[Closed] If an auto parking car crashes, whose fault is it?

[b]Who[/b] is in charge of the vehicle?

Do you really have to ask OP? Really?

The driver. You cannot abdicate responsibility by pushing a button.

Immigrants

Depends if it's a VW or not.

Thatcha(m)

The wife.

EU directives/red tape/unelected beurocrats and a free britain will end this sort of thing,

Thatcha(m)

Alarmingly tenuous, but I like what you did there nonetheless.

The cyclist?

Do you really have to ask OP? Really

No I don't. Just thought it was an interesting hypothetical.

Alarmingly tenuous, but I like what you did there nonetheless.

I'd say that was a stroke of genius, to be honest.

Why does anyone have to be to blame?

Ermmm! What hypothetical it's pretty bloody obvious.

OK. Let's set up an example.

You engage your Audi into auto park and it finds a suitable space in the car park at Llandegla.

As it's reversing in, Orange 5 on the roof, James Bay bleating from the Bluetoothed IPhone (strava ready and waiting), it bumps the next car. There was no indication this was going to happen from the system.

Audi need to answer some questions?

(For the record, I have a 12 year old focus and 10 year old golf. Auto park is not in my little driving world)

I blame the parents and a total lack of discipline in modern society.
After that I would be looking at the person in charge of the vehicle who could in turn take it up with the tin box manufacturer(their insurer would likely encorage this).

Is the driver blind?

As it's reversing in, Orange 5 on the roof, James Bay bleating from the Bluetoothed IPhone (strava ready and waiting), [s]it bumps the next car[/s][b]crushes a small child's face[/b]. There was no indication this was going to happen from the system.

That easier? Still no question driver is in charge of the car.

An Audi? Why the frickin bejeesus did you leave that nugget out you moron? Audi, definitely Audi. And BMW.

[quote=scotroutes ][b]Who [/b]is in charge of the vehicle?
Seriously, it doesn't get any simpler than that.

I've never reversed into anything in nearly 15 years of driving. Until I had my last car which had every parking gadget under the sun, bleepers, auto park etc.

Bumped it reversing 3 times, and the auto park kerbed the alloys countless times. Auto park was being used on 1 of the reverse bumps, an oddly shaped plant pot heavily angled at the top didn't get picked up by the sensors and I blindly assumed the big tree obviously behind me was actually nowhere near me cos it was just bleeping a bit. Obviously my fault.

Toys are great but they're dumbing down diving too much IMO.

😯

Edited.

have these things improved ?

the parents have this on their car 2012 model ...... it passes heaps of easily manageble spaces till it finds one big enough to park a double decker bus in......then says go....

the parents have this on their car 2012 model ...... it passes heaps of easily manageble spaces till it finds one big enough to park a double decker bus in......then says go....

My Merc will get into a parallel space only 50cm longer than the car. I still don't trust it mind. And it's far too slow.

The reverse sensors on my car switch off when the bike rack's plugged in.

I'm always paranoid about reversing with the rack on anyway and end up leaving at least 4ft behind the back of the rack but the sudden lack of beeping can be a bit disconcerting too.

Is all this happening in a parallel universe I know nothing about? Autopark FFS?

This recently went to court in the USA.
http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN0VJ00H

If there's a steering wheel then your the sriver, but if there isn't then the computer is legaly in charge. I guess the arguments will be that the computer if it kills someone will still do it less often than a human driver.

I drive an Astra coupe which has blind spots the size of the sun, and an arse bigger than the moon. My parking skills have abandoned me and TBH I've given up worrying. I can always find my car in the car park mind, it's the one that looks like it was parked by a child...

The last Labour government #jambafact

tbh i think alot of folks parking/mirror skills have abandoned them ... saw a guy on here yesterday saying rear parking sensors are essential on a t5 because you cant see whats behind it ...FFS its a tiny van with huge mirrors.

A woman had a go at me in the carpark at work last week. I reversed in next to her, I was going too fast and not looking - missed her crappy ford focus by inches, she said (I added the "crappy").

Silly cow - was using my mirrors and knew exactly how much room I had, and she was parked way too far over, and had gone in forwards. Admittedly, she was going to struggle to get back in the drivers door unless she lost about 30 kgs that day. Not my fault they don't make fatty spaces in the works car park.

I think that's called judging somebody by your own poor standards - is the round about point I am trying to make.

saw a guy on here yesterday saying rear parking sensors are essential on a t5 because you cant see whats behind it

I find reversing into spaces or parallel parking far easier in my van than a car due to the decent mirrors. I don't have to worry about auto parking yet, that's a few trade-ins away for me. Bring on manual air-con I say!

Boston dynamics! It is just the start of the revenge the machine will force humanity to suffer, for the humiliation dished out by Boston dynamics to their mechanised brothers.

Mark my words, no audi driving, orange 5 riding, trail centre mincer will be safe.

This auto park, auto drive stuff is only any use once I can be sat in the back with a gin, till then it's just another thing to go wrong.

I work pretty closely with the development of all of this new Tech (Advanced Driver Assitance Systems, or ADAS to give it it's blanket name), and although the OP's question might be easy to answer, it does lead onto the biggest issues that manufacturers currently have, where is the cross over between driver and car responsibility.

We are so close to having fully autonomous vehicles, the technology is there(ish) but it raises so many issues from a legislative/morality point of view (the car has to swerve to avoid an accident but has to choose between smashing into a wall or the local Sunday School, Nuns and all etc) that it is going to be a long long time before we see it on the roads, especially mixed used roads (shared roads between autonomous and manual cars).

For what it's worth, the latest generation of systems are pretty hot, much better than when they first appeared around 2011/12ish

This auto park, auto drive stuff is only any use once I can be sat in the back with a gin, till then it's just another thing to go wrong.

Whilst i agree, I can see the appeal on a hot summers day with kids in the car, trying to parallel park on the promenade with the 3 mile tail of traffic you've just sat through behind you getting impatient.

Can't wait for completely autonymous motorway driving through. B-roads might be a bit too stressful, but being able to sit back and read a book on the 5 hour drive form Teesside to Reading would make working away from home almost bearable.

[i]but being able to sit back and read a book on the 5 hour drive form Teesside to Reading[/i]

what they could do is have a special tractor unit that they attach a number of cars to so they don't all have their own internal combustion engines running all the time.

Then they could make the tractor unit electric and install overhead power lines for it.

And to make sure it all stayed on the road they could provide rails for it to run on.

and every so often have stops where people could join or leave the train of cars as needed.

and for those with no car they could have a coach or two in the line. Maybe with a trolley of refreshments and a toilet.

saw a guy on here yesterday saying rear parking sensors are essential on a t5 because you cant see whats behind it ...FFS its a tiny van with huge mirrors.

Have you actually tried to parallel park a T5 without parking sensors? There is one and a half metre blind spot at the back of the van. Sure yoú can keep going until you feel a thump but seeing as the bumpers are made of the softest plastic it's not particularly desirable.

My Merc will get into a parallel space only 50cm longer than the car

Still not matching the skill of the drivers in Paris then. Though I don't suppose car computers will nudge other cars along a bit either.

what they could do is have a special tractor unit that they attach a number of cars to so they don't all have their own internal combustion engines running all the time.

Then they could make the tractor unit electric and install overhead power lines for it.

And to make sure it all stayed on the road they could provide rails for it to run on.

and every so often have stops where people could join or leave the train of cars as needed.

and for those with no car they could have a coach or two in the line. Maybe with a trolley of refreshments and a toilet.

They already have that, it's called a train.

But I have to get out of the car/train every so often and get into another one.

The first car/train is about as nice as a bus from the 80's, except it's noisy, overcrowded and uncomfortable, and it's now 2016 so the seats are mostly broken.

The second car/train is the train equivalent of a Austin Montego. Nicer than the first, but still not as nice as say a bangernomic Daewoo Matiz. It is empty though as no one sensible works in Teesside and goes back to London for the weekend.

The third train is underground and great if you want to spend half an hour smelling another mans armpits, apparently if you get of in Soho you can do more of that but it costs more.

The fourth train is much nicer, but you have to share it with more people than there are seats, so like the Austin Montego analogy from earlier in the journey you end up sat on a bag bouncing around like you're off on a family holiday. Except his time you're sat next to a public toilet the whole time, and there's a stag party next to you.

And the coffee is instant.

And all that still cost 3x more than the petrol and a Nero coffee halfway.

And the coffee is instant.

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"Have you actually tried to parallel park a T5 without parking sensors? There is one and a half metre blind spot at the back of the van."

NOt a t5 - but a 7m long camper van , a LWB transit and LWB citroen dispatch - none of which have back windows and massive "blind spots" and none of that involves reversing till i go bump.

waswas - that was an entrant on the genius radio show years ago.... only your describing a train - the entry was a car transporter on the motorways you drove onto it and switched your car off and then just reversed off when you got to your destination..... obviously never going to work but that was the nature of the radio show 😀

Teesside to Reading

T5? Lol, try a 7.1m caravan on the arse end of a Mondeo. When its a trailer you're dealing with THEN you have blind spots, anything else is just poor use of the available mirrors.

Oh the driving gods on this forum. 🙄

BMW's give you a warning on screen, that the system accepts no responsibility for any accident and it is the drivers responsibility.

Colleague at work has it on a VW and he never uses it.

Have you actually tried to parallel park a T5 without parking sensors?

Vans did exist before parking sensors were invented.

im all for van driving tests.... just like trailers and trucks.

so many folk driving them cant use mirrors properly and dont understand where and how big a vans blind spot can be.

Well at least I've kept you lot busy

Toyota were ahead of the game.

My 2006 Prius has automatic parking. However you have to operate the brake to slow the car as it moves, so it only steers for you. Therefore you're still driving it, so you're responsible. If you go too fast it cancels.

Problem is though 'too fast' is still slower than you'd park yourself, which is a shame as this renders it next to useless for me given that a) I can park normally quite well and b) it has a reversing camera with guides on it anyway, which is very useful.

I imagine it'd be a godsend if you were mobility impaired though.

Have it on my ford and it works very well. I never use it as I can drive. 😐

Oh, and on mine you are in control of the accelerator so that is the answer op.

I'd use the Toyota one if it let you go quicker. It can get itself into a smaller space than I can.

My favourite bit of driver assisting tech is the front side facing cameras on my FIL's Jag XE. When you are at a junction with sod all visibility, like the hedge bound ones around the quiet bit of Hampshire where he lives, the only way to be able to see if there is anything coming is to creep slowly out until you've essentially pulled into the road anyway. Cameras on the very front of the car mean you only have to poke the front 6 inches of the car out and can see perfectly.
Mind you, he managed to reverse his last car, an XF, into my wife's Focus despite all the fancy radar and cameras so it's probably best for him to let the car do that too...

If in doubt simply claim that the car was possessed by an evil spirit, like in that documentary by Stephen King.

Don't need parking sensors on the Land Rover. I have a tow bar 🙂

Oh the driving gods on this forum.

No, not so much. Just bothered learning how to drive properly and not rely on bells and whistles that could fail at a moments notice. As said vans existed before all these things came about.

If you don't drive much, maybe because you commute on public transport and can ride from the door, then your parking skills can become rusty...

1. Your fault first - in driving seat and owner of the car etc.

2. Malfunction auto park - you sue the pants off those who sell the car to your - a dealer perhaps.

3. Then dealer who sold you the car sue the pants off who ever sold them the car ... the chain continues. 😯

That's what I was taught about law many years ago unless something has changed that should be the process.

Don't you lot have valets to park for you? Makes blame so much easier

[quote=villagekid ]We are so close to having fully autonomous vehicles, the technology is there(ish) but it raises so many issues from a legislative/morality point of view (the car has to swerve to avoid an accident but has to choose between smashing into a wall or the local Sunday School, Nuns and all etc) that it is going to be a long long time before we see it on the roads, especially mixed used roads (shared roads between autonomous and manual cars).

I'm not saying you're wrong, but that is quite clearly ridiculous. Because for every time it has to swerve into the nuns to avoid an wall there will be 100 times where it's not killed somebody by being a dozy idiot. The legislators demanding 100% safety rather than 99% safety (compared to the current 80% safety with humans in charge) have blood on their hands.

I'm not a driving god, and far from perfect, but reckon I concentrate more than most when driving. I'll welcome driverless cars not because I get to read a book instead of driving, but because when I'm cycling they won't endanger my life by passing too close.

If you don't drive much, maybe because you commute on public transport and can ride from the door, then your parking skills can become rusty...

I accept that, what I don't accept is that it's somehow the fault of the manufacturer that a panel van has crazy blind spots. If you're not capable of driving it safely then you shouldn't be relying on a fallible system to do it for you.

Besides, with rear windscreens akin to that of an AT-AT on most cars I'm surprised anyone has any trouble given the amount of side mirror use you need to get anything done (my Mondeo's is useful for checking there are no trees or teenagers behind and not much else).

Oh the driving gods on this forum.

"Have you actually tried to parallel park a T5 without parking sensors? There is one and a half metre blind spot at the back of the van."

(the car has to swerve to avoid an accident but has to choose between smashing into a wall or the local Sunday School, Nuns and all etc)

was scary reversing out of the parking spot, got out and walked round the van twice during the manoeuvre, I'm sure it gets easier with practice.

This is what I meant. I can actually get our van in extremely tight parking spaces (you need to in this city where people have to park literally bumper to bumper because of lack of space). You can't see the bonnet of the car behind when you are in the space which is where the parking sensors come in. I don't need to even turn my head round as I can do it all with the mirrors and sensor for the bits I can't see. Sure I could get out and look everytime to see how far back I can go but that would be a PITA and a deal breaker for a vehicle for me.