horseshit in some way.

It's Hore shit.

Stunned Graham Rowson, 60, was told he was in a smokeless zone and risked a £1,000 fine under the 1993 Clean Air Act.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/449465/Health-and-safety-ban-on-pub-s-log-fires

You what? Since when?
That sounds like a Mail made-up story

Sounds like made up bobbins to me

Is it like polish people eating swans or banning straight bananas?

IME other Europeans just happily ignore EC directives. I suggest we do the same. [serIous face] But our press seem to take it all very seriously.

Stunned Graham Rowson, 60, was told he was in a smokeless zone and risked a £1,000 fine under the 1993 Clean Air Act.

Is that the EU clean air law, brought in as a response to the famous Brussels pea soup fogs of the 50s?

Did someone mention the Wail

http://boingboing.net/2012/11/10/precisely-why-the-daily-ma.html

Talk radio show comes with with twoddle to get the idiots aroused shocker!

so he is talking ****ocks then, nothing to do with H&S and everything to do with smog and pollution.

Yup and he can still use the fires just has to use smokeless fuel.

Are you sure its not a UK implementation of an EU directive that is the issue - as AFAIK the EU hasn't the power to implement anything, and relies upon the member-state to do so, with their own interpretation.

Also nothing whatsoever to do with the EU, the clean air acts are all UK law.

Is that the EU clean air law, brought in as a response to the famous Brussels pea soup fogs of the 50s?

Yes, they decided that, in spite of Britain being so much more forward thinking and changing its power supplies and considering the welfare of its populace, they'd continue filling Brussels, a city with a large tidal river noted for its fogs, with power station smoke and fumes from industry without a care for the health, or indeed, safety of their inhabitants.

So overzealous were they, that they thought, "I know, we'll wait 40 years to create legislation to make sure the capitalist pigs and their inefficient industries will damned well pay!"

Any way pubs can have log fires as long as they're not in a smokeless zone or if they are use the right burner.

The EU isn't faceless, we elect them democratically

Get that to the HSE myth busting team.

Are you sure its not a UK implementation of an EU directive that is the issue - as AFAIK the EU hasn't the power to implement anything, and relies upon the member-state to do so, with their own interpretation.

*EU Regulations have direct effect in member state law.
*EU Directives have to be interpreted by member state legislatures and created in local law.

Which country do you think has been one of the slowest at implementing EU law? That's right, Her Britannic Majesty's United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

****ing Daily ****ing Mail whinging ****s need to get a ****ing grip.

If you'd just invoked immigrants or cancer I would have given this rant 10/10. Dubious source, swearing, rhetoric, even the briefest of research reveals the whole thing to be baseless and completely misdirected. Have you considered standing for UKIP?

No real hope for the future of this country. We'll be voted out of the EU based on a bunch of lies...

The last straw... Believing some toss about No more log fires in pubs because it's a health and safety issue. **** right off Europe. We are an island of Daily mail readers, We shall defend our [s]island [/s] ignorance and inability to use google whatever the cost may be in making us look foolish...

[s]Freedom[/s] Education and free thinking! Not round here, thank you very much

Yep got more time for the EU and some of the good it's done and would take it any day over the ignorant hate filled bile that comes from the mail, express and radio talk shows.

More of this sort of stuff would help
http://www.sbs.com.au/goback/
Mostly take a load of "I'm not a racist but...." types and show them why people are trying to seek asylum.

Can always move to the Ukraine!

More bothered about my taxes bailing out basket case economies like Ireland and Cyprus TBH

Have the EU not banned baby Jesus' birthday this year then? I bet they have, the bastards, well them or the Muslims. Mind due it was probably those Rumanians. I herer they are all criminals, though I haven't met one. The Poles mind they're ever so nice one of them fixed my boiler thee other day dead cheap he was too, didn't even want a cup of tea, they're a funny lot really.

[quote=bloodynora ]More bothered about my taxes bailing out basket case economies like Ireland and Cyprus TBH
are you not worried it also went on our banks, at some considerable costs socially and economically. Shall we ignore that fact and pretend its a Euro fault..the bastards etc

You might be happy to bail out those bastards as you call them but I'm not. Roll on the vote

Those bastards and their economies are different legs of the same table...

Quite like mainland Europe, they seem to make better decisions than the UK. Have better food, better work laws, better retirement, better communities, less stressed , less fat.

Based purely on possibly unrepresentative first hand experience.

Those bastards and their economies are different legs of the same table...

Nah, we're Britannia mate. Left to our own devices fully independent and self sufficient at all levels. No international economics or politics effect us on our sacred untouchable isles*
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*this may well be bllx

You forgot to mention single mums, feral children, people who don't hold doors open, careless parking and those young people who wear jeans so low their y-fronts are on show who insist on playing their transistor radios VERY loudly with their modern " hippity hoppity music" that causes cancer.

Bring back the birch I say and while we are at it we can also bring back the glorious elm that all the flippin foreigners poisoned in the 1970s, oh yes they said it was only insects but they were foreign insect sent over to kill the trees....foreign unemployed insects that were here illegally and all on benefits.

😉

errrm, so other than the UK law about burning stuff in a clean air zone that's been around since 1956 (amended 1993) is there anything new from the EU about wood fires in pubs?

Lol at all the scoffing, but I can't believe there isn't others on here who believe we had some of our civil liberties removed due to agreement with euro law. Understandably we get more than we give, but let's face it with the exception of our currency, we are actually "Europe" now aren't we? This is of course partly of our own making - for example the wielding of our national flag is often perceived and therefore questioned as an borderline racists act in some cases forcing some to be timid in its use.

I'd prefer - for all nations not just us - that a sense if national identity is preserved. I love travelling to other countries and experiencing different cultures, but how long before travelling in Europe will be, well travelling in Europe, whereby you can pretty much explore any European culture on the shelves of Sainsburys?

Kryton57 - Member
Lol at all the scoffing, but I can't believe there isn't others on here who believe we had some of our civil liberties removed due to agreement with euro law.

Such as?

Understandably we get more than we give, but let's face it with the exception of our currency, we are actually "Europe" now aren't we? This is of course partly of our own making - for example the wielding of our national flag is often perceived and therefore questioned as an borderline racists act in some cases forcing some to be timid in its use.

We've always been Europe FFS, look at history book.

I'd prefer - for all nations not just us - that a sense if national identity is preserved.

What's our national identity then? I'd prefer if we got rid of this petty 'Nations' nonsense and began to properly move forward in cooperation rather than competition.

I love travelling to other countries and experiencing different cultures, but how long before travelling in Europe will be, well travelling in Europe, whereby you can pretty much explore any European culture on the shelves of Sainsburys?

Don't really know what you mean by that, but culture in Sainsburys?

ur doing it wrong

[i]We've always been Europe FFS, look at [s]history[/s] geography book.[/i]

ftfy

Well that too, but in terms of involvement with 'the continent' (which we are still part of, obviously)

I can't believe there isn't others on here who believe we had some of our civil liberties removed due to agreement with euro law

for example the wielding of our national flag is often perceived and therefore questioned as an borderline racists act

Lol at all the scoffing, but I can't believe there isn't others on here who believe we had some of our civil liberties removed due to agreement with euro law.

Like what?

What did the EEC/EU ever do for us? Not much, apart from: providing 57% of our trade; structural funding to areas hit by industrial decline; clean beaches and rivers; cleaner air; lead free petrol; restrictions on landfill dumping; a recycling culture; cheaper mobile charges; cheaper air travel; improved consumer protection and food labelling; a ban on growth hormones and other harmful food additives; better product safety; single market competition bringing quality improvements and better industrial performance; break up of monopolies; Europe-wide patent and copyright protection; no paperwork or customs for exports throughout the single market; price transparency and removal of commission on currency exchanges across the eurozone; freedom to travel, live and work across Europe; funded opportunities for young people to undertake study or work placements abroad; access to European health services; labour protection and enhanced social welfare; smoke-free workplaces; equal pay legislation; holiday entitlement; the right not to work more than a 48-hour week without overtime; strongest wildlife protection in the world; improved animal welfare in food production; EU-funded research and industrial collaboration; EU representation in international forums; bloc EEA negotiation at the WTO; EU diplomatic efforts to uphold the nuclear non-proliferation treaty; European arrest warrant; cross border policing to combat human trafficking, arms and drug smuggling; counter terrorism intelligence; European civil and military co-operation in post-conflict zones in Europe and Africa; support for democracy and human rights across Europe and beyond; investment across Europe contributing to better living standards and educational, social and cultural capital.

Oh, and a mostly peaceful Europe for the last 60 years.

Kryton57 earlier...
[img] [/img]

I for one hope those pesky human rights are stopped as soon as possible. I demand the right to be subjugated and demeaned by anybody with more power or wealth than I have.

Lol at all the scoffing, but I can't believe there isn't others on here who believe we had some of our civil liberties removed due to agreement with euro law.

What civil liberties do *you* feel you've had removed?
By the way I'm not suggesting that you haven't had some removed, just interested in knowing what.

Lifer +1

WTF do smokeless zones have to do with the EU?

Daily Wail bollocks.

WTF do smokeless zones have to do with the EU?

Cos Johnny foreigner has them too, therefore IT'S THEIR FAULT!

For chrissakes, some self-important landlord esteems that his establishment is above a law that the rest of the community has to abide by and would never lower himself to the point of using the smokeless alternative, because they don't look like logs. What a ****.

I'd prefer - for all nations not just us - that a sense if national identity is preserved.

The EU is not eroding national identity. Not even remotely. Don't be ridiculous. Where's the legislation banning English culture or language? Incidentally, for many hundreds of years the English did exactly that to the Welsh.

And as for experiencing international culture in Sainsbury's - do me a favour. There's more to culture than food obviously.

let's face it with the exception of our currency, we are actually "Europe" now aren't we?

We are Europe, but we are also Britain. Here, I'm also Wales, South Wales and South East Wales. If you think we're all homogenous I suggest you pop over to somewhere like Poland for a year or two, see if there's any difference.

I'm crap at politics, and am failing to explain myself properly.

I think what I'm trying to say, is that I'd prefer to see national identities, cultures etc preserved. I have no issues of opening borders etc, but do understand the issues that cause a flood of migrates to country "A", because that country has a benefits system that makes it easy for it to become flooded with people (nationals too) that are here becuase of the ease of living in comparison. Obviously that country may be overburdened by this.

Also with relation to the English flag - I'd like to be proud of "being English", not subdued and told - for example - that I can't drink Bitter anymore, because too much gives you the shits. That kind of thing.

Similarly, I want to be able to go to say, Romania and experience a genuiune Romanian culture. I don't want to be in a Romanian high street only to find out that I might as well have gone to Croydon.

Not sure if that makes sense. I should probably give up if not. 😐

We are Europeans : celts Saxons Normans Vikings you name it and we're it. We're separated from the continent by a narrow passage of water. You can see France from Kent

As for national Identity? Have you been to other euro countries and mixed, no one is losing their identity.

Stop being to bloody insular!

think what I'm trying to say, is .......

Fair enough. But what does that have to do with not using smokeless logs? 😕

Buzz - as by generalisation yes. But my nationality is British, despite the fact I have a Danish hereditary.

bails - Member
think what I'm trying to say, is .......
Fair enough. But what does that have to do with not using smokeless logs?

Nothing - that got misunderstood. I wasn't referring to that article. I was referring to a report on Steve Allens LBC97.3 show yesterday, that there is a Euro-Law being passed that bans the use of open fires in public house on health and safety grounds. I have contacted Mr Allen to seek the source for the benefit of this thread.

I'd give up if I were the OP. You've woken the lefties. 😀

Indeed DD. - btw I'm fleetingly in your part of the world on Jan7 - you wanted a favor? Email if so.

Also with relation to the English flag - I'd like to be proud of "being English", not subdued and told - for example - that I can't drink Bitter anymore, because too much gives you the shits. That kind of thing.

Who is subduing you?
Who is saying that you can't drink bitter?
If bitter gives you the shits I would suggest that you don't drink it or try a different supplier.
What has bitter got to do with the English Flag?
Are you a troll or just a cock?

I am not pro EU but when I hear crap like this it just distances me from any sensible arguments to leave the Europe.

I'd prefer - for all nations not just us - that a sense if national identity is preserved.

As far as I can tell, our National Identity is just a blend of racism, small islander-ism, and hatred of anything different (mainly foreigners). Not a lot to be proud of.

winston_dog - Member

Are you a troll or just a cock?

I am not pro EU but when I hear crap like this it just distances me from any sensible arguments to leave the Europe.

Its was a trite example winston, but you rather I was some type of arsehole that appeared in a thread seemingly to insult someone, and that would somehow strengthen your own resolve to leave europe?

Kryton,

You seem to have two aspects to your views

One that you seem to think that the EU will make everywhere the same. I think that most people would agree that this would be a bad thing but I don't see any evidence that the EU is trying to do that.

Second seems to be that the EU is 'forcing' things on us. Again, being part of the EU may sort of mean that is the case but as with your logs example, it's very rare that there's actually any truth about these things and the vast vast majority are done with good intentions and generally decent results - eg enforcing human rights.

So, I think you've got some valid ideas but don't have a very good grasp of the realities of it which seem to be led by hearsay / biased / innacurate media reports.

footflaps - Member
I'd prefer - for all nations not just us - that a sense if national identity is preserved.
As far as I can tell, our National Identity is just a blend of racism, small islander-ism, and hatred of anything different (mainly foreigners). Not a lot to be proud of.

And therein lies my point. The fear of being percieved that way IMO is leading to a self-subdued national identity.

told - for example - that I can't drink Bitter anymore, because too much gives you the shits.

Interesting. If someone publishes an article saying that too much bitter might give you the shits, that's not an instruction. It's merely some information.

It could be a personality trait that leads you to interpret advice or information as rules and instructions..? I've certainly seen that in lots of pepole. People who are profoundly keen to please and do to the right thing (like my wife) feel pressured by such things.

As far as I can tell, our National Identity is just a blend of racism, small islander-ism, and hatred of anything different (mainly foreigners).

Wait, what? Whose perception is that?

A trite example? Of something you've made up?

I'm confused tbh. If you make stuff up, blame the EU for it and then use that to justify hating the EU then...well....there's not much to say really. EDIT: As above, I think you're confusing innacurate newspaper reports for truth, and studies or research for directives and regulations. E.g. "EU say bitter is bad for you", you're possibly hearing that as "EU ban bitter".

Back on topic: http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-13-1274_en.htm
EU press release on a *draft* "policy package to clean up Europe's air".

By 2030, and compared to business as usual, the clean air policy package is estimated to:

avoid 58 000 premature deaths...

Health benefits alone will save society €40-140 billion in external costs and provide about €3 billion in direct benefits due to higher productivity of the workforce, lower healthcare costs, higher crop yields and less damage to buildings. The proposal will also add the equivalent of around 100 000 additional jobs due to increased productivity and competitiveness because of fewer workdays lost

A-Z of EU Myths....

http://blogs.ec.europa.eu/ECintheUK/euromyths-a-z-index/

clubber - Member
Kryton,

You seem to have two aspects to your views

One that you seem to think that the EU will make everywhere the same. I think that most people would agree that this would be a bad thing but I don't see any evidence that the EU is trying to do that.

Second seems to be that the EU is 'forcing' things on us. Again, being part of the EU may sort of mean that is the case but as with your logs example, it's very rare that there's actually any truth about these things and the vast vast majority are done with good intentions and generally decent results - eg enforcing human right.

So, I think you've got some valid ideas but don't have a very good grasp of the realities of it which seem to be led by hearsay / biased / innacurate media reports.

Thankyou clubber, for posting that. You are right, on all counts, including your last para - I'm particulalry bad at this kind of thing, don't have the time to fully explore the issues and to be fair, should probably avoid these type of threads!

And on that note, I'm out.

And therein lies my point. The fear of being percieved that way IMO is leading to a self-subdued national identity.

This has precisely nothing to do with the EU though.

As far as I can tell, our National Identity is just a blend of racism, small islander-ism, and hatred of anything different (mainly foreigners).

C'mon that's a very narrow minded view of things. Funnily enough though you seem to match your own description, at least in terms of dislike of other people based on stereotypes...

Happy to help Kryton 🙂 I would suggest though that you maybe try to look into the details (or just the factual accuracy) behind things before complaining about them...

Wait, what? Whose perception is that?

If you were a foreigner looking at our popular press I think you'd be hard pushed not to think we come across as a bunch of small islander racists....

Funnily enough though you seem to match your own description, at least in terms of dislike of other people based on stereotypes...

I have a rabid hatred of the Tory party based on their policies, but I'd be impressed if you can find anything racist I've ever written on STW (or anywhere).

Its was a trite example winston, but you rather I was some type of arsehole that appeared in a thread seemingly to insult someone, and that would somehow strengthen your own resolve to leave europe?

Pls excuse my ignorance but I don't understand what you mean.

Can you explain?

Basically your OP suggested that the EU were stopping some old local pub from having open fires. In fact it was the Clean Air Act first passed in 1956 that was the origin of the restriction. The arsehole of a landlord had received complaints from neighbours and was simply looking for publicity. Even he didn't blame the EU.

I suspect that being in the EU has given us more civil liberties, particularly in relation to employment rights (though our government is obviously fighting for our freedom to work harder, for less and to get sacked with less justification).

If you were a foreigner looking at our popular press I think you'd be hard pushed not to think we come across as a bunch of small islander racists....

I think popular press is like that all over the world, isn't it? We certainly don't have a reputation for being racist - a lot of people come here because we're pretty tolerant.

Absolutely. In fact, people I know have commented on the confusing contradiction as they see it between the people they meet here and the way things are reported in the media.

It could be that intelligence, cosmopolitanism, racism and reading tabloids are all linked 🙂

Footflaps

I have a rabid hatred of the Tory party based on their policies, but I'd be impressed if you can find anything racist I've ever written on STW (or anywhere).

I was thinking more of the 'anything different' part. IMO it's the ability to write off large numbers of people as worthless/idiots/etc that causes most problems. IME people faced with other people on an individual basis are generally quite good at getting on and understanding each other. Take away that individuality and it's very easy to depersonalise them and behave less well. See behaviour towards cyclists for example.

molgrips - but that's the thing, they've commented that people can be reading a tabloid one moment and generally agreeing with the views and then very friendly and helpful with foreigners the next.

People are strange innit.

What clubber said ^^ spot on as usual.

I blame the French. But then, I would 😉

We certainly don't have a reputation for being racist - a lot of people come here because we're pretty tolerant.

The only time I have experienced racism is driving a German registered car in the UK. I was quite shocked that during the course of just one week to overhear about a dozen "bloody Germans" type comments, said deliberately loud when people (mostly young males) clocked the car, as well as plenty of dirty looks and sneers.

I have never had such problems driving around the rest of Europe in British and German cars.

On a world scale, britain might be considered tolerant, but compared to the rest of western Europe, I find that common attitudes towards other nationalities are quite poor.

Neatly demonstrating my point about depersonalising things. Germans I know have said they were concerned coming over here but found people very friendly face to face.

I've certainly noticed plenty of racism in other parts of Europe, particularly where Roma are concerned. It depends where you live and visit, I suppose. If you live on a sink council estate but then visit a tourist destination or a big city, you'll see things differently.