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Showed some absolutely sickening footage of a hunt in Dorset with a fox being chased and running for its life before being absolutely ripped apart. No attempt by the hunts"men" to show the fox to her away.
Even worse, 2 other hunts down where the hunt SCUM dig out the fox from under ground to literally just throw it (alive) straight to the hounds next to them to let it be ripped apart.
F***** barbaric scum. I'm as angry as I am upset by what I just watched. I'm not sure how much of the footage is in the link below but be warned either way!
https://www.channel4.com/news/exclusive-footage-shows-how-foxes-are-being-illegally-hunted-by-hounds
I can't stomach this stuff these days.
But you have the correct reaction.
I trust the police will be investigating and prosecuting? ....or will the chief constable be unhappy prosecuting their mates.?
Ffs, you townies just don't understand country life!
Just about to post the same. Same passion for Gaza then? Sorry to be arsey, but lambing's coming up.
If the point of fox hunting was pest control, there are far more effective ways, if the point is brutally killing animals, including pets, it works fine.
Shoot them fair enough if it's a matter of "pest control" but hunting is a social activity and is banned.
Arrest and prosecute.
Just about to post the same. Same passion for Gaza then? Sorry to be arsey, but lambing’s coming up.
Difference was I was taking the piss.
Ffs, you townies just don’t understand country life
On a serious note I've always found genuine country folk - are not really fox hunting types.
More likely a hedge fund manager.
^ this
we have lost poultry to foxes and it's an occupational hazard in the country. That said Reynard round here is mostly mange and not a cute urban version
Its about time this got into the mainstream press more. fox hunting and driven grouse shooting are two huge criminal conspiracies.
There have been more prosecutions recently and also a load of hunts have folded mainly because landowners have got fed up with them and banned them from the land
the lie of "trail hunting" ( not to be confused with drag hunting) has been well and truly exposed
the fox hunting ban was intended to be full of loopholes so that hunts could carry on but Blairs government wanted to make it seem like they had done something. there has been a recent tightening up of the law in Scotland so trail hunting is also now banned effectivly
Shoot the posh ****ers
In life I like to take a positive approach and try constantly to never judge or stereotype. However, anyone that enjoys or is knowingly involved in Fox hunting is an absolute ****.
I've had the 'you don't understand, it's a countryside necessity' etc etc. **** off. I grew up in a small village amongst farming folk, and I live in one now. Without exception, every farmer I know despises fox hunting and the absolute ****s that are involved in it. **** off with your post control nonsense, That's not how livestock owners control pests. it's purely an excuse for you to dress up like a pompous prick and parade around with your privileged mates and inflict barbaric pain for your enjoyment.
I'm genuinely astounded that in 2024 there is still tacit consent from so many sections for this to carry on so openly. Actually, with the background of many of those in power, I'm not at all
Scum. Inexcusable scum
@jonnyboi same here. It's nature, unfortunately. I was mega upset when our hand reared girls were slaughtered by a fox, but animals gonna animal.
fox hunts actually feed and support fox populations to make sure they have plenty to kill.
Sorry all, but I've actually ridden on three "hunts". 50+ years ago mind, but I still vividly remember the occasions; and that's what they were. An excuse to dress up, ride a borrowed hunter through open farmland and woodland in the company of similarly over awed and excited folk. Never a fox in sight; bugger me most of them would've shart themselves if they'd been compelled to break into a proper fox chase gallop. Memories eh?
Proud to say I got fox hunting banned on the local nature reserves for the council i worked for in the mid 90s before the national ban came in place.
We could only do it on the grounds of the damage and disturbance they did to flora and fauna, as well as the public enjoying the reserves. We couldn't use any ethical or moral reasons.
Drives me mad that these people still trot out the same old justifications for it.
fossyFull Member<br />Shoot the posh ****ers<br /><br />
Hunt the posh ****ers
I've known a few folk who have ridden with hunts. They weren't posh folks. One lived in a caravan at the stables to afford to have a horse.
Don't let the caricature fool you. Being cruel to animals in the countryside is not just a posh person's crime. Hare coursing being the obvious example.
First they came for our foxes... Sorry I must stop this trolling. It's not, but it will appear to be. Cos "cheeky" mtb rides never disturb flora or fauna do they? There's honestly plentiful causes to "die on the hill" for. This one isn't up there for me.
Stop ****ing posting then Brian!
It’s barbaric and utterly pathetic behaviour perpetrated by cowards. I don’t think riding a bike is a great comparison to seeing watching a defenceless creature being torn to pieces.
Okey dokey. But you missed the "poor" from your trope. I'll stop now.
I don’t think foxes are poor in any way. They don’t proscribe to any form of monetary system from my, admittedly limited, knowledge of fox society. Therefore they can be neither rich or poor in the financial sense. Seem to be built pretty well, so not made poorly. Also pretty good from a performance perspective.
Nope, all good with my description that isn’t a trope. Just a plain basic fact for anyone who’s not hard of thinking.
Well that was a pretty sickening watch. To a normal human with their head screwed on that is. I struggle to understand the mentality of someone who would want to be involved in that. Or even to dress up and pretend to do it.
Fair play to the sabs for continuing to bring this to the general attention but also the ability to remain peaceful and instead disrupt or gather evidence - not sure I'd be capable of that.
Tradition = rules made by dead people.
Some things are better resigned to history.
It is mostly an upper-class activity. Because you need masses of land.
Our biggest land-owner still allows it on their huge estate and tenant farmers have to suffer.
It's an absolute city toff fest in the middle of our amazing countryside. Once they got totally out of control and were all over the road and the cycle path causing chaos.
Absolute ****s. Probably all Tory ****s too.
There are no good Tories, especially fox hunting Tory ****s.
I once got photographed and captioned in the local paper as "young hunt supporters".
I wasn't, they'd just blocked the whole square at Kirkby Lonsdale.
Should have been properly banned decades ago, there's no good argument for it.
Tradition = rules made by dead people.
Some things are better resigned to history.
The village where I Iive in has a road called "Bullbaiters Lane". Nothing more traditional than torturing a bull before killing it, people used to see it as fun and believed it improved the flavour of the meat. Luckily that tradition has been banned and has died out.
I have always thought it very telling that the more working class types of animal abuse for "fun" have been properly banned (cock fighting, bear baiting, badger baiting, hare coursing) whilst the ones that were mainly for the rich either remain legal ( driven grouse moor shooting) or the laws banning them were deliberately left full of loopholes ( hunting with pack of dogs)
No, its not.
Diverting it into a class issue misses the point that a lot of the dirty work in fox hunting and other forms of hunting with hounds are not posh
No way it would exist - like lots of stuff in life without the top of the pyramid taking control over land.
"A national upper-class pastime."
Just because there are load of serfs running around doing dirty work doesn't make it class driven.
Come to our local hunt and spot the Skoda?
(This is not to exclude other types of blood sports from your point - see our local hoodlums on quads chasing deer for fun. But we're talking about Fox Hunting.)
Silly logic
My experience living among them, including work colleagues and a cousin.
As someone who has been involved in the horse world pretty much all my life I think the whole drag hunting farce should be banned as it was clearly a cover to allow traditional hunting to carry on.
It's certainly not the big thing it used to be though, and many hunts have closed down. Pretty much all serious riders won't hunt now as it's too dangerous for their horses. And the horses are too expensive to risk injury to. Training and development has come one a long way from taking them for a blast around the fields.
It will die out naturally eventually as soon as the 'pony-patter'* client base dries up.
There are also many other ways riders can enjoy the countryside now too. Endurance riding is becoming bigger and bigger.
(*horse world slang for those who have their horses kept for them and turn up once a fortnight to ride them).
(I did remove 'silly logic' @morecashthandash - apologies - wasn't called for.)
We watched my mates tenant farm totally ruined by the local hunt once.
Muffin man - point of order. Drag hunting uses aniseed for the dogs to follow - dogs are trained to follow that scent. No foxes get hurt.<br /><br />Trail hunting in theory uses fox urine to lay the scent and in fact is just a cover for killing foxes
Trail hunting in theory uses fox urine to lay the scent and in fact is just a cover for killing foxes
How so? Genuine question.
Do they then pick up live fix scent and off they go,? Or are they lead towards live foxes?
(I did remove ‘silly logic’ @morecashthandash – apologies – wasn’t called for.)
We watched my mates tenant farm totally ruined by the local hunt once.
No worries. There's scum on both sides. Hunting animals with hounds is cruel and pointless, but I've also seen sabs threaten and intimidate teenage girls following the hunt, and animal rights people threaten to kill a mates daughter because he was involved in drug testing at labs that still used animals.
Both sides attract a range of extremes
Round our way it isnt a class led thing. whilst we dont participate or support our local hunt, we do know a lot of people who do and, in our local community there is a wide mix of people involved.
It is also dying out slowly, fewer people each year, to the point that it is only really the boxing day meet that is regularly supported. No hounds either, the local kennels closed years ago.
As people have said above, the local farmers are not supportive and will control foxes via more 'humane' (or maybe 'less inhumane') means, especially with lambing just around the corner.
Do they then pick up live fix scent and off they go,? Or are they lead towards live foxes?
Mix of the two same as it always has been. They take the dogs to locations where foxes are likely to laying up for the day and let it go from there.
Round our way it isnt a class led thing
I think the main impact of the class thing, as others have mentioned, is that whilst there can be a mix of people participating the fact that the upper class traditionally do it is what allowed it to survive whereas those primarily working class ones got properly banned.
i think the impact is of the 'upper class' landowner supporting hunting, rather than participating that is allowing it to survive.
it only takes one landowner to allow the hunt on their land to keep a hunt going no matter who is participating.
The best thing you can do if you hate this sort of thing is to simply find your local sab (disrupt) and monitor (observe and record) groups and donate a bit of cash to them. A lot use the ko-fi site for this.
These folk do a fantastic job of preventing the hunt from killing as much as they would like simply by turning up with cameras on and following them relentlessly. Clashes do occur and some of the hunt supports are big strapping farm hands capable of giving someone a big slap, but the presence of cameras and the fact that monitor groups now actively try to work with the police means the hunts often go home empty handed and miserable.
Hate the hunt? Support the sabs!
How so? Genuine question.
Do they then pick up live fix scent and off they go,? Or are they lead towards live foxes?
Usually they do not even bother laying a fox urine trail. Its just a cover for fox hunting. Claiming they are using fox urine to lay trails allows them to continue to train the dogs to follow a foxes scent rather than aniseed so they can continue to hunt foxes
Drag hunting the hounds are trained to follow anniseed so will not pick up a fox scent trail
The local hunt to me were caught on film putting foxes in man made dens to throw to dogs a year or so ago. The hunt were fined 5k, no convictions etc. the law cirtainly needs to change and be updated with more severe consequences.
As a result of the above, the landowner who a significant amount of bad press, banned all foxhunting on his land and, so far, has followed through with that. The hunt were uncontactable for a statement at the time & pretty much threw the landowner under a bus, which I'm sure was part of his reason for banning the hunt. The incident not only damaged the landowners business, but also the the local pub and my shop - we all had a massive down turn In trade.
Unfortunately last week there was a hunt 2miles south of us, just on someone else's land.
Around my way we get the Zetland Hunt.
They park on the grass verges and have spotters scanning the fields.
Some of the residents go out and tell them in pretty blunt language that they are not welcome here.
Nearby is a wetlands area managed by the environment agency. The hunt have been told not to enter the area but they continue anyway. I reported the hunt in the wetlands,on public footpaths,to the agency but the agency said the hunt would not reply to them.
At a nearby castle there is horse racing and the hunt set up a propaganda day with an upper class voice on the tannoy saying that they are nice people really and bring your children to come and see the dogs. We found the atmosphere from the people there a bit unsettling and left quickly.
I'm into field archery. But over the years even shooting at targets of animals both paper/3d's has been a turn off.
Suddenly relised its a bit wierd...odd even.
Only shoot at circles and golf tees, now. Just as much fun.
The so called hunters in the above video.... will they ever be prosecuted, doubt it. 🙁 Any one into foxing or any (pleasure hunting) is a bit fundamently wierd or even phychopathic IMO
I’m into field archery. But over the years even shooting at targets of animals both paper/3d’s has been a turn off.
British Scouts are not allowed to shoot - archery or guns - at targets looking like animals. Not even the dinosaur targets at the World Scout Jamboree in America in 2019.
MCJnr was told that if anyone asked, they were Canadian....
Take a look at most hunt vids and the posh lot mainly just like riding their horses while the people digging out the fox holes and generally being vile are much further down the social chain.
I'm pretty sure the people shown in the 2 incidents of digging out the fixes on CH4 yesterday were in full riding gear as they dug them out but to be honest, I'm not going to look again.
You can report animal crime to The League Against Cruel Sports and if you're minded to, give them a donation. There's lots of useful information on the site and reference to some horrendous activities in the name of "sport".
I’m pretty sure the people shown in the 2 incidents of digging out the fixes on CH4 yesterday were in full riding gear as they dug them out but to be honest, I’m not going to look again.
Thanks for pointing out a small selection of incidents, that you don't fully remember, might contradict my none-absolute statement.
It is mostly an upper-class activity. Because you need masses of land.
Maybe, but the proles have their own entertainment. Round here they show up with quad bikes and set dogs on deer, and livestream the chase on phones. Other proles in nearby towns bet on how long it takes for the dogs to catch a deer. Charming.
Hell, it's not worth it.
Maybe, but the proles have their own entertainment. Round here they show up with quad bikes and set dogs on deer, and livestream the chase on phones. Other proles in nearby towns bet on how long it takes for the dogs to catch a deer
Yeah we've had that.
They went on to a school field and did it here too.
Amazing.
fox hunting and driven grouse shooting are two huge criminal conspiracies.
I think I understand the latter to be using dogs to drive grouse out of the undergrowth so the can be shot. Is your opposition to both the above just based on the shooting aspect, or is there some cruelty involved in the latter like there is in letting dogs tear foxes apart?
The latter is often done to excess. Huge amount of birds driven into the air then blasted to shit, if you drive around the roads of North Yorkshire during shooting seasons, especially the B roads, you see plenty on the roads.
It's for money, very few end up in an oven or a pot.
I think I understand the latter to be using dogs to drive grouse out of the undergrowth so the can be shot.
No its using humans to drive the grouse out of the undergrowth to be shot. NOt particularly or deliberately cruel to the grouse. The criminal activity comes in other areas - like the killing of raptors, like the use of unchecked snares, like the use of larsen traps, like the slaughter of endangered mountain hares, like the overuse of muirburn
Driven grouse moors are a huge criminal conspiracy as they regularly and routinely break the law like the fox hunts do - but different laws
Both fox hunting and driven grouse moor shooting are criminal conspiracies but not the same one - 2 separate criminal conspiracies
Was it 40 million pheasants being released at one time, for shooting season? This means they eat everything that all the other birds would eat
Was in the woods last weekend, maybe 20 cars of fat old guys with shotguns and support trucks. Arent they supposed to put signs up when they do this (on forestry land)?
I dont believe police should be allowed to join hunts, since theyre illegal
A year or two ago one hunt's dog pack had to be put down because they had Bovine TB
I saw a video last month of a sab posting on FB live, asking someone to call the police because some people were digging up badgers for baiting, he had photos of them doing it, but he couldnt call the police himself as they knew he was a sab, and the local police chief was in the hunt
I think I understand the latter to be using dogs to drive grouse out of the undergrowth so the can be shot
Driven grouse shooting is where the shooters are in a line and then beaters + dogs drive the grouse over that line. Unlike walk up shooting (which can also use dogs) it relies on a very high population of grouse (up till the point they get blatted) in order to give the paying guests lots of things to shoot at. Since they cant be bred in captivity this results in pretty extreme measures to ensure normal infant mortality doesnt occur.
As such there is widespread killing of anything considered a threat to them whether thats mountain hares or raptors.
This is leaving aside the more general ecological damage caused by the muirburn in order to provide the best environment for excessive numbers.
@relapsed_mandalorian
The ones on the roads are generally pheasants and sometimes partridge (mostly pheasants since they are the most commonly released and do seem particularly ill adapted to roads).
The numbers of pheasants bred and released is insane. Somewhere between 35-55 million most likely which has a massive impact on the local ecosystems.
You guys should check the Quantocks staghounds as well - another bunch of psychopathic criminals killing deer for fun by chasing them to exhaustion with hounds. there is not even any pretense at utility here. If you want to cull deer its the young females that need tobe killed
a bit hyperbolic in tone but everything they claim is backed up
When I was a young un I got kicked on a Fox hunt because I refused to move my car on a private lane to let the hunt through. A actual riding boot to the head. The land owner hated the hunt and had banned them off his small holdings but they didn't care one jot.
We have a bigger issue with badger baits now they cage them up then let the dogs on them after few days in the cage, after the sport they get tossed on the road to look like road kill.
Fox hunting is on the decline definitely by me. I'm happy to say I know the local lord (an actual one not a Tory doner) no1 son and despite being old money and a huge land owner he is 100% against hunting and won't allow it. shooting is on the rise especially rabbit and hare despite becoming very scarce by me.
It's an emotional issue for me hunts can suck a ****
Oddly I've got friends who shoot pheasants we don't talk about it they also hate hunting with dogs.
More likely a hedge fund manager.<br /><br />
Got to have somewhere for the foxes to hide to make it more exciting for the townies on their hired horses…
Muffin man – point of order. Drag hunting uses aniseed for the dogs to follow – dogs are trained to follow that scent. No foxes get hurt.Trail hunting in theory uses fox urine to lay the scent and in fact is just a cover for killing foxes<br />Trail hunting in theory uses fox urine to lay the scent and in fact is just a cover for killing foxes<br />How so? Genuine question.
Do they then pick up live fix scent and off they go,? Or are they lead towards live foxes?
Read Arthur Ransom’s book ‘Swallowdale’. Drag hunting is described in the story, where the kids in the story suddenly have someone run through the little valley where they’re camping dragging a cloth on a rope, and they tell the kids not to worry, there will be a load of dogs running through following the scent. Bets are laid on the dogs because it’s a race.
Trail hunting is *allegedly* like fox hunting but the hounds follow a fox’s scent on a rag instead of a real animal.
What could possibly go wrong?
I hate animal cruelty, arguably more so than human cruelty. I don't care what anyone else eats, I have a mate who eats what he shoots himself and fair play to him. He was up in Scotland a couple of weeks ago bagging deer where they're considered a pest, stocked up the freezer for months. Does all the wetwork, beginning to end. It's not for me but I can't fault it.
So I wonder idly how many people here being outraged about animal welfare gave much thought as to what they had for tea tonight. Free range eggs and steak that has had a bit of a cuddle occasionally, presumably? Rather than hitting the Internet to make vegan jokes and laugh about Heinz launching "plant based" cream of tomato soup?
We all have our lines in the sand. It's funny how fast concern for the treatment of animals goes out of the window when there's a bacon butty at stake. I reckon there'd be a fairly paradigm shift in attitudes if the prerequisite to having a lamb kebab and chips was "here's a hammer and a knife, there's Flossie out in the field back there, off you go son."
the key for me is two things. Deliberate cruelty and utility with a side helping of ecological damage
Hunting with hounds is deliberately cruel as the prey animal is chased to exhaustion until it can run no longer then torn to pieces by the hounds. A fox cannot be eaten and the pest control argument does not stand up either as the hunts feed foxes to ensure a supply of prey and there are easier and less cruel ways to kill foxes
Deer hunting with hounds is deliberately cruel as well - and going for stags is not what needs to be done if you are culling for utility. Culled deer can be eaten but not the stags hunted by the staghounds I do not think
Deer stalking is not deliberately cruel and culling is needed on highland estates and the deer can be eaten. There is no obvious criminality with deer stalking but it does tend to lead to overpopulation which causes ecological damage because a shooting estate is valued at lea\st in part by the number of deer on the land and without culling the deer numbers grow and grow until the strip the hillsides of vegetation
Driven grouse moors are again not deliberately cruel and the grouse can be eaten - however its also associated with huge ecological damage and huge criminality
I reckon there’d be a fairly paradigm shift in attitudes if the prerequisite to having a lamb kebab and chips was “here’s a hammer and a knife, there’s Flossie out in the field back there, off you go son.”
I have done this with a cow - helped turn it from a beast walking about into hamburger. I fully understand meat is animals but I think you would be right - to most folk meat comes shrink wrapped from a supermarket shelf and any assi9ciation with animals is very distant
I know exactly where my hard line is, and it's around the 'killing without thought for the animal's suffering' bit also encompasses 'killing for no good reason/or enjoyment'
I don't have as much of an issue with the guy I know who regularly goes on pheasant shoots and sticks to his freezer. I find it unsettling that he derives enjoyment from, but it doesn't make vitriol spew forth from my keyboard. Yes I've had to euthanise my own animals. And I would pluck and eat them, but as I only do this when they are sick, I don't eat the meat.
I'm fully aware of the life what's on my plate has had, and my family are too. My approach is that it's my responsibility to consider that and be at peace with it if I want to eat it.
We all have our lines in the sand. It’s funny how fast concern for the treatment of animals goes out of the window when there’s a bacon butty at stake. I reckon there’d be a fairly paradigm shift in attitudes if the prerequisite to having a lamb kebab and chips was “here’s a hammer and a knife, there’s Flossie out in the field back there, off you go son.”
I have shot, prepared and eaten animals, not something I enjoy to be honest, and the actual shooting is for me the worst bit, but I can never understand this argument. We don't expect anyone watching telly to be able to make their own, leave it to people who know what they are doing.
Oh I think there is a good moral argument for " never kill what you are not prepared to eat, never eat what you are not prepared to kill"
I seem to remember that visits to abattoirs by children means many of them go vegetarian?
too many folk are divorced from the fact that meat = dead animals
More likely a hedge fund manager.
still makes it the unspeakable in full pursuit of the uneatable.
I have done this with a cow – helped turn it from a beast walking about into hamburger. I fully understand meat is animals but I think you would be right – to most folk meat comes shrink wrapped from a supermarket shelf and any assi9ciation with animals is very distant
Bang on.
I know exactly where my hard line is
...
‘killing for... enjoyment’
Apologies for the edit for clarity. But you've just described a steak. As a society we don't eat meat for survival. We do it because we enjoy it.
I don't take issue with that; but don't dress it up as something it isn't. They like charging round on horseback, you like a cheeky kebab on the way home from the pub. I doubt the mystery meat had much in the way of a cuddle before it was bled out.
Sand, lines, etc.
Never kill what you are not prepared to eat- certainly, never eat what you are not prepared to kill not so sure, I want someone to do it as well as possible and hope that an expert will make a far better job than me.
The vast bulk of the meat I eat is wild venison shot on the hill, I could do it but the guy that does is an expert and far more certain to do a good clean job. The farmed meat comes from a local farm and I am sure it has been as well treated as possible.
I don't mean every bit of meat you eat but I remain convinced that unless you are prepared to do it at least once then you should not eat meat
cougar - how do you feel about "free range" meat? Grouse for example
Veteran sab here. I can confirm that fox hunt participants and supporters are every bit as deranged and violent towards humans as they are foxes (and other wildlife). In all my life I've never encountered a bunch of entitled, psychopathic, odious f***wits as they are. I'm glad I have no contact with them these days, because seeing the underbelly of humanity on a weekly basis messes with your mind.