[Closed] iDave diet, who done it?

So, any news or evidence as to why we can forgo eating fruit? Any proof as to why eating 'extra' vegetables makes up for that?

Had a chat with a nutritionist coach (old friend) yesterday who pretty much knows her stuff and she categorically disagrees with avoiding fruit. To her it's about a sensible balance (diet and exercise) - and eating fruit only once a week is just plain bad.

EDIT: I've used Dave's diet from time to time since he first mentioned it last year, so I have no issue with the bulk of what's happening. It just seems weird that people have a go at things like the High Protein/Low Carb diet because it says "avoid fruit" yet people here seem to be bowing down ...

How much fruit did we used to eat out of season before we had it flown in from Kenya, or in cold storage etc?

IMO your friend is sincerely wrong.

And what exactly is a 'nutritionist coach'?

EDIT - this [b]isn't[/b] low carb though, maybe that's why there is so much bowing down - usually from people who have had success with it.

IF you want an effective way of losing weight then just do this diet, its been explained why you shouldnt eat fruit.

Fruit is good for you since it contains nutrients and tastes nice, but it probably doesnt help with weight loss. I dont really care so I eat as much fruit as I want.

How much fruit did we used to eat out of season before we had it flown in from Kenya, or in cold storage etc?

None, but we used to eat loads during summer. And we used to have an average lifespan of about 35 years, partly down to diet? It would be interesting to compare that with people from climates with more regular fruit etc from many a moon ago.

How long does this diet take to take effect? I've been on it for 2 weeks now and seen an increase in weight of 2 lbs? Though I do admit I had have had a sneaky glass of milk once.

'average' lifespans were skewed by infant mortality. people didn't just croak at 35 if they survived childhood.

To her it's about a sensible balance (diet and exercise)

Eating healthily and not being fat is indeed about balance and exercise.

I'm not on this diet because I was a bloated couch potato. I'm on it because I needed to shift a few stubborn kg to become more competitive on a bike. I have learned that what I was eating although ostensibly healthy, was creating conditions within body that were not conducive to shifting those last few kg. And I was already an athlete (of sorts) and hence doing as much exercise as I could fit into my life.

I suspect your nutritionist friend is not coming from the same angle as a specialist cycling coach.

I've been on it for 2 weeks now and seen an increase in weight of 2 lbs?

something's up there. I lost 4lbs or so in the first week, and most people lose much more. Post a list of what you've eaten perhaps?

specialist cycling coach

This is nothing to do with cycling though. My work isn't just with cyclists. It's about a way of eating that leads to fat loss and then self-regulation of ideal body composition.

I just have never heard the term 'nutrition coach'. Is she a nutritionalist, dietitian???

Also davidtayforth makes more sense about diet and fitness than most on here. Consistently. My guess is he's as active as **** and lean as a butchers knife, and for him eating fruit is not going to pile pounds on. But as he said, if you're aiming to shift fat, it doesn't help at all.

How much fruit did we used to eat out of season before we had it flown in from Kenya, or in cold storage etc?

Not exactly scientific or proof of any kind. Plus I've yet to find anything on the interweb that substantiates why it's pointless/unnecessary for us to eat fruit. Sure, there may be a load of spin out there - in which case, where's the evidence to prove otherwise?

IMO your friend is sincerely wrong

That's your opinion. She's always been a very fit, healthy person (now late 30s). Eats, drinks and exercises sensibly. Would piss on many people here when it comes to running, rock climbing and gym stuff.

IF you want an effective way of losing weight then just do this diet, its been explained why you shouldnt eat fruit.

My understanding (maybe I'm wrong) is that this is not a 'quick fix' diet, but a long-term change of eating habits. Ergo, fruit only once per week ...

I suspect your nutritionist friend is not coming from the same angle as a specialist cycling coach.

True, she's not a cyclist (not a keen one anyway). But she's in bloody good shape and looks after herself.

IMO some people's bodies just behave differently. I know people who can eat/drink and do what they want, yet they still keep in shape with minimal training etc. And I know other people who put on the pounds and/or can't even run a mile without blowing, and that's when they're being sensible with their intake and doing some gym work etc.

I can see opportunities here.

Hey Dave,

Back on topic... did you see my post re breakfasts post target? Is it the cereal, or the milk that's the main issue? I understand milk causes spikes in insulin, so is there something else (other than water) that I could take with cereal to help, albeit recognising it's not part of the iDave plan?

Cheers,
Nick

Also davidtayforth makes more sense about diet and fitness than most on here. Consistently. My guess is he's as active as **** and lean as a butchers knife, and for him eating fruit is not going to pile pounds on. But as he said, if you're aiming to shift fat, it doesn't help at all.

I try my best!

I do do a fair bit of cycling (112miles to do on sunday for example) and I dont need to lose weight so I can eat fruit and cereal and all that as I guess it all just gets burnt off during the exercise. Butterbean mash is a now a staple part of my diet though!

My understanding (maybe I'm wrong) is that this is not a 'quick fix' diet, but a long-term change of eating habits. Ergo, fruit only once per week ...

If you want it to be then yeh. If you dont eat fruit I cant see why it would be a bad thing, what about eskimo's/inuit's? I wonder how much fresh fruit and veg they eat?

something's up there. I lost 4lbs or so in the first week, and most people lose much more. Post a list of what you've eaten perhaps?

I don't have one to be honest, I just didn't re-stock on anything that wasn't allowed and have since toddled along just eating whatever came to hand in the house that was then, by definition, meant to be OK. Maybe I over-did the "eat what you like" days.

'average' lifespans were skewed by infant mortality. people didn't just croak at 35 if they survived childhood.

Very true, modal lifespan would have made a better measure.

So on Monday, I'm going back on this after having April off. My weight is 145kg. So we shall see how it goes.

Plus I've yet to find anything on the interweb that substantiates why it's pointless/unnecessary for us to eat fruit

Have you found anything that says it's essential?

Your friend sounds great. There are lots of healthy fit people who eat fruit. Fruit is good for you.

None of this is the issue though. As you admitted yourself it's perfectly possible for someone to eat well and exercise lots and still be a bit heavier than they would like. Which is why I am on iDave. I did the suggested reading and understand a little bit more about what's going on inside my body and how to manage that the way I want.

Is peanut butter allowed?

DD - only if it has no sugar I suppose.

Started on Monday, today is my cheat day 😀 and already 1.5kg off. I'm chuffed to bits as no exercise either due to injury.

DD - yeah it's allowed and as for Almond butter... hmmmmm

MO some people's bodies just behave differently. I know people who can eat/drink and do what they want, yet they still keep in shape with minimal training etc. And I know other people who put on the pounds and/or can't even run a mile without blowing, and that's when they're being sensible with their intake and doing some gym work etc.

I think you are right, the people who this diet will aid in weight loss are the biffers that normal "healthy" diets don't seem to work for

as one of those biffers it seems to work for me

if you are already lean and healthy you don't need to do it

I think that really it answers the question of WHY biffers or semi-biffers find it hard to lose weight despite exercise. I never heard the question of insulin discussed in any of the healthy eating stuff. In fact, the traditional advice was to eat plenty of carbs for doing sports. Including advice I was paying a cycling coach for too 🙁

Almond butter... hmmmmm

😯

I gots to know - where from ?

Big day tomorrow. If no difference on the weigh in, that'll be a month with no weight change after 7 pounds in the first two weeks.

I'm looking to see if I can break 85kg by the end of the weekend. If not, I'm going to be really strict next week. If THAT doesn't work, it's back to the drawing board.

Don't be strict, be relaxed, take it as it comes - softly softly catchy monkey.

Fruit is good for you. Why? Because it has good things in it. These good things aren't exclusive to fruit. So if you exclude fruit, but eat other things with the good stuff, but which doesn't cause an insulin spike, then there is no harm done. As has been said previously, eat lots of veg, because they have lots of good stuff in them too. Hopefully this is all the scientific double blind tested evidence required by anybody. 😉

Had a dal curry tonight with green lentils and turkey breasts, was very nice indeed. Also made some chickpea (gram) flour flatbreads to go with, really nice meal altogether, didn't feel diet like at all.

For those interested:
[url= http://www.dietfreedom.co.uk/recipes/gram-flour-flatbreads ]Flatbread Recipe[/url]
[url= http://maninas.wordpress.com/2009/03/14/punjabi-green-lentil-dhal-incredibly-easy-and-incredibly-tasty/ ]Green Lentil Dal Recipe[/url]

how much of the flat bread can you have? thinking a couple of them with scrambled eggs would be a great breckie

Just chickpea flour and water and salt, so I don't think there is a restriction on it. Willing to be corrected though. You end up making a batter, so they turn out like pancakes, but without the egg they're a bit drier and more 'floury'. Still nice, and with eggs would be good. Apparently they keep in the fridge for a day or two also.

Don't be strict, be relaxed, take it as it comes - softly softly catchy monkey.

That's what I've been doing so far in fact.. feeling good lately. Only a bit knackered on today's commute.

Also made some chickpea (gram) flour flatbreads

I made chickpea pancakes when I got in from work, they're kickin' .......

[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/food/recipes/chickpeaflourpancake_5094 ]Chickpea Flour Pancakes[/url]

I had rabbit & lentil stew with parsnip chips, asparagus & broccolli for my main course though 🙂

I'm going to cannibalise this recipe to make gram flour (cheeseless) pizza & garlic bread tomorrow....

[url= http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:JR6kraRDu2EJ:www.slimtone.com.au/pdf/print_%2520friendly_pages/recipes_socca_bread.pdf+gram+flour+bread&hl=en&gl=uk&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESjRZXuN0tlGFiv6g9y8Etx595OA4EsiFwGHa0iSUjjmcEWvi6o6d2D7Na4hwpGRjW8ddSJU2sCpGWR3UiVSGO99QNEq0oIOzrvh-SmS4ElWbgzCDqNodCwxyHAKWvFS6oeg0DYn&sig=AHIEtbTkrWrSyWmi_iJqdzw8jE1WsbG5Hg ]Chickpea Flour Recipe With Pizza Potential[/url]

This one looks good also. Might do it midweek...

[url= http://www.justhungry.com/zucchini-and-chickpea-pancakes ]Courgette Chickpea Pancakes[/url]

2lb loss this week, faith restored.

think i might be overdoing the nightly tinto. this week i'm going to moderate that to one pub measure a night rather than a couple of 'glasses' and see if there's a dramatic difference.

upped the water intake too this week to around 6/7 pints during daytime, that may have helped.

anywhere for recipes for this??

[url= http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/meal-ideas-on-idave-diet ]iDave Recipe Thread 1[/url]
[url= http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/idaves-diet-plan-members ]Another[/url]
[url= http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/what-to-do-with-beans-on-this-stwidave-plan ]More[/url]
[url= https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0Bw_T87IBJ5crZTE0YmU1OTMtOGM0Yy00MTk5LTk1OGUtMjY5NzY1NDk4YWNi&hl=en_GB&authkey=CNeXx-wG&pli=1 ]iDave guide - with rough idea of meals[/url]
[url= http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/idave-diet-recipe-database ]Another thread[/url]

These are all the threads I know of with recipes so far. A lot of it is experimentation and trying new things, so look for ideas and adapt them with things that you like, particular beans/veg/fish etc.

Also, just look up recipes and omit the white carbs! Spaghetti bolognese you're going to struggle with, but a curry on rice becomes a curry with cabbage or with gram flour flat breads, or a medley of veg, or lentils, or quinoa. In other meals pasta/potatoes can be replaced with bean salads or anything from above to give you something filling alongside your meaty thing (if your a meat and 3 veg and stodgy carbs kinda person). Most meals you can take something from and with small modifications have an iMeal.

Is tzatziki allowed?

Spaghetti bolognese you're going to struggle with,

Chickpeas are close-ish to pasta, or just have it with broccoli peas and green beans 🙂

At work I usually just have the canteen meat with a big plate of veg - they do it rather well there, no idea how though. I honestly don't miss the spuds.

Is tzatziki allowed?

Dunno, never met the girl

cauliflower 'rice' is ace. grated cauliflower head, fried with some finely chopped onion. broccoli works the same way.

Isn't cauliflower super nutritious? I really don't eat enough of it.

Cauliflower rice with tzatziki. Mmmm. I hope tzatziki is allowed 🙂

Think I'm just not made of the same stuff as you lot, this is odd.

It is. Keep a food diary for one week.. I'm interested.

Btw, 84.5kg for me this morning - get in! That's basically what I weighed the first season I trained when I was training for 24 hour solo. I should be easily on course for a new PB at Cwmcarn when I get home in August.

Next stop 82.8kg which is my all time post 2002 record for one day only, and is just about 13st.

Chapeau!

I'll be up for racing you round Cwm Carn 🙂

Great 🙂 August onwards, sprogs notwithstanding.

STW lap challenge™ ?

Interesting... do we all have to be ridiculously overbiked and wear body armour?

I will most definitely be turning up in a VAG group vehicle.

Will there be a Cotton T-shirt category?

Re' the VAG group vehicle, DeadlyD, any more cash for me? I need a Bentley.

Yes Darcy I believe there will.

There will be time penalties for not posting on here at least every 5 mins from your iPhone whilst riding too. Riders hitiing 0.8 posts per minute will get time credits.

I've heard rumours that your camelbak must be of a certain minimum weight. Whether or not this weight is proportionate to rider weight has yet to be confirmed.

Re' the VAG group vehicle, DeadlyD, any more cash for me? I need a Bentley.

Yes dude. Email me that offshore account number...a lot of dieters have been falling of the wagon since the weather improved. I think it's all those white burger buns that have been consumed. Hence, the direct debits have increased dramatically this month.

Did you not fancy holding out for a Veyron?

I will also be in a VAG group vehicle, and a grey one at that.

I do not own body armour, but I do wear a camelbak and ride an Orange 5 🙂

By an interesting* coincidence my 5 is exactly the same colour as my car, despite buying both off the shop floor so to speak, with no colour choice.

* or not

Hmm. I was sat at the dining room table this morning with no shirt on, eating breakfast and Mrs Grips came in. She said 'Oh my God you're so sexy!' and gave me a big hug.

😆

I just did a little bit of sick in my mouth.

Just wait til you see the after pics.

I spat it out. All helps with the diet.

I had a bowl of cereal this morning tho. I'm doomed. Although I was closer to 84kg shortly before 🙂

That gram flour flat bread is ace. Plus I used gram flour to make some onion bajis! mint. When's the 'after' photo then MG?

Still trying to find gram flour here. Must look harder.

The after photo will come when I'm satisfied there's enough difference 🙂 Maybe when I get to 83kg, as that's a landmark.

try turkish/asian supermarkets?

Not many of those in the burbs. Next time we venture into the mayhem that is central Munich I'll have another look 🙂

[img] [/img]

This is from sainsburys, and is available in 1kg bags too. They also have quinoa which we bought yesterday, but haven't tried yet, took 3 customer services people to find it for us!

Edit: are you in Germany? Just remembered you saying something about it. In which case go to Das Sainsburysgevert.

Yes, it's widely available in the UK with its large Asian population, thanks for that tip 🙂

Yes Germany. Naff all Indian available here. In fact not much of much. It's like the 1970s in many ways.

Got a large bag of that very stuff yesterday. My wife's flat breads and onion bhajis filled a large hole 😀

I've been resisting for months - but have realised that being heavy and active in old age are mutually incompatible so having found a bag of gram flour and a box of flour-free falafel mix (yes, I usually make it from broad beans, but what the hey?) in the ethnic aisle in Tesco I've been giving it a go this week. But I can't do 6 days a week, so we'll have to see if a Mon-Fri slackerDave one works.

I still can't figure out if Tomatoes are allowed, and if I can put lemon or lime juice in my ceviche and houmous.

BigJohn, will reply to your email later, I have a cunning plan....

Are stuffed olives allowed?

As long as they're stuffed with dust.

Mr grips you can make your own gram flour using oven roasted chickpeas and a mortar n pestle once they've cooled.

Seeing as I'm fairly close to the Idave diet anyway I'm going to come play as I meed to get my fat tumkin under control

No, stuffed with piemento chillis.

You're the only one full of dust around here Yeti. Hot, shitty dust.

Hell yes to stuffed olives - see deadly, it's not so bad in MiWorld...

Pah, iResent that statement Darcy, I'm full of the finest A-grade bullshite I'll have you know!

That and the chickpea, lentil and chorizio stew I ate for lunch.

Yay.

*opens stuffed Olives packet*

I had coffee and walnut cake for lunch...is this why my belly is bruised from my thighs hitting it when I'm on the drops?

BigJohn, will reply to your email later, I have a cunning plan....

Well well well, and there's me thinking I was just being a weak-willed half-hearted dipstick.

Too late anyway, I've already marinated the salmon & tuna in lime juice.

(except dipsticks are skinny)

Don't get too excited...

Why not - it's going to be the best salmon and tuna salad [b]EVER[/b]

Mr grips you can make your own gram flour using oven roasted chickpeas and a mortar n pestle once they've cooled

That doesn't sound like much work at all!

Re lime juice, I sprinkled a few drops on my white chilli to make it taste of something...

iDave - Member
That gram flour flat bread is ace.

Throw a desert spoon of onion seeds into that mix - ace +1.

one week in here, 4lb down. Taking it steady when I'm training, but I haven't seen 11st8 in a long while...

just answered my own question 🙂

Green, yes. Red, no. Orange - only if to stop would cause an accident 😀

Just thought, in the world food section (near all the spices and where gram flour is) they do chickpeas coated in chilli powder, as a sort of crisps type thing. Quite spicy but very nice indeed if you find you want something snacky.