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I thought it was bad manners to do so. I've got no problems telling people if they ask me, but I'd want to know why (apart from the obvious reasons) someone would want to know apart from idle curiosity.
No. I know what they're all paid though.
i tell them rounded up to the next tenner, if they're getting more im on to the agent pronto. if less i basque in my smugness.
nowt worse tho than when you find out some total nugget is on more!
No, and the likely reason for asking is to use it in a pay (re)negotiation, and personally I don't want anything to do with a colleague's pay dispute with my company.
It's normally written into your contract that you are not allowed to discuss your wage with others.
It's normally written into your contract that you are not allowed to discuss your wage with others.
This is virtually unenforceable, particularly following the equality act 2010 - if someone is trying to establish if there is a case for an equal pay claim, then they are allowed to ask and people are able to tell them, no matter what the contract says.
I'm on a pay scale, so there is a limited number of amounts I could get paid, and I have a job role within that, so people pretty much know within a range what I'm on, and I have no qualms about telling them what point I'm on.
I tell people what pay band I'm on (NHS AfC banding) but not where on the scale I am.
Our pay bands are ridiculous, but you can tell which band everyone is on. So, for example, a lot of people are on between £24k and £100k!
What I don't get is, why do people who are obviously on more money than you asking what you get paid?
[i]i basque in my smugness. [/i]
Whilst they admire your choice of lingerie?
What I don't get is, why do people who are obviously on more money than you asking what you get paid?
Then you need to ask them why they want to know.
Keeping it all secret is far more in the favor of employers rather than employees. Basic divide and conquer, and it seems to work.
Working in northern Spain, huh?...if less i basque in my smugness.
We Brits do have an odd attitude to money, and are rather embarrassed by it. I think it's because it's so intrinsically tied up with our sense of social status and self-worth.
I suspect most people wouldn't reveal on here what they're paid.
[i]I suspect most people wouldn't reveal on here what they're paid. [/i]
I did wonder about that with even the front page poll on household income.
No I don't. People can get very funny if you earn more than them. I would have thought they're better off working harder or getting more skills or finding a new job if it bothers them, but being funny about it seems to be the preference 🙂
More seriously, I'm a contractor and people often misunderstand that what appears to be a high day rate doesn't necessarily translate into a massively higher standard of living e.g. it's harder to get a mortgage, you don't get paid holiday etc
But aren't you better off if you already have a mortgage and a good accountant?
Not a chance, I know what my lot get paid though, I set the rates.
Always been in this situation, me hiring and firing lark.
I suspect most people wouldn't reveal on here what they're paid.
Minimum wage.
Your turn? 😆
I suspect most people wouldn't reveal on here what they're paid.
£33,855
No, it never ends well for any party
The last company was shocked to find we all openly discussed our pay, even though we all earned between £16,000 to £18,000 so we're not talking massive differences
My current job I get paid less than £1 an hour, and work 4 hours a day, and it's still better than the previous
Whatever you're paid double it and watch the apoplexy set in whilst sipping your brew
bokonon - brave fellow
[i]My current job I get paid less than £1 an hour, and work 4 hours a day, and it's still better than the previous [/i]
perhaps we should be talking about income rather than pay?
No, it never ends well for any party
It ends well for the employer who can pay everyone as little as he can get away with, safe in the knowledge that they are too stupid to be open with each other about pay and conditions.
It's awkward... in my old job, it could be very messy because I spent 2 years being paid more than the people who were training me to do the job they could already do with their eyes closed.
Why would you care if you knew you were better off anyway?
Why would you care if you knew you were better off anyway?
How would you know? because your boss told you he has given you a special deal that no one else has and you should keep it secret? Did he manage to stifle his laughter as he told you?
AT my first job I managed to persuade all my peers to give me all their salaries / pay rise details and plotted them all out on a graph (being an Engineer). Anyway, turns out we were all on exactly the same line - pay was linear function of age. The pay rises all occurred at different times but we were all paid exactly the same for our age. Did seem quite a 'fair' scheme.....
I suspect most people wouldn't reveal on here what they're paid.
you're not wrong there 😉
I don't think the question has ever been asked TBH. Some people have tried in a round about way but I usually change the subject
[i]Keeping it all secret is far more in the favor of employers rather than employees. Basic divide and conquer, and it seems to work. [/i]
Exactly.
Currently, FWIW, as Ltd Co. contractor I bill £450 a day.
I suspect most people wouldn't reveal on here what they're paid.
£22,000
Better than a lot of people, but a lot worse than many it seems!
Can't say I've bothered to look at what I earn for quite a while 😳
i have the unenviable task of hiring and firing.
most of our men dont tell the truth about what they earn, normally adding £10-£20 a day on.
one day a guy said to me that he was unhappy that he was only earning a tenner a day more than this other guy, so i put the other guys money down a tenner and said due to the first bloke complaining, i had assessed his money and realised he was overpaid, he wasnt happy
It does seem to be a British thing when it comes to money.
I've been very surprised how open people are over here when it comes to wages and what they/you paid for your house etc.
One thing I will say is that there seems to be a lot wider wage ranges in the UK than in Sweden, which is maybe why people are more open about it.
£0.00
At a consultancy I worked at everyone's charge out rate was public, and it was pretty simple sums to go from charge rate to salary. No need to ask.
It ends well for the employer who can pay everyone as little as he can get away with, safe in the knowledge that they are too stupid to be open with each other about pay and conditions.
This^^
Funny - we once did a silly "team building" type game that was designed to show us that sharing information led to all the teams doing better, but in real situations, nobody does that.
Yes. But then, it is only a small team in a charity, and our pay is easy to find in the public records we put out.
im on contract with an hourly rate, there are different levels and different disciplines that earn different rates but the other guys at my level get the same. we are lucky to be in an industry where demand for personnel is high so companies outbid each other on the rates to get a workforce in for a project, its never about the companies paying as little as they can get away with, its about them paying more than their competitors. It also means if these lot here really want an individual on board but he's is demanding more than the current rate, we all get an increase to match! the downside is projects never run for more than about 3yrs give or take, but for me thats long enough. i get bored.
"Pay? I do it for the sense of satisfaction!"
Our company has bands. We all know what band we are. However, the salary ranges for the bands overlap hugely, and pepole's band doesn't reflect the job they actually do. Some of the most remarkably brilliant pepole are in fact on the junior bands. Bonkers it is.
One thing I will say is that there seems to be a lot wider wage ranges in the UK than in Sweden, which is maybe why people are more open about it.
Hardly surprising you've gone from one of the most unequal societies to one of the most equal in terms of wealth!
Yes, I will tell them if they want to know but sometimes I don't even know how much I earn as my contract changes every year. 😯
p/s: I work in a bureaucratic organisation and I don't even have a clue the pay scale I am on ... 😆
I'd tell them to stop being lazy and check the NHS pay scales.
Surely we are just one of the least equal WESTERN societies?
I hadn't appreciated at the time how varying the pay levels were in the UK, and consequently how grossly overpaid I was.
@MSP
I meant why does a guy senior to me who's definitely being paid more than I am care what I'm earning?
He's looking to see who the most likely person to sack is.
Again NHS so i tell them what band and pay point I'm on. Band 5 point 19. But i do alot of weekend lates and lates so get slightly more 🙂
Surely we are just one of the least equal WESTERN societies?
ok, fair point.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_income_equality
I'm surprised at how equal the US comes out in that. Higher than Sweden for instance.
I suspect most people wouldn't reveal on here what they're paid.
£17,250, gross.
.
Those of my colleagues who have asked I have told, those who haven't asked I haven't. On a you tell me yours and I'll tell you mine basis. I'm in admin so I see a lot of people's anyway.
I'm surprised at how equal the US comes out in that. Higher than Sweden for instance.
Same here, but there are so many different ways of measuring it.
I'd feel uncomfortable telling colleagues and friends but I would - knowledge is power, power is money and money is shiny bikes.
It's going to be especially useful if/when I come back to the UK for a bit and need to whore myself out (apparently being a kept man isn't an option any more) amongst the companies I used to hear from.
p.s. being paid in NZ$ is great. The number are bigger!
being paid in NZ$ is great. The number are bigger!
But ultimately not worth anything anywhere else 😉
I'm surprised at how equal the US comes out in that. Higher than Sweden for instance.
Not sure we are reading the same thing - which measurement brings out the USA above Sweden? I could only find ones where Sweden was more equal than the USA.
i and two of my colleagues were threatened with written warnings for discussing salaries..every little helps to keep staff happy
Did seem quite a 'fair' scheme.....
It's not fair - it's age discriminatory. If it were on the basis of experience, that might be fair[i]er[/i].
I'm surprised at how equal the US comes out in that. Higher than Sweden for instance.
I think you might be reading the scale the wrong way around - for example in the Gini coefficient the lower the number, the more equal. Sweden is 25, the US is 45.
This is virtually unenforceable, particularly following the equality act 2010 - if someone is trying to establish if there is a case for an equal pay claim, then they are allowed to ask and people are able to tell them, no matter what the contract says.
Do you have any more information on this statement?
To the OP as to why a senior person wants to know? They think your either very underpaid or very overpaid 🙂 They are also very overpaid if they didn't just think of calling HR.
Worked on bands when I was last in the UK, simple and effective but left no way to reward someone who was doing well.
Prior to that had contractor hourly rates, turns out after revealing mine I was being paid more than my boss, they just paid people what they could negotiate on entry and never looked at it again!
I dont get why people are so uptight about it.
My job has a publicly available pay scale. I'm on P3, which is £36,642 gross. That's about £2000 net per month.
Simply say for what I do.. Clearly not enough !
I cant understand why people are so guarded about it. Its very easy to guess the rough value of what some one is paid.
Would I tell? Depends on why they say they're asking.
I remember the leader of a training course I was on asking whether people at our place knew what each other were paid. As a former blue chip HR exec he expressed surprise that we did not. He considered it bad form not to know as it stopped people asking 'why [i]are[/i] they paid more than me?'. And that can apparently affect your desire to learn and improve. He was surprised when we expressed our belief that revealing your pay might be a disciplinary matter.
In England there seem to be a number of factors that affect how readily folks share the value of their pay: occupation, employer, class, origin, location...
Its very easy to guess the rough value of what some one is paid.
It might be in some places. Where I am, our grades have only a minimum value for base pay, with no upper limit. Additional benefits (pension contributions, car allowance, etc) vary according to a number of factors. The factors that affect base salary and benefits are sometimes not obvious.
My salary will be £10k this year. But thats because I'm a contractor 😉
I just look at the latest daily mail figures, double it, then tell my butler to Brag about the incomprehensible number to the gentry at the local club.
Or so the press would have you believe...
DrP
I suspect most people wouldn't reveal on here what they're paid.
£32.5k, still not sure how I got to this position (considering I work in a "creative" role) but I'm really not complaining, just consider myself very lucky!
Do you have any more information on this statement?
Section 77 of the act literally says these clauses are "unenforceable if…"
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/section/77
Always. People seem to assume I'm paid a lot more than I am.
He's looking to see who the most likely person to sack is.
I've already handed my notice in!
To the OP as to why a senior person wants to know? They think your either very underpaid or very overpaid They are also very overpaid if they didn't just think of calling HR.
I know I'm underpaid, that's part of why I'm leaving! I started here as a very junior person (lowest of the low) and worked my way up. He wanted to know what I'm currently paid, and where I'm leaving to is paying me.
We work in an industry where you can see what market rate is by simply going on a job site. Industry standard qualifications mean you can quite easily assess your worth. He knows what qualifications I've got because he mentored me for a while.
No I will never tell or ask. Opens up a can of worms. If you are contractors its different as you could be gone by the end of the week anyway.
When people find out, they might say nothing much to you but believe me they are saying to others 'cant believe hes on more than me'. Sometimes they go straight upto their boss. A big fuss is kicked up and they get an increase. You wont know this unless you are called in to explain why you told them (often they'll let it slide but they'll mark your card).
Most people seem to assume that they are paid more than their colleagues, but have no information to base that assumption on.
Must have been to the Gove school of statistical analysis.
anyone asks at my place - i just give them my basic - that shuts them up enough..usually followed with you do that - for that only that much......
dont tell them about the bonus' (im not a city banker ;))
I was surprised to learn in my last job I was on £2,000 pa more than my senior and was offered another £2,000pa not to leave. I still can't work that out. Currently being interviewed for a few more 'career' jobs while in the meantime I'm stacking shelves for minimum wage 🙂
I dont get why people are so uptight about it.
Because it can and would cause a lot of resentment.
In the private sector (SME rather than large corps) there are often huge disparities in pay rates as peoples all get to a role / level via different routes, so you can do the same job as someone else yet be on 50% to 150% of their salary.
I've had to deal with this no end of times, but the way pay reviews work, with a fixed % pay uplift pool for a given group, it's very hard to make a big change to one person without using up all the pot, so it can takes years to slowly iron out pay anomalies.
anyone asks at my place - i just give them my basic - that shuts them up enough..usually followed with you do that - for that only that much......dont tell them about the bonus' (im not a city banker ;))
Your basic in oil is way more than my top line.
As for a bonus what is that?
so it can takes years to slowly iron out pay anomalies.
By "slowly", do you mean "never"? I have seen guys with aptitude improve at a mercurial rate. Especially in technical disciplines. Their pay never catches up unless they move jobs.
By "slowly", do you mean "never"?
Not always but it might take 5 years or more, the higher the pay the harder it is to adjust. Giving a graduate starter a 25% or 50% pay rise is relatively cheap. When you have senior engineers on over 6 figures, it gets a bit more tricky.....
bruneep - you a crew manager or a watch manager ?
youll be surprised how close we are on basics if either is correct.
Footflaps, that's all benefits to the employer to keeping pay secret, what's in it for the employees?