[Closed] I'm about to be screwed... the question is how hard? THC content content.

The laws that Alpin has fallen foul of are there to protect you, me, your families, kids, wives etc from whacked-out potheads driving round in a drug-induced daze!

[img][url= https://c8.staticflickr.com/9/8203/29041976775_385d928682.jp g" target="_blank">https://c8.staticflickr.com/9/8203/29041976775_385d928682.jp g"/> [/img][/url][/img]

cyclingweakly - Member

It's quite difficult not to get exasperated and resort pointing out how intellectually ill-equipped you are.

I hope you don't get behind a steering wheel in that frame of mind.

Several cups of tea to calm down ?...... how long do you leave it ?

Junkyard, do you even read the links you post? I'm afraid I can't make head nor tail of most of what you write - it looks like someone has mixed up the keys and stolen some of the punctuation marks off your keyboard...

I'm fully aware that there are roadside tests, and I'm fully aware that they aren't accurate (as highlighted below). I'm also aware that they indicate recent use of the drug, and won't indicate levels of THC in the blood that can accumulate over long periods of use.

Now, just to remind you, this thread is about a man, who uses a lot of cannabis, and is worried that the cumulative effect of his long-term habit might give him a high THC reading.

So the distinction is very important in this context.

You can try and play Mr Smartypants by picking holes in every single thing someone posts (which seems to be how you spend most of your time on STW), but the fact remains that what most people say in a discussion (and this goes for in real life as well as on the internet) should be viewed in the context of the current conversation or discussion.

If the sample of saliva indicates a positive reading, then the driver will usually be arrested and taken to the station for an evidential test. At the moment, the initial roadside test itself is not enough to successfully achieve a conviction; hence the need for a more accurate, evidential test.

I is confused.

Now, just to remind you, this thread is about a man, who uses a lot of cannabis, and is worried that the cumulative effect of his long-term habit might give him a high THC reading.

I thought that a high THC reading in itself did not indicate a reduction in driving capability? In that you can't be "stoned" 24 hrs after smoking a "normal" joint? I haven't smoked cannabis for years but IME there is no way you are suffering any adverse effects 24hrs later. Although it seems that there is a lot of the anti drug lobby seem to be trying to skew evidence to show that you can.

I don't think that the OP did anything "wrong", he wasn't driving while under the influence of drugs, anyone who thinks that you are still "stoned" 24hrs later has obviously never smoked cannabis.

However, there are people on here who won't drive after drinking coffee, so I expect there will be a lot of disagreement about what "impairment" is.

Remember we are discussing driving a car, something that is very easy to do, if it wasn't the vast majority of the population won't be able to do it. It's not flying fast combat jets or flying a SAR helicopter.

Remember we are discussing driving a car, something that is very easy to do,

Accident stats suggest quite the opposite sadly

I thought that a high THC reading in itself did not indicate a reduction in driving capability?

It's not completely understood, which is why the limits are set where they are. You can argue til you're blue in the face that those limits are a bit unfair, but the drug is illegal anyway, so it would be futile.

Whatever the right or wrongs of Alpins crimes from whichever moral standpoint you like to adopt, he hasn't been tricked into this situation. He knowingly smoked cannabis and knowingly drove a vehicle whilst there was a chance he still had more than the legally acceptable level of THC in his blood.

Accident stats suggest quite the opposite sadly

Accident stats suggest that there are millions of car journeys that are performed without incident everyday.

[quote=cyclingweakly ]He .... knowingly drove a vehicle whilst there was a chance he still had more than the legally acceptable level of THC in his blood.As he explains on Page 1, he didn't know about the legality of THC in the blood (not that ignorance of the law is an alibi).

Apologies, you're absolutely right.

Heh. An apology post is probably as good a time as any for me to ban Shibboleth again.

Just got to remember to say that I suffered some sort of trauma

Does this thread count? Or riding a Trek Y-Bike? *rocks back and forth in the corner*

Have already considered changing my name by deed poll and getting a new number plate for the van.

So you're going to promptly escaped from a maximum-security stockade to the German underground? You've got the van already. Is it back? Does it have a stripe?

I assume you mean black, and yes it is... 8)

Don't know about the German underground, was thinking more of moving out of Munich and into the hills...

Shibboleth again.

Interesting, I was thinking exactly along those lines yesterday.

There's few people who manage to show that level of contempt and have such a misguided sense of their own superiority.

What I wanna know is why all that vitriol is still up there for all to read when not more than a month ago my (wrongly perceived) spat with Junkyard, not more than two short posts in length, was removed.

I think my claims of double standards and boys club/in crowd protection are pretty clear when you stand the two together.

What say ye, those who censor - time for a little balance or what...

There's few people who manage to show that level of contempt and have such a misguided sense of their own superiority.

Moreover, ironically, Shibboleth has a shibboleth. Which I'm not divulging as it'll empower him to stop it, but I recognised his handwriting.

What I wanna know is why all that vitriol is still up there for all to read when not more than a month ago my (wrongly perceived) spat with Junkyard, not more than two short posts in length, was removed.

I think my claims of double standards and boys club/in crowd protection are pretty clear when you stand the two together.

What say ye, those who censor - time for a little balance or what...

I've no idea what you're referring to, but moderation is a team so different people have different approaches and we don't always agree. It's not "double standards" so much as different people.

FWIW, I'm very vocally against censorship and "thought police" moderation. If you're being a nob though, you'll get kicked to the kerb.

Interesting, I was thinking exactly along those lines yesterday.

It'd be hugely appreciated if you'd share such thoughts.

[img] [/img]

I'm always a nob but aren't we all.

But seriously, it seems I can't have a laugh or rib JY without him whining or someone whipping away my posts, not sure which TBH. It gets tedious when you witness someone else do exactly the same thing not more than an hour later and there's smiles all round.

Weird and unnecessary, as I'm sure you'll agree.

Edit : Anyway, not a big deal, just pisses me off, especially when you read the insults over the last few pages.

What I wanna know is why all that vitriol is still up there for all to read when not more than a month ago my (wrongly perceived) spat with Junkyard, not more than two short posts in length, was removed.

I am fairly confident cougar will confirm that my ban hammer record will comfortably indicate there are no favours on here.

In general, though i wont ever agree with every decision, I think they are pretty fair on here considering what a big bunch of ****s we collectively are

EDIT: They were not joke or digs they were just personal attacks to claim otherwise is to be disingenuous. You know this as you know when the other posts were deleted as the mods explained to you why.

I know as you are correct that i reported them. Clearly I am not a moderator but , for once, I was biting my tongue.

FWIW doing it this way is a good way of having a dig and not incurring any wrath so well done for doing it this way and I am still sorry for whatever it was i did I shall stop offering the olive branch though i am grateful you have latterly chosen to ignore it rather than take it from my hand and then roundly thrash me with it

I'm not gonna respond other than to explain that I'm not gonna respond.

There's little point as it'll be removed.

You could accept the apology and move on ?

FFS I told you I had the last time you claimed I was holding a grudge but obviously you don't believe that. Or rather your guardian angel doesn't believe it.

Pigface made exactly the same comment regarding you enjoying arguing or always wading in when one is taking place and in response you posted a smiley. I do the same and it's censored.

And really, this time - that's all you're getting from me.

teasel - Member

What I wanna know is why all that vitriol is still up there for all to read when not more than a month ago my (wrongly perceived) spat with Junkyard, not more than two short posts in length, was removed.

Cyclingweakly's posts are pretty hilarious tbh and got some quality responses, be a shame to lose them

🙂

Agreed and to that end I'm glad they're still there for all to see and hopefully learn how not to behave on here or anywhere else.

FFS I told you I had the last time you claimed I was holding a grudge but obviously you don't believe that.

Yes i argue on here, yes i am often rude and abrasive, I often get it back, and i often deserve it but there is still a line i and you cannot cross when doing that without censure.
You know you crossed and it you know you had crossed it before and been warned as do I. I was warned to not get involved FWIW and just report so I do.

Deal with it as you see fit - which seems to be complain about it whilst insisting you dont care.
One last time i dont even know what started it i dont care i dont dislike you and i think we all know what you think of me still sorry still wish we could move on as I really dont GAS about this or you and its not me who keeps bringing it up.

Please don't post anything more regarding this, you're starting to bullshit and twist the truth to suit your agenda and it's starting to piss me off.

Give up; I'm over it. You should try and achieve that, too.

Could you both get a room?

I'd rather a cage or a ring but a room will do...

😉

This thread is so STW.

Cyclingweakly's posts are pretty hilarious tbh and got some quality responses, be a shame to lose them

Bit late for that.

ION, <mod>play nicely people</mod>

I meant the fine legacy of posts, not the artist!

So, Alps is still a free man eh? No news?

No internet in German solitary apparently.

Any updates Alpin?

cyclingweakly - Member
This could be a new beginning.....
One would hope so, and I'd wish you the best of look beating your drug problem, but...

Just got to remember to say that I suffered some sort of trauma which lead to me smoking and not because I like being stoned.
...it sounds like you're prepared to mislead the authorities - possibly under oath - in order to minimise the consequences of your actions and probably continue as you have done for most of your adult life.

Maybe - and here's a radical idea - you stop using illegal drugs and allow your judgment to return to a more accurate level naturally?

"The ethical dwarf, posturing on the moral high ground, presents a ludicrous spectacle."

Alpin Alpin Alpin

"Is this thing on?"

Ja.... Hallo!

In the style of Mr Humphries "I'm free"

[url=I'm about to have my head examined and talk about my problems.... (THC ...]my experience of having my head examined [/url]

The possession charge had been dropped. Yay!

Have had two sessions with a psychologist. Despite her prognosis I think I've convinced her that I've not got ADHD, that my family background is a solid one and that despite her preconceptions about drugs that I can function just as well with them as without.

Beer consumption peaked last week what with the end of the Oktoberfest job and since not being around people that smoke I've not had a drag on a fag for five days (and nor do I miss it! Would usually have a smoke at work, but it wouldn't be pure tobacco).

Still waiting for the outcome of the blood test. Nothing I can do till then other than to continue not to smoke weed. The hope is that when the authorities ask me to prove that I am clean (usually over a three month period) I can give them a hair sample. I've already got approx 6weeks of being "clean".

I'm not feeling any better for not smoking. Although I was in the workshop last week and the boys lit one up. I said something along the lines of "you git". He said "I'll open the door" and then motioned for me to leave until he was finished. The git.

I don't feel as though I now have any more energy than I did 2 months ago.

Can't say that my lungs feel any better as I was smoking the odd snout and now have a chesty cough from sitting down at the river last week.

In all it's a ball ache. I don't feel like it has been a wake up call as I was always able to stop as and when I either felt I should or certain people were on holiday at the state's expense.

If I get lucky and my blood levels are below the 4ng limit I'll have a 30 day ban. If that is the case I'll bugger off down to Italy for a month.

If it is over the limit then I'll have to prove I am clean and have taken steps to "sort my life out".

Good steps Alpin.

The feeling better will take time but getting away from any kind of dependancy/addiction is a good thing

As the Wombles sang, "Exercise is good for you; THC is not".

[img] [/img]

The feeling better will take time but getting away from any kind of dependancy/addiction is a good thing

FWIW I was surprised, decades ago, when i stopped as to how little difference it actually made. I did more but that was about it.

Not everyone who takes pot is an addict anymore than everyone who drinks is an alcoholic

Well, the womble above looks to me the product of too much 'special fudge' 😛

Good luck Alps and well done for remembering to update us 😉

giving up weed wasnt too tough for me
I was a daily smoker (no fags only spliffs) for many years, then found out wife was pregnant, it took a few weeks of imbibimg less (also only smoking outside helped once found out about pregnancy)

I think the tobacco addiction was much much tougher to shrug off than the cannabis, also missed meeting my dealer, skinning up, the ritual of it all etc

it was 6 years ago, I kind of miss weed, but with kids I cant really drink much or get high these days, as Im too busy

Im sure its helped my mtbing, I now race a lot more

I must say one of the things I miss is watching scary/ thinky TV/ films, I dont go wooooow man thats freaky/cool/deep etc any more 😀

I must say one of the things I miss is watching scary/ thinky TV/ films, I dont go wooooow man thats freaky/cool/deep etc any more

Acid was always better for that though, 'specially microdots... 😀

Straightheads. They always seem to be the most pathetic specimens among us

Thanks peeps...

Agree, the tobacco thing seems to have more of a grip. Although if no one around me is smoking I don't think of doing so either.

True, that Kimberley, my consumption of TV documentaries has slumped.

The biggest inconvenience of it all is not being able to smoke when I want to, but obviously that is kinda the idea, I guess.

thought i would give an update.....

last week i finally recieved the test results for my THC levels. obvioulsy i wasn't as avid a stoner as i had feared. the result came in at 3ng/ml (the limit being 4ng/ml).

this means that i'll have a 500€ fine (plus some handling fee of ~30€) and a 30 day driving ban.

think i dodged a bullet.

unfortunately i'm not in the clear as yet. it is likely that the DVLA equivalent will come knocking wanting me to complete a MPU course. MPU stands for "Medizinisch-Psychologische Untersuchung", basically Medical-psychological assessment. this includes testing either my hair or piss for 3-6 months and talking to a psychologist about my problems (again!).
whether or not i have to do this will be at the discretion of one of the persons at the town hall. i might get lucky and the person dealing with my case thinks "ach, scheiss drauf... it is his first offence/ he is an ausländer/ it's not enough ng/ml to worry about/ i myself smoke weed/used to be a hippy".... or they are some "Dipfalscheißa" (bavarian for being anal about things) and think "meine Götte... das geht ja gar nicht" and they want to use the system to screw with me.

have a friend who thought everything was settled until the town hall people got in touch and made me do the MPU for over a year.... 😕

the MPU course is likely to cost me between 500-2000€. as far as i understand it i can still drive whilst doing the course.

the other oddity is that i can decide when the 30 day ban should begin. not sure if this is the case in the UK. the GF and i are off for 3.5 weeks over New Year so will hopefully be able to have it begin mid December without too much of an impact on my work.

Incidently, i've not had a smoke-smoke for over three months now, despite occasionally being surrounded by others that have. if i'm honest, it hasn't been that hard to not smoke. (which seems to be a problem with the MPU... they want to see that you have made changes to your situation and/or surroundings, and i haven't.)
i don't feel any better for it. if anything i'd say slightly i feel slightly worse off as i've not got anything to help "balance" me out when feeling stressed or pissed off. i'm not much of a drinker and as such have ended up with a few heavy hangovers when i have had a drink. maybe on those occasions that i have had a few beers i've over compensated for the fact i can't be getting my "buzz" by other means.

now have a slightly awkward period of limbo waiting to hear from the town hall.

Glad's it's getting toward a conclusion Alpin albeit a ****ing expensive one.

I used to smoke a lot, the weed was easy. I just gave it up one day and similarly to you, felt no different. £15 a week better off perhaps.

I do (and did) wonder if that;s because the THC took longer to escape my system so it meant improvement was so gradual I didn't notice it.

[i]the other oddity is that i can decide when the 30 day ban should begin. not sure if this is the case in the UK. the GF and i are off for 3.5 weeks over New Year so will hopefully be able to have it begin mid December without too much of an impact on my work.[/I]

And only applies to Germany, ie you can still drive elsewhere, or has that changed now?

Interesting thread although not particularly dramatic. The system sounds like it's pretty oppressive though..

sorry moly... maybe i would be more entertaining for you if i was going to be probed up my bum because they thought i was hiding drugs up there, but fortunately for me they don't and i'm not.... 😀

yes, b r, it applies to Germany. they cannot revoke my UK license, only issue a German wide ban. fortunately i live about 45 mins from the Austrian border so my GF doesn't have to suffer me as a passenger for too long...

the other oddity is that i can decide when the 30 day ban should begin. not sure if this is the case in the UK.

Same in Switzerland, our head of Sales used to schedule his bans with overseas sales trips, so he wasn't inconvenienced....

Not sure how much flexibility there is in choosing when the 30day ban starts, but I'm certainly aware of people around here who handed their German licence over to the townhall (or wherever) the day before catching their flights for a summer holiday.
In Germany, 3-4 weeks is quite normal for a summer holiday 😉
That was for speeding too many times.
Pretty sure at least one had no issues whatsoever renting car in the Canaries or somewhere during that 30 day ban.

30 day ban has to be done within 3 months of the KVR (town hall type place) getting back to me.

then down to the KVR people/person whether or not i have to do the MPU.

Congrats on the result. The Germans must be working on the premise that THC Metabolites *DO* reduce driving ability. Where do they get their evidence?

Edit: before you sharpen your pitchforks I'm just talking Metabolites..

I seem to remember, a long time ago in a land far far away during a haze of booze and drugs - that I was doing my BMedSci and I read that passive exposure to pot can cause tests to register up to 4ng.

If that's true I'd be going all Jesse Pinkman on them....

[img] [/img]

This is why you deny everything until you know what proof they have on you.... 😀

If you'd registered higher, I'd have suggested to ask for the lab documents - scientists make a lot of good documentation practice mistakes - if you really want to **** with them.

footflaps - Member

the other oddity is that i can decide when the 30 day ban should begin. not sure if this is the case in the UK.

Same in Switzerland, our head of Sales used to schedule his bans with overseas sales trips, so he wasn't inconvenienced....

in Switzerland anything under 3ng/ml they ignore.... much more relaxed and lenient than Germany.

@ enfht... the psycologist said they came down hard because, as we have all experienced, as a stoner you get flash backs which cause you to be stoned long after you have smoked. she said it happens when you sweat... well, i'm a pasty Englishman and can't stand the heat and sweat as soon as i start riding or the sun comes out. never experienced it.

@ Tom.... that is great. you can argue my case in court if you want.... 😉

Im a massive know it all Alpin that spent most of my life continually trying to catch authority figures out, I do sometimes feel that I missed my calling in life by not going into criminal law.

Good luck!

Glad's it's getting toward a conclusion Alpin albeit a **** expensive one.

I used to smoke a lot, the weed was easy. I just gave it up one day and similarly to you, felt no different. £15 a week better off perhaps.

I'm struck by the lack understanding and the, me, me, me, mentality of users and recovering/recovered users in this thread.
It's worth considering how encouraging reduction in use can have benefits for the wider community in that it reduces the amount of antisocial types and behaviour which often accompanies those that provide illegal substances.

i don't feel any better for it. if anything i'd say slightly i feel slightly worse off as i've not got anything to help "balance" me out when feeling stressed or pissed off

So it's a crutch. Balance comes from acting and reacting in accordance with one's experience. To overcome dependency for 'survival', one must learn to act and react without the crutch.

Antisocial behaviours from Cannabis smokers? they are a bit boring but that is all and cannabis is not addictive in any way. Want to stop smoking Just stop. You might be grumpy for a few days

cannabis is not addictive in any way.

Cannabis is/can be habit forming. In their extreme, these habits can describe addiction.

You could claim that of anything, not just consumable drugs.

I'm struck by the lack understanding and the, me, me, me, mentality of users and recovering/recovered users in this thread.
It's worth considering how encouraging reduction in use can have benefits for the wider community in that it reduces the amount of antisocial types and behaviour which often accompanies those that provide illegal substances.

Three_Fish - Member

cannabis is not addictive in any way.

[s]Cannabis[/s] [b]Cycling[/b] is/can be habit forming. In their extreme, these habits can describe addiction.

In case any of want to spout anymore BS, try listening to this.

[url= https://www.acast.com/saywhytodrugs/cannabis ]https://www.acast.com/saywhytodrugs/cannabis
[/url]

Dispells loads of the myths surrounding cannabis and is pretty informative without bogging down in the intricacies of the science.

's good, that. I like that they're starting to account for the difference in type of person that would sample and continue to use cannabis as opposed to those that haven't or sample but don't continue to use when analysing its psychological effects. A definite step forward.

Thanks for the link.

For the people saying 'No sympathy and because you felt fine doesn't mean your were...' It seems like heavy smokers can be 'fine-r' when high or over the limit than less heaver smokers can be.

I would expect the crunch to come when the time limits on proving the OP is clean, has remained clean and the court mandated assessments etc are all done. It's a little like the Stoptober and dry January things that habitual drinkers do to prove they don't have a problem. Good luck with your choices Alpin.

EDIT must work on my typing skills.

After four awesome days in South Tyrol riding I've come home to find aletter from the Pozilei asking for 770€.... ouch.

500€ for the offence, 25€ administration fee, 3,50€ for "costs" plus 240€ for Pozilei expenses....!

Cheeky gits want me to pay for the test that got me into this trouble!

I've got to choose atime within the next four months to begin my 30 day ban. It is unclear whether the ban is solely for Schermany or for überall. I'm supposed to give them my license for the duration.

Can I drive on my paper license if they have my card?

Cheers, Sandwich....

Already a plan to deliberately further break the law, and self pity doesn't count for remorse.
Well done.

Why not live by the law of the land?

Already a plan to deliberately further break the law

it is unclear whether the ban is for Germany or for everywhere... even my state prosecutor friend isn't sure due to the wording of the letter.

i'll accept that i can not drive in Germany. i'll accepot that i can not drive at all if that is the case. if however the ban only refers to German roads then i'll happily drive in Austria & Italy using my paper license.

not planning on breaking the law on this one. i need my license.

Why not live by the law of the land?

alpin - Member

Can I drive on my paper license if they have my card?

Cheers, Sandwich....

Assuming it's a UK license, or German ones are the same as ours your paper bit has been obsolete for a while now, but you don't need to have a license on you to drive, in the UK at least.

Whether other countries require drivers to have their licenses on them I don't know, but I don't think anyone's been asked to show theirs coming off the ferry at Calais.

A driving ban is to stop you driving. Taking your licence away is the most practical way to do it.
Surely it applies everywhere.
In France you need to have your licence and car documentation with you.

AFAIK for speeding offences it's only the issuing countries bans that are EU wide. So as a UK licence holder the Germans can only ban you in Germany. They're are some local exceptions (Den/Swe/Nor and Esp/Port from what I can remember. UK/Eire as well, maybe)

For everything else it's almost always EU wide. Drink, drugs, dangerous driving etc.

Can I drive on my paper license if they have my card?

Suck it up alpin - if you're banned & caught again.....is it really worth that aggravation?

why don't you ask the german police, tbh I'd imagine their reach is only within the german borders.

A person with a British or German license who gets a ban and their license taken off them while on holiday in France can ask for their license back when they leave France. If they do this they have to leave France within three days. Most agreements being reciprocal I suspect you can ask for your British license back if you leave Germany and don't go back.

For Brits and Germans resident in France the only way to get the license back is to apply for a French one which is issued when the ban ends.

Not sure if this helps.

Is it really worth losing your licence longer than the temp ban?
Seriously.
You are so lucky with only a 30 days ban.

Then you want to drive around while banned.
I have to agree with Hora (and that is saying something) unless you're saving the world James Bond style.

You're lucky you didn't kill a cyclist.