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...would you go?
This decision is something that me and my family are going to be taking in the not too distant future. Both myself and my wife have occupations which are paid much better in all of those places than they are in the UK, and all places would give us a much higher standard of living than we have here.
Where would you choose?
Te anau new zealand if your can get the job.
Canada!
Everywhere has its ups and downs. Tassie is good but a few years behind. Home brewing is also a good skill to have.
Just be aware the exchange rate will kill the 1st few months but after that all good. There are some oz and nz expos going on just Google it and go along. They sting you about a fiver but at least you will get an idea.
If you value friends and family visiting Canada is easier to get to I suppose .Downside would be climate .
I have 2 friends (who don't know each other) who went to NZ on holiday and never came back.
I've lost touch with one but the other absolutely loves living there - near the shores of Lake Taupo.
I think it'd have to be Canada for me.
Some friends of the family moved there about 20 years ago and they've loved it, even speaking to them now they think it's the best thing they ever did.
NZ - beautiful, no real economy to speak of. like the 1950's.
Aus - extraordinary lifestyle, unfortunately propped up by a faltering mining boom.
Canadia - dunno
Standard of living, climate, lifestyle, job prospects - all of those things are well covered by previous threads here, and even the odd documentary on telly.
But, and it is a big but, what you really need to be asking yourselves is whether you are willing to leave all your friends, family, and everything you have invested in your current life, and start all over again in a new country. Because that's the scale of the change you will be making.
Not saying you shouldn't do it - many have (including me) and have never looked back, but just don't underestimate the social & cultural dislocation for the sake of a "much higher standard of living".
I think you'll struggle to find someone with an objective view of all 3. I do know that my relatives in oz have averaged 1 trip back in 25 years 🙂
Assuming I could get the right job I would go to New Zealand in a heartbeat.
Despite having no experience of NZ or Aus, it would be Canada for me too. Go on, shag off. 😀
Canada for me. Sis lives in Alberta, has since 1982 & loves it. I'd be looking at BC most likely
Downside would be climate
climate in BC is pretty much like that in the western part of the British Isles. But as it's more mountainous, it can get snowy in the hills. What's not to like?
Downside for me would be what's likely to happen when the Cascadia fault decides to let rip
Downside for me would be [s]what's likely to happen when the Cascadia fault decides to let rip[/s] 300 million banjo plucking cousin ****ing rednecks living just across the border.
I think as mentioned CAnada just due to it being more accessible, closer to get into the STates for awesome trips. Oz has never ever appealed to me at all, NZ yes but so blinking far I couldn't be bothered 😉
I'd say that if you are motivated to make a go of it - and have a job to go to - definitely take the plunge. It will be hard work for the first year or two, you'll hate some of it, but it will never be boring.
I'm in Oz - don't be overly distracted by the attractive salaries. The cost of living is relatively high.
Surprisingly, I keep meeting west-coast Canadians that have emigrated here. They don't seem insane, which was my first thought, but all say that real estate in Vancouver is impossibly expensive and the city is full of homeless crack addicts. Who knew?
Loved Canada for the summer I was there but I wasn't really living a "normal" life. Vancouver would be nice (but expensive) to live in I reckon. Apart from all the homeless people.
Vancouver any day.
My list of the only cities Id raise children in: Vancouver, Bristol, Stockholm and Geneva.
Its mainly a list limited by prejudice and ignorance but Im happy with that 😉
NZ every time, Australia is a financial bomb about to go off. Canada is fine but brutal in the winter and BC is expensive.
Contrary to popular opinion NZ is not stuck in the 50's it is as happening as you want it to be. Auckland not the greatest city but it has plenty of plus points. Wellington is brilliant, south island is quiet but maybe that is what you are after. Christchurch is still coming to terms with the earthquake. If you want stunning scenery and open spaces south island is your place. The NZ economy isn't as dynamic as the either Canada or Australia.
If you are looking to raise a family then NZ cant be beaten.
A slightly longer reply than the first one.
Research is key
Cost of living varies hugely across a country also so so attitudes and progress. Some parts of Oz are ahead of the UK in many respects others feel like the 1930's.
Employment is up and down currently bad in Victoria/Tas good in places you have never heard of.
If your not related you will be looking at work sponsored visas - tie ins and repayment for leaving possibly - Read the contract. or getting a skilled visa and then finding work - you need to fork out for the move.
Education/Health work slightly differently. There are more private schools without the stigma that the UK has about them. Health is a balance of public/private which seems to work quite well.
From Oz I am thinking of needing at least 3 weeks probably 4 to make it worth a trip back to the UK. So the chances of frequent returns is slim.
[url= http://www.workingin-events.com/ ]Expo Events[/url]Not a bad way to talk to banks, movers, state governments etc in one place
Don't know if you have definitely made the decision to move or not, but good advice above about considering the impact on your existing relationships with friends and relatives, now and in the future.
I would go for whatever gives you the best quality of life in the long run, rather than best standard of living.
We're moving and progressing transfer/VISA through my wife's employer. Living in Scotland, it's a no brainer for me and looking forward to the move. I was never used to be a fan of Oz, but having spent time in both Canada and then Oz recently...to us as a family it really does offer the 'best quality of life in the long run.'
From my experience - which includes spending a number of years in western Canada - BC or Alberta would be top of my list.
Yes, BC is expensive in terms of taxes and it's a BIG province, so whilst Van is one of the major cities, there's plenty more land available. Okanagan in the centre for med type climate c/w rattlers and Kelowna is a biggish city. The Kootenays in the east of the province are my fave and would probably appeal if you are the more resourceful type.
Alberta continues to boom, although for me, the western side bordering the Rockies is the place to live; remember the film, Brokeback Mountain? - if that's what it was called?? It was filmed in Kananaskis and is quite frankly the most jaw droppingly beautiful place, although rather expensive as it's close to Calgary.
As for climate, IME kinda 3-season, winter, summer, autumn. But proper seasons and as they say, with the right clothing....
What a lovely choice to have, enjoy! 😀
Canada from those choices. Montréal or Québec. I keep meaning to take a holiday there but this year family events stopped me. If I were moving permanently Germany would be top of the list. It would take something fairly major going pear shaped in my life to uproot me from SW France though.
I can only speak for NZ and Oz as have lived in both extensively - I have been in NZ for 14 years now. It's not like the 1950s and there is an economy but what would I know. Nice place to live, lifestyle really is what you make it. It is not cheap though I warn you of that. Economy is good, we have been pretty well shielded from the gfc in many ways. There are of course downsides - long way from anywhere, it is seismically active and that worries me living in wgtn, it's a small country with attitudes to match. I enjoy a lifestyle that I am not sure could be matched elsewhere. Email me if you want specifics.
I looked at the same three options before I emigrated. I chose NZ as it offered what I wanted. Good access to countryside, Aus is forbidden unless permitted. NZ n Canada? is permitted unless forbidden. Climate in NZ is rideable year round, Canada isnt. Everything else being equal that decided it. It is hard at first being so far from family so if your are a close family, think real hard. Lots of info on emigration forums.
Research, research, research!
Canada - Kamloops or Kelowna. I Talked myself out of going on a 1 year young persons work visa and I still pretty much hate myself for it.
Repeat after me...
It's not where you live
it's how you live where you live...
You may be able to earn more, but how much will you have left at the end of the month?
Canada - great place but bloody cold for 9 months of the year
Oz - Sidney reminded me of Newcastle...
NZ - nice country, but no real economy
I've spent +20 years travelling the world (on business), and love home.
NZ.
The pies are best.
Oz pies are over-rated.
NZ.
The pies are best.
Oz pies are over-rated.
Homemade pie is available
most recently Wallaby & Stout
I'm going to nz for 18 months in a couple of months; I've just ordered a semi automatic shotgun so i can go shooting with a mate. how great is that?
Lived in NZ for 7.5 years
It's a lovely place to be, and you can make a lot of it if you wish/can. It ain't cheap when comparing what you get for your dollar.
We came back home for a number of reasons. Chief among them was the opportunities the kids would (not) have. There is a lot to offer there, but if it isn't there, you're scuppered. They all have to have the Big OE (Overseas Experience) to be considered complete people.
It is also extremely competative at all levels of life. We hated the question "Where are you then?" = What street do you live on? Is it posher than mine? I will/won't be a friend on that basis. Sad but true. 🙁
Try this too: Google Maps > Put NZ in the middle and zoom out all the way to space > What else to you see? Consider it, this has a very real effect on life there.
PS, I work with lots of Canadians. Generally great work mates, and I don't hear too many complaints about the place from them. Also none of them I know have ever felt/mentioned/wanted the need to live in another country.
And that with weather that wants to kill you for 8 months of the year!!??!
As a Canadian, I am not remotely objective about this, but [b]I strongly dispute those who suggest the climate in Canada is a downside.[/b]
I know that -25 degrees for weeks at a time may sound brutal, but the way you live your life changes in response.
Honestly, the winters teach you ways of living that only make you stronger, and - I think - good humoured. There is nothing to beat the invigoration of shoveling out after a snowstorm, or cross-country skiing through woods that only months before you were pedaling through. It gives you a totally different perspective on nature and on life.
1 Canada - BC around Kelowna/Okanagan
Friendliest people by far.
Fantastic scenery.
Great mountain biking and skiing.
Great wine (they don't export much).
2 New Zealand
Fantastic scenery.
Great mountain biking and skiing.
Chippy people.
3 Australia
Very expensive (particularly Perth).
Very hot and high UV risk (many folk don't venture out).
Not very friendly.
[s]3 Australia
Very expensive (particularly Perth).
Very hot and high UV risk (many folk don't venture out).
Not very friendly.[/s]
Massive generalisation
Cost of living comparable with UK in many areas
Climate Varies massively across the continent - spent most of the summer outside riding during the day and I'm close to ginger 🙂
Loads of very friendly people
Never met any chippy Kiwis, met a few that had a sense of humour loss about rugby but that happens in all forms of religion 😉
The winter thing is true I loved the winter in Finland but a few other non Finns just hated it and it really made them miserable.
I always thnk Australia is really foreign, odd people, odd animals, and pretty strange scenery.
Whereas living in New Zealand (south island) I found it was a lot like Scotland - big mountains, not many people. Not as much riding than scotland (no open access laws), and more driving to ride, but if you either surf or ski, there are probably better places in New Zealand for it.
Canada I've only visited briefly but bits I've been to (Vancouver and Nova Scotia) seemed okay. Any Canadians will hate me for saying this, but if you like the USA, it has so much in common that you'll probably like Canada. Obvious advantages (state healthcare system, much nicer cheese), but it does have a lot of the same stuff and a very similar feel. I do like most of the bit of the USA I've visited, so it is a nice place in my opinion, but it does make it quite different to the UK if that's a problem - way more than New Zealand in terms of culture. If you worry about people saying dude and thinking that their country is awesome, and prefer a self deprecating sense of humour, it isn't a place for you.
Personally i'd always go for Australia over New Zealand, as it'd be a real foreign experience. I'd move to a small town in Scotland before NZ - most of the same advantages and disadvantages, but a couple of hours away from big cities and less than a day away from other UK friends and family vs being on the other side of the world.
Like a lot of countries all 3 of those vary hugely depending upon where you go. Countries like Australia will encourage you to come if you have a bit of money and useful skills, however they want you to go and live places where Austrailans are leaving, like Perth for example. Sydney or Melbourne is where the better jobs are and it's very very hard as a foreigner to get to go there. I'd also not underestimate the cost of living there and also ensure you check out the pension arrangements.
Of the three you list I'd take Canada especially Vancouver. I'd do this as I love winter sports and because it's much closer to Europe. In my view its also a better balanced economy with excellent opportunities, good education and a welcoming culture. OZ and especially NZ are a long way for everywhere. I lived in Singapore and it was quicker to travel to ski in Europe than Queenstown.
@joemarshall - I'd disagree on the Canada/US similarity, IME Canadians are far nicer people and it's a much nicer society to be part of (I lived in NY for 3 years and worked and travelled in a lot of North America)
if we didnt have as much debt and put down as many roots as we have we'd be on the first plane to NZ, looks like it will be retirement now 😉
lived there for a year back in 2003, worked and lived with kiwi's but got about to see pretty much all the main places.
much more laid back life style than UK, far less populated think it hit 4million when i was there and from memory the two island together have a slightly bigger land mass than uk so that give you an idea.
i loved the fact you could drive out of a town/city within minutes you could be in the middle of knowhere.
the weather pretty much th esame as uk, but i guess winters can be more extreme in parts.
NZ does feel like it is stuck in time, hard to explain. but i loved it.
oh the beer is utter sh*te!
but the main point as said above, can you and your gang leave family, friends behind?
I am Australian and have lived in Canada and the UK and as much as I love Australia Canada beats us hands down for outdoor sports winter and summer (BC at least). So guessing as you are on a mtb forum take this into considiration as for your family well I think both countries are good places to raise kids. I would make sure you that you make the move that the wife wants in my exiperences happy wife happy life etc. If your intreseted in more questions email me.