[Closed] I'm about to be screwed... the question is how hard? THC content content.

No idea about the numbers I'm afraid but you do have my sympathy fwiw. I'd far rather we outlawed booze (much as I love it) and inlawed* a bit of weed.

*sort of made up word.

Genuine question - why are the limits/penalties set where they are?

Assuming the limits are set to penalise people who are driving while high, then I'd hope you'd be OK, but no experience, and I'm just guessing. Best of luck. No point in worrying as what will it achieve?

I have absolutely no idea of the answer to your question but found it intriguing enough to do a search (such a random question to ask on here!). This seems to suggest that you might well be lucky :

[i]Concentrations of parent drug and metabolite are very dependent on pattern of use as well as dose. THC concentrations typically peak during the act of smoking, while peak 11-OH THC concentrations occur approximately 9-23 minutes after the start of smoking. Concentrations of both analytes decline rapidly and are often < 5 ng/mL at 3 hours.[/i]

http://www.nhtsa.gov/people/injury/research/job185drugs/cannabis.htm

Good luck.

Hard lines alpin - that sounds traumatic and I hope it works out for you. How could they take the pish - were you driving erratically or something?

Do you know if they test for thc direct in your blood? If so then I would tentatively guess you would not be hitting 4ng from smoking some weed yesterday.
If it's a test for thc metabolites (usually an acid derivative that has been oxidised in the body), then it's more complicated, as a weed-monster such as yourself has these compounds on tap from where they reside in your fat tissues. It's controversial to do this, as you could get a positive hit from smoking days or even weeks ago. So it depends what the test is looking for.

Wow.... Was expecting a backlash.

Was an Allgemeineverkehrskontrolle, better known to us as a random stop. no reason to stop us as such. Van is clean and tidy, paper work all correct.

I suppose a limit needs to be set.
The limits are rubbish anyway. High levels of THC do not mean that you are still stoned. Just shows the regularity of usage. There are "per se" THC amounts (i.e. That what is still actively running around your system making you stoned) and active THC levels (ironically not actively making you feel high, but the residue in your fat cells).

The active THC is what they test for but it's not an indication of you being high or not.

@ Ernie, my googling threw up something similar along with a horror story of some guy who had smoked regularly for over 10 years whose THC levels were over 20nanograms.

Whilst I have nothing to help constructively, I add my sympathy & hope everything works out OK. I enjoy the occasional session (used to be far more) but since working offshore with the worry of possible random drug testing it's not worth it although I am up for redundancy so might have to overindulge soon. I fear the hand wringing and naysayers will come out in the morning for you on here though 😉 Good luck fella

Hopefully the fact I cooperated and willingly have them my stash goes in my favour with regards to prosecution for possession.

If my results are over 4ng in stuffed. I'll be looking for a new country to call home. Being a self-employed carpenter means I need my licence/van to get to jobs and lug tools /supplies around.

Bugger.

Interestingly there are lots of articles arguing that THC tests with regards to the ability to drive are useless and not capable of being able to determine whether someone is fit to drive or not.

I think i passed the "close your eyes touch your nose/close your eyes bring your finger tips together/walk along a line one foot in front of the other".

Without trying to come out all "holier than thou" about it, if those are the limits (and you knew them) and you need to drive for your livelihood, why take the risk?

I'll put my hand up to regularly driving a motorcycle whilst over the alcohol limit in my youth. I like to think I'm older and wiser now (one of those is definitely true).

Because it is not easy to regulate your intake.

We all know what one unit of alcohol looks like. It says on the product in most cases. Not the case with weed. And your metabolism plays a massive part in how quickly your body holds onto the THC.

And those limits for THC, cocaine or opium are not common knowledge. I had no idea until the copper told me what was allowed or not.

He even said I can smoke, but best leave it three/four days until getting behind the wheel.

I'm sure that per 1000 more accidents are caused by alcohol than any other drugs. Probably more accidents due to alcohol than all drugs combined.

Wow.... Was expecting a backlash.

Well I don't approve of the use of narcotics, I don't much like alcohol either, but the last thing you need right now is to be lectured to and told that it serves you right. I genuinely wish you good luck.

I fear the hand wringing and naysayers will come out in the morning for you on here though

I hope not - it would be totally pointless and unhelpful, but I suspect that you might be right.

Ernie, my googling threw up something similar along with a horror story of some guy who had smoked regularly for over 10 years whose THC levels were over 20nanograms.

Yes but the link above which appears to be a thorough scientific article suggests otherwise ..... "Concentrations of both analytes decline rapidly and are often < 5 ng/mL at 3 hours". There's no point spending the next 3 weeks worrying about the worst possible scenario if you have evidence that it's not typical.

[quote=alpin ]And those limits for THC, cocaine or opium are not common knowledge. I had no idea until the copper told me what was allowed or not. Ah. I think that pretty much answers my question (Yes, I know that ignorance of the law is not an alibi....)

Driving whilst stoned is not something I have any sympathy with. Driving and being a user of cannabis is not any different to being a driver who drinks but hasn't drunk IMO - so I'm not sure why anyone needs to get holier than thou about it.

The why isn't cannabis legal thing is complex and I must admit I'm on the side of legalisation despite never being a consumer. Legally regulated cannabis would be so much easier to a manage in your situation as the content could be monitored and controlled - leaving you less concerned in your current situation.

Best of luck.

J

No sympathy here. You should be dressed as a goat and put in a field full of llamas! 😈

I may have missed it, but I can't see how long before you were tested you last smoked? That's the key isn't it?

Silly thing to do if you knew the limits, it's the same as driving the next day after drinking alcohol. Good luck but I'm sorry you took the chance so now facing the consequences.

relax and have a joint to calm yourself.

Haha....Nice one jekkyl....

Think it was about 20 hours between having a smoke and driving. Had also slept most of yesterday... (Stayed up till 4am watching the Olympics.)

Certainly wasn't stoned or high.

@ Drac... No one i know knew the limits. As said above, the info isn't common knowledge. even the copper said that he used to smoke and knows that driving the day after drinking four beers is much riskier than driving the day after you have had a smoke.

An ex of mine was convinced that THC is stored in your body fat and would affect you if you lost weight. Over the past 18 months I have lost about 1.5 stone and reduced my body fat, didn't get stoned though for which I feel hard done by 😆

Hope it works out Alpin, didn't realise they were so draconian in Germany.

[i]If my results are over 4ng in stuffed. I'll be looking for a new country to call home. Being a self-employed carpenter means I need my licence/van to get to jobs and lug tools /supplies around. [/i]

Why, just employ someone to drive and work on your jobs with you - obviously you'll need to look for more work than at the mo to cover the costs.

And when up in front of the beak while pleading guilty tell them what you've done - may get off for less penalty.

Why were you stopped and had to give a urine sample? Is that normal in Germany?

Consult a lawyer. Do not try to represent yourself when dealing with police or prosecutors. Do not consult the internet for advice on important things.

Sorry to say this, but if you are banned from driving in one country thats you banned everywhere, they take your licence from you. I think. Worth checking into that one.

[quote=alpin ]Certainly wasn't stoned or high. But then most folk don't know when/how much they've been affected by alcohol either. If they did, fewer would drink and drive.

People claim the same with alcohol "Oh I didn't think I'd be over the limit the next day". What the copper said and the limits and risks of another drug is irrelevant.

Like I say good luck but the law was broken.

Best of luck, as said above get some legal advice.

When I was 20 I don't think I ever drove and wasn't stoned.

Certainly wasn't stoned or high

So you think, obviously you are long term user and your body has got more used to the effects so just because you felt "fine" doesn't mean you were. The effects of the drug could still possibly slow your reaction time. As has been said ignorance is no defence of the law, is cannabis legal in Germany?

I have very little sympathy for the I felt fine defence having seen aftermath of rtc's of drugged and drunk drivers.

You may well lose your licence at least someone didn't lose a life.

Maybe that's the difference bruneep, we've dealt with the aftermath.

Hope it works out Alpin, didn't realise they were so draconian in [s]Germany[/s] Bavaria

Thanks, and ftfy....

Bavaria isn't so forward thinking/liberal as other German states.

@ hels... Polizei say that if I were German/had a German licence i would be banned from driving for a year and would have to do a course, MPU- medical. psychological test. Basically go along at random intervals for up to 18months to give samples proving you are clean (Including alcohol). Since I'm not German they would give my licence to the DVLA and let them d decide what to do with it,but I would simply be banned from driving for life. If the DVLA habe new back my licence i would be free to drive in any other country.

@ nobeer..... Same here. Used to pre-roll one for the drive to work. Used to be able to roll one whilst driving. Not something to be proud of, I know.

As said, I've not driven (intentionally, at least) whilst stoned in years.

Feel sorry for you but you knew the rules.

I would just see a solicitor for advice Asap to put your mind at ease and prepare/plan should you need to.

not screwed you broke the law, drink - drugs no difference. Roads are dangerous enough without impaired drivers

Regardless of what you say about feeling fine, there must be an effect from long term regular pot smoking. you must have knackered reaction times? If the rules catch people driving at less than their best (whether hungover, tired, stoned whatever) then that's a good thing. Sorry.

Regardless of what you say about feeling fine, there must be an effect from long term regular [s]pot smoking[/s] alcohol use.

I'm fortunate enough to have a good friend who is a state prosecutor. Spoke to him yesterday and he said i was right to not kick up a fuss and to give them my stash.

He also has a good acquaintance who deals with this sort of thing from the legal side. I may contact him later.
Legal advice at the moment won't help. First when the results are in will i seek professional advice.

What I'm hoping for is that someone drops in saying that with their experience I'm likely to be safe, i.e. 1-4 nanogram. I can afford to lose my licence for a month.... Eternity, less so.

However have just spoken to a friend who is a regular/heavy user who got stopped in Berlin having had a smoke just 3 hours before. He had to give a blood sample,head a month of worry until the results came back saying the THC content was too low to proceed further with him. Whether that is because they are more lenient in Berlin than Bavaria or because.... I don't know. Whatever, but he got lucky.

My reaction times are good. I'm one the quickest out of our riding group and only one of three guys there that smoke.
Lots of people comment on how relaxing Mr driving is.

I think after years of usage my body has got used to it. Not a defence, i know.

🙄

I rest my case.

Nothing more to add.

I can't help but feel you're getting a very easy ride from the STW 'cool' kids, one would assume that if it had been a drink drive issue you may not have the same.

Regardless of the outcome, you haven't suggested that you'll change anything either...

agreed bruneep

I'm sure that per 1000 more accidents are caused by alcohol than any other drugs

Well that makes it all right then?
A lot of accidents are caused by selfish people who break the law.

For a while I thought I might be the only one who thinks your whole reasoning is completely off base.
As I don't drink alcohol or smoke drugs I have few friends. Consequently, I have no problem telling you. In my opinion you deserve everything coming. Regardless whether you think you're safe to drive or actually are. I don't want you on the roads In Germany or anywhere and thinking you can simply move to another country to continue your lifestyle beggars belief.
Call me whatever you like, but you knew what possession and possible usage could result in.....
Law is law. End of!
Honestly,

Yeah yeah yeah.... I know comparing alcohol and drug related accidents isn't relevant.

I smoke weed. I drive. I don't mix the two... Obviously in the eyes of the law I did, but i don't do so intentionally.

Often leave the van in the workshop if I've had a beer at lunch.

@ crikey... assuming i get lucky I think this may be the wake up call needed. If I don't and I really lose my licence then I see little reason to change.

The question, to me, is what is illegal in Bavaria? Driving under the influence I assume is illegal; you don't think you were, but what are the criteria? From some posts it seems that the legal criteria may not actually relate to fitness to drive. Possession for personal use - you've declared 1.5g but what does the law say? Long term use (which from the posts above your THC level might imply)?

Also worth finding out what DVLA's approach is to offences abroad that may be treated differently in the UK - do they take legal differences into account, and if so, are there any?

Personal use/possession rules vary wildly.

I know someone who got stung for 1000€ for 0.5gr.
Others I know just had their gear taken from them and nothing more was said.
I know of one who despite being stoned whilst driving (and admitting as much to the police) got away scot free despite having to give a blood sample.

Hopefully the fact I was upfront about being a user and offering up my stash without the need for a full-on search plays into my favour.

However, the possession is separate from the "DUI". The Cop reckoned that the amount of weed I gave him was not going to cause me much trouble.

Plenty of people still think driving close to the current English limit of alcohol is fine. The evidence of simulated driving tests and incident reports clearly demonstrates otherwise.

You claim to be ‘fine’ driving with a measurable amount of THC in your bloodstream - more than the proscribed limits of the driving authorities you agreed to comply with when you drove.

What makes your knowledge better than theirs?

This week, I have to ride my motorbike through Bavaria and share the road with you and people with the same attitude. It doesn’t make me feel safe.

Rachel

Hopefully you'll be treated sensibly; I see little point in criminalising people for using a substance that is less harmful than tobacco or alcohol, but I don't approve of the potential for driving under any kind of influence.

The number of times I get that skunk smell while riding from a car with open windows is not fun at all.

@ Rachel... Where abouts? Some nice roads.

Don't worry about me. I'm at work at the Oktoberfest which fortunately is a five minute bike ride from me.

@ crikey... Agreed. Despite smoking I'm not keen on the idea of someone high driving.

What makes your knowledge better than theirs?

He can ride his bike faster than his mates.

I think drug use is much wider than most people appreciate.

From my circle of friends/acquaintances I know more people who take something regularly or occasionally than I do people who are model citizens. Maybe that says more about me than the population as a whole. I think in the UK the percentage of users was higher than it is in Germany in my experience.

Just to point out, psychoactive THC gets metabolised into a non-psychoactive form (THC-COOH) which is what hangs around in the body. Having THC-COOH in your system doesn't necessarily mean you are high or coming down, it just means you have smoked at some point. So not the same as the conventional BAC measure.

As a habitual user, alpin could test positive days after smoking, never mind the next day as in this c

Be interesting to see want the blood test looks for. (Edit: I should pay more attention - is already been said it's active THC).

From my circle of friends/acquaintances I know more people who take something regularly or occasionally than I do people who are model citizens. Maybe that says more about me than the population as a whole.

You're probably associating with like-minded souls. I can probably count on one hand the number people I know who are regular users of illegal substances. (Of course, I could know plenty who do it in secret and would never know.)

Oh no - Rachel's safe space has been breached!

20 hours without a smoke you are not inebriated in any sense of the word and only ignorant bigots would think otherwise.

Driving under the influence of 'legal' prescription drugs are a big problem and currently no road-side tests.

You have nothing to feel guilty about Alpin, good luck.

You have nothing to feel guilty about Alpin

i thought he broke the law and potentially will be banned from driving? 😯

I think drug use is much wider than most people appreciate.

I'm very aware of how wide spread it is.

You're probably associating with like-minded souls.

Yup that's certainly part of it.

Thanks torsionalake and enfht....

Yes, two types of THC floating around....from what I can make out they test for the residue in the fat cells, i.e. Not the stuff causing you to be high.

My head is currently a massive ****ed up space. Off to a wedding now. Was planning on having a smoke or two to get me through the several hour long Catholic blah blah blah,but that ain't happening now.
Lost all my appetite, too.

sounds like your not in control. The weed has control of you if you need several to get you through.

Thought about getting some help? Or was the forum post part of that?

Interesting in one post you said that there's no way for the punter to know how strong the weed is. This being true why risk it and drive?

It's akin to having a drink but no idea of the alcohol content.

It may have metabolised fully by the time the test was done or you may read way over. You felt fine though, I bet hardened drinkers feel the same after 4 pints still wouldn't want them driving.

There's a limit why risk it?

I'll be honest I hope they throw the book at you. You deserve everything you get. Don't bother responding i don't plan on wasting anymore of my precious time on this thread

At every wedding I've been to its expected and encouraged that you get properly pissed...

I know that here in Eire the courts and RSA cannot apply points to Uk licences for speed offence's.A reciprocle arrangement was never agreed and is less likely to be now post brexit.
As for other things like bans ,not sure .
But i'm keeping my Uk licence for the foreseeable.

There does seem to be an element of "it's dope, so it's OK" in the responses here. If you came on here with the same story but over the limit for alcohol instead of dope, you'd be crucified.....smacks of double standards

Hard luck Alpin.
Get legal representation. Hope it works out for you.

smacks of double standards

Trendy middle class double standards of course...

THey should introduce it as a "driving aid" over here; might slow some of the idiots down.

Using a phone whilst driving also doesn't appear to be illegal; I'm sure that has more of an effect on reaction times/concentration levels than a spliff 20 hours ago.

Where I ride n Bristol, there is an area which frequently has cars parked up with people having a smoke.
Strikes me as odd, why drive off somewhere for a smoke? Because you can't do it at home for some reason perhaps? Why drive? Just go for a walk?
I wouldn't drive to a pub if I was planning on having a drink Btw.

I used to ride commute into Edinburgh the number of cars which passed with a heavy smell of dope was worrying a few would turn into the eri hopefully visitors not staff.

I suspect random drug tests at say... the BBC, or any national newspaper... on a Monday morning would be revealing.

crikey - Member

I can't help but feel you're getting a very easy ride from the STW 'cool' kids, one would assume that if it had been a drink drive issue you may not have the same.

Because it [i]isn't[/i] the same, quite simply. Driving after being under the influence of drugs should be treated the same as driving after being under the influence of alcohol.

I think what might be causing confusion is the positive test; but as's been discussed, here it is not really a valuable test for inebriation. It's a little bit like doing a kidney function test on a driver- yes you could well find that they drink too much but it tells you nothing about whether it affected their driving.

I think what might be causing confusion is the positive test; but as's been discussed, here it is not really a valuable test for inebriation. It's a little bit like doing a kidney function test on a driver- yes you could well find that they drink too much but it tells you nothing about whether it affected their driving.

Are we talking about the breath test?

Kidney function tests won't tell you anything about how much people drink...

In my experience people who are habitual users of cannabis regard it as insignificant in terms of its effects, which is exactly what habitual drinkers think.

Driving under the influence of 'legal' prescription drugs are a big problem and currently no road-side tests. You have nothing to feel guilty about Alpin, good luck.

This is plain ignorant.
Anything which could impair your ability to drive, including, using your phone, lack of attention, popping candy or whatever is illegal. If you are deemed to be under the influence or impaired by any "medication" legal or otherwise. The law can be specifically applied to deal with you as if you were pissed, incompetent or both.
He has everything to be and feel guilty about after having clearly stated he quite possibly has THC in his system at a level classified against the law.
No wonder there are so many Muppets whizzing around oblivious to their surroundings.
The very act of smoking dope puts you in a mind frame where you think..."Hey, I'm cool, don't sweat about it man." That comfortably numbed belligerence is what pisses me off.

Drac - Moderator

Are we talking about the breath test?

There hasn't been a breath test as far as I can see?

crikey - Member

Kidney function tests won't tell you anything about how much people drink...

Scuse me, typo, I should have said liver. But I think it's pretty obvious the point I was making; this is a test for consumption, it's not a test for inebriation, it's functionally different from alcohol level blood testing. They've proved he consumed cannabis, which he doesn't dispute; they've not proved that it impaired his driving.

If he was driving under the influence, throw the book at him, fine. But you have no reason to think that, and the tone of most people's response reflects that. It's not the same as advocating driving while stoned.

Mr Suck: dont let your prejudice get in the way of the truth :/

But I think it's pretty obvious the point I was making; this is a test for consumption, it's not a test for inebriation.

I accept that without issue, but the casual use of cannabis as a lifestyle adjunct will expose the user to situations like alpin is in; he has no insight into how obtunded his reactions are because he's probably always a wee bit stoned. Ok if you're a carpenter ( finger tips notwithstanding), but how would you feel about soldiers being the same, or surgeons, or others?

He has everything to be and feel guilty about after having clearly stated he quite possibly has THC in his system at a level classified against the law.

Do people on here actually think that could be any significant impairment to your coordination and reactions the day AFTER smoking a joint? Really?

because he's probably always a wee bit stoned.

Sorry but that's BS.

It's as bad as the drink driving threads where people said they wouldn't drive at all the next day after having 3 or 4 pints the night before.

Do the same people not drive when they have a cold or don't change the radio once they are driving?

Mr Suck: dont let your prejudice get in the way of the truth :/

I don't think he's being prejudiced - I think he quite clearly stated that if you are under the influence of something that impairs your judgement whilst in charge of machinery then you can expect to be punished if caught.

I don't think that's prejudice, rather a quite clear statement of the law.

Now whether alpin was impaired I cannot say, but if the authorities have a limit & he exceeds it...well, actions have consequences. That's really all there is to say on it really.

alpin will just have to suck it up!

My fear is that I smoked 3 doobies yesterday, and at least once everyday (if not more) for the past 2 weeks.

Sorry but that's BS.

Ladies and Gentlemen of the jury, I rest my case.

crikey - Member

he has no insight into how obtunded his reactions are because he's probably always a wee bit stoned.

That's quite an assertion.