[Closed] Illegal use of ebike

Tbh I could maybe understand arguments against them if the limit was anything other than arbitrary, but really that is all the 15.5mph is, someone plucked that number out their arse, which has now been adopted as some kina moral line in the sand. Which is just nonsense.

so what's happening when people (in cars) are being hit by one of these things? Because they are, right? Illegal modifications, travelling at illegal speeds (vs a legal ebike)...... but uninsured?

That's where the pressure is going to come from - police getting called to the scene of accidents, courts seeing cased brought against individuals for damage costs.

I assume that this has started happening already?

I could maybe understand arguments against them if the limit was anything other than arbitrary, but really that is all the 15.5mph is,

All limits are arbitrary to some degree. Usually, they're based on a simple number that is easy to remember. Having a speed limit set to 100 km/h makes more sense than 98.7 km/h. Average people who are paying minimal attention can generally drive a car in most conditions at 100 km/h. If you go much faster than that, the risk starts to increase quite a lot, but door to door times don't reduce by much. If you go much slower than that, a lot of drivers get frustrated and you end up with pressure to increase the limit. 100 km/h is a bit arbitrary, but it works ok. Some places have limits of 110 km/h, which is also arbitrary, others have different arbitrary limits. However, nobody seriously thinks that there should be no limits just because whatever limit you decide on is a bit arbitrary.

For e-bikes, a fit rider can ride faster than 15 mph on the flat, but averagely fit people can't sustain that for long. No averagely fit person can pedal a bike at 30 mph on the flat. Having a cutout limit set somewhere around 15 mph makes sense because e-bikes will be travelling at a similar speed to other riders, regardless of whether it's a bit arbitrary. Ok, maybe it should be 16 mph or 17 mph, but 30 mph is much too fast for an unlicensed rider on a bicycle with shitty brakes and knackered tyres, which is how most bicycles end up after a year or so of neglect.

For e-bikes, a fit rider can ride faster than 15 mph on the flat, but averagely fit people can’t sustain that for long. No averagely fit person can pedal a bike at 30 mph on the flat. Having a cutout limit set somewhere around 15 mph makes sense because e-bikes will be travelling at a similar speed to other riders, regardless of whether it’s a bit arbitrary

Agree, and what I would have thought was the basis for 25kph (a bit rounder than the converted 15.5mph!)
At 15mph an escooter can easily share the same spaces as a bicycle. It may be going faster than some cyclists and slower than others but it is about right.

Just imagine that we had some joined up thinking...

Urban areas have a blanket speed limit of 20mph.

Ebikes and scooters are limited to 20mph.

Result is there is no speed advantage to using a car so more people ride bikes and scooters.

Bikes and scooters are happy on the road because it's much safer, so they aren't on the pavement scaring pedestrians.

It'll never happen.

[quote!]Tbh I could maybe understand arguments against them if the limit was anything other than arbitrary, but really that is all the 15.5mph is, someone plucked that number out their arse, which has now been adopted as some kina moral line in the sand. Which is just nonsense.

Is there a link to this being plucked out if soneones arse? I was curious as to how the figure was arrived at but didn't get much further than it being based on 25kph in Europe.

The blanket speed limit in towns of 20mph has some merits. It ought to be possible to safely share the roads with other vehicles but that would require a reset in driver attitudes.
Just remember bikes were here first.
I would not want to share narrow cycle lanes with faster ebikes.

Would you want to hit a pothole at 15mph on an e scooter
Bad enough on a 700c wheel, the ramp angles on a 200c wheel would probably stop the thing and the rider to be ejected otb
What are the wheels even made of, medium density rubber i guess with some give but not alot.

Most of them are inflated (I think), so need to have some sort of maintenance, I guess when they are moved around and charged, although I have noticed that the latest generation in Stockholm have removeable batteries so that that they can be swapped and the scooter stays in service for longer.

I see the problems being more than just the speed limit... Here, they are legal as, for the most part, people are insured, rather than the mode of transport. You can hire them esaily enough from a large range of approved companies and people do.

The problems start when people ignore the rules around their hiring. That means riding on the footway and not cycle track or road, or taking two people, or just going whichever damned way they want to on a road whilst watching their phone and then abandoning them all over the frikking place. That is the thing that causes the problems and injuries. Here at least, the infrastructure for them exists and is used. Maybe not so much everywhere else.

Another problem is that, whilst the hire scooters can be geofenced for speed and hiring, private ones cannot. Private ones can also be unlocked to make them faster, but are less likely to be abandoned.

Would you want to hit a pothole at 15mph on an e scooter
Bad enough on a 700c wheel, the ramp angles on a 200c wheel would probably stop the thing and the rider to be ejected otb

Yep, seems to be the typical accident.
E-scooter accidents sent hundreds of people to Calgary ERs this summer, despite safety improvements

Although, to be fair, I'd rather have a city full of pissheads on scooters than playing fantasy street racing in shitty old cars.

Most Helsinki e-scooter injuries at night and while drunk; doctors call for weekend night-time ban

Willard - swedes have largely struck me as “rule followers” and able to think “for society”. Are the pavement, abandonment and other misuse issues big problems there or a small minority? Do police enforce? I remember 15 yrs ago going on a Segway tour in Stockholm and being told there were questions about legality, the police would stop and fine everyone every few weeks but the tour company would pay the fines.

Just imagine that we had some joined up thinking…

Urban areas have a blanket speed limit of 20mph.

Ebikes and scooters are limited to 20mph.

Result is there is no speed advantage to using a car so more people ride bikes and scooters.

I doubt you’ll get much advantage on door to door times in a car at 20 v bike/scooter at 15.5 anyway. Gaps, acceleration, parking, pesky cyclists in your way etc… there would be sense in making it 20 to remove the perceived advantage but then a car keeps you dry, let’s you move large items etc so people will find ways to justify their status symbol.

Next you’ll be telling me that you can’t freewheel uphill. I see Deliveroo riders do it all the time.

I’d love to see someone freewheel across the busy uphill junction that leads to the bridge across the A27 🤣 - assuming you manage impossible feat, you’re still at the bottom of another large hill 🤣

Is there a link to this being plucked out if soneones arse?

No, what he meant was: “I’ve modified my ebike to go faster than it should; I’ve justified this to myself and am very unlikely to get stopped. If I have an accident things might get messy, and if someone is seriously hurt I’ll try this as a defence in court!”

@Poly - *mostly rule following. A lot of it is kids (of all ages) just thinking that the rules do not apply to them right now. My experience is tainted by Stockholmers, who are a different breed to normal Swedes though.

Sadly the Polis are busy as hell with other things, so are just not in a position to arrest the ****wits.

Just imagine that we had some joined up thinking…

Urban areas have a blanket speed limit of 20mph.

Ebikes and scooters are limited to 20mph.

Result is there is no speed advantage to using a car so more people ride bikes and scooters.

We pretty much have a blanket 20 mph speed limit in Cambridge (bar ring road). Very rare to ever see a car doing less than 40 in a 20 zone, some do motorway speeds. There is pretty much zero enforcement. I'd much rather they clamped down on 2 tonne metal boxes speeding rather than the odd illegal scooter / ebike.

Very rare to ever see a car doing less than 40 in a 20 zone, some do motorway speeds.

Sorry but I don't believe that for a moment - are you honestly suggesting that almost exclusively people are driving at double the speed limit?

Result is there is no speed advantage to using a car so more people ride bikes and scooters.

It doesn't really work like that. It's much faster to ride through London than it is to drive, still as many cars on the road as ever.

Sorry but I don’t believe that for a moment – are you honestly suggesting that almost exclusively people are driving at double the speed limit?

I used to live near Cambridge. I'd say Footflaps was pretty much spot on. People there (if they are not on one of the million shitty 10 quid bikes) are driving around the place like it's a rally course. Unless it is trying to get in and out of the Science park during rush hour, then it's a soul destroying queue all the way back to Hardwick

Just remember bikes were here first.

Well I can't say I ever knew it, but now I do, I can't find remembering it that helpful in addressing this issue.

I used to live near Cambridge. I’d say Footflaps was pretty much spot on... a soul destroying queue

So they are travelling at double the speed limit in a queue? Good going.

@Poly – *mostly rule following. A lot of it is kids (of all ages) just thinking that the rules do not apply to them right now. My experience is tainted by Stockholmers, who are a different breed to normal Swedes though.

Ah, all capital cities are special like that!

Sadly the Polis are busy as hell with other things, so are just not in a position to arrest the ****.

Well arrest is extreme! But I think even on the spot fines may be challenging if it’s mostly kids. Quite rightly judicial systems treat kids differently, and fining people who have no money of there own is always a problem. Fixed rate fines are administratively simple, but maybe unfair on teenagers if they are sufficiently punitive on a 30 year old.

@johndoh Good quoting, but you missed the full sentence:

Unless it is trying to get in and out of the Science park during rush hour, then it’s a soul destroying queue all the way back to Hardwick

So people can get stuck in queues, but when they are not in queues they go fast. Sorry if my initial post did not explain that well enough.

FWIW, Cambridge is the only place I have had a serious near miss on a bike. Despite it being super-bike friendly, people (taxis and private hire buses in particular) either do not see bikes, or actively try to scare cyclists.

Very rare to ever see a car doing less than 40 in a 20 zone, some do motorway speeds.

Sorry but I don’t believe that for a moment – are you honestly suggesting that almost exclusively people are driving at double the speed limit?

It works pretty well in Bristol. We have plenty of idiots and rule breakers but in general most people drive well below 30 in 20 limits which while still not quite there is much better than when it was a 30 limit and they did a bit below 40.

A blanket 20 limit for cars, scooters and assistance on ebikes sounds pretty good. I ride at around 20 (leg powered) and I'm generally in the flow of traffic. Rarely get anyone whizzing past, don't feel like I'm holding people up.

Sorry but I don’t believe that for a moment – are you honestly suggesting that almost exclusively people are driving at double the speed limit?

Obviously not 100%, they do occasionally slow down for traffic lights / roundabouts (although red light jumping is becoming endemic as well). When they're up to cruising speed on a road then yes, 40 mph seems to be the norm. I ride around at 20 mph and am overtaken like I'm standing still.

FWIW, Cambridge is the only place I have had a serious near miss on a bike. Despite it being super-bike friendly, people (taxis and private hire buses in particular) either do not see bikes, or actively try to scare cyclists.

It's pretty good for cyclists, there are so many that pretty much every driver is aware of them, so even if they hold them in utter comtempt, they generally avoid hitting them.

poly
Free Member
Is there a link to this being plucked out if soneones arse?

No, what he meant was: “I’ve modified my ebike to go faster than it should; I’ve justified this to myself and am very unlikely to get stopped. If I have an accident things might get messy, and if someone is seriously hurt I’ll try this as a defence in court!”

Well no, I've no intention of being in an accident. 😆 I don't ride it like a dick. It's fairly easy to entirely mitigate the risk of collision. Ebikes over 15mph aren't some kinda missile destined for collision. 😆

Gotta live singletrack when the OP describes a totally illegal, inconsiderate and dangerous activity and gets shot down for appearing anti-cyclist and an unreasonable driver.

The OP quite rightly, imho, states that the majority of those also stuck in that queue will equate the riders behaviour with "cyclists. The nuance of ebike vs motorbike vs whatever will be totally lost in the red mist! 🤣

Well no, I’ve no intention of being in an accident. 😆 I don’t ride it like a dick. It’s fairly easy to entirely mitigate the risk of collision. Ebikes over 15mph aren’t some kinda missile destined for collision. 😆

150K people get hurt on our roads each year. I'm pretty sure almost all of them had no intention of being in an accident. I don't think you'd even need to be at fault for Her Majesty's finest to want to make a scapegoat out of you if they realise its overclocked and I'm certain any insurer representing the SMIDSY will try to claim he didn't see you because you were going too fast! Still its unlikely to be a problem except that really unlikely things happen all the time.

I bet all the people speeding in cars think *exactly* the same thing.

That's fine I'll take the risk but the cause for most of these accidents is cars and congested roads. Take away the cars and congested roads and we'll have a very different picture. Which is what we should be aiming at.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/escooter-crash-neuron-bird-hospital-1.6151532

That study of Calgary e scooters confirms my prejudices against them. Small wheels and rutted potholed roads are a bad mix.
1 in every 1000 hires resulted in a trip to hospital. For a commuter that's a trip to a+e every couple of years.

It’s fairly easy to entirely mitigate the risk of collision. Ebikes over 15mph aren’t some kinda missile destined for collision.

Assuming you have good quality disk brakes, how quickly do you think you can brake and come to a stop on a bike at 25mph without going over the bars?
It's a much different proposition than doing an emergency stop in a car at 25mph.

Injuries also heavily reported over here: https://www.svt.se/nyheter/sjukhus-varnar-for-svara-olyckor-med-elsparkcyklar

(in swedish, sorry)

1 in every 1000 hires resulted in a trip to hospital. For a commuter that’s a trip to a+e every couple of years.

Only if there's a linear relationship between an individual's miles travelled and their injuries. I suspect far more injuries occur for first-time riders. Those who have learnt to control the thing, balance well and have decent common sense and a semblance of roadcraft probably crash a lot less frequently as they rack up the miles.

But, statistical pedantry aside, it's a fairly high-risk form of transport by the looks of things.

mattyfez
Free Member
It’s fairly easy to entirely mitigate the risk of collision. Ebikes over 15mph aren’t some kinda missile destined for collision.

Assuming you have good quality disk brakes, how quickly do you think you can brake and come to a stop on a bike at 25mph without going over the bars?
It’s a much different proposition than doing an emergency stop in a car at 25mph.

Pretty fast, but i prefer to anticipate my surroundings rather than use emergency stop techniques though. 😆

I agree injuries vary according to skill level. But all things equal hit an unexpected pothole at 15mphbon a bike with 27 inch wheels and you probably stay onboard. With 10 inch wheels probably an off.

Why favour scooters over bikes for inner city rentals?

Assuming you have good quality disk brakes, how quickly do you think you can brake and come to a stop on a bike at 25mph without going over the bars?
It’s a much different proposition than doing an emergency stop in a car at 25mph.

Now that depends - am I on my MTB with a dropper, the ability and knowledge to drop my heels, put my weight back to balance it over both wheels and modulate the brakes to the limit of traction, honed after many years of riding bikes for fun off road?

Or am I sat bolt upright on a town-style bike with swept back bars, with the mindset that merely squeezing my hands (all four fingers are around the brakes) much like I push the brake pedal in my car, will result in me stopping, and not sliding forward off the saddle as I havent braced against the forces with eithre my arms or ankles, trying to put my foot down and collapsing in a heap?

Or am I an idiot who thinks a back brake skid is the fastest way to stop, a beleif I held since childhood when my equally idiotic father disconnected my front brake to stop me crashing?

How many of each category are there?

It’s a much different proposition than doing an emergency stop in a car at 25mph

Yes, the weight of a car means it stops a hell of a lot slower than a bicycle.

Yes, the weight of a car means it stops a hell of a lot slower than a bicycle.

Perhaps your bike does. My commute bike* definitely can't stop as quickly as a full-on emergency stop by a car (or even a large cement truck, as I discovered fairly recently). Assume you can out-brake cars at your peril...

(* Gravel bike with well-setup hydro disks. My MTB would stop quicker I'm guessing, but even so I doubt it'd stop in less distance than a car from the same speed)

My commute bike* definitely can’t stop as quickly as a full-on emergency stop by a car

That'll more likely be your slow reactions 😆

Yes, the weight of a car means it stops a hell of a lot slower than a bicycle.

It's not as simple as that, a car has a lot more rubber on the ground.

Yes, the weight of a car means it stops a hell of a lot slower than a bicycle.

With ABS on a dry road, even a fairly ordinary car will brake at close to 1G if the driver just stands on the stop pedal. An emergency stop on an MTB at that level of braking would put you over the bars on an MTB if you had your saddle up high. In an emergency stop, a car with ABS will win.

If you have your saddle low and aren't panic braking, it would be a different matter, it would probably come down to whoever had the grippiest tyres, plus an MTB rider could slide the rear wheel slightly sideways to help scrub speed.

Weight doesn't come into it. Car brakes are designed for panic stops and are powerful enough to lock up all four wheels on a dry road if ABS is deactivated. With ABS activated, it's purely a matter of how much grip you get out of the tyres.

Superficial
Free Member

Perhaps your bike does. My commute bike* definitely can’t stop as quickly as a full-on emergency stop by a car (or even a large cement truck, as I discovered fairly recently). Assume you can out-brake cars at your peril…

sounds like you need better brakes, or just need to learn to dig your heals and get the arse behind the saddle more. 😆

Weight doesn’t come into it.

Well, it does - more weight = more inertia, but it's far from the only thing.

Weight doesn’t come into it.

Well, it does – more weight = more inertia

If your brakes are powerful enough to lock your wheels on dry tarmac, weight isn't the limitation. Of course, if you put MTB brakes on a car, they would melt, but even low-end cars have pretty decent brakes these days so they aren't going to melt from a single emergency stop. The weight of the car isn't a consideration because they have brakes, tyres, and suspension designed to handle their weight. It really comes down to tyre grip and getting the centre of gravity low.

That’ll more likely be your slow reactions 😆

sounds like you need better brakes, or just need to learn to dig your heals and get the arse behind the saddle more. 😆

My technique is fine, but thanks for the patronising "tips" 🙄

I'm sure a cyclist can out-brake most cars most of the time. But in a full emergency stop scenario, no amount of 'dropping your heels' (lol) is going to match the contact patch of 4x225 section car tyres. The only actual data I can find suggests that bicycles can decelerate at 0.35G or perhaps up to 0.65G with excellent technique. Whereas the Highway code stopping distances are (apparently) based on a deceleration of 0.6G, presumably based on the stopping distance of some 1970s average car. We all know cars these days will beat those figures. Apparently current sporty road cars will easily pull > 1G deceleration.

The bike stats are from a 2004 article which is obviously potentially a bit outdated. My MTB has big discs and a long wheelbase and a low centre of mass (bike + rider). But my commuter bike doesn't really have those improvements so I'd guess the 2004 stats are pretty accurate.

However, skip to 3:35 to see a comparison of a sporty motorbike vs sporty car braking.

Bear in mind most motorbikes have bigger brakes and bigger tyres than any pushbike (but also more mass of course).

I think most people in cars very rarely need to use their maximum braking force. Perhaps they use 30% of the force available on a day-to-day 0-30mph commute (Probably more on motorways). During my bike commute I'd guess I regularly use 50% or more of my available braking power and on my MTB on a loose surface I reckon I'll use close to 100% of the available braking force every ride. What I mean by this is that most car drivers never get close to an emergency stop, whereas when we ride we might get nearer those 'full brake' scenarios. Perhaps this is why people think they are capable of stopping a bike quicker than the cars around them.

I'd be interested if anyone can find any current data on the braking performance of bikes, but until then:

Assume you can out-brake cars at your peril…

As I said:

Assume you can out-brake cars at your peril…

As I said: I don't really make a habit of emergency braking. There are better road safety considerations.

(Probably more on motorways)

If you need to brake harder on a motorway than on a 30mph road (apart from in an emergency situation obviously) then you aren't concentrating enough.

I always get the feeling that most people riding around on these dubious ebikes/electric motorbikes probably put as much involvement into the setup and maintenance of them that they would to whatever amount of money the flung at a mountain bike on a whim, which is usually not a lot.

I'm not 100% confident in my spannering skills pootling around on my bike, I don't fancy being on a road doing 35 on something that might not be well maintained, not exactly have top notch parts on it that could handle 35 miles an hour or a distinct lack of skills if anything did go sideways (literally)

thisisnotaspoon
Full Member
Going to fast no one could overtake him?

He must have been really fat ,

Nope. Have you ridden one?

No I haven't, not that I can see what difference that makes.
And with that notion in mind i did for a very long time ride a 26" wheel, so i know what it felt like to hit any obstacle over a certain height, kerbstones for example.
I now ride a 29er, and those same obstacles i breeze over. Both bikes carry a 150mm fork) If we reduce that 26" right down, and i do mean RIGHT DOWN to the size of an Escooter, it is logical to surmise that the same obstacle will stop that smaller wheel. Try to think momentum of the rider and what happens there if the front end stops or is knocked to the point it slows considerably.

"Have you ridden one"
Hardly a sound assumption of an argument for being able to work out the obvious.

A crash at 30 mph has four times the energy of one at 15 mph. Your brakes, tyres, etc. need to be much beefier to deal with sustained riding at those higher speeds.

And yet, roadies maintain speeds around 30-40mph, on skinny tyres and with rim brakes, and can and do reach higher speeds on downhills. I have overtaken a Fiesta at the bottom of my road at 35mph on my old Cannondale SuperVee 3000, with rim brakes, and hit 42mph on a couple of decent downhills.
Which makes that statement rather suspect, in my opinion.
Most modern bikes, including road bikes, have disc brakes, more than adequate for sustained speeds of 30-40mph.

And yet, roadies maintain speeds around 30-40mph, on skinny tyres and with rim brakes, and can and do reach higher speeds on downhills.

Very few people can manage that on a bicycle, especially an MTB on the flat. People sustaining those speeds on a bike are doing everything they can to not use brakes, that's completely different to how motorbikes are ridden.

If you do a quick search, you'll find a bunch of threads on here about upgrading brake power for long descents on MTBs. Stock hydro disk brakes are marginal for heavier riders on long descents, they tend to overheat and suffer from fade under sustained braking. Bike stuff is built to be as light as possible, so the brakes are just powerful enough to handle what average riders throw at them, they really aren't up to being used on motorbikes.

A not-skinny person riding an MTB converted to an electric motorbike with a 1500 W motor would easily overheat stock MTB brakes if they tried to ride it like a motorbike. That's assuming the brakes were properly maintained in the first place, which they are unlikely to be in most of the backyard conversions.

thols2
Free Member
Stock hydro disk brakes are marginal for heavier riders on long descents, they tend to overheat and suffer from fade under sustained braking.

They don't at all, I've got a 2012 slx front and an old deore on the back, at they stop me on a sixpence. and I'm a fat bastard. 😆

thols2
Free Member
That’s assuming the brakes were properly maintained in the first place, which they are unlikely to be in most of the backyard conversions.

See tbh, most people that have the ability to convert a bike, probably know how to maintain a bike more than most. I know I can fix and do fix everything on my bike. Haven't been to a bike shop in donkey's years.

Just because you imagine the lowest common denominator is the standard. Doesn't mean that it is as you think.

I run stock Deores with metallic pads on one bike. They're fine for what I do, but there are plenty of people who overheat their brakes on long descents. Just do a search of the forum and you'll find regular threads on the topic. This article is often cited:
https://enduro-mtb.com/en/rotor-size-myth/

I always prefer resin pads myself. But I don't really need to read about it tbh I've million of experience doing 2/3/400m decents, i trust my brakes completely. And I drag the life out them. i go 203/180 front and back.

It's fairly irrelevant to a discusion on road going bikes though, cause nobody is particularly dragging their brakes for that long on road on a regular basis. So it's not normal practice. Disk brakes are perfectly fine for road going ebikes.

I'd advise stronger wheels and good spokes more than anything else tbh, rear in particular. Or at least check them more regularly than you normally would..

The point is that you use motor vehicles differently. Getting up to speed on a bicycle takes a lot of effort, so you're mostly trying to cruise along and conserve that speed. On the flat, you don't need to brake for most corners on a bicycle.

A 1500 W e-bike has 6 times the power that most moderately fit cyclists can sustain. Maximum speed is mostly governed by aero resistance, which increases by the cube of the speed. The cube root of 6 is about 1.8, so a 1500 W e-bike could sustain speeds of 40 mph or so. If you ride it like a dick and are accelerating hard, then braking hard for turns, you will be putting much more energy through the brakes than on a regular bike. For example, if you brake from 40 mph to 20 mph, you have to dissipate 3 times as much energy as in an emergency stop from 20 mph to zero. This is because the energy increases as the square of the speed, so stopping from 40 mph to zero dissipates 4 times the energy of stopping from 20 to zero. Three quarters of that energy (and three quarters of the stopping distance) comes from the 40 to 20 reduction, only 25% comes from the 20 to zero part.

So, a basic set of Deore hydros might be fine for cruising down a mountain on a bicycle, but a teenager out having fun on a homebuilt e-bike will knacker them pretty quickly and won't want to buy new pads every ride to keep them working properly. That's assuming they start with decent brakes in the first place. They're much more likely to start with a shitty old bike with rim brakes, with the motor driving a sprocket attached to the spokes on the brake rotor side of the back wheel. Smashing into the back of a car that has emergency braked at 40 mph is much, much worse than doing it at 20 mph.

You'll also notice that brake manufacturers recommend heavier duty brakes for e-bikes (i.e. regulated ones, not home-built ones). That's because heavier, faster bikes need to dissipate more energy under braking. Unrestricted e-motorbikes need much beefier brakes than that to give some margin of safety.

https://www.magura.com/en/components/news/2019/magura-estop-e-bike-optimized-technology/

https://www.hopetech.com/products/e-bike/brakes/heavy-duty-23mm-disc/

https://www.sram.com/en/sram/models/db-gde-re-a1

I’d advise stronger wheels and good spokes more than anything else tbh, rear in particular. Or at least check them more regularly than you normally would..

Not necessary if you have plastic wheels, mate.

And what could go wrong riding this down to the pub?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/124883500236

Hi All

Want to stand out from the crowd?
For sale my lockdown project, 1500w Vilomart e-bike, yes 1500w, with a 52c x 20ah battery (wheel bought in April and battery in June 2021 have delivery note to prove, this is a German battery not some cheepo Chinese one) this gives a range of circa 20 miles depending on variables and a speed of 35mph on the flat. No pedal assist fitted so you just use them as foot rests but can be pedaled using the 5 speed deralier which keeps plod happy and a rear disc to stop it.

So the rear end triangle is from a donor bike and the triple trees (head stock bits) are form Swing Stingray the rest was designed and assembled in my workshop (yes its all straight and lines up as it should) Has a bobber seat and style headlight digital display rear rack with tail light built in (which is built as part of the bike not an add on) and a small set of panniers ideal for carrying a chain and bits and bobs and hides the motor. The battery is built into the box with a isolator switch that can be removed when leaving it parked.

Its a great bit of kit and really fun to ride but if you dont like talking to people its not for you as it does draw attention when you park outside the pub. Only selling it because frankly I enjoyed building it and want to build another so the price is the price if it goes great if not will just keep ridding it.

Collection only from Tewkesbury are 3 miles from M5 Junc 9. between 14th and 24th September.
You will need a van Trailer or estate car can remove forkes if needed and will supply some touch up paint in case the topes get scratched doing this.

Who's promoting a 40mph limit? But anyhow fastest Ive been on a bike is approaching 50 on my road bike non powered before I keeked my drawers I miraculously managed to not die. Or crash into the back of a car. You know keeping enough space between me and the car tends to negate the need for your emergency braking fetish.

Btw second bike. Defo geez a shot. 😆 that's class.

Ps yeah I know ebikes get used differently that's what they should be encouraged rather than discouraged. A 25ish or 30 limit is entirely sensible. I'd enforce it by gearing limits rather than anything else though cause that's the thing that will properly regulate their speeds.

Who’s promoting a 40mph limit?

Nobody is. But a user by the name of seosamh77 finds arbitrary limits objectionable.

seosamh77
Full Member
Tbh I could maybe understand arguments against them if the limit was anything other than arbitrary, but really that is all the 15.5mph is, someone plucked that number out their arse, which has now been adopted as some kina moral line in the sand. Which is just nonsense.

A 40 mph limit is just as arbitrary as a 15 mph limit.

A 25ish or 30 limit is entirely sensible.

25 and 30 are just arbitrary numbers. The only way to not have an arbitrary limit is to not have any limit. So, you'll end up with swarms of these bombing downhills at 40 or 50 mph and dead kids littering the landscape.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/114927430980

It’s rear mounted motor specs are: premium csc motor that is a 1500w, 48v. It comfortable rides at 32mph up hills and more on flats and downhill, weight of rider dependent. And it has a Maxxis premium tyre that has been puncture sealed with ‘tyreweld’ to help the prevention of punctures.

I’ve fitted a torque bar to prevent any twisting of the frame that the motor could cause and to add stability to when the power is being applied.

This is a twist throttle power method but I will be suppling the peddle assist unit if you would prefer to have both fitted.

If you want a 40 mph limit then you can legally buy something that fits the bill. It's an electric motorcycle. But you do need a licence, insurance, an mot, and a helmet.

Even a 30mph moped needs those and there's a very good reason for that.

The vast majority of conversions l saw in the shop were properly shonky. Most had v brakes.

The last time I was in a crash on my bike on the road, I was taken out from behind by a motorbike. Not sure what advanced riding skills or anticipation would help with that. You cannot avoid all accidents.

The last time we did the car v's bike braking thing, tempers got very freyed. Eventually a test was done. It wasn't even close, the car (Golf I think) stopped way quicker than the bike.

You know keeping enough space between me and the car tends to negate the need for your emergency braking fetish.

The hubris is through the roof on this one. I've done faster than 15.5mph on a non-e bike as well. Plenty times. One time I had to avoid a family of fuds recreating the Abbey Road cover across a crossing at red, I came off worst. That was despite braking before I hit the previous side of the junction and skidding round them.

“Have you ridden one”
Hardly a sound assumption of an argument for being able to work out the obvious.

It may be obvious to you but then when you ride one you may think differently about what seemed obvious to you. You can guess what it is like to ride one based on reduction of wheel size but then many people ride Bromptons well enough don't they, how are they not falling off all the time?

Be more open minded and try one, they are great.

Last I checked Brompton had far bigger wheels than scooters. Obvious difference is obvious.

The point that was being made was that 700c wheels are safe and smaller wheels are unsafe. A brompton has 16" wheels and narrow tyres, pretty small compared to 700c eh?

Anyway, who cares what someone who hasn't even ridden one thinks about them. Someone who has never ridden a bicycle may think they look unsafe in an obvious way, how is that rider staying upright on those two thin wheels, must be witchcraft I tell you.

how is that rider staying upright on those two thin wheels, must be witchcraft I tell you.

thols2
Free Member
25 and 30 are just arbitrary numbers.

Agreed, but 15.5 is overly cautious. It's the equivalent of having someone walking out front with a red flag.

Anyhow, we'll agree to disagree. We'll only go round in circles more.